2018 NBA Offseason Thread -- News, Free Agency, Trades, Etc

[Machinator 32097]

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

I just don't get it. Any moves that Houston makes have to be geared towards winning a title; what exactly does Melo give them in the playoffs that any number of youner/cheaper/less selfish options couldn't give them? He can't defend, he's a shell of his former offensive self, Houston already has plenty of scoring...what, at all, do they get out of this?

[HtownHorn 14446]

19 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

I just don't get it. Any moves that Houston makes have to be geared towards winning a title; what exactly does Melo give them in the playoffs that any number of youner/cheaper/less selfish options couldn't give them? He can't defend, he's a shell of his former offensive self, Houston already has plenty of scoring...what, at all, do they get out of this?

Maybe a guy that will not contribute to 27 consecutive missed 3PAs. Paul thinks he can resurrect Melo in Houston. Playing with Harden and Paul is the closest to the Olympics Melo will ever get in the NBA, other than GS.

He will play the 4 in Houston and likely come off the bench with Gordon and Paul. I also bet he becomes a more efficient player getting wide open looks off of Harden and Paul, as opposed to Westbrick.

Edited July 13, 2018 by HtownHorn

[Aqua Buddha 14489]

I watched the WCF, which was one of the sloppiest displays I've ever seen from two "elite" teams.  I didn't see any wide open looks for either team.  I saw a bunch of contested 3's if the initial shot wasn't there.  Lots of misses.  Not sure how Melo fixes that, and that's assuming he's able to play real minutes at an extended level in the playoffs at age 35.

[Dutchrudder 11103]

15 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Actually the players were being compared, not the situations. 

Ok, maybe I should have said, "Nobody but Derka is comparing the players"

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

9 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Nope, that's wrong. They were compared as players. That's the entire reason for my incredulity.

 

Also, i find it incredibly ironic that the same people who consistently mischaracterized everything i said, who continuously were combative and insulting, and who would rather incessantly bring up a point i walked back days ago than address a single quote i've actually made would have such a lack of self awareness as to act holier than thou and say "i'm out". you were the ones derka'ing the thread with your combative and bombastic responses. i stuck to the subject, while y'all kept flaming me and exaggerating everything i said, then patted each other on the back for being so above it all. that's a fact. please do not ever delude yourselves into believing otherwise.

No they werent being compared. CC is better than BB. BB wouldnt do what CC does in Houston.

 

25-27 other teams would see a drop off in CC's offensive production if he signed there 

 

He would make more money than BB on a contract and have around the same offensive out put

 

there for he gets BB comparisons. 

Edited July 13, 2018 by MNLonghornFUKM

[Jhawk 1075]

1 hour ago, HtownHorn said:

Maybe a guy that will not contribute to 27 consecutive missed 3PAs. Paul thinks he can resurrect Melo in Houston. Playing with Harden and Paul is the closest to the Olympics Melo will ever get in the NBA, other than GS.

He will play the 4 in Houston and likely come off the bench with Gordon and Paul. I also bet he becomes a more efficient player getting wide open looks off of Harden and Paul, as opposed to Westbrick.

So after a year of saying he won't come off the bench now he is going to accept a position he has never really played AND come off the bench?  And somehow he is going to be better than he was in his last few years?  Reminds me f when melo was courting Amare to NYC and said he would be the second option if that is what it took.  Then about 10 games into the season he was bitching that he wasn't getting enough shots.  Melo is an absolute cancer and the amount of water that has been carried by other players and the media for him is truly astonishing.  Fuck... D'antoni even said that melo was the reason he walked off the job in NYC.

According to vegasinsider, GSW is 5/8 and Houston is 10/1 to win it all.  If houston takes melo Then GSW at 5/8 is a steal.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Jhawk

[HtownHorn 14446]

13 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

So after a year of saying he won't come off the bench now he is going to accept a position he has never really played AND come off the bench?  And somehow he is going to be better than he was in his last few years?  Reminds me f when melo was courting Amare to NYC and said he would be the second option if that is what it took.  Then about 10 games into the season he was bitching that he wasn't getting enough shots.  Melo is an absolute cancer and the amount of water that has been carried by other players and the media for him is truly astonishing.  Fuck... D'antoni even said that melo was the reason he walked off the job in NYC.

According to vegasinsider, GSW is 5/8 and Houston is 10/1 to win it all.  If houston takes melo Then GSW at 5/8 is a steal.

If it doesn't work you cut him. Playing with Harden and Paul is different than playing with Westbrick and George. Neither of those make their teammates better. Harden and Paul absolutely do.

