2018 NBA Offseason Thread -- News, Free Agency, Trades, Etc

[Goo Punch 4275]

Seriously. That's mind blowing.

[aggie08 21504]

24 minutes ago, Machinator said:

I know OKC has richer ownership now, but just looking at the value they're getting from this roster vs. what they had from the 2012 roster with Harden is just mind-bottling.

Seriously, if only these loose pockets were there when KD and Harden were still in town...

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

Can someone please explain to me, in extreme layman's terms, how the tax bill works?

[BigOrange1 6441]

1 hour ago, Radical Larry said:

$150M tax bill. Holy shit. 

anytime you can pay $150 million in luxury tax in order to bring back a team who lost in 6 games in the first round (to a rookie), you have to do it.

Edited July 4, 2018 by BigOrange1

[Message Board User 12395]

6 hours ago, ernest_t_bass said:

Can someone please explain to me, in extreme layman's terms, how the tax bill works?

One for you 19 for me.

[Francisco 2.0 32395]

7 hours ago, ernest_t_bass said:

Can someone please explain to me, in extreme layman's terms, how the tax bill works?

The league sets a cap level.  For this year, it's just under $102  million or so.  After that, you have a threshold where the luxury tax kicks in.  For this season, the threshold is around $124 million.  Teams can spend between the $102 and $124 figures (yeah, it gets complicated) but once a team crosses the $124 figure, then the luxury tax kicks in.    Also, teams can't bring in a new player unless his contract fits under the $102 figure; exception to this is if a player is brought in under one of the exceptions (Boogie Cousins) and that contract must fit between the $102 and $124 figures.  Exception contracts are limited in duration and amount.

Also, these two figures ($102 and $124) are slated to go up in coming seasons.

There are two levels to the luxury tax; repeater and non-repeater.  Take for example the Celtics.  They are working really, really hard to stay under the $124 threshold.  They haven't paid tax in quite some time.  They do realize they are going to cross that threshold in the coming years. 

Now, the first year they cross the threshold, they will pay a tax.  However....for every year they are over the threshold, after the first year...they are in the repeater level...and that tax rises substantially (edit:  see below).   Currently, there are four franchises at the tax paying level---Warriors, Cavaliers, Wizards and OKC.

Season	Tax Level	Taxpaying Teams (amount paid in $millions)
2017-18	$119,266,000	Cavs ($50.7), Warriors ($32.3), Thunder ($25.4), Wizards ($7.0)
2018-19	$123,733,000

 

Here's the current tax table:

Amount over tax threshold	Standard tax per excess dollar	Repeat offender tax per excess dollar
$4,999,999 or less	$1.50	$2.50
$5 million to $9,999,999	$1.75	$2.75
$10 million to $14,999,999	$2.50	$3.50
$15 million to $19,999,999	$3.25	$4.25
Over $20 million	$3.75 + $0.50 per $5 million	$4.75 + $0.50 per $5 million

 

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q18

I was wrong on the conditions for paying the repeater luxury tax:

Teams pay an incremental tax rate based on their team salary as of the team's last regular season game, and whether the team is a "repeat offender," i.e., whether they were also taxpayers in at least three of the four previous seasons.  

For example:

A team with a team salary $12 million over the tax level pays a tax of $21.25 million (the incremental maximum of $7.5 million for $0 to $4,999,999, plus the incremental maximum of $8.75 million for $5 million to $9,999,999, plus $2 million times the incremental rate of $2.50 for $10 million to $14,999,999).

A team that was a taxpayer in three of the four previous seasons, with a team salary in the current season $4 million over the tax level pays a tax of $10 million ($4 million times the repeater rate of $2.50 for $0 to $4,999,999).

Edited July 4, 2018 by Francisco 2.0

[d2o 1602]

7 hours ago, Radical Larry said:

$150M tax bill. Holy shit. 

Reporting it like this is somewhat irresponsible to me.  Borderline tabloid journalism.   Prolly sowing seeds for the next CBA byt the owners.    By the time its time to pay the tax there is almost zero chance they will be carrying that much salary.    Melo will be gone and I wouldnt be surprised if they make another deal to shed a little more salary.

