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DACA, immigration reform whatever

hayden_horn

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mchookem
mchookem

bitching about immigrants not paying income tax while simultaneously bragging about paying immigrants with cash so they can avoid paying income tax. i did not have that on my bingo card.  

TSipper
TSipper

We owe this girl and her family nothing. I do not care if they are fleeing violence, that is not the responsibility of this country. 7 billion people on this planet, is it our job to take all of them

Chrispy
Chrispy

Spin it however you wish, this man forced his daughter into the river, not our policies. 

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6,171

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

The fact is that there is an entire generation of Americans coming of age at a time when we are the bad guys, unequivocally.  We are going to have to look at post WWII Germany to figure out how to move forward.

This is also something that is tragic. Our youth are seeing us be assholes to our fellow human beings and they are taking this in. Not good at all. 

I will say this about the Germans. They are still, almost three quarters of a century later, very loathe to speak about that period in German history. I think that is a mistake. We have to own what we have become as a country and denounce it every chance we get and once Dotard is gone we need to educate every generation that follows about how to treat people. We need to use what Dotard did as the reasoning behind what you do not do to your fellow man. We cannot repeat this era again if we survive it.

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cactusflinthead

cactusflinthead 27,601

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Posted
22 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

We are not in a good place as a country. This is absolutely horrific to see the United States being associated in any way, shape, or form with the term concentration camp. 

Folks we have completely lost our way thanks to this asshole and his racist supporters. We are all human beings and anyone that can't see how awful it is what we are doing does not deserve to live here. If you are still supporting Dotard while seeing what we are doing to refugees just do the rest of us a favor and drive to Hoover Dam and jump. This is not just unAmerican and against all of our values, this is just fucking cruel. Hurts my heart to see what we have become. 

If you haven't heard yet the cruelty is the point. They want it to be so undesirable to be here that they stay there. It's not any more complicated than that. Who cares if they die? That's going to send a message. 

That's what we're up against. Miller gives zero fucks. Reince Priebus and his post mortem report on making inroads into the Latino community were summarily dismissed. They don't fucking care. At all.

What got Trump momentum way back when there were 12+ candidates?

A Stupid Fucking Wall. Fear of a brown planet. 

And so here we are. Taking rosaries away and treating them worse than dogs at the pound. 

It's a goddamn disgrace. 

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6,171

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, cactusflinthead said:

If you haven't heard yet the cruelty is the point. They want it to be so undesirable to be here that they stay there. It's not any more complicated than that. Who cares if they die? That's going to send a message. 

That's what we're up against. Miller gives zero fucks. Reince Priebus and his post mortem report on making inroads into the Latino community were summarily dismissed. They don't fucking care. At all.

What got Trump momentum way back when there were 12+ candidates?

A Stupid Fucking Wall. Fear of a brown planet. 

And so here we are. Taking rosaries away and treating them worse than dogs at the pound. 

It's a goddamn disgrace. 

Cruelty being the point is the worst of it. It is showing the entire world that America is no longer a beacon of freedom. We closed that chapter on our history. This is a very dark chapter that historians will be denouncing for centuries to come. 

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6,171

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Posted (edited)

I want to say I realize that most of this country does not see the diversity that I encounter each day here. I get on the subway and I see people from all over the world. I see people from Latin America, South America, Europe, the Far East, Down Under, all parts of Africa and the Caribbean. It is intertwined in the culture here and it is a beautiful thing. 

The parts of our country who do not embrace the intertwining of ethnicities and having people of color standing equal with their white counterparts is just terrible. We are not a nation of whites only anymore. We have every shade of the rainbow and it's time to embrace our diversity instead of hating it. 

Edited by UpperWestside
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cactusflinthead

cactusflinthead 27,601

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I certainly hope so. I'm not ready to get on the ledge and share that bottle with Brisket just yet. 

I still have some hope that this latest episode of "hate the new guy" will abate like the ones before it. My biggest concern is my own cynicism. That the phone calls I'm going to make are pissing in the wind. That the dollars I sent to HIAS will go up in smoke while they languish in squalor. 

Fuck it. Gonna do it anyway. I'll die on my feet. 

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F250

F250 28,788

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Posted
8 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

It is showing the entire world that America is no longer a beacon of freedom. We closed that chapter on our history. This is a very dark chapter that historians will be denouncing for centuries to come.  

