DACA, immigration reform whatever

[Dahobbs 18,332]

17 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

It’s hard to answer you directly when your points are so offbase that we’re now daisychaining separating families for breaking a clear law with clearly stated consequences to gassing people to exterminate a race simply because we don’t like them. That’s quite a leap of logic there. You are free to think anything you want about my POV. That doesn’t concern me in the slightest. 

How was I offbase? My point was simple: punishment should fit the crime. Your proposed punishment does not. More than that, it is morally abhorent to punish children for crimes of the parent.

And further, it doesnt seem the deterrent effect you want is even possible. These people have sacrificied everything and left their homes, risked tremedous danger to come here. I am not sure than anything short of shooting everyone at the border would deter them. 

Again, there are plenty of other punishments that could deter. Simply denying all such requests is probably punishment enough. I dont think deterrance is possible unless this country continues down this road. Then none would want to live here. A kingdom to yourself spanky. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Dahobbs

[Aqua Buddha 14,807]

I like how the party of "unborn children" supported child molester (Roy Moore, Dennis Hastert, etc.) and Kiddie Concentration Camps.....

[Spankytoes 1,748]

5 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Yeah then maybe you should start spending some time condemning heartless and inhuman policies instead of excusing them with your issues and disagreements about immigration policies. 

OK. I condem thee policy!

But I also don’t have a better solution to the problem we’re having to deal with/pay for because they don’t take it seriously.

[Dahobbs 18,332]

2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

OK. I condem thee policy!

But I also don’t have a better solution to the problem we’re having to deal with/pay for because they don’t take it seriously.

No, you dont. 

[Spankytoes 1,748]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

How was I offbase? My point was simple: punishment should fit the crime. Your proposed punishment does not. More than that, it is morally abhorent to punish children for crimes of the parent.

And further, it doesnt seem the deterrent effect you want is even possible. These people have sacrificied everything and left their homes, risked tremedous danger to come here. I am not sure than anything short of shooting everyone at the border would deter them. 

Yup. What do you think comes next when this fails with the guy in office? Then I’ll switch sides on the issue.

[hobbes2702 13,490]

1 minute ago, Spankytoes said:

OK. I condem thee policy!

But I also don’t have a better solution to the problem we’re having to deal with/pay for because they don’t take it seriously.

You I can think of nothing better to do than taking kids from their parents? That’s hard to believe 

[David Dennison 19,558]

2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Correct. Your first time. What would you guess the percentage of those caught would show up on the repeat-offender’s pie chart? 

Depends on whether they actually get deported.

[seven 1,368]

2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

 

Correct. Your first time. What would you guess the percentage of those caught would show up on the repeat-offender’s pie chart? 

You had 2 options 

1) admit you didn't know what you were talking about and rethink your position 

2) move the goalposts and ignorantly barrel on 

 

2 is more fun for everyone anyway 

[FWD 297]

22 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

What percentage are actually caught and deported?

The few years prior to 2016, 63% showed up for their first court date.

The Trump admin ended a trial program in 2017 that improved that rate to 90+%. They also use ankle bracelets on a case-by-case basis.

Scaling up ankle bracelets to all asylum seekers with children pending their trial would be a cheap way of making sure they aren't lost in the system without having to take the kids away. But that is not really the point. They want to use these kids as hostages to get the money for the wall. 

[Spankytoes 1,748]

1 minute ago, seven said:

You had 2 options 

1) admit you didn't know what you were talking about and rethink your position 

2) move the goalposts and ignorantly barrel on 

 

2 is more fun for everyone anyway 

Way to avoid answering the question. Can we agree that it’s about the same as the guy that gets pinched for a DWI actually getting pinched in his first time driving drunk? That seems fair.

[Dahobbs 18,332]

5 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

You I can think of nothing better to do than taking kids from their parents? That’s hard to believe 

I thought family camps was pretty reasonable. We have the law and order he wants without the complete evil. He rejected that, first because of cost. But when that didnt fly, he changed to the excuse that evil is necessary as a deterrent. So really, he supports this. He just wants the moral cover of saying it is necessary. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Dahobbs

[seven 1,368]

Keep going, no one can tell you have no idea what you're talking about

[Spankytoes 1,748]

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

No, you dont. 