[Francisco 2.0 32395]

13 minutes ago, d2o said:

Reporting it like this is somewhat irresponsible to me.  Borderline tabloid journalism.   Prolly sowing seeds for the next CBA byt the owners.    By the time its time to pay the tax there is almost zero chance they will be carrying that much salary.    Melo will be gone and I wouldnt be surprised if they make another deal to shed a little more salary.

You are right; if the current roster is still intact next May, the Thunder will owe $150 million in taxes.  That's a big if.

But....they aren't trading Anthony, because there are no takers, and he has a no trade clause.  They could buy him out, but they still owe taxes.  If they stretch him, they still owe taxes, just at a reduced amount.

It may not be $150 million this time next year, but due to their repeater status, it could easily get close to $100, assuming Anthony is no longer on the roster next May.  And that $91 million in savings if they were to stretch Anthony?  That's cumulative, not all at once. 

 

Edited July 4, 2018 by Francisco 2.0

[Aqua Buddha 14598]

You almost need to a corporate tax lawyer to understand the salary cap.

[South Austin 52518]

8 hours ago, Radical Larry said:

$150M tax bill. Holy shit. 

Time for OKC to call Optima Tax Relief.

[Murfdogg21 4413]

9 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Time for OKC to call Optima Tax Relief.

[Dewey 3286]

And no one said jack shit when they gamed the system, sat out their injured best player for an entire season to tank after winning 59 games the year prior, won the lottery, and lucked into one of the most ready-made NBA superstars in draft history.
Nor should they have.

They did exactly that, but people were talking about it, talking about the tank job. Spurs just rolled with it and their fans had some bullshit reason why it wasnt tanking.

[Brothahorn 10087]

Presti was a dumbass for getting Jello in the first place.

[threesheets 1673]

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

Time for OKC to call Optima Tax Relief.

Or time for them to sell and get moved the fuck back to Seattle where they belong.

[HtownHorn 14704]

1 hour ago, Brothahorn said:

Presti was a dumbass for getting Jello in the first place.

and giving Adams that ridiculous contract.

[d2o 1602]

17 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

and giving Adams that ridiculous contract.

2016 man.   so many teams fucked themselves

[Orca of Peace 109]

how is GS luxury tax so much less than OKC given that the team payrolls are roughly the same?

[BigOrange1 6441]

adams is overpaid, but his deal isn't especially egregious.  he's a good player.

[South Austin 52518]

25 minutes ago, Orca of Peace said:

how is GS luxury tax so much less than OKC given that the team payrolls are roughly the same?

Different time zones.

[immortal13 4059]

1 hour ago, Orca of Peace said:

how is GS luxury tax so much less than OKC given that the team payrolls are roughly the same?

Repeat offenders

[Vic Mackey 47076]

...

[South Austin 52518]

6 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Repeat offenders

Not a pretty name, is it H.I.?

[HtownHorn 14704]

1 hour ago, Orca of Peace said:

how is GS luxury tax so much less than OKC given that the team payrolls are roughly the same?

Golden State is not in the same repeater tax bracket as OKC. Currently GS projects to be under the $20M threshold, OKC blew past that with George and Grant. The difference really is Durant taking $5M less on his contract to keep them under the $20M threshold.

Edited July 4, 2018 by HtownHorn

[shakahorn 1645]

...

How would they do vs Caesar at Gaul?

[d2o 1602]

32 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

...

daaaaaaaaaaa bears

[immortal13 4059]

"You can't get no entertainment in Cleveland" lulz

[immortal13 4059]

28 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Not a pretty name, is it H.I.?

que?

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

Not a pretty name, is it H.I.?

No, sir. That’s one bonehead name but that ain’t me anymore.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

17 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

"You can't get no entertainment in Cleveland" lulz

I don't know what lavar is going to do if they trade lonzo. He's so dedicated to the Lakers his teeth are Laker yellow

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

6 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

The league sets a cap level.  For this year, it's just under $102  million or so.  After that, you have a threshold where the luxury tax kicks in.  For this season, the threshold is around $124 million.  Teams can spend between the $102 and $124 figures (yeah, it gets complicated) but once a team crosses the $124 figure, then the luxury tax kicks in.    Also, teams can't bring in a new player unless his contract fits under the $102 figure; exception to this is if a player is brought in under one of the exceptions (Boogie Cousins) and that contract must fit between the $102 and $124 figures.  Exception contracts are limited in duration and amount.

