DACA, immigration reform whatever

[WhatTheBuck 28775]

1 hour ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Laura Bush: Separating migrant children from their parents is immoral.

https://www.businessinsider.com/laura-bush-calls-separation-of-migrant-children-from-parents-immoral-2018-6?fbclid=IwAR1PoFsZCslhxoklH3qW8k9SrKbdR176dHp4CvPNN7PblqdUJgPULGB6VXs

So is torture, Laura, as well as locking people away for life without charging them with a crime. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Laura Bush wrote that over a year ago.

[hpslugga 4058]

Something about a broken clock, twice a day, yada yada yada

[ChickenSandwich 9828]

 

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by ChickenSandwich

[tantric superman 4667]

6 hours ago, slorch said:

IDGAF, nor do we owe them anything.  The notion that we do because they made the trek is bullshit.

Your arguments amount to I don't give a fuck, somewhere, someone's mother is a whore.

Edited July 3, 2019 by tantric superman

[Js1 85276]

3 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Your arguments amount to I don't give a fuck, somewhere, someone's mother is a whore.

I doubt Slorch's mom was a whore.  Just probably really easy. 

[Brisketexan 105066]

I doubt Slorch's mom was a whore.  Just probably really easy. 

Well, she produced a brainless twatwaffle, so she owes the world an apology at least.

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, she produced a brainless twatwaffle, so she owes the world an apology at least.

My guess is she was doing meth while he was in utero.  

[Fozzz 152]

This is a great interview with Manuel Zeleya on the Honduran coup that occurred with the support of the Obama administration.  The coup and the events that followed have just a little bit to do with why so many people are currently fleeing that country. 

 

[Js1 85276]

8 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

My guess is she was doing meth while he was in utero.  

Don't eat Allsups burritos while preggo. 

[David Dennison 18850]

8 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

This is a great interview with Manuel Zeleya on the Honduran coup that occurred with the support of the Obama administration.  The coup and the events that followed have just a little bit to do with why so many people are currently fleeing that country. 

 

How did the United States back the coup?

[Fozzz 152]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

How did the United States back the coup?

You should watch the interview.  The Intercept also had an investigative report in 2017 describing how the US encouraged the coup and sabotaged Zelaya's restoration.  Hilldawg likely used Lanny Davis as a backchannel for working with Micheletti on developing the phony deal for returning Zelaya to power.  The US then supported the fraudulent election (the UN boycotted the election) that was held once the deal fell apart.  The US also blocked an OAS resolution requiring Zelaya's restoration prior to the election and maintained aid to Honduras following the coup even though this is prohibited under US law.   

[tantric superman 4667]

Anya Parampil has something going on.

[David Dennison 18850]

4 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

You should watch the interview.  The Intercept also had an investigative report in 2017 describing how the US encouraged the coup and sabotaged Zelaya's restoration.  Hilldawg likely used Lanny Davis as a backchannel for working with Micheletti on developing the phony deal for returning Zelaya to power.  The US then supported the fraudulent election (the UN boycotted the election) that was held once the deal fell apart.  The US also blocked an OAS resolution requiring Zelaya's restoration prior to the election and maintained aid to Honduras following the coup even though this is prohibited under US law.   

I watched it. Do you have any non-interested sources that support your position that the United States backed the coup itself or are you just criticizing (rightly so) its actions after the coup?

[tantric superman 4667]

To me this whole issue reminds me of what corporations try to do when they have ethics policies.  Pretend that they actually want to be ethical.

The way we are treating the folks trying to get in (applicants for employment) is unethical.  It's such a clear and obvious observation.  How we treat others in the community (our relationship with Mexico and Central America) are similar ethical issues -- arguably unrelated to the business decision of who we want to ultimately let in.

On whether or no the company wants to actually hire and employ people, that's a business decision, and I don't have a problem with either side making the argument about what works best for us. 

The right seems to be absolutely ignoring the ethical issue, and the left seems uninterested in the business decisions until the ethical issue is resolved to their unilateral satisfaction.

I sympathize with the left's focus, but the problem is that both sides need to treat both issues as important.

[Fozzz 152]

Just now, David Dennison said:

I watched it. Do you have any non-interested sources that support your position that the United States backed the coup itself or are you just criticizing (rightly so) its actions after the coup?

I wouldn't characterize the US actions following the removal of Zelaya as simply "its actions after the coup" as the coup government was clearly not going to maintain power and the US needed a solution that resolved the ongoing crisis while keeping the democratically elected President out of power.  The US worked directly with the coup government to make that happen in spite of the violence unleashed by the government against its own citizens before and during the election. 