Actually I do. About 6-7 times in this very thread over the last 3 or so hours.

[David Dennison 19,558]

4 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Way to avoid answering the question. Can we agree that it’s about the same as the guy that gets pinched for a DWI actually getting pinched in his first time driving drunk? That seems fair.

No. It's not that serious.

[J.R. 150]

Any of you fuckers on here politicizing this lamentable issue on either side should kill yourselves if you get the chance. Unless you enjoy falling into the carefully laid trap of Slododan Trump and his sidekick Stephen Geobbels. Only the Nazis among us, and there are a few, thinks this is a good solution. If so, pls identify yourself so we can nominate you to be deported to Sinoloa country and have a worthwhile citizen fill your place. Kudos to those actively fighting for a solution and having the stones to vote out any rep (R or D) who is not doing the same. History will not look kindly on the politics of today. 

[Spankytoes 1,748]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

No. It's not that serious.

See if you think so when you retire and everything you paid towards for the last 50+ years had to be diverted to other areas to cover the billions of dollars annually spent towards the maintenance of people that circumvented a clear process to come here illegally. 

At least it felt good.

[David Dennison 19,558]

2 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

See if you think so when you retire and everything you paid towards for the last 50+ years had to be diverted to other areas to cover the billions of dollars annually spent towards the maintenance of people that circumvented a clear process to come here illegally. 

At least it felt good.

It won't bother me at all.

[Celery Man 21,098]

Boomers came here legally bro

[scottsins 2,047]

Way to avoid answering the question. Can we agree that it’s about the same as the guy that gets pinched for a DWI actually getting pinched in his first time driving drunk? That seems fair.

Sure. And we don’t refer to DWI as a felony because it becomes one once you are convicted multiple times.

[Dahobbs 18,332]

9 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

See if you think so when you retire and everything you paid towards for the last 50+ years had to be diverted to other areas to cover the billions of dollars annually spent towards the maintenance of people that circumvented a clear process to come here illegally. 

At least it felt good.

(1) It didnt happen. (2) who cares if it did? Is your life that bad? 

[F250 29,202]

32 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I like how the party of "unborn children" supported child molester (Roy Moore, Dennis Hastert, etc.) and Kiddie Concentration Camps.....

[Spankytoes 1,748]

3 minutes ago, scottsins said:

 

Sure. And we don’t refer to DWI as a felony because it becomes one once you are convicted multiple times.

 

Just like entering the country illegally does. If you do either multiple times, as you know first hand happens frequently, you raise the stakes on the consequences. I’m not sure that I follow your thought. I’m saying that the vast majority of those detained have been over the border illegally multiple times, sometimes caught sometimes as a first offender by law. Neither situation is good.

In the U.S. one DWI conviction is a Misdemeanor. But, it’s a felony in Canada and affects an American’s ability to travel there. (Albeit, restrictions have been lessened in the last few years) I think that’s pretty bullshit since a DWI never drops from your record. But, that’s Canadian law and I have to follow it if I want to travel there. If I’m turned away, I don’t formulate a way to sneak in to try to circumvent it because I don’t agree with it. I realize the situations are not remotely comparable with people risking life and limb trying to provide a better life, but if we’re chalking this up to jaywalking, a little latitude is deserved in the absurdity of the comparison.

[zork 629]

4 minutes ago, F250 said:

[JimmyJames 12,271]

22 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

See if you think so when you retire and everything you paid towards for the last 50+ years had to be diverted to other areas to cover the billions of dollars annually spent towards the maintenance of people that circumvented a clear process to come here illegally. 

At least it felt good.

I will still die a happy man. Sorry for you that you won’t. Given how little I actually paid towards that, despite making a good income. 

[F250 29,202]

Just now, zork said:

I don't get it. What's the joke?

[zork 629]

Just now, F250 said:

I don't get it. What's the joke?

No joke.  Pretty decent D, on his way to victory.

[Spankytoes 1,748]

11 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

(1) It didnt happen. (2) who cares if it did? Is your life that bad? 

1. Not sure that you know how old I am. Retirement is a few decades away yet and I’m not dumb enough to expect SS to be solvent.

