DACA, immigration reform whatever

[atomheartbevo 90,653]

Sanders Huckatooth is going hard in the paint on blaming Congress. 

[Brisketexan 106,909]

Just now, Spankytoes said:

I’m all for it. Who does Mexico make the check out to for payment of operation? We’re covering the land and taxes already.

Ummmm.....you know that not all brown folks are mexican, right?

[Spankytoes 1,748]

3 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Point the finger at the families fleeing death? Ok, go for it.

And that’s our problem how again?

[Brisketexan 106,909]

Just now, Spankytoes said:

And that’s our problem how again?

Remind me never to come running to you for help when my life is in danger.

[bad_teammate 13,531]

Just now, Spankytoes said:

And that’s our problem how again?

Some of us aren't huge pieces of shit.

[atomheartbevo 90,653]

At least the administration officially admitted it was for leverage. 

[David Dennison 19,544]

1 minute ago, Spankytoes said:

And that’s our problem how again?

They are showing up at our border seeking asylum. That gives them legal rights. Once they are in the country, they also have constitutional rights.

[Spankytoes 1,748]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Ummmm.....you know that not all brown folks are mexican, right?

I do. You do realize that over 90% of the issues comes through Mexico though, right? If they want to split the check then that’s cool too.

[kevwun 16,440]

Trump needed a distraction from the Mueller probe, so they created this mess.

[zork 629]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

This.

Detain and treat humanely -- there are dozens of ways to go about that.

Allow them to proceed to their asylum hearing as quickly as possible.  If they meet the criteria, grant them asylum.  If not, deport the family.

If you want to "disincentivize" such border crossings, tell folks that (1) we'll have to hold you until your asylum hearing, and (2) if you don't get approved, you're shipped back to your home country.  If you don't have a good claim for asylum, don't bother trying.

Why is the US government responsible for holding the people or paying for anything for them?  Gently drive them back across the border and give them a ticket for a court date if they are wanting to seek asylum and if they crossed at a valid crossing point.  That keeps the potential asylum seeker family in tact and reduces the costs for the US taxpayer.

[Dahobbs 18,326]

Just now, Spankytoes said:

I’m all for it. Who does Mexico make the check out to for payment of operation? We’re covering the land and taxes already.

We pay for it because that was is what a moral and just society does. We aren't fucking lacking for money and it is ridiculous to act like it. Personally, I'd let everyone in that wanted in. I'd also let any country in the world become a state if it wanted to. I recognize I'm on the fringe on that particular point. However, I also recognize that anyone that supports or justifies what is currently going is an evil fuck stick. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

 

[Spankytoes 1,748]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Remind me never to come running to you for help when my life is in danger.

How many homeless people are living with you right now? Ballpark? Do their needs get taken care of before your kid’s?

 

[Js1 87,187]

2 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Trump needed a distraction from the Mueller probe, so they created this mess.

Trump: How do we re-energize Democrats and put every GOP congressperson in an untenable position 5 months out from midterm elections without it being about Mueller or Russia?

Miller: Oh my gawwwd, I think I have an idea.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Js1

[atomheartbevo 90,653]

2 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Trump needed a distraction from the Mueller probe, so they created this mess.

They are going to need another press conference just to deal with the questions raised by today’s press conference. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by atomheartbevo

[David Dennison 19,544]

1 minute ago, Spankytoes said:

How many homeless people are living with you right now? Ballpark? Do their needs get taken care of before your kid’s?

I'll let you know the first time one of them knocks on my door.

[Brisketexan 106,909]

2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

And that’s our problem how again?

And as a separate note, some of the most important and meaningful things I've done in my life have been acts of helping other people in crisis.  It has cost me time, stress, and no small amount of money.  And when I look back at my life over the best moments, those moments are up there with the birth of my kids and the 2006 Rose Bowl.  That's how decent human beings should approach the world.

When you come to a fork in the road between "cruel" and "kind," there's a right fork to take.  It's not always easy.  It's not necessarily the most self-interested thing to do.  It's not always cheap.  But it's almost always RIGHT.

