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DACA, immigration reform whatever

hayden_horn

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mchookem
mchookem

bitching about immigrants not paying income tax while simultaneously bragging about paying immigrants with cash so they can avoid paying income tax. i did not have that on my bingo card.  

TSipper
TSipper

We owe this girl and her family nothing. I do not care if they are fleeing violence, that is not the responsibility of this country. 7 billion people on this planet, is it our job to take all of them

Chrispy
Chrispy

Spin it however you wish, this man forced his daughter into the river, not our policies. 

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

Posted
Posted

I'm just waiting for someone to give me a good reason for separating these babies and children from their parents.

I'm not even saying turn them loose - if you want to keep them detained until an asylum hearing can be held, fine.  But what's the reason for going from keeping families together in family detention centers and separating children from their parents?

All immigrants are still detained but what is gained from this practice?  And call me cray, but I'm sure this shitty policy costs a ton more, too.  They have to add additional facilities that are basically giant daycares and now they have to hire staff to do the jobs - feeding, bathing, clothing, diaper changing etc. - that a mother or father would do if the families were kept together.

So except for costing more money and psychologically damaging thousands of children, what does this evil accomplish?

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Texas73

Texas73 420

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, HtownHorn said:

Which Obama part is bullshit? That pictures don't exist from his tenure as president with kids in cages? Look, this situation sucks 100%. Hopefully there can be compromise to fix the situation promptly. I hold out little hope there will be.

Obama put kids in detention centers who came without parents. That is not the same as separating kids from their parents.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89348

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

So except for costing more money and psychologically damaging thousands of children, what does this evil accomplish?

It creates thousands or tens of thousands of people who absolutely loathe the US.  

It undermines the moral authority we like to claim on the world stage  

That kind of stuff always ends well, right?

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XR4ticlone

XR4ticlone 122

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Nobody's asking for unchecked immigration dumbfuck. Next strawman please.

I've yet the only thing I hear from the left is Sanctuary Cities, Amnesty, & we need to help these people out. 

No one on the left is talking about limitations...no one is pushing for border enforcement or a wall.  They may talk about more legal immigration, but even then no one is saying we need to control our border. 

You call me a dumbfuck and say that my argument a stawman...but that's 100% bull shit.  The vast majority of the left isn't for any type of control on immigration. 

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XR4ticlone

XR4ticlone 122

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

I'm just waiting for someone to give me a good reason for separating these babies and children from their parents.

I'm not even saying turn them loose - if you want to keep them detained until an asylum hearing can be held, fine.  But what's the reason for going from keeping families together in family detention centers and separating children from their parents?

All immigrants are still detained but what is gained from this practice?  And call me cray, but I'm sure this shitty policy costs a ton more, too.  They have to add additional facilities that are basically giant daycares and now they have to hire staff to do the jobs - feeding, bathing, clothing, diaper changing etc. - that a mother or father would do if the families were kept together.

So except for costing more money and psychologically damaging thousands of children, what does this evil accomplish? 

I agree...quit wasting time and money.  Ship them home.  Do not pass Go...Do not collect $200. 

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XR4ticlone

XR4ticlone 122

Posted
Posted
Just now, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

This isn't what about I like. My inner 3 year old would like to throw Trump into jail without a trial. Something fucked up happened to you.

These are not US citizens.  They have no rights to a trial.  They have broken our law.  Send them home as great big, happy families. 

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blackmarketbaby

blackmarketbaby 118

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:
13 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:
Do you like wasting money when most of these trials end up in deportations anyway?

This isn't what about I like. My inner 3 year old would like to throw Trump into jail without a trial. Something fucked up happened to you.

Your silvery spoon sowed the enamel

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Captainant

Captainant 27273

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, XR4ticlone said:

These are not US citizens.  They have no rights to a trial.  They have broken our law.  Send them home as great big, happy families. 

What in the fuck are you talking about? Everyone has the right to a trial. Just because you weren't born here doesn't mean that you're subhuman, despite what you may think. 

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14443

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:
27 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:
Do you like wasting money when most of these trials end up in deportations anyway?

This isn't what about I like. My inner 3 year old would like to throw Trump into jail without a trial. Something fucked up happened to you.

Go it, you are not a rule of law type of guy. Makes sense.