As for prior to Zelaya's kidnapping, US military officials met with the  coup plotters late the night prior to the coup, so the US was aware of what was to come and did nothing to put a stop to it or warn Zelaya - indicating that the officials gave the plotters the blessing they needed to move forward.  Again though, given that crisis that racked Honduras following the kidnapping, preventing Zelaya's return to power following the coup was as important in altering the government of Honduras as anything that occurred prior to Zelaya's kidnapping.  

[Captainant 27637]

20 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I sympathize with the left's focus, but the problem is that both sides need to treat both issues as important

I didn't realize anastasia had a sock

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20392]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Laura Bush wrote that over a year ago.

 

Does the passing of time make it less of an abomination?

[Cacti 191]

5 hours ago, horncyclist said:

Now, imagine the 100,000 day were white.

This thread wouldn’t even exist if the detainees were white. I know you’re not naive enough to think that AOC, Torres, Castro, Barragán, Aguilar and other members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus would have shown the same concern/outrage if the occupants were Eastern European.

[tantric superman 4667]

6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I didn't realize anastasia had a sock

She sounds like good people (on both sides).

[ChickenSandwich 9828]

35 minutes ago, Cacti said:

This thread wouldn’t even exist if the detainees were white. I know you’re not naive enough to think that AOC, Torres, Castro, Barragán, Aguilar and other members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus would have shown the same concern/outrage if the occupants were Eastern European.

Lol, yes Hugo, if they were all white Russians (yum) then we wouldn't have any issue with 3,333 people showing up daily.  This take is just intellectually bankrupt and serves no purpose but to avoid conversation and screee Racist!!

Lets find one days worth of asylum applicants who are white (over 52 countries to choose from) and drop them at the Austin Bus Station.  Because they are white there will be no logistical problems providing food, shelter, medical care, education and access to legal representation.  I know a building that can house 100.

The massive number of applicants is the problem, not the facilities operating at 500% capacity, they are overwhelmed.

[David Dennison 18850]

1 hour ago, Fozzz said:

I wouldn't characterize the US actions following the removal of Zelaya as simply "its actions after the coup" as the coup government was clearly not going to maintain power and the US needed a solution that resolved the ongoing crisis while keeping the democratically elected President out of power.  The US worked directly with the coup government to make that happen in spite of the violence unleashed by the government against its own citizens before and during the election. 

As for prior to Zelaya's kidnapping, US military officials met with the  coup plotters late the night prior to the coup, so the US was aware of what was to come and did nothing to put a stop to it or warn Zelaya - indicating that the officials gave the plotters the blessing they needed to move forward.  Again though, given that crisis that racked Honduras following the kidnapping, preventing Zelaya's return to power following the coup was as important in altering the government of Honduras as anything that occurred prior to Zelaya's kidnapping.  

Can you cite something that confirms this?

[Fozzz 152]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Can you cite something that confirms this?

It's from the investigative report The Intercept and CEPR published in 2017.

http://cepr.net/press-center/press-releases/investigation-reveals-new-details-of-us-role-in-2009-honduras-military-coup

[David Dennison 18850]

Just now, Fozzz said:

It's from the investigative report The Intercept and CEPR published in 2017.

http://cepr.net/press-center/press-releases/investigation-reveals-new-details-of-us-role-in-2009-honduras-military-coup

So one general met with Honduran military officials who were lobbying for support in Washington.

That's something. I'm not sure it's the administration backing a coup, but it is something.

[Brisketexan 105066]

This thread wouldn’t even exist if the detainees were white. I know you’re not naive enough to think that AOC, Torres, Castro, Barragán, Aguilar and other members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus would have shown the same concern/outrage if the occupants were Eastern European.

Lol, yes Hugo, if they were all white Russians (yum) then we wouldn't have any issue with 3,333 people showing up daily.  This take is just intellectually bankrupt and serves no purpose but to avoid conversation and screee Racist!!
Lets find one days worth of asylum applicants who are white (over 52 countries to choose from) and drop them at the Austin Bus Station.  Because they are white there will be no logistical problems providing food, shelter, medical care, education and access to legal representation.  I know a building that can house 100.
The massive number of applicants is the problem, not the facilities operating at 500% capacity, they are overwhelmed.

You know, the self-owning here is really fucking funny.

Do y’all have any idea what the genesis is of the modern asylum system and treaties? Any idea at all? Let’s go back to post-war Europe....with 7-11 million displaced persons.