Quote

Together, tonight, let us say what so many long to hear: that America is still united, still strong, still compassionate, still clinging fast to the dream of peace and freedom, still willing to stand by those who are persecuted or alone.

For those who seek the right to self-determination without interference from foreign powers, tonight let us speak for them,

For those who suffer from social or religious discrimination,

For those who are victims of police states or government induced torture or terror,

For those who are persecuted,

For all the countries and people of the world who seek only to live in harmony with each other, tonight let us speak for them.

We used to believe that.

I still do.  So do a lot of other Americans.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,733]

Almost 60% of Republicans support taking the immigrant children away from their parents.  Vindictive bunch of people.  

[Dahobbs 18,326]

2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

How many homeless people are living with you right now? Ballpark? Do their needs get taken care of before your kid’s?

 

Bullshit. We as a society can afford to care for these people in a humane way until the law sorts out their status. You act like we aren't paying for care if we fucking jail them and throw the kids in camps. All I'm asking is we put the families together. The expense is there one or another. But one expense is humane and the other is only what an evil fuck stick does. I guess you've decided what where you stand. Sad. 

[Spankytoes 1,748]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Some of us aren't huge pieces of shit.

If a 42 year old dude fucked your 15 year old daughter consensually after meeting over the internet  I’m sure you’d say “Eh, she’s close enough”.

You let me know which ones of these law enforcements I should get outraged over. 

[Spankytoes 1,748]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I'll let you know the first time one of them knocks on my door.

What would you do if they broke in though? I thought so...

[NIUHuskies 505]

3 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

And that’s our problem how again?

We have had our fingers on Latin America since the Monroe doctrine. It is our policies that have shaped the directions of El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala. Further, the cartels are in power because of the addictions of American citizens. Those cartels are the ones who create the violence that the refugees are fleeing.

[bad_teammate 13,531]

1 minute ago, Spankytoes said:

If a 42 year old dude fucked your 15 year old daughter consensually after meeting over the internet  I’m sure you’d say “Eh, she’s close enough”.

You let me know which ones of these law enforcements I should get outraged over. 

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Explain. You seem desperate to find some kind of ideological cover for your morally and ethically untenable position.

[Brisketexan 106,909]

4 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

How many homeless people are living with you right now? Ballpark? Do their needs get taken care of before your kid’s?

 

You really don't want to ask me that question.  And I'm not going to get into private specifics here on this board, out of respect for the other people, and because it would be unseemly for me to do so.  Suffice it to say that we are directly, personally, and financially involved in assisting a family in need.  We have helped them come a long way, and they will hopefully be self-sufficient in the very near future.  In the meantime, what is ours is theirs.

[Lucid 3]

17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Why?

Because it is nonsensical to let people who have nearly zero incentive to show up for their hearing go

[Spankytoes 1,748]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And as a separate note, some of the most important and meaningful things I've done in my life have been acts of helping other people in crisis.  It has cost me time, stress, and no small amount of money.  And when I look back at my life over the best moments, those moments are up there with the birth of my kids and the 2006 Rose Bowl.  That's how decent human beings should approach the world.

When you come to a fork in the road between "cruel" and "kind," there's a right fork to take.  It's not always easy.  It's not necessarily the most self-interested thing to do.  It's not always cheap.  But it's almost always RIGHT.

We used to believe that.

I still do.  So do a lot of other Americans.

Completely admiral. Let’s not confuse “Democracy” with “Charity” though. Especially when it’s illegally enforced.

[bad_teammate 13,531]

1 minute ago, NIUHuskies said:

We have had our fingers on Latin America since the Monroe doctrine. It is our policies that have shaped the directions of El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala. Further, the cartels are in power because of the addictions of American citizens. Those cartels are the ones who create the violence that the refugees are fleeing.

"Look, just because we help create the problem doesn't mean we're responsible for helping with the problem's consequences." - People who talk about personal responsibility all the time

[Brisketexan 106,909]

1 minute ago, Spankytoes said:

Completely admiral. Let’s not confuse “Democracy” with “Charity” though. Especially when it’s illegally enforced.

