DACA, immigration reform whatever

[hobbes2702 13,467]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I have no problem with immigrants. But maybe we can mix in some fucking doctors and lawyer immigrants? There’s 10 lawn and maid crews in my neighborhood everyday, think we’ve got that covered.  

America.  Will bulldoze (literally for you voters in Austin) our own poor to make room for more poor.    

13% of undocumented workers hold “white collar” jobs. I’m sure you can think of some reasons why that number isn’t higher.

[fattyflattie 4,640]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

13% of undocumented workers hold “white collar” jobs. I’m sure you can think of some reasons why that number isn’t higher.

I don’t know what your fishing for but I’ll give it some thought on the ride home today. 

[hobbes2702 13,467]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

I don’t know what your fishing for but I’ll give it some thought on the ride home today. 

You need time to understand why undocumented workers might have trouble getting white collar jobs? 

[Biff Tannen 46,163]

4 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

That’s legal immigration at work.  Beautiful thing. 

Oh, you meant illegal doctors?  Cool, cool.

[hobbes2702 13,467]

Just now, Biff Tannen said:

Oh, you meant illegal doctors?  Cool, cool.

Seriously how hard is this lol

[Zepol87 9,341]

16 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You're missing the point - you're shirking on paying taxes for your labor by exploiting immigrants and paying them less and in cash. 

He isn't missing it. That is his favorite part

[El Tri 412]

19 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I have no problem with immigrants. But maybe we can mix in some fucking doctors and lawyer immigrants? There’s 10 lawn and maid crews in my neighborhood everyday, think we’ve got that covered.  

America.  Will bulldoze (literally for you voters in Austin) our own poor to make room for more poor.    

like others said, you're missing the point, probably willfully.

you're the type of Karen that LOVES to complain about all the illegal immigration, but have no problem using them for cheap labor (the very fucking reason they're here in the first place... if there were no jobs, they wouldn't come). Just like Trump, railing against the illegals all while employing them at his own resorts.

and the doctors and lawyers and white collar professionals will come... speaking from experience as a formerly undocumented immigrant who graduated UT and does very well for himself. Most of my friends are like this, first generation Mexican-Americans who have graduated UT and doing great things.

[hayden_horn 11,402]

56 minutes ago, El Tri said:

like others said, you're missing the point, probably willfully.

you're the type of Karen that LOVES to complain about all the illegal immigration, but have no problem using them for cheap labor (the very fucking reason they're here in the first place... if there were no jobs, they wouldn't come). Just like Trump, railing against the illegals all while employing them at his own resorts.

and the doctors and lawyers and white collar professionals will come... speaking from experience as a formerly undocumented immigrant who graduated UT and does very well for himself. Most of my friends are like this, first generation Mexican-Americans who have graduated UT and doing great things.

also, as an employer, paying people under the table isn't exactly...legal. it's really amazing that he decries the very thing that he's taking advantage of. the fact that he doesn't see that or simply doesn't care is incredible.

"undocumented workers shouldn't be here, but if they are pay them in cash!"

we should let the haitians in. this is what i never understand about the refugee "hordes."

my stance has always kind of been "you know, why don't we let them in?"

[hobbes2702 13,467]

4 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

also, as an employer, paying people under the table isn't exactly...legal. it's really amazing that he decries the very thing that he's taking advantage of. the fact that he doesn't see that or simply doesn't care is incredible.

"undocumented workers shouldn't be here, but if they are pay them in cash!"

we should let the haitians in. this is what i never understand about the refugee "hordes."

my stance has always kind of been "you know, why don't we let them in?"

Seriously I would love for someone to list some negative impacts of immigration

[fattyflattie 4,640]

1 hour ago, El Tri said:

but have no problem using them for cheap labor

I actually hate that we now have to have a lawn crew.  But that's another story for another day. 