Also, these two figures ($102 and $124) are slated to go up in coming seasons.

There are two levels to the luxury tax; repeater and non-repeater.  Take for example the Celtics.  They are working really, really hard to stay under the $124 threshold.  They haven't paid tax in quite some time.  They do realize they are going to cross that threshold in the coming years. 

Now, the first year they cross the threshold, they will pay a tax.  However....for every year they are over the threshold, after the first year...they are in the repeater level...and that tax rises substantially (edit:  see below).   Currently, there are four franchises at the tax paying level---Warriors, Cavaliers, Wizards and OKC.

Season	Tax Level	Taxpaying Teams (amount paid in $millions)
2017-18	$119,266,000	Cavs ($50.7), Warriors ($32.3), Thunder ($25.4), Wizards ($7.0)
2018-19	$123,733,000

 

Here's the current tax table:

Amount over tax threshold	Standard tax per excess dollar	Repeat offender tax per excess dollar
$4,999,999 or less	$1.50	$2.50
$5 million to $9,999,999	$1.75	$2.75
$10 million to $14,999,999	$2.50	$3.50
$15 million to $19,999,999	$3.25	$4.25
Over $20 million	$3.75 + $0.50 per $5 million	$4.75 + $0.50 per $5 million

 

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q18

I was wrong on the conditions for paying the repeater luxury tax:

Teams pay an incremental tax rate based on their team salary as of the team's last regular season game, and whether the team is a "repeat offender," i.e., whether they were also taxpayers in at least three of the four previous seasons.  

For example:

A team with a team salary $12 million over the tax level pays a tax of $21.25 million (the incremental maximum of $7.5 million for $0 to $4,999,999, plus the incremental maximum of $8.75 million for $5 million to $9,999,999, plus $2 million times the incremental rate of $2.50 for $10 million to $14,999,999).

A team that was a taxpayer in three of the four previous seasons, with a team salary in the current season $4 million over the tax level pays a tax of $10 million ($4 million times the repeater rate of $2.50 for $0 to $4,999,999).

That's not the dummy version, lol.

If a team pays "$150 million tax bill," is that $150 million on top of their salary?  I guess that's the main question I'm asking. 

[Patrick Bateman 3916]

8 minutes ago, ernest_t_bass said:

That's not the dummy version, lol.

If a team pays "$150 million tax bill," is that $150 million on top of their salary?  I guess that's the main question I'm asking. 

Yes.

[Dutchrudder 11141]

I think OKC should see if they can trade Melo to LA for Deng, then stretch Deng for 34m over 5 years instead of Melo at 28m over 3. It would save them millions in taxes, and Melo would gladly accept going to LA. Seems like a win-win to me.

[immortal13 4059]

That's a lot of money is the answer.

[Brothahorn 10087]

...

...

The banana boat crew would get swept, unless D Wade goes crazy. Only one on that team with heart.

Sent from my K88 using Tapatalk

[Patrick Bateman 3916]

7 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

I think OKC should see if they can trade Melo to LA for Deng, then stretch Deng for 34m over 5 years instead of Melo at 28m over 3. It would save them millions in taxes, and Melo would gladly accept going to LA. Seems like a win-win to me.

What else would be traded for Melo?  Salaries don’t match and la doesn’t have the space...

[Dutchrudder 11141]

What else would be traded for Melo?  Salaries don’t match and la doesn’t have the space...

If they hold off on signing Lance for MLE, they should have around 6-7m in space. Not sure if that's enough to make it work, but it would be an interesting salary dump for both teams. OKC takes on 8m more total salary, but can stretch it at a longer rate so it doesn't eat as much cap space each year. I need to check the math to see how much repeater tax that would save each year.

[Vic Mackey 47076]

...

[Radical Larry 28634]

32 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

41 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

What else would be traded for Melo?  Salaries don’t match and la doesn’t have the space...