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14443

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, XR4ticlone said:

Brandon Darby‏  @brandondarb   6h6 hours ago

Breaking: US Journalists Decide They Care About What Migrants Experience at Border After Years of Not Giving a Shit

 

I think this sums it up nicely.  

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Pretty much, which aligns with most of the postings on this thread by the libs.

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14443

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

It creates thousands or tens of thousands of people who absolutely loathe the US.  

It undermines the moral authority we like to claim on the world stage  

That kind of stuff always ends well, right?

They don't like us anyway and never will.

Yet we are still the most generous nation in the world, and since when does the left give a shit about morals.

Hardly ever.

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XR4ticlone

XR4ticlone 122

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Captainant said:

What in the fuck are you talking about? Everyone has the right to a trial. Just because you weren't born here doesn't mean that you're subhuman, despite what you may think.  

Ok...fine.

We caught you at our border.  Are you a US citizen?

No.

I sentence you to return with your family to your country of origin.  Next case.

 

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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6654

Posted
Posted

So much for tourism. 

12 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

They don't like us anyway and never will.

Yet we are still the most generous nation in the world, and since when does the left give a shit about morals.

Hardly ever.

Bwahahaha, yes all these people desperately trying to get here just fucking HATE America.

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RandomIdoit

RandomIdoit 655

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, XR4ticlone said:

Ok...fine.

We caught you at our border.  Are you a US citizen?

No.

I sentence you to return with your family to your country of origin.  Next case.

 

You forgot the part where they allow them roam around the United States for years until their court date.  

Edited by RandomIdoit
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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28700

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

Please try and stay on topic and tell the class why you're okay with Kiddie Koncentration Kamps.

Because Trump wants it. Therefore it's good. QED. 

That's the extent of the calculation. They begin with the conclusion that it's good and then seek to defend it.

Because previous administrations weren't perfect, that excuses this willful and intentional monstrosity. Never mind that this inhumane treatment is unprecedented. If there has ever been a case when immigrant children should be separated, that now justifies the separation of all of them in every case. What we used to define as legal asylum seeking is now considered illegal and we'll treat them all as criminals. And be as despicable as possible while we're at it. 

Trump says he doesn't like it and acts like his hands are tied. He doesn't want to do it but the law forces him to. When has that ever described anything he's ever done in his entire life? And what's the statute? And who's stopping him from changing it? What bill have the evil Democrats blocked? Why weren't Obama's hands tied in the same way?

The evil is so transparent. You can't expect the defenders to respond to reason. You can't reason a person out of a position they weren't reasoned into. 

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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6654

Posted
Posted
Just now, Celery Man said:

The actual funny thing is that this is not a left/right issue and a lot of people in the center are appalled at what we are becoming. Wait that’s not actually funny.

Yeah. It's not at all, but dipshit window lickers like htownaggy really really want it to be.

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XR4ticlone

XR4ticlone 122

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

You are a stupid, stupid person if you actually believe this.

I think it's clear there is no way to hold them that makes sense (financially or otherwise) nor any way that will appease the left as long as Trump or another Republican is in office (the left will cease to give a shit when the next Dem holds the WH like the MSM didn't report and you didn't care under Obama).   I sure as hell don't want to turn them loose in America waiting for trial...nor should anyone else with a lick of common sense. 

Every day they are here is hundreds of dollars spent on them...so send them back.  We do not need any additional people here.  We do not need any unskilled labor here.  We do not need any additional burden on our countries finances. This is an easy decision. 

I know the left wants another huge, dependent voter block....I'm sorry, we cannot afford it.  

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18561

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, XR4ticlone said:

I think it's clear there is no way to hold them that makes sense (financially or otherwise) nor any way that will appease the left as long as Trump or another Republican is in office (the left will cease to give a shit when the next Dem holds the WH like the MSM didn't report and you didn't care under Obama).   I sure as hell don't want to turn them loose in America waiting for trial...nor should anyone else with a lick of common sense. 

Every day they are here is hundreds of dollars spent on them...so send them back.  We do not need any additional people here.  We do not need any unskilled labor here.  We do not need any additional burden on our countries finances. This is an easy decision. 

I know the left wants another huge, dependent voter block....I'm sorry, we cannot afford it.  