We didn't close the chapter on that history because we never really had that history. That shit is a myth. America mistreated the Muslims, Catholics, women, gays, communists, Japanese, Chinese, Poles, Italians, Jews, Irish, Blacks, Native Americans and many others. Let's not pretend that the United States was something it never was, that is just an ideal we struggle to work towards. It has and always will be a grind to work towards a better future.

 

 

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Js1

Js1 85,440

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Fuck this shit. What a travesty, but don't you fucking dare call it what it is: a god damned concentration camp. 

But how could you not? Republicans are concentrating all their efforts on squashing that label. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,161

Posted
Posted
The fact is that there is an entire generation of Americans coming of age at a time when we are the bad guys, unequivocally.  We are going to have to look at post WWII Germany to figure out how to move forward.

I know our history has always been littered with atrocious shit.  At least on the home front, in this instance we're taking massive steps backwards to get to an evil place.

I just finished visiting the museum of German History in Berlin. The section discussing the rise of National Socialism is unflinching. It is the stark, honest, introspective story of a nation that gave into its worst nature.

 

I read every narrative, every translated document. And I wanted to fucking vomit. Seriously, we walked out and all just shook our fucking heads. It was like reading today’s fucking newspapers. Here was some text that jumped out:

 

e23e024965dd9bbc13c27e580b089f8e.jpg

 

“Democrats are the problem. They don’t care about crime and want illegal immigrants, no matter how bad they may be, to pour into and infest our Country, like MS-13.”

 

And hell, read the next section on deporting Poles and “provisional camps.”

 

That was 1938. Not exactly the beginning of the shit.

 

Congratulations. We are the nazis now. I’m going to suggest that the time for simple peaceful “resistance” is coming to an end. We’re already all guilty of being complicit.

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retread

retread 2,951

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Posted

Obama's Family Case Management Program cost the govt. $36 per day per family. Very high success rates for showing up for court dates. Canceled by DOTUS.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/obama-era-pilot-program-kept-asylum-seeking-migrant-families-together-n885896

Quote

According to the Inspector General report, overall compliance in the five cities where the pilot was launched was 99 percent for ICE check-ins and appointments, and 100 percent for attendance in court hearings. Just 2 percent of participants absconded during the process.

ICE said it canceled the program because it was too expensive compared to other monitoring methods, and because it did not remove enough asylum seekers from the U.S.

 

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elfenix

elfenix 34,328

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Posted
1 hour ago, retread said:

 

 

1 hour ago, retread said:

Obama's Family Case Management Program cost the govt. $36 per day per family. Very high success rates for showing up for court dates. Canceled by DOTUS.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/obama-era-pilot-program-kept-asylum-seeking-migrant-families-together-n885896

 

 

$36 per day is too high!  20x that funneled to our private prison contractor friends who then bundle nice check to us is just right!

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F250

F250 28,788

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Posted
32 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

A 12-year-old talks about being locked up in a freezing room with her younger sister. No soap, no bed, no toothpaste.

In 2014

All part of Obama's plan to deter people fleeing economic devastation and gang/political violence.

AMERICA!

 

But Obama wasn't so brazen about violating the rights of children. He kept it on the down low so people wouldn't get upset.

Seriously, this problem goes back further than Trump and simply electing a regular human being as POTUS isn't going to change things.

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,218

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, F250 said:

Seriously, this problem goes back further than Trump and simply electing a regular human being as POTUS isn't going to change things.

Yep, we need radical changes and leaders who want to fight the established powers. Go-along-to-get-along candidates aren't going to change anything.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,218

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Posted
Just now, wildcat09 said:

CBP and ICE need to be abolished and their leadership and a large percentage of their agents need to be prosecuted in the Hague.  

As Mike Gravel says, "Push 'em down the stairs."

If we pursue policies that increase the safety and economic well-being of South and Central America, we won't have any immigration problems from those countries! :D

It's almost like we could fix this "problem" without ANY inhumanity at all!

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28,791

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Obama is humane and worked to fix the problems that occurred under his watch. Watch out for the people who criticize Obama for both his bad treatment of detainees and his policy of not detaining them. You can always spot the side of bullshit because they're the ones advancing contradictions. 

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Nivek

Nivek 16,946

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Obama is humane and worked to fix the problems that occurred under his watch. Watch out for the people who criticize Obama for both his bad treatment of detainees and his policy of not detaining them. You can always spot the side of bullshit because they're the ones advancing contradictions. 