[HtownHorn 14446]

Let the speculation begin where Butler ends up.

Edited July 13, 2018 by HtownHorn

[d2o 1602]

4 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

If it doesn't work you cut him. Playing with Harden and Paul is different than playing with Westbrick and George. Neither of those make their teammates better. Harden and Paul absolutely do.

that is the thing.   If they give up nothing to get him and he is on a vet min deal there is no real downside.   Just dump him if by Christmas he is causing trouble.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

42 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Let the speculation begin where Butler ends up.

Ha..... I mean, there was no way he was accepting that extension even if he loved the Wolves and was coming off a championship with them.  He can earn more money waiting until next year assuming his health is in order.  That being written, I don't think he extends next summer either and this is his last year in Minnesota.

 

Edited July 13, 2018 by Patrick Bateman

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

With the most recent Melo news, I was trying to think of the player Melo most reminded me of.  I don't necessarily mean from a physical stature (although a Shaq comparison doesn't work) but from a playing and attitude perspective.  Great ISO player but ball stopper who was previously the best player on a team but is in full declination.  Allen Iverson jumps out, but who else?  

[Dutchrudder 11103]

1 hour ago, Jhawk said:

So after a year of saying he won't come off the bench now he is going to accept a position he has never really played AND come off the bench?  And somehow he is going to be better than he was in his last few years?  Reminds me f when melo was courting Amare to NYC and said he would be the second option if that is what it took.  Then about 10 games into the season he was bitching that he wasn't getting enough shots.  Melo is an absolute cancer and the amount of water that has been carried by other players and the media for him is truly astonishing.  Fuck... D'antoni even said that melo was the reason he walked off the job in NYC.

According to vegasinsider, GSW is 5/8 and Houston is 10/1 to win it all.  If houston takes melo Then GSW at 5/8 is a steal.

At this point, I expect him to start for the Rockets. Who else can play SF other than Ennis?  Unless something changes, he should get significant minutes in this lineup, at least until they realize the issue, and trade for another SF. 

[HookEm 2441]

7 hours ago, CBT said:

Uh, no. Boston got Kyrie in that trade and Thomas was coming off a hip injury that was so bad Cleveland almost backed out of the deal.  

People viewed the Kyrie (25 ppg, 5.8 apg)  for I.T. (28.9 ppg, 5.9 apg) trade as only a SLIGHT advantage for Boston given the popularity of Thomas and the year that he just had.  Heck, he was 5th in MVP voting at the time of the trade...

But then when you factored in the Nets pick, which everyone assumed would be a top-3 pick, everyone felt that it was a horrible trade for Boston.  Most people overlooked the fact that with no incentive to tank, the Nets might not have such a terrible record (especially in the East).

Moreover, any injury concerns for IT were balanced by the fact that Kyrie himself had not been the healthiest player either.

Regardless, IT has landed in a good situation in Denver.  He will be an excellent 6th man if he will embrace the role.  Denver is building something good/

[Mitch Cumsteen 18517]

51 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

With the most recent Melo news, I was trying to think of the player Melo most reminded me of.  I don't necessarily mean from a physical stature (although a Shaq comparison doesn't work) but from a playing and attitude perspective.  Great ISO player but ball stopper who was previously the best player on a team but is in full declination.  Allen Iverson jumps out, but who else?  

Reggie Theus. 

[Jhawk 1075]

1 hour ago, Dutchrudder said:

At this point, I expect him to start for the Rockets. Who else can play SF other than Ennis?  Unless something changes, he should get significant minutes in this lineup, at least until they realize the issue, and trade for another SF. 

The rockets are definitely not better than they were last year but adding melo will make it even worse 

[Bogeywon 2518]

12 hours ago, kopp0e said:

Just my opinion, but Shaq should be on this list too...

Was just about to post this

[HtownHorn 14446]

1 hour ago, Jhawk said:

The rockets are definitely not better than they were last year but adding melo will make it even worse 

Fucking bullshit.

So a broke down Trevor Ariza and a one shoulder'd Luc Mbah a Moute are really huge losses.

They had the 3rd best record in the NBA 2 years ago with Harden and Gordon.

As long as Harden and Paul are healthy, the Rockets will be at the top of the Western Conference, i.e. the NBA.

Edited July 13, 2018 by HtownHorn

[BigOrange1 6416]

 

[d2o 1602]

25 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Fucking bullshit.

So a broke down Trevor Ariza and a one shoulder'd Luc Mbah a Moute are really huge losses.