1 hour ago, El Tri said:

using them for cheap labor (the very fucking reason they're here in the first place... if there were no jobs, they wouldn't come)

Wait a minute now.  I was told these are refugees would be killed if they stayed in their home lands. Gangs would kill them, no govt. etc.  Religious persecution.  Think we all know what the real reason is, but cool.  Different rules for refugees so they're all now refugees.  

1 hour ago, El Tri said:

speaking from experience as a formerly undocumented immigrant who graduated UT and does very well for himself.

Very happy for you.  You seem to achieving the American dream.  I work everyday with some unbelievable talented 1st generation folks.  They are all very well educated and driven.  

8 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

it's really amazing that he decries the very thing that he's taking advantage of. the fact that he doesn't see that or simply doesn't care is incredible.

I'll see if he'll take a check on Friday, but I'm guessing he's not into paying taxes.  Want to live and work here, not excited about contributing though... 

Also, I like how you are painting it like I sought out the only illegal lawn crew because they were $10 cheaper, and not just the wife flagging my neighbors guy over when I got stuck out of country.  But yours makes for a better narrative.  

9 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

my stance has always kind of been "you know, why don't we let them in?"

We should, if they meet the qualifications for refugees, or want to come in legally like many that have before them.   Until then, maybe we can focus on our homegrown problems?

[fattyflattie 4,640]

12 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Seriously I would love for someone to list some negative impacts of immigration

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=negative+impacts+of+illegal+immigration&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

[hobbes2702 13,467]

3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=negative+impacts+of+illegal+immigration&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

Did you read any of those articles at all? I bet not. 

[fattyflattie 4,640]

Not yet, I literally just posted that link. I can offer all kinds of anecdotal experiences of Fort Bend if you’d like?  

[hobbes2702 13,467]

Cool. So still waiting on that list of the negative impacts of immigration. 

[fattyflattie 4,640]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Cool. So still waiting on that list of the negative impacts of immigration. 

So you haven’t read any of the links either? 

[hayden_horn 11,402]

22 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Seriously I would love for someone to list some negative impacts of immigration

if you take a close look at it, most of the negative impacts of immigration are entirely self-inflicted by the way we've structured everything.

damn near every place has a "we're hiring" sign out right now. and we got all these people wanting to come here and work.

i dunno, let em in, give em a green card and get them into the system with a path to citizenship.

i never understood the unnecessary artificial barriers we put in place for immigrants. 

[hobbes2702 13,467]

Just now, fattyflattie said:

So you haven’t read any of the links either? 

I read the abstracts. They don’t discuss what you seem to think they do. 

[hobbes2702 13,467]

Just now, hayden_horn said:

if you take a close look at it, most of the negative impacts of immigration are entirely self-inflicted by the way we've structured everything.

damn near every place has a "we're hiring" sign out right now. and we got all these people wanting to come here and work.

i dunno, let em in, give em a green card and get them into the system with a path to citizenship.

i never understood the unnecessary artificial barriers we put in place for immigrants. 

Most of the “negative impacts” are not supported by fact. 

[hayden_horn 11,402]

Just now, hobbes2702 said:

Most of the “negative impacts” are not supported by fact. 

most of the negative impacts are far more harmful for the immigrant family than the rest of us, and that's to what i was referring. we have guys like fatty paying an undocumented worker in cash with no sense of hypocrisy or irony. we've driven them underground and artificially lowered the cost of doing a good job because they have no means to appeal it, or they risk deportment.

it's actually fucking tragic.

[hobbes2702 13,467]

1 minute ago, hayden_horn said:

most of the negative impacts are far more harmful for the immigrant family than the rest of us, and that's to what i was referring. we have guys like fatty paying an undocumented worker in cash with no sense of hypocrisy or irony. we've driven them underground and artificially lowered the cost of doing a good job because they have no means to appeal it, or they risk deportment.

it's actually fucking tragic.

Ah I get your point now and it’s exactly right. 
I guess I need to stop being surprised by the abject hypocrisy of these people 

[Brisketexan 106,886]

20 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

We should, if they meet the qualifications for refugees, or want to come in legally like many that have before them.   Until then, maybe we can focus on our homegrown problems?