I'm just trying to get us to a baseline of "human decency."  We can debate "charity" later.

And I guess the irony of me repeatedly quoting that pussy libtard Ronald Reagan is completely lost on folks.  Sigh.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Brisketexan

[bad_teammate 13,531]

Just now, Lucid said:

Because it is nonsensical to let people who have nearly zero incentive to show up for their hearing go

So instead of thinking of a real solution, just create concentration camps? lol OK bud

[Js1 87,187]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

"Look, just because we help create the problem doesn't mean we're responsible for helping with the problem's consequences." - People who talk about personal responsibility all the time

You should know by now the party of personal responsibility will not take responsibility for the problems we create outside our borders. Those shitholes need to fix what we broke.

[Dahobbs 18,326]

2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Completely admiral. Let’s not confuse “Democracy” with “Charity” though. Especially when it’s illegally enforced.

Charity is and should be a big part of our democracy. I want us to be the city on the hill that all others aspire to be. Some people have lost sight of our ideals. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Dahobbs

[atomheartbevo 90,653]

2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

If a 42 year old dude fucked your 15 year old daughter consensually after meeting over the internet  I’m sure you’d say “Eh, she’s close enough”.

You let me know which ones of these law enforcements I should get outraged over. 

What color was the guy your daughter fucked?

[Js1 87,187]

Just now, atomheartbevo said:

What color was the guy your daughter fucked?

Was it not Roy Moore?

[Spankytoes 1,748]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Explain. You seem desperate to find some kind of ideological cover for your morally and ethically untenable position.

I can type it, but I can’t make you understand it. Which of our laws are just suggestions? You seem to have a distinction because of the manner of which it is enforced. If you beat the shit out of the 42 year old dude ducking your 15 year old daughter, I would be 100% on your side. It’s still illegal though and you’ll still go to jail. Just because it feels right doesn’t negate that fact.

[atomheartbevo 90,653]

Just now, Js1 said:

Was it not Roy Moore?

Well then what’s the problem?

/GOP

[Dahobbs 18,326]

1 minute ago, Spankytoes said:

I can type it, but I can’t make you understand it. Which of our laws are just suggestions? You seem to have a distinction because of the manner of which it is enforced. If you beat the shit out of the 42 year old dude ducking your 15 year old daughter, I would be 100% on your side. It’s still illegal though and you’ll still go to jail. Just because it feels right doesn’t negate that fact.

Who is saying not to enforce the laws? We are just saying to enforce them in a morally responsible fashion. Again, the expense of housing these folks is there either way. Why you insist on the absolutely shittiest way to do it is beyond me. 

[bad_teammate 13,531]

Just now, Spankytoes said:

Which of our laws are just suggestions? You seem to have a distinction because of the manner of which it is enforced.

Literally everyone who is not a sociopath holds laws in varying degrees of respect and wants them enforced variably. You do, too.

Should everyone who jaywalks be ticketed? What about someone who walks out of a bar drunk and gets into an uber?

Everyone is for the selective enforcement of laws and for the selective use of sentencing. The only difference is which laws, which sentences, and the ethical/moral standards behind those distinctions.

[Spankytoes 1,748]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Charity is and should be a big part of our democracy. 

It’s not charity when people pay into it. (Welfare, Medicare, SS, etc.) It’s charity when we give you money and resources to help people in YOUR country. No one is advocating that this stops. It simply needs to be stemmed here when gained through illegal means.

[Dahobbs 18,326]

2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

It’s not charity when people pay into it. (Welfare, Medicare, SS, etc.) It’s charity when we give you money and resources to help people in YOUR country. No one is advocating that this stops. It simply needs to be stemmed here when gained through illegal means.