Just a little bit of the story:

“The United States was late to accept displaced persons, which led to considerable activism for a change in policy. Earl G. Harrison, who had previously reported on conditions in the camps to President Harry S. Truman led the Citizens Committee on Displaced Persons that attracted dignitaries such as Eleanor Roosevelt, David Dubinsky, Marshall Field, A. Philip Randolph, and others. Meeting considerable opposition in the United States Congress with a bias against Central and Eastern European intellectuals and Jews, The American program was the most idealistic and expansive of the Allied programs but also the most notoriously bureaucratic.
After World War II ended in 1945, there were 7 to 11 million displaced people, or refugees, still living in Germany, Austria and Italy. To have some of these refugees come to the United States, Truman asked Congress to enact legislation. Truman’s administration, along with a lobbying group for refugees, Citizens Committee on Displaced Persons, favored allowing European refugees from World War II to enter the United States. Truman signed the first Displaced Persons Act on June 25, 1948. It allowed 200,000 displaced persons to enter the country within the next two years. However, they exceeded the quota by extending the act for another two years, which doubled the admission of refugees into the United States to 415,000. From 1949 to 1952, about half the 900,000 immigrants that entered the United States were displaced persons.[11] In order to qualify for American visas, only those that were in internment camps by the end of 1945 were eligible. The displaced persons that were trying to come to America had to have a sponsor and a place to live before their arrival, a guarantee that they would not displace American workers and, even more preferable, was that they had a relative that is an American citizen. Voluntary social service agencies, created by religious and ethnic groups, helped the refugees settle into American life.[12] Of the DPs the US admitted from eastern Europe between 1941 and 1957, 137,450 were European Jews.[13]”

That’s from back when we were a decent country. You clearly don’t mean THAT country when you say “make America great again”...but that’s clearly our zenith.

[Fozzz 152]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

So one general met with Honduran military officials who were lobbying for support in Washington.

That's something. I'm not sure it's the administration backing a coup, but it is something.

There was undoubtedly more involvement but surprisingly conversations between US officials and Honduran military officials are not entirely within the public domain.  A whistleblower who formerly worked with the CHDS filed a complaint with the IG of the DoD where he alleged that he was ordered to leave senior staff meetings between Honduran colonels and US congressmen when the subject of "ways to cover up staff support for the illegal overthrow of an elected government" were brought up.  This is how the former US ambassador to Honduras, who was involved in these meetings, described the situation:

Quote

The article says Cresencio Arcos, a former U.S. ambassador to Honduras who was working at the Center at the time the coup occurred, received an angry call from a Congressional staffer who had met with the Honduran colonels. The colonels purportedly told the staffer they had the center’s support. Arcos confronted LaPlante and the center’s director, Richard Downie, telling them, “We cannot have this sort of thing happening, where we’re supporting coups.”  

https://progressive.org/dispatches/no-good-deed-unpunished-whistleblower-martin-edwin-andersen-180713/

Further, it is unlikely the plotters would have proceeded unless they were confident that the US would not demand the restoration of Zelaya, which is precisely what happened.  Indeed, the US was the one state that worked with the coup government on a plan to legitimate the post-coup government via an election that barred Zelaya.

[4th&Five 41514]

 

[David Dennison 18850]

6 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

There was undoubtedly more involvement but surprisingly conversations between US officials and Honduran military officials are not entirely within the public domain.  A whistleblower who formerly worked with the CHDS filed a complaint with the IG of the DoD where he alleged that he was ordered to leave senior staff meetings between Honduran colonels and US congressmen when the subject of "ways to cover up staff support for the illegal overthrow of an elected government" were brought up.  This is how the former US ambassador to Honduras, who was involved in these meetings, described the situation:

https://progressive.org/dispatches/no-good-deed-unpunished-whistleblower-martin-edwin-andersen-180713/

Further, it is unlikely the plotters would have proceeded unless they were confident that the US would not demand the restoration of Zelaya, which is precisely what happened.  Indeed, the US was the one state that worked with the coup government on a plan to legitimate the post-coup government via an election that barred Zelaya.

Cool. That's a whole lot of conjecture, but you're probably right.

[retread 2951]

 

[wildcat09 29346]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, she produced a brainless twatwaffle, so she owes the world an apology at least.

I can't imagine a better argument in support of abortion than simply pointing out that Slorch exists.

[atomheartbevo 89628]

3 hours ago, Fozzz said:

This is a great interview with Manuel Zeleya on the Honduran coup that occurred with the support of the Obama administration.  The coup and the events that followed have just a little bit to do with why so many people are currently fleeing that country. 