The whataboutism is pretty astounding. One man encourages abuses and works to institute pain from top down. The other did not. Both had bad shit happen under their watch but only one celebrates it and makes it policy.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,161

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Posted
Death isn’t my bag, but deportations, well that’s a different story. 

1 - you lie.
2 - even if you don’t, you’ll get there. It’s the way of the ethnonationalist. You like to think you’re unique. You’re not. You’re just as pathetic and evil as those who came before you.

And history will judge you similarly. And you know it. I hope you get to experience your kids explaining to your grandkids someday why they don’t spend much time with grandpa...because he’s an evil shitbag. Your pain and frustration will be a good moment for society.
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,161

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Posted
Death isn’t my bag, but deportations, well that’s a different story. 

1 - you lie.
2 - even if you don’t, you’ll get there. It’s the way of the ethnonationalist. You like to think you’re unique. You’re not. You’re just as pathetic and evil as those who came before you.

And history will judge you similarly. And you know it. I hope you get to experience your kids explaining to your grandkids someday why they don’t spend much time with grandpa...because he’s an evil shitbag. Your pain and frustration will be a good moment for society.
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,218

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Posted
43 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Obama is humane and worked to fix the problems that occurred under his watch.

He "worked to fix the problems" (vague) and "occurred under his watch" (phrase to absolve him of responsibility, makes it seem like all this just fell randomly out of the sky, like "officer-involved shooting").

The truth and reality is that, under Barack Obama, we kept children in terrible conditions for the crime of trying to escape poverty and violence and we did it because Obama wanted to deter the migration.

------------------------------------------------------

Free said he brought up those centers during his brief conversation with Obama in 2015.

"It's wrong. And it's going to be a stain on your legacy," Free recalled telling the president. The lawyer said Obama's response, as he remembered it, " shook me to my core."

"He stopped moving on to the next person in the rope line and looked back at me. I'd gotten his attention," Free said. "He turned back, looked at me and [asked,] 'Are you an immigration lawyer?' 'Yes.'"

...

"I'll tell you what we can't have," Obama said, according to Free. "It's these parents sending their kids here on a dangerous journey and putting their lives at risk."

------------------------------------------------------

Human rights groups were calling it out at the time.

Barack Obama is a better person than Donald Trump.

But we need to critically analyze every powerful leader we have and be honest about what they did and do.

13 minutes ago, Nivek said:

The whataboutism is pretty astounding. One man encourages abuses and works to institute pain from top down. The other did not. Both had bad shit happen under their watch but only one celebrates it and makes it policy.

What does a freezing child stuffed into a cell with 12 other people care about how the man who put her there feels about it?

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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 12,989

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Recent incidents of Trump officials being confronted in public for their role in the administration’s separation and imprisonment of immigrant families have driven renewed concern about the lack of civility in U.S. politics. The Onionpresents tips for staying civil in a debate about child prisons.

Avoid unkind generalizations like equating the jailing of ethnic minorities with some malevolent form of fascism.

 

Consider that we all have different perspectives stemming from things like age, ethnicity, or level of racism.

Recall that violently rejecting a tyrannical government goes against everything our forefathers believed in.

Find common ground by recognizing that some kids are huge assholes.

Make sure any protests are peaceful, silent, and completely out of sight of anyone who could actually affect government policy.

Give your political opponents the benefit of the doubt by letting this play out for 20 years and seeing if it gets any better on its own.

Realize that every pressing social issue is solved through civil discourse if you ignore virtually all of human history.

Remind yourself that you’re just two people having a cocktail at the same D.C. party and that politics is a game to you.

Avoid painting with a broad brush. Not everyone in favor of zero-tolerance immigration wants to see children in cages—it’s more likely that they just don’t care.

 

 

https://www.theonion.com/tips-for-staying-civil-while-debating-child-prisons-1827147411

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Chrispy

Chrispy 132

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Posted
21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


1 - you lie.
2 - even if you don’t, you’ll get there. It’s the way of the ethnonationalist. You like to think you’re unique. You’re not. You’re just as pathetic and evil as those who came before you.

And history will judge you similarly. And you know it. I hope you get to experience your kids explaining to your grandkids someday why they don’t spend much time with grandpa...because he’s an evil shitbag. Your pain and frustration will be a good moment for society.

Naw, I’ll never experience that. Life has always been very good and I expect the same for my offspring. I’m sure they’ll be just as against illegal immigration if I raise them correctly.  