If they hold off on signing Lance for MLE, they should have around 6-7m in space. Not sure if that's enough to make it work, but it would be an interesting salary dump for both teams. OKC takes on 8m more total salary, but can stretch it at a longer rate so it doesn't eat as much cap space each year. I need to check the math to see how much repeater tax that would save each year.

[Francisco 2.0 32395]

2 hours ago, ernest_t_bass said:

That's not the dummy version, lol.

If a team pays "$150 million tax bill," is that $150 million on top of their salary?  I guess that's the main question I'm asking. 

Honestly, there's no real easy way to describe this.  But as answered previously, yes....$150 on top of $150.

The repeater tax is such that the new 3 year deal Grant received from OKC on July 1---3 years, $27 million---is really 3 years, $54 million.  

The non-repeater luxury tax by itself isn't some huge impediment.  But the repeater version that OKC is in?  Holy Hell.  

 

 

[Vic Mackey 47076]

...

[Slacks 6821]

We know. The Warriors are loaded with all stars. The dead horse has been beaten. A lot.

[d2o 1602]

3 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

I think OKC should see if they can trade Melo to LA for Deng, then stretch Deng for 34m over 5 years instead of Melo at 28m over 3. It would save them millions in taxes, and Melo would gladly accept going to LA. Seems like a win-win to me.

Actually not a bad idea.   Not sure ift they have enough space to absorb Melo's addition 10M now but I'm guessing they could work that out.   OKC really needs to dump him and not take anything back but this would help...............some.   Maybe they could give someone else a pick to reroute Deng to them.

Edited July 4, 2018 by d2o

[Vic Mackey 47076]

We know. The Warriors are loaded with all stars. The dead horse has been beaten. A lot.

Lol at a dead horse being beaten a lot after 2 days. Yeah you're in for a ride if you think it's going to stop now. The memes are just getting started. And I'll be here to post every single one of them just for you.

[Dutchrudder 11141]

how is GS luxury tax so much less than OKC given that the team payrolls are roughly the same?

GS is a luxury tax team, OKC is a repeater luxury tax team this year. Different scales of tax for the two, repeater is much more penalizing. Repeater kicks in when you are in the luxury tax at least 3 of the last 4 seasons. Next year, GS would become a repeater if they go into the tax to re-sign KD and Klay.

[HookEm 2467]

Right now Houston is +800 to win the title next year.  Personally I think that it is 50/50 whether Boogie will be a net addition or subtraction to GSW.  He may not be back physically at a point that he can contribute next year.  Plus, he is a known locker room cancer.

Houston took the Warriors to 7 games last year and could have absolutely won if Chris Paul were playing.  Does adding Boogie really give them 12X better odds than Houston?  

Then you have Boston adding two all-stars in Kyrie and Hayward, plus their young core getting a year older.  They are much hungrier than the Warriors.  Should GSW really have ~8x better odds than them?

People are WAY over-hyping the Boogie addition.

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

Maybe Boogie has zero desire for rings, and just wants to fuck up their chemistry.

[Orca of Peace 109]

4 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

...

which begs the Q, how come NOP didn't crush it with arguably the 2 best bigs in the world?

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Right now Houston is +800 to win the title next year.  Personally I think that it is 50/50 whether Boogie will be a net addition or subtraction to GSW.  He may not be back physically at a point that he can contribute next year.  Plus, he is a known locker room cancer.
Houston took the Warriors to 7 games last year and could have absolutely won if Chris Paul were playing.  Does adding Boogie really give them 12X better odds than Houston?  
Then you have Boston adding two all-stars in Kyrie and Hayward, plus their young core getting a year older.  They are much hungrier than the Warriors.  Should GSW really have ~8x better odds than them?
People are WAY over-hyping the Boogie addition.

You gotta hope cp3 stays healthy nov-mid may.

I think that's a sucker bet. Houston losing ariza who's really the only one who can body Durant hurts.

Plus it's pretty much proven that dantonis system isnt good enough to win.

[immortal13 4059]

5 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

You gotta hope cp3 stays healthy nov-mid may.

I think that's a sucker bet. Houston losing ariza who's really the only one who can body Durant hurts.

Plus it's pretty much proven that dantonis system isnt good enough to win.

Ouch

[Goo Punch 4275]