You can't just send them back. Once they are here, they have rights. 

Also, our economy depends on immigrants. But you already knew that.

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14443

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

You can't just send them back. Once they are here, they have rights. 

Also, our economy depends on immigrants. But you already knew that.

Yes, it depends on legal immigration. That's not what is being discussed here.

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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6654

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Posted

There is no real great solution, but Trump took Obama's Very Bad policy and ran it just short of the finish line of straight up concentration camp (pending). But it's okay because something something all you leftist [Texans that all have probably voted Republican most of their lives like me] are mad.

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XR4ticlone

XR4ticlone 122

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

The actual funny thing is that this is not a left/right issue and a lot of people in the center are appalled at what we are becoming. Wait that’s not actually funny.

No, it's a left / right issue.

Look I don't hate these people.  I don't want to see anyone suffer.  But at the same time I'm not about to just have a free for all here. 

A.  These are not all just a bunch of swell fellas.  Drug smugglers, sex slaves, gang members, potential terrorists are all mixed in as well.  There is no real way to vette them either...most of these people come from countries with no real records, so we're constantly buying a pig in a poke.  That's not good business.

B.  These are not bodies we need.  Unskilled labor is going away with automation.  We don't need more people competing for those jobs in the future...or worse on welfare.  We do clearly need to adjust our welfare situation to where Americans are forced to take jobs...even jobs they don't really want.  That's kinda what jobs are...hell I'm 99% sure that's why they call them jobs in the first place. 

C.  As I touched on in the prior post...this isn't a solution to the worlds problems.  We cannot take in everyone that wants to come here or even people who 'need' to come here.  At some point we will have to say no...and that will never be 'fair' to all those behind that person in line.  So where do you want to end?  Or start? 

D.  This has impact on a ton of hard working Americans who are hurt by lowered wages, higher housing costs, in addition to the other costs associated with illegal immigration.   

It sucks.  If it really bothers you, then go move to one of these places and help fix it.  Take some friends...but that's not the easy way.

But if it only bothers you to see them suffer at the border...then shut down the Sanctuary Cities...because that's a big part of the draw to come here.  Have them stay home...quit enticing them here.

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TDunk

TDunk 590

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Posted
Quote

http://fortune.com/2017/08/08/immigration-worker-shortage-rotting-crops/

 

Quote

Vegetable prices may be going up soon, as a shortage of migrant workers is resulting in lost crops in California.

Farmers say they’re having trouble hiring enough people to work during harvest season, causing some crops to rot before they can be picked. Already, the situation has triggered losses of more than $13 million in two California counties alone, according to NBC News.

The ongoing battle about U.S. immigration policies is blamed for the shortage. The vast majority of California’s farm workers are foreign born, with many coming from Mexico. However, the PEW Research Center reports more Mexicans are leaving the U.S. than coming here.

To make the jobs more attractive, farmers are offering salaries above minimum wage, along with paid time off and 401(k) plans, but even that’s not proving enough.

It’s unclear exactly how widespread the labor shortage is for farmers throughout the country, which would have a bigger impact on prices consumers pay. Ultimately, drought and flooding have a more significant impact on farms. Low oil prices could also offset any impact of the worker shortage.

But for farmers, who have seen net farm income fall 50% since 2013, any lost income could be potentially devastating.

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18561

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, XR4ticlone said:

No, it's a left / right issue.

Look I don't hate these people.  I don't want to see anyone suffer.  But at the same time I'm not about to just have a free for all here. 

A.  These are not all just a bunch of swell fellas.  Drug smugglers, sex slaves, gang members, potential terrorists are all mixed in as well.  There is no real way to vette them either...most of these people come from countries with no real records, so we're constantly buying a pig in a poke.  That's not good business.

B.  These are not bodies we need.  Unskilled labor is going away with automation.  We don't need more people competing for those jobs in the future...or worse on welfare.  We do clearly need to adjust our welfare situation to where Americans are forced to take jobs...even jobs they don't really want.  That's kinda what jobs are...hell I'm 99% sure that's why they call them jobs in the first place. 

C.  As I touched on in the prior post...this isn't a solution to the worlds problems.  We cannot take in everyone that wants to come here or even people who 'need' to come here.  At some point we will have to say no...and that will never be 'fair' to all those behind that person in line.  So where do you want to end?  Or start? 