2. People try to get a free meal because the drive-thru girl at Wendy’s forgot their straw. I’m going to say that not directly benefiting from the hundreds of thousands of dollars paid in taxes and subsidiaries in someone’s lifetime because it was partially used to pay for people that don’t even belong here and didn’t contribute may raise an eyebrow.

My life is fine. This policy does not effect me in the slightest and I assume that you are in the same boat.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,350]

Sessions is about to face the Methodist Inquisition:

 

Quote

More than 600 United Methodist clergy and laity say they are bringing church law charges against U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions, a fellow United Methodist, over a zero tolerance U.S. immigration policy — a policy that includes separating children from parents apprehended for crossing into the U.S. illegally.

However, an authority on church history and polity said he’s unaware of a complaint against a lay person ever moving past the district level. 

The group claimed in a June 18 statement that Sessions, a member of a Mobile, Alabama, church, violated Paragraph 2702.3 of the denomination’s Book of Discipline.

Specifically, the group accuses him of child abuse in reference to separating young children from their parents and holding them in mass incarceration facilities; immorality; racial discrimination and “dissemination of doctrines contrary to the established standards of doctrines” of The United Methodist Church.

All are categories listed in 2702.3 as chargeable offenses for a professing member of a local church.

“I really never would have thought I’d be working on charges against anybody in the Methodist connection, much less a lay person,” said the Rev. David Wright, a Pacific Northwest Conference elder and chaplain at the University of Puget Sound in Washington State, and organizer of the effort to charge Sessions.

But Wright said the Trump administration’s zero tolerance policy as enforced by Sessions, combined with Sessions’ use of Romans 13 to justify the policy, led him and others to conclude that more than a statement of protest was needed.

 

 

[Fozzz 152]

I knew Spanky was dumb but I didn't know he was such a heinous piece of shit.  

[Message Board User 12,408]

For the MAGA crowd, it's always about white genocide.  In fact, that should be the campaign slogan in 2020.

 

[Pescado_Rojo 19,590]

I'm gobsmacked that Sessions is a Methodist. I'd have thought Southern Baptist for sure. The Methodist church must be the "power" church in Mobile. 

[XR4ticlone 122]

6 hours ago, kevwun said:

Now that is some fine hyperbole.

I'll take that as there are none.  Which there aren't.

[Fozzz 152]

Surprised XR4 hasn’t quoted the 14 words yet. 

[F250 29,202]

3 minutes ago, zork said:

No joke.  Pretty decent D, on his way to victory.

I guess you could say he summoned the power of Beelzebub thanks to the all the children offerings. You see, he is involved in an ancient Sumerian cult which is how you would answer Aqua Budda's question. Coincidentally, Rand Paul belongs to a maritime cult that demands the worship of Aqua Budda.

[Dahobbs 18,332]

12 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

1. Not sure that you know how old I am. Retirement is a few decades away yet and I’m not dumb enough to expect SS to be solvent.

2. People try to get a free meal because the drive-thru girl at Wendy’s forgot their straw. I’m going to say that not directly benefiting from the hundreds of thousands of dollars paid in taxes and subsidiaries in someone’s lifetime because it was partially used to pay for people that don’t even belong here and didn’t contribute may raise an eyebrow.

My life is fine. This policy does not effect me in the slightest and I assume that you are in the same boat.

I wasnt suggesting anything about your age. No matter your age, everything yoy paid in did not go to entitlements for illegal immigrants, or really anyone. It is simply not an accurate picture of our tax situation and government expenditures. 

[Aqua Buddha 14,807]

Too bad Roy Moore isn't in the Senate.  Then he could personally fly down to the border to check on how the teenage girls were being taken care of.

[XR4ticlone 122]

8 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I disagree with your premise that we can't take in everyone that would love to come here, but even if it is true it does not require separating children from their families. And to be clear, I'm not christian. But, even a heathen like me recognizes that anyone and everyone who justifies this is a terrible person.  And I've read the bible many times (catholic school). I know for certain that Jesus wouldn't approve of this policy or the people who condone it. 

Serious question...are you retarded? 

[Stringer 1,487]

7 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

For the MAGA crowd, it's always about white genocide.  In fact, that should be the campaign slogan in 2020.

 

Jesus, what an asshole

”that’s why they’re always lecturing you about the patriarchy and the evils of the nuclear family.”

fuck does that even mean?  Who does that?  Or is this just more “many people are saying”?