They had the 3rd best record in the NBA 2 years ago with Harden and Gordon.

As long as Harden and Paul are healthy, the Rockets will be at the top of the Western Conference, i.e. the NBA.

Are the guys coming in better than those that left?   If not, then they are not better.   You can say that it wont be a huge dropoff but I cant see how you think they are better.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

40 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Fucking bullshit.

So a broke down Trevor Ariza and a one shoulder'd Luc Mbah a Moute are really huge losses.

They had the 3rd best record in the NBA 2 years ago with Harden and Gordon.

As long as Harden and Paul are healthy, the Rockets will be at the top of the Western Conference, i.e. the NBA.

Both opinions can prove to be true.... They can still be an elite team in the Western Conference and still not as good as last season.  A lot of cognitive dissonance in the post as well.  Offseason ain't over though and I doubt Morey is finished making tweaks to the team.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

29 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

 

I like the signing but with LaVine coming off a knee injury, their medical team may have their work cut out for them....

 

[kopp0e 1135]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

Are the guys coming in better than those that left?   If not, then they are not better.   You can say that it wont be a huge dropoff but I cant see how you think they are better.

From what I saw of Melo on the Thundr last season, if in fact the Rockets pick him up, is he will add leadership on the court for the team, but will that translate to offensive points..?

[Message Board User 12389]

4 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

With the most recent Melo news, I was trying to think of the player Melo most reminded me of.  I don't necessarily mean from a physical stature (although a Shaq comparison doesn't work) but from a playing and attitude perspective.  Great ISO player but ball stopper who was previously the best player on a team but is in full declination.  Allen Iverson jumps out, but who else?  

Antoine walker.

[Vic Mackey 46919]

Tracy McGrady?

[Message Board User 12389]

We're missing the obvious - Kobe.

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, Vic Mackey said:

Tracy McGrady?

Nah, McGrady proved to me he was just a very good basketball player when he lost his athleticism.   He was very good during his time in HOU IMO

[Chad 1728]

5 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Fucking bullshit.

So a broke down Trevor Ariza and a one shoulder'd Luc Mbah a Moute are really huge losses.

They had the 3rd best record in the NBA 2 years ago with Harden and Gordon.

As long as Harden and Paul are healthy, the Rockets will be at the top of the Western Conference, i.e. the NBA.

That's a bold claim to make with a dominant Golden State team becoming even better. They're better at every position than Houston except for SG but it's not like Harden the playoff choker is much better than Klay Thompson who actually shows up in the post season and doesn't choke on his own dick. Houston may have pushed the series to 7 games but the majority of their wins they scraped by when GS won they won by 20+ in dominant fashion. Houston did drub GS in one of their 3 victories, but game 3 set the tone for the remainder of that series 126-85 that's just embarrassing and when GS won they blew Houston out of the water every time.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Chad

[kopp0e 1135]

15 hours ago, CBT said:

Uh, no. Boston got Kyrie in that trade and Thomas was coming off a hip injury that was so bad Cleveland almost backed out of the deal.  

In retrospect, maybe Cleveland should have backed out, there would be more pieces on the trading block right now if they kept Kyrie for the extra year...

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

7 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Ha..... I mean, there was no way he was accepting that extension even if he loved the Wolves and was coming off a championship with them.  He can earn more money waiting until next year assuming his health is in order.  That being written, I don't think he extends next summer either and this is his last year in Minnesota.

 

Looks like all teams can offer him 4/140, and Minny can offer him 5/190. id still say advantage Minnesota. 

[HtownHorn 14446]

5 hours ago, d2o said:

Are the guys coming in better than those that left?   If not, then they are not better.   You can say that it wont be a huge dropoff but I cant see how you think they are better.

Ennis is better and younger than one shouldered Luc. We are in a wait and see as to who will replace Ariza, my guess is it will be someone that outproduces Ariza in Phoenix for a fraction of the price. Kinda like when Ariza replaced Chandler Parson for a fraction of the cost, 4 years ago. If Melo comes and agrees to come off the bench with Gordon with Paul leading the 2nd unit, the bench is much better than it was last year with Anderson.

[HtownHorn 14446]

4 minutes ago, Chad said:

That's a bold claim to make with a dominant Golden State team becoming even better. They're better at every position than Houston except for SG but it's not like Harden the playoff choker is much better than Klay Thompson who actually shows up in the post season and doesn't choke on his own dick. Houston may have pushed the series to 7 games but the majority of their wins they scraped by when GS won they won by 20+ in dominant fashion. Houston did drub GS in one of their 3 victories, but game 3 set the tone for the remainder of that series 126-85 that's just embarrassing.