D.  This has impact on a ton of hard working Americans who are hurt by lowered wages, higher housing costs, in addition to the other costs associated with illegal immigration.   

It sucks.  If it really bothers you, then go move to one of these places and help fix it.  Take some friends...but that's not the easy way.

But if it only bothers you to see them suffer at the border...then shut down the Sanctuary Cities...because that's a big part of the draw to come here.  Have them stay home...quit enticing them here.

We should probably stop employing them before we do anything. Crazy, I know.

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XR4ticlone

XR4ticlone 122

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Posted
9 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You can't just send them back. Once they are here, they have rights. 

Also, our economy depends on immigrants. But you already knew that. 

They have the right to go home.

No...no it doesn't depend on immigrants.  That's asinine.  At best you can argue that they're a break even...at best.  And that's only when you don't add in a ton of costs that come with them that are not always quantifiable.   Uninsured motorists, incarceration, education of kids, welfare for them after they have anchor babies here...in addition to States that dole out block grants regardless of legal status. 

It's lazy corps and business owners that depend on illegal immigrants for labor.  When people tell me about fruits and vegetable farmers...I always tell them that my grandparents had picked corn in Iowa back in the day.  But since we didn't have migrant workers or slaves...we invented and bought combines.   The tech is there...these lazy, cheap asses need to step up and spend the money and quit putting that cost on taxpayers bringing in migrant / illegals to do cheap labor.

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XR4ticlone

XR4ticlone 122

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

We should probably stop employing them before we do anything. Crazy, I know.

I'm 100% behind doing that and fining business that use illegals.

I hope you weren't waiting for me to throw a flag up there...it's not happening.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18561

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, XR4ticlone said:

They have the right to go home.

No...no it doesn't depend on immigrants.  That's asinine.  At best you can argue that they're a break even...at best.  And that's only when you don't add in a ton of costs that come with them that are not always quantifiable.   Uninsured motorists, incarceration, education of kids, welfare for them after they have anchor babies here...in addition to States that dole out block grants regardless of legal status. 

It's lazy corps and business owners that depend on illegal immigrants for labor.  When people tell me about fruits and vegetable farmers...I always tell them that my grandparents had picked corn in Iowa back in the day.  But since we didn't have migrant workers or slaves...we invented and bought combines.   The tech is there...these lazy, cheap asses need to step up and spend the money and quit putting that cost on taxpayers bringing in migrant / illegals to do cheap labor.

Once they are here, they have constitutional rights, whether you like it or not.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18561

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, XR4ticlone said:

I'm 100% behind doing that and fining business that use illegals.

I hope you weren't waiting for me to throw a flag up there...it's not happening.

We agree on this.

We should also punish individuals who use undocumented workers, not just businesses.

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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6654

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, XR4ticlone said:

I'm 100% behind doing that and fining business that use illegals.

I hope you weren't waiting for me to throw a flag up there...it's not happening.

You might be behind it, but the GOP cucks that you deepthroat every day are actually not and that will never, ever happen.

I'm actually stunned that an adult human being can't see who benefits most from illegal alien labor in this country and can't extrapolate in their mind that all of this tough guy grandstanding about illegal immigration is nothing but a highly transparent ploy to get your stupid ass to go along with everything they say.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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I get why some of y'all are doing it, but muddying the waters with everything that needs to be done to curb illegal immigration is dodging the subject.

Donald Trump, Jeff Sessions, and the architect of this policy, Stephen Miller are taking babies and children away from their parents and locking them up in chain link cages inside old WalMarts.  

That policy is not a law.  It was not being done prior to last month.  It was not done by previous presidents.  They are doing it because......?  Not one person has answered that question.  

They are doing it because they are shitty, gross, evil beings.  There is no benefit to it.  There is no justification for it.  There is no spin to put on it. 

They started it and they could stop it.  But they don't want to.  They are attempting to use these incarcerated children as political bargaining chip to get what they want.  Period.

Bringing up all the other valid attendant issues surrounding illegal immigration in an attempt to move the conversation away is a pathetically transparent way of not addressing the evil elephant in the room.

Conservatives love to spout off about the value of every child's life and here's their chance to prove they practice what they preach.  

Surprise me by being decent.

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