Cool, cool.  So, on the "come in legally like many that have before them" - you want to hold immigrants to the same standards as before.  Willing to apply the same rules?  Because you're gonna shit when you realize how easy it has been at various times for brown people to move freely back and forth across our border.

And I ALWAYS love the "we should focus on our homegrown problems first!" trope.  Cool, so let's improve our financial and practical commitment to education -- what's that, that's commie socialism?  Huh.  What about if we improve housing?  What, that's more commie socialism?  Nobody who says what you say actually wants to "focus on our homegrown problems."  To the point that you should be embarrassed to trot out that bullshit.

[hobbes2702 13,467]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool, cool.  So, on the "come in legally like many that have before them" - you want to hold immigrants to the same standards as before.  Willing to apply the same rules?  Because you're gonna shit when you realize how easy it has been at various times for brown people to move freely back and forth across our border.

And I ALWAYS love the "we should focus on our homegrown problems first!" trope.  Cool, so let's improve our financial and practical commitment to education -- what's that, that's commie socialism?  Huh.  What about if we improve housing?  What, that's more commie socialism?  Nobody who says what you say actually wants to "focus on our homegrown problems."  To the point that you should be embarrassed to trot out that bullshit.

Why would he be embarrassed? The cruelty is the point example 8653

[Born to Run 6,601]

I have no problem with immigrants. But maybe we can mix in some fucking doctors and lawyer immigrants? There’s 10 lawn and maid crews in my neighborhood everyday, think we’ve got that covered.  
America.  Will bulldoze (literally for you voters in Austin) our own poor to make room for more poor.    

Cool, send the poors and excess immigrants up to Austin because I need labor to get shit done badly. There is no idle labor here.


I can count on maybe two hands the number of white laborers and tradesman that were not shitty and major drug addicts over the course of my 25years in construction. seriously. But send them on up.

Check only, no cash, need a legit W9 and Id to hire tho...

[fattyflattie 4,640]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool, cool.  So, on the "come in legally like many that have before them" - you want to hold immigrants to the same standards as before.  Willing to apply the same rules?  Because you're gonna shit when you realize how easy it has been at various times for brown people to move freely back and forth across our border.

And I ALWAYS love the "we should focus on our homegrown problems first!" trope.  Cool, so let's improve our financial and practical commitment to education -- what's that, that's commie socialism?  Huh.  What about if we improve housing?  What, that's more commie socialism?  Nobody who says what you say actually wants to "focus on our homegrown problems."  To the point that you should be embarrassed to trot out that bullshit.

I'd rather we have a work program like we've had, where you could easily migrate back and forth.  There is work here that needs to be done cheaply, but people who don't want to live here. 

Why would a Bush type immigration policy would appease both sides?  The problem is there is no policy.  Open borders is not a policy.   We are the worlds daycare, and if you are a high earner, whelp, just keep working to support errrrbody because they are humans.  It's bullshit. 

 

 

 

[Born to Run 6,601]

Like I said, am I if he does what he is legally and morally supposed to do?  Anymore than someone you buy goods from deciding they aren’t going to pay taxes that year?  I give him money, whether he obeys the law is not my choice.  Hard to assume they are considering they started off the American dream by breaking it. 

This is fucking dumb ass kicking the can down the road shit that centrist Republicans love. "It's the Mexicans jobs to self report cash income!" whilst working every tax loophole possible to pay laughable minimums

[fattyflattie 4,640]

4 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

Cool, send the poors and excess immigrants up to Austin because I need labor to get shit done badly. There is no idle labor here.


I can count on maybe two hands the number of white laborers and tradesman that were not shitty and major drug addicts over the course of my 25years in construction. seriously. But send them on up.

Check only, no cash, need a legit W9 and Id to hire tho...

Lol.  Like they could afford to live in Austin.  Pretty sure Austin's getting less diverse, not more.  Now is that a bug, or a feature, as they say?