Yeah, so much so that the Rockets took a 3-2 lead in the series, and the claim wasn't that they are the best team in the NBA, but at the top of it, which general means one of the Top 3-4 teams, which they are.

[Chad 1728]

16 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Yeah, so much so that the Rockets took a 3-2 lead in the series, and the claim wasn't that they are the best team in the NBA, but at the top of it, which general means one of the Top 3-4 teams, which they are.

Don't worry Melo will be a difference maker and will put y'all over the top......

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

On 7/12/2018 at 10:04 PM, Vic Mackey said:

Iverson on this list is laughable.  And Dirk is ahead of Garnett and Malone in my eyes. And if we're being honest Duncan is a power forward in name only.  He's a center in every other era of basketball.  Even alongside Robinson he was more center than power forward.  

[Machinator 32097]

An NBA SG Mount Rushmore without the fucking Logo isn't one worth discussing.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Machinator

[HookEm 2441]

Pippin shouldn't be ahead of Durant.

Not sure Stockton as the 2nd best player on a team with no rings should be ahead of Curry with 3 rings and 2 MVPs.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

2 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Looks like all teams can offer him 4/140, and Minny can offer him 5/190. id still say advantage Minnesota. 

Absolutely the best advantage Minny has is the money, but as we've seen, if guys just don't want to be in a place, they'll leave.  KD, Hayward, Lebron, etc, etc.  Kawhi right now.  Plus, Butler obviously has some sort of respect or affinity to Thibs.  Respect Butler thus far, he has handled it professionally but his lack of commitment to the Wolves has to be concerning as shit.  The team building with that team needs to happen quickly.  If Butler truly isn't happy with KAT and Wiggin's lack of work ethic, then he's prime to leave.  He's at the age where it makes sense to leave.  We'll have to see what happens but if the Wolves are 5-8 seed at the deadline and he isn't much happier, wonder if they flip him at the deadline.  An organization with as many issues as they've had, it would be difficult to let him go for nothing.  Cap space may not mean as much....

EDIT:  Think they have until the January to evaluate....

 

Edited July 14, 2018 by Patrick Bateman

[BigOrange1 6416]

man i would not give jimmy butler 5 years, 190 million.  that's insane.  

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

5 hours ago, Message Board User said:

We're missing the obvious - Kobe.

So, it's interesting.  AI, Walker, McGrady (who actually seemed to accept his limitation okay), etc;  none of them seemed to have a good bump once they went to a team who was better positioned to win.  They all seemed to stall out or continue their decline, by the numbers, even after leaving.  It's not real definitive but I think the thought, Melo will have a dead cat bounce for a year going to a place where he can win and wants to be, is unfounded.  Not a lot of comparables to support the line of thinking because those dudes' games aren't set up to be backups.  I'm sure theres an example, but it would seem it's a outlier rather than expected.  Wherever Melo ends up (Houston, LA, Miami, etc), history tells us, it won't matter much.  He'll be the same guy or probably worse and not a difference maker..... We'll see...

[immortal13 4059]

10 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

With the most recent Melo news, I was trying to think of the player Melo most reminded me of.  I don't necessarily mean from a physical stature (although a Shaq comparison doesn't work) but from a playing and attitude perspective.  Great ISO player but ball stopper who was previously the best player on a team but is in full declination.  Allen Iverson jumps out, but who else?  

He has always reminded me of Glenn Robinson, not necessarily his game but more his body type

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

8 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

man i would not give jimmy butler 5 years, 190 million.  that's insane.  

I tend to agree, but Butler's a pretty good fucking player.  I don't know, can he be a good #2?  Probably better as a #3 on a contender but his metrics are pretty decent the last 4 years.  Better than a DeRozan or surprisingly a Klay Thompson.  Now, context matter a ton.... a ton.  Maybe he's just a good player who's metrics are bounced on a marginal team although he's a good defensive player, it's how he cut his teeth.  He's actually got a great AST% on a sensible USG%.  He'll be 29 this year so he probably only has 3-4 years of prime left and he's not a great shooter (solid) from deep so his game could grey poorly but as wings go, he's pretty good for now.  Injured a lot.  Let me ask you this, Capela for Butler?  Would you do it if you could get another dude added in like Diang???

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

3 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

He has always reminded me of Glenn Robinson, not necessarily his game but more his body type

Thought of him but Melo is such a better player.  It's not close so it's seems a disservice to compare the two, even for those that aren't Melo fans (like me).  I admit, great physical comp....