[Gatorubet 30,737]

22 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Or don't break the law.

The law wasn't broken dip-shit.  No matter how much Fox tells you it is so, showing up and asking for asylum is not "breaking the law"   Jesus, listen to some outside sources.

[Anastasis 23,723]

47 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I thought family camps was pretty reasonable. We have the law and order he wants without the complete evil. He rejected that, first because of cost. But when that didnt fly, he changed to the excuse that evil is necessary as a deterrent. So really, he supports this. He just wants the moral cover of saying it is necessary. 

I agree with the family camps being a somewhat better stance, but let's be real. If the Trump administration did that the outrage would be equally feverish. OMG they are building dedicated facilities to lock up entire families in concentration camps!!11!

This has been my issue from election day + 1.  The hysterical reaction to everything Trump does (OMG he dumped out the fish food! da tweets!) washes out the real deplorable shit that needs to be confronted head on. When an environment of constant information chaos is created, shit don't get processed by the average American. Trump thrives on exactly that, and the media has played right along from day one. This board can't even track the real outrages vs the manufactured ones, but you people realize that every poster here, even the total fucking retards, are operating at the right end of the intelligence bell curve. Whatever. Pour another one and watch a rudderless political party commit suicide, hoping something better comes out the other side. 

[Dahobbs 18,332]

6 minutes ago, XR4ticlone said:

Serious question...are you retarded? 

I would love america to be the whole planet. It isnt realistic or feasible, but I think the world would be better for it. At least, I did. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

 

[Dahobbs 18,332]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I agree with the family camps being a somewhat better stance, but let's be real. If the Trump administration did that the outrage would be equally feverish. OMG they are building dedicated facilities to lock up entire families in concentration camps!!11!

This has been my issue from election day + 1.  The hysterical reaction to everything Trump does (OMG he dumped out the fish food! da tweets!) washes out the real deplorable shit that needs to be confronted head on. When an environment of constant information chaos is created, shit don't get processed by the average American. Trump thrives on exactly that, and the media has played right along from day one. This board can't even track the real outrages vs the manufactured ones, but you people realize that every poster here, even the total fucking retards, are operating at the right end of the intelligence bell curve. Whatever. Pour another one and watch a rudderless political party commit suicide, hoping something better comes out the other side. 

Seriously, fuck that. Dont you dare try and play both sides and legitimize evil. I dont care about your hypothetical world or your bullshit political beliefs. I care about not pandering to evil. That is all this is. 

[Spankytoes 1,748]

12 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I wasnt suggesting anything about your age. No matter your age, everything yoy paid in did not go to entitlements for illegal immigrants, or really anyone. It is simply not an accurate picture of our tax situation and government expenditures. 

#2 sentence 2. Let me know when you find it.

[Anastasis 23,723]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

Seriously, fuck that. Dont you dare try and play both sides and legitimize evil. I dont care about your hypothetical world or your bullshit political beliefs. I care about not pandering to evil. That is all this is. 

What the fuck are you talking about? 

[Anastasis 23,723]

I take it back.  Maybe some posters here are actually on the left side of the distribution. 

[InkaUtexas 26,909]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Correct, immigration from Mexico is down. But Central American immigration is up. 

 

The number of immigrants in the United States from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras rose by 25% from 2007 to 2015, in contrast to more modest growth of the country’s overall foreign-born population and a decline from neighboring Mexico.

During these same years, the total U.S. immigrant population increased by 10%, while the number of U.S. Mexican immigrants decreased by 6%, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of U.S. Census Bureau data.

 

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2017/12/07/rise-in-u-s-immigrants-from-el-salvador-guatemala-and-honduras-outpaces-growth-from-elsewhere/

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

12 minutes ago, XR4ticlone said:

Serious question...are you retarded? 

No I think he's just 15.

[Dahobbs 18,332]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

What the fuck are you talking about? 

Read what you wrote. Your stance is that even if this bad, the "left" would have been outraged no matter what, so it really doesnt matter. I agree with the first part. That is political reality. The second part is stupid. This is evil. 

[Dahobbs 18,332]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

No I think he's just 15.

And you're clever. Both those statements are equally true.