We give charity to other countries, including providing disaster relief and humanitarian aid. These are absolutely things we, as one of the richest and most powerful countries in the world (if not #1), should continue doing. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Dahobbs

[Spankytoes 1,748]

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Who is saying not to enforce the laws? We are just saying to enforce them in a morally responsible fashion. Again, the expense of housing these folks is there either way. Why you insist on the absolutely shittiest way to do it is beyond me. 

I asked above what the appropriate way to enforce the law would be that doesn’t cost us more $ to pay for non-citizens breaking the law. I’ll ask again.

I agree, it’s completely shitty and I hate it. I also hate that gun owners aren’t more on board with seriously restricting ownership when kids are constantly dying in this country. But, what’s the answer?

Edited June 18, 2018 by Spankytoes

[Spankytoes 1,748]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

We give charity to other countries, including providing disaster relief and humanitarian aid. These are absolutely things we, as one of the richest and most powerful countries in the world (if not #1), should do and should continue doing. 

100% agree and said as much in the post you quoted

[Lucid 3]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

So instead of thinking of a real solution, just create concentration camps? lol OK bud

The real solution is clear - get Congress to make a law so that children can be detained with their families until a determination is made

[Foosters 18,284]

9 minutes ago, Lucid said:

Because it is nonsensical to let people who have nearly zero incentive to show up for their hearing go

people claiming Asylum on a protected ground have zero incentive to show up for their hearing?

[Brisketexan 106,909]

Just now, Spankytoes said:

I asked above what the appropriate way to enforce the law would be that doesn’t cost us more $ to lay for non-citizens breaking the law. I’ll ask again.

I agree, it’s completely shitty and I hate it. I also hate that gun owners aren’t more on board with seriously restricting ownership when kids are constantly dying in this country. But, what’s the answer?

Well, the answer is obvious: forcible separation of children from their parents, in order to gain political leverage.

The admin just told us so, straight up.

Duh.

[JBJ 3,828]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

We give charity to other countries, including providing disaster relief and humanitarian aid. These are absolutely things we, as one of the richest and most powerful countries in the world (if not #1), should do and should continue doing. 

We are terrible at aid, but that is a separate issue.

This isn't about charity.  It's about being reasonable when masses show up on our border.

And I bet we could set up FEMA camps for families for cheaper than the costs of placing the children elsewhere.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

15 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Trump needed a distraction from the Mueller probe, so they created this mess.

If this were true, why does Trump keep tweeting about the Mueller probe?

He would be doing this without the Mueller probe, they’ve been talking about it for a year.

These are the dark times.

[bad_teammate 13,531]

1 minute ago, Spankytoes said:

I asked above what the appropriate way to enforce the law would be that doesn’t cost us more $ to pay for non-citizens breaking the law. I’ll ask again.

I agree, it’s completely shitty and I hate it. I also hate that gun owners aren’t more on board with seriously restricting ownership when kids are constantly dying in this country. But, what’s the answer?

Please take a moment to consider the conflict between the two bolded sections.

How much do you think it would cost to humanely house these people while their cases are being considered? How much would it cost you, specifically?

[Dahobbs 18,326]

4 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

I asked above what the appropriate way to enforce the law would be that doesn’t cost us more $ to lay for non-citizens breaking the law. I’ll ask again.

I agree, it’s completely shitty and I hate it. I also hate that gun owners aren’t more on board with seriously restricting ownership when kids are constantly dying in this country. But, what’s the answer?

(1) You haven't shown that it will cost 1 cent more. I expect that it would actually cost less because we wouldn't need separate facilities and wouldn't need to pay for a shit ton of nannies.

(2) Even if it does cost more, it is our obligation as the rich and powerful country that we are to treat people appropriately, and so the marginal extra expense is easily justified. At least, to decent human beings it is. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Dahobbs

[Dahobbs 18,326]

3 minutes ago, Lucid said:

The real solution is clear - get Congress to make a law so that children can be detained with their families until a determination is made

There is no law against it that I'm aware of. 

[bad_teammate 13,531]

I like the way Spankytoes said "make no mistake" about this being a real problem exactly the way Trump says "believe me" when he's saying something that is obviously bullshit.