[hobbes2702 13,467]

We don’t have open borders and undocumented workers aren’t eligible for government benefits even though they pay taxes. Seriously just one time make a post that’s factually accurate

Edited September 21, 2021 by hobbes2702

[fattyflattie 4,640]

3 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

"It's the Mexicans jobs to self report cash income!" whilst working every tax loophole possible to pay laughable minimums

By that I assume you mean legal loopholes, that are in the tax code?  It makes no difference to me if its a lawn guy, immigrant, or some fucking bartender.  Report your wages or you are actively not contributing to society.  The rest of us that have do it the right way might finally get some fucking relief. 

[fattyflattie 4,640]

4 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

We don’t have open borders and undocumented workers aren’t eligible for government benefits even though they pay taxes. Seriously just one time make a post that’s factually accurate

What govt. benefit did I claim they take?  Or are you projecting, again?

[Born to Run 6,601]

Cool, cool.  So, on the "come in legally like many that have before them" - you want to hold immigrants to the same standards as before.  Willing to apply the same rules?  Because you're gonna shit when you realize how easy it has been at various times for brown people to move freely back and forth across our border.
And I ALWAYS love the "we should focus on our homegrown problems first!" trope.  Cool, so let's improve our financial and practical commitment to education -- what's that, that's commie socialism?  Huh.  What about if we improve housing?  What, that's more commie socialism?  Nobody who says what you say actually wants to "focus on our homegrown problems."  To the point that you should be embarrassed to trot out that bullshit.

Perhaps he meant black dudes with guns in Chicago, or a VP that both doesn't do anything, yet is our shadow president and is a hideous person, but also a whore that sleeps her way to the top. Our stateside issues are many and confusing.

[Born to Run 6,601]

Lol.  Like they could afford to live in Austin.  Pretty sure Austin's getting less diverse, not more.  Now is that a bug, or a feature, as they say?

They live in cheaper enclaves or commute. Same as the Leanderthales I hire.

[Born to Run 6,601]

By that I assume you mean legal loopholes, that are in the tax code?  It makes no difference to me if its a lawn guy, immigrant, or some fucking bartender.  Report your wages or you are actively not contributing to society.  The rest of us that have do it the right way might finally get some fucking relief. 

I'm sure you've reported every penny ever and never had a questionable write off.

Me too. When I'm at Home Depot grabbing work shit and remember I need paper towels at home I always ring up personal shit on my personal CC . Sure it pisses of everyone in line, but fulfilling my duty is crucial.


Until I get to your income bracket where cheating the IRS means I'm just seeking relief from an excessive tax burden from illegals, then it's Katy bar the door.

[fattyflattie 4,640]

6 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

I'm sure you've reported every penny ever and never had a questionable write off.

Me too. When I'm at Home Depot grabbing work shit and remember I need paper towels at home I always ring up personal shit on my personal CC . Sure it pisses of everyone in line, but fulfilling my duty is crucial.


Until I get to your income bracket where cheating the IRS means I'm just seeking relief from an excessive tax burden from illegals, then it's Katy bar the door.

Yeah, pretty much. I've only ever been large corp. employed, have never outright sold a vehicle to another individual.  Always put the actual amount I paid when titling things.  To be honest, I've never really ever sold anything, much less made a profit on anything I have sold.  Wife tried a garage sell once, so I'm about $50 into cheating the system.  Let's call it even since I've never taken the donation ticket at the women's shelter deal.   So yeah, Uncle Sam has been much gotten everything they can out of me to date.  Wife has been paying a Hispanic man in cash as he requested for about a year now, since I've back to traveling for work.  He may or may not be illegal.  Pretty sure some on his crew aren't.  I honestly dgaf as long as they are upstanding citizens, and it would be nice if they paid some taxes (I have more of a problem with our tax code than their contribution level).   I just look around the poor parts of our area, and seems pretty fucking irresponsible to be inviting 10's of thousands (or more) annually when we have people that will never have a pot to piss in already here.  Anyhow, it's been fun.  Good luck with your search for cheap labor, there's plenty in H-town. 