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18,936

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Chrispy said:

Naw, I’ll never experience that. Life has always been very good and I expect the same for my offspring. I’m sure they’ll be just as against illegal immigration if I raise them correctly.  

In what ways do you make sure you aren't encouraging undocumented workers in the United States?

Remember. You live in Texas. In the United States of America.

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F250

F250 28,788

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Posted
3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Except there are a whole lot more suffering right now.

Another Blow to the Obama Administration’s Family Detention Policy Just Happened

On Tuesday, U.S. District Court Judge M. Dolly Gee issued a long-awaited ruling that gave former President Obama’s “family detention” practices the smackdown they deserve. “Family detention” was the Obama administration’s euphemism for its practice of detaining Central American mothers with their children in inhumane conditions for lengthy periods of time in violation of the Flores Settlement Agreement: a Clinton-era settlement of a Reagan-era lawsuit regarding the mistreatment of children in federal immigration detention.

After Judge Gee’s July 24, 2015 decision finding that the Obama Administration had violated the Flores Settlement Agreement by mistreating immigrant children, the government appealed. The Ninth Circuit affirmed Judge Gee’s original decision as to the treatment of immigrant children under the age of 18 on July 16, 2016. However, numerous allegations of mistreatment of children in federal immigration detention continued, and the Center for Constitutional Law filed a motion to enforce the settlement agreement.

Judge Gee found that the government continues to detain children in “deplorable and unsanitary conditions” at Customs and Border Protection stations in the Rio Grande Valley Sector—essentially a violation of the agreement. The mistreatment of children in immigration detention proven by the Plaintiffs includes lack of adequate food (some of the food made the children ill), lack of clean drinking water, unsanitary conditions (testimony was presented that up to 50 people were forced to use an open toilet in one room), extremely cold temperatures of detention cells (hieleras)/some CBP officers who purposely made the cells colder to retaliate against crying children, and impossible sleeping conditions, all in flagrant violation of CBP policies and standards.

Judge Gee also held that the federal government has not properly made continuous efforts to release minor children, and is required to make individual determinations as to whether each child should continue to be detained. The government had argued that it lacked the institutional resources to evaluate placements of children; however, since the federal government agreed to do those evaluations in 1997, Judge Gee was unpersuaded. The government also argued that it should be allowed to continue to place immigrant children in secure, unlicensed facilities despite Judge Gee’s prior 2015 order because the states do not license immigration facilities; in response, Judge Gee ruled that children simply may not be held in those facilities.

Last, but not least, the Plaintiffs presented evidence that children were being detained for periods in excess of the permitted maximum of 20 days, and cited children who were detained five weeks, eight months and 13 months, respectively. Philip Miller, Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Executive Associate Director of Enforcement and Removal Operations testified in a deposition that the government measures the length of stay for detainees who have been released (and therefore does not include information on detainees that are still currently detained, no matter how long they may have been in detention).

Judge Gee ordered the government to identify and propose a “Juvenile Coordinator” to report directly to the Court regarding the government’s compliance with its obligations toward immigrant children in detention. If, in a year, the government is still not in substantial compliance, the Court will consider the appointment of an independent monitor.

https://www.latinorebels.com/2017/06/29/another-blow-to-the-obama-administrations-family-detention-policy-just-happened/

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Chrispy

Chrispy 132

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Posted
2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You always have an option. You just have to do a little work.

Uh huh, I’ll just explain to my wife and kids that daddy will be gone a few weeks hunting down whomever picked his orange. I sure hope you didn’t procreate David. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18,936

Posted
Posted
Just now, Chrispy said:

Uh huh, I’ll just explain to my wife and kids that daddy will be gone a few weeks hunting down whomever picked his orange. I sure hope you didn’t procreate David. 

Oh, so you really don't do whatever it takes to discourage undocumented immigration.

Cool.

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F250

F250 28,788

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Posted

Our immigration law is a festering pustule that finally caused a systemic infection.

 

ACLU Sues Obama Administration For Detaining Migrant Women and Children

 

Anyone remember Hutto during the Bush administration?

Half the detainees at the T. Don Hutto Residential Center, a privately run prison in Texas, are children.

 

"The simple fact is that we must not — and we will not — surrender our borders to those who wish to exploit our history of compassion and justice."
- President Bill Clinton, New York Times, July 28, 1993

Shit went down hill after Bill Clinton signed the IIRIRA.

https://cmsny.org/publications/jmhs-iirira-to-trump/

 

 

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