 

[HtownHorn 14446]

3 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I tend to agree, but Butler's a pretty good fucking player.  I don't know, can he be a good #2?  Probably better as a #3 on a contender but his metrics are pretty decent the last 4 years.  Better than a DeRozan or surprisingly a Klay Thompson.  Now, context matter a ton.... a ton.  Maybe he's just a good player who's metrics are bounced on a marginal team although he's a good defensive player, it's how he cut his teeth.  He's actually got a great AST% on a sensible USG%.  He'll be 29 this year so he probably only has 3-4 years of prime left and he's not a great shooter (solid) from deep so his game could grey poorly but as wings go, he's pretty good for now.  Injured a lot.  Let me ask you this, Capela for Butler?  Would you do it if you could get another dude added in like Diang???

Why would Minnesota trade for Capela? There is a reason Dieng and Towns hardly play together.

[immortal13 4059]

This off-season has been pretty crazy. I keep waiting for the Kawhi traded news to break.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

Why would Minnesota trade for Capela? There is a reason Dieng and Towns hardly play together.

It wasn't a question born out of a realistic quotient.  I think your question is a great one.  Doubt they would unless pressed and it was the best possible assets on the table.  More for Houston fans.... how do you see Butler (as a dude who can easily replace and be better than Ariza) vs a guy like Capela if you could get a big guy, with some skills, to dive and replace the defense CC would give.  You would give up some on the big end but get a better wing.  I agree Minny would probably pass at this time....

[BigOrange1 6416]

8 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I tend to agree, but Butler's a pretty good fucking player.  I don't know, can he be a good #2?  Probably better as a #3 on a contender but his metrics are pretty decent the last 4 years.  Better than a DeRozan or surprisingly a Klay Thompson.  Now, context matter a ton.... a ton.  Maybe he's just a good player who's metrics are bounced on a marginal team although he's a good defensive player, it's how he cut his teeth.  He's actually got a great AST% on a sensible USG%.  He'll be 29 this year so he probably only has 3-4 years of prime left and he's not a great shooter (solid) from deep so his game could grey poorly but as wings go, he's pretty good for now.  Injured a lot.  Let me ask you this, Capela for Butler?  Would you do it if you could get another dude added in like Diang???

i think i'd do it just because the way the game is played now you want those defensive wings and butler is one of the best in the league.  realistically the rockets' window is probably only 2-3 more years so butler's age isn't a huge issue with that time frame.  

however minnesota's window is theoretically a lot longer with towns only being 22 (will play most of next season as a 23 year old).  i think i'd want someone who was on the same time frame rather than a 30 year old jimmy butler.  

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

3 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

i think i'd do it just because the way the game is played now you want those defensive wings and butler is one of the best in the league.  realistically the rockets' window is probably only 2-3 more years so butler's age isn't a huge issue with that time frame.  

however minnesota's window is theoretically a lot longer with towns only being 22 (will play most of next season as a 23 year old).  i think i'd want someone who was on the same time frame rather than a 30 year old jimmy butler.  

As always, I think this is a solid and reasonable analysis of the situation.  CP3's window is probably 2 years, make the fucking run now...... And I also agree, Butler doesn't make a ton of sense on the TWolves roster, if they could trade him for younger, good assets.  I think last year proved, Minnesota isn't really close to being a realistic contender in the next 1-2 years.  We may disagree slightly on how good Butler is.  It may surprise you that Butler over the last 4 years is the best SG in the league, by adv metrics.  Now, in positional-less basketball, that may not be exactly fair, but considering his defense probably isn't accurately accounted for, he may not be fully appreciated (not a great shooter).  In a 5 year contract, he probably plays up over his contact for a couple of years and then it gets uglier in year 4 and 5.  Depends on his health.

[Dutchrudder 11103]

Looks like the Bulls will get him if they work out a deal. 

[Chad 1728]

5 hours ago, immortal13 said:

This off-season has been pretty crazy. I keep waiting for the Kawhi traded news to break.

Don't hold your breath his posse has made it nearly impossible for him to be traded anywhere but LA. The Clippers have no assets and the Lakers aren't willing to offer much. 

[d2o 1602]

5 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Thought of him but Melo is such a better player.  It's not close so it's seems a disservice to compare the two, even for those that aren't Melo fans (like me).  I admit, great physical comp....

 

Correct.  Neither of them seemed to really improve their bodies over the course of their career.   Both were great scorer and seemed to just ride that ability while not trying to improve much in any other aspect.