[mchookem 16,765]

3 hours ago, El Tri said:

typical asshole who complains and bitches about immigrants, but has no issue hiring them because they will do the job better and cheaper.

quit being a hypocrite and hire only americans and pay them much more, with a check

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

....or want to come in legally like many that have before them.   Until then, maybe we can focus on our homegrown problems?

This has been discussed before so I won't get into the long and drawn out, plus @Brisketexan already mentioned the way the southern border has been w/respect to working arrangements but the "many" part of legally is not so easy. The 7% rule applied across the board to countries has an effect. Some families have waited more than a decade or longer because they happen to live in a country with a large population. In 2019 there was a move to remove some of the quotas but the Senate squashed it. I expect that hopping on the Train of Death from Matamoros is perhaps the least of the dangers some immigrants will face. We have, in spite of the governor and his like-minded heavy handed views of host bodies, an aging population and people who need work. Give them work visas and watch the US flourish. Many hands make light work.

[hobbes2702 13,467]

49 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

What govt. benefit did I claim they take?  Or are you projecting, again?

Then what point were you trying to make about rich people supporting them?

[F250 29,199]

3 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

I have no problem with immigrants. But maybe we can mix in some fucking doctors and lawyer immigrants? There’s 10 lawn and maid crews in my neighborhood everyday, think we’ve got that covered. 

My mom's housekeeper and landscaper were a married couple from Mexico. The wife was a nurse and the husband a doctor South of the border. You would be surprised at some of the educations that illegals have before making the journey.

 

 

[Brisketexan 106,886]

56 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I'd rather we have a work program like we've had, where you could easily migrate back and forth.  There is work here that needs to be done cheaply, but people who don't want to live here. 

Cool.  Tell your boys to support it.  They used to...as you noted....

57 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Why would a Bush type immigration policy would appease both sides?  The problem is there is no policy.  Open borders is not a policy. 

I was a Republican voter during the Bush governor era.  I was at GOP precinct conventions, I lobbied, I spoke up, I voted for and against things.  And I saw the beginning of the strident GQP anti-immigrant tide start to show up.  I remember our precinct chair shooting down some of their hideous proposals with a rejoinder of "our governor wouldn't be in favor of that, so we shouldn't do it."  But after the meeting, he confessed that their numbers were growing, and he couldn't hold them off for much longer.  He didn't.

Except for the most fringey of fringe, no Dem has ever proposed or supported "open borders."  That's a scary phrase that the Fox News crowd uses, but nobody of any substance supports it.  Instead, they consistently support border security measures (seriously, go back and look at voting records of guys like Schumer on historical border security packages, before the Trump "WALL!" insanity, as just one example).  We can't have a reasonable, guest-worker program because the GQP and Fox News crowd will never agree to it.  Ever.  They literally have a one-note immigration policy -- "WALL!"  That's it.  It's the only thing.  Wait, that's not true.  They also want to sharply restrict LEGAL immigration (yep, check the record) -- you know, the thing that Repubs always say they are NOT against, they only have a problem with ILLEGAL immigration?  Yeah, that thing -- they're against that, too.

[Anastasis 23,717]

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Except for the most fringey of fringe, no Dem has ever proposed or supported "open borders." 

At least as long as they suppress the progressive wing. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

I don't think that is so. Libertarians I could see being in favor of, but true open borders like the domestic states have, I am not so sure many of the progressives would go that far, would they?

[Brisketexan 106,886]

I don't think that is so. Libertarians I could see being in favor of, but true open borders like the domestic states have, I am not so sure many of the progressives would go that far, would they?

They don’t. There some lovely philosophy behind the idea of truly open borders, but it’s masturbatory fantasy shit in the real world. Job Lennon’s “imagine” is just a song, not a real policy proposal.

[Anastasis 23,717]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

They don’t. There some lovely philosophy behind the idea of truly open borders, but it’s masturbatory fantasy shit in the real world. Job Lennon’s “imagine” is just a song, not a real policy proposal.