 

Thank you for introducing us to Anya Parampil

[atomheartbevo 89628]

10 hours ago, lemonlime said:

How the fuck does what we do or do not owe migrants have anything to do with treating human beings with basic decency. Not even kindness. Just not abject cruelty.

We don't treat other human beings as human because we owe them. We do it (or don't) because that's what decent people do (or evil people ignore)

He's the asshole who, when the ship is sinking, hops in an empty lifeboat and starts rowing away, yelling "FUCK YOU, I GOT MINE".

We don't need to give these kids $80,000 beds, but we can spare enough for the necessities.

[atomheartbevo 89628]

Now I remember where I first saw Anya, when she confused Tucker.

 

[atomheartbevo 89628]

This will be a fun event tomorrow.  I'm sure Gov. Hot Wheels and Sen. Cruisin' have lots to say about it on twitter.

https://www.facebook.com/events/358255055087114/

Protest at the Capital.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

We don’t need to keep these people in detention facilities for long periods of time.  Ankle monitors and a contact for a caseworker after a preliminary background check would be fine.  We would save a fortune. 

[retread 2951]

But then we couldn't put 80 ppl in a room with a capacity of 40.

[Pescado_Rojo 19415]

The cruelty is the point

[4th&Five 41514]

So easy to fix!

 

[David Dennison 18850]

4 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

The cruelty is the point

It is and it's why people who support this policy are scum.

[zork 629]

3 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

The cruelty is the point

which is more cruel:

crowded facilities that have running water, free food, free electricity providing climate control, free silver blankets, free medical care

or

Half of the asylum cases historically since 2000 have to go back anyway.  why not reduce the numbers to the levels of capacity as discussed just previously, no overcrowding.  give the rest a number and let them get their own lodging, food, toothbrush, etc, back across the border till their number is called in the order it was received.  They could fire up TEX again and have him direct them through the process whereby they call to check on their availability of seats/beds in the facilities and they wait till they get their turn.

TEX:  "goodbye and good luck"

 

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

You leave Tex out of this you cowardly old racist. 

[David Dennison 18850]

1 minute ago, zork said:

which is more cruel:

crowded facilities that have running water, free food, free electricity providing climate control, free silver blankets, free medical care

or

Half of the asylum cases historically since 2000 have to go back anyway.  why not reduce the numbers to the levels of capacity as discussed just previously, no overcrowding.  give the rest a number and let them get their own lodging, food, toothbrush, etc, back across the border till their number is called in the order it was received.  They could fire up TEX again and have him direct them through the process whereby they call to check on their availability of seats/beds in the facilities and they wait till they get their turn.

TEX:  "goodbye and good luck"

 

Apologize for it all you want. You support cruelty for cruelty's sake. 

I wonder what side you would be on in 1933 Germany.

[lemonlime 5503]

Apologize for it all you want. You support cruelty for cruelty's sake. 
I wonder what side you would be on in 1933 Germany.

I don't.

[Brisketexan 105066]

which is more cruel:
crowded facilities that have running water, free food, free electricity providing climate control, free silver blankets, free medical care
or

Half of the asylum cases historically since 2000 have to go back anyway.  why not reduce the numbers to the levels of capacity as discussed just previously, no overcrowding.  give the rest a number and let them get their own lodging, food, toothbrush, etc, back across the border till their number is called in the order it was received.  They could fire up TEX again and have him direct them through the process whereby they call to check on their availability of seats/beds in the facilities and they wait till they get their turn.
TEX:  "goodbye and good luck"
 

You literally support a policy of using cruelty and violations of human rights to achieve a policy goal. By doing so, you support crimes against humanity, and terrorism. Both definitions apply. Congratulations, you’ve helped make the US a rogue state.

Apologize for it all you want. You support cruelty for cruelty's sake. 
I wonder what side you would be on in 1933 Germany.

Stop wondering. These guys thing the nazis has some damned good ideas, “they just went too far.” (Note, that’s actually something multiple trumpkins have said).

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

29 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

So easy to fix!

 

By calling his concentration camps "far safer conditions" than where the people came from he's basically admitting that they have valid claims for asylum.  What a fucking idiot.  

[Pescado_Rojo 19415]

At this point I'm ready to bypass the SDNY and NY AG and ship these fuckers straight to The Hague. 

[immortal13 4059]

No need for detention centers...just send their asses back

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Why does the right hate following the law so much? 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Trump made this situation so much worse by promoting the caravans throughout his campaigns.  

Fucking moron. 

[David Dennison 18850]

4 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

No need for detention centers...just send their asses back

More evidence that the right does not care about the law.