This is the part where the former republicans that now claim the blue jerseys tell everybody that there is no progressive movement towards open borders and that the progressives that do go there are just doing masturbatory fantasy shit. Which isn't necessarily wrong.  But I am sure that they love being lectured to by the former republican butt sniffers. 

[F250 29,199]

So is anyone going to speak to the manager or what? Biden is still using Title 42 to deport asylum seekers which is a Miller creation. Biden scared of the Republican response or just a case of DGAF?

 

 

[Anastasis 23,717]

1 minute ago, F250 said:

So is anyone going to speak to the manager or what? Biden is still using Title 42 to deport asylum seekers which is a Miller creation. Biden scared of the Republican response or just a case of DGAF?

[fattyflattie 4,640]

50 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool.  Tell your boys to support it.  They used to...as you noted....

I have no more "boys".  Orange man destroyed them, and the party.

56 minutes ago, F250 said:

My mom's housekeeper and landscaper were a married couple from Mexico. The wife was a nurse and the husband a doctor South of the border. You would be surprised at some of the educations that illegals have before making the journey.

I would be surprised only in the fact they came illegally.  I worked and lived in Mexico for a not insignificant amount of time (years, cumulative), and in a shitty part.  Worked with many brilliant, hard working, God loving people.  I get why some want to be here, can understand why some like Mexico better.  The problem is the system we have set up to forces one to cross illegally does no one any favors.  I assume they would have preferred to continue their professions here, which is impossible as undocumented workers.  I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but it can't be that fucking hard to figure out a system that works for most, if not everyone.   eta: Focusing on Mexico due to your example.  I can see why ANY Haitian wants to be here.  And same goes for several of the other places I've called "home".

50 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We can't have a reasonable, guest-worker program because the GQP and Fox News crowd will never agree to it.  Ever.  They literally have a one-note immigration policy -- "WALL!"  That's it.  It's the only thing.  Wait, that's not true.  They also want to sharply restrict LEGAL immigration (yep, check the record) -- you know, the thing that Repubs always say they are NOT against, they only have a problem with ILLEGAL immigration?  Yeah, that thing -- they're against that, too.

Yeah but fuck all those guys.  The Dems are shoehorning all kinds of shit in without R support, why not try and advance some immigration?  Might be because they dont really gaf either?   

If we could figure out taxes and immigration, I believe about 50% of our "issues" would disappear begin to resolve overnight.  

Edited September 22, 2021 by fattyflattie

[Brisketexan 106,886]

This is the part where the former republicans that now claim the blue jerseys tell everybody that there is no progressive movement towards open borders and that the progressives that do go there are just doing masturbatory fantasy shit. Which isn't necessarily wrong.  But I am sure that they love being lectured to by the former republican butt sniffers. 

Oh blah blah blah - “isn’t necessarily wrong.” That’s where it ends up. Sorry/not sorry that I’ve had a broad and evolving perspective, and can spot the bullshit from multiple directions. Guess I should just stick with a tired “both sides” schtick to earn the admiration of….someone who’s been extra shitty lately.

[Brisketexan 106,886]

Yeah but fuck all those guys.  The Dems are shoehorning all kinds of shit in without R support, why not try and advance some immigration?  Might be because they dont really gaf either?   
If we could figure out taxes and immigration, I believe about 50% of our "issues" would disappear begin to resolve overnight.  

Interestingly, they tried. Senate parliamentarian just told them no. And they can’t get anything past the filibuster….and GQP blockades. We always end up back in the same place, with the same villains.

[Anastasis 23,717]

18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh blah blah blah

It must be rough for a former card carrying republican to try to ingratiate themselves to the D party without actually putting off any progressives.  Or maybe not. Sorry that you don't understand why nothing really ever fucking changes. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Anastasis

[Captainant 28,530]

it is really funny to watch someone who lives off of profiteering off sick people come in and be sanctimonious about profiteering off immigrants. Keep up the outstanding work, annie

[Anastasis 23,717]