2018 NBA Offseason Thread -- News, Free Agency, Trades, Etc

[SilasCoade 2620]

2 hours ago, BigOrange1 said:

klay thompson is not more valuable to the warriors than draymond green.  

thompson is the ultimate luxury guy in the entire league.  

A guy that can go off for 30 any game is a luxury? Sheeeit.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

Analysis of Klay vs Draymond that I read earlier this year...... I do agree that Klay may age more gracefully, so you'd have to build that into any analysis.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2781595-if-warriors-are-forced-to-pick-between-green-and-thompson-the-choice-is-clear

[SilasCoade 2620]

Not only will Klay age better, his game is not exaggerated by the surrounding cast to the degree that Draymond's is.

[Brothahorn 10085]

I hate that everyone just bus into the draymond green narrative. He's Horace Grant with Barkley's mouth and John Starks likeability. Fuck that guy.

He's Dennis Rodman with a better offensive skill set.

[aggie08 21424]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Analysis of Klay vs Draymond that I read earlier this year...... I do agree that Klay may age more gracefully, so you'd have to build that into any analysis.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2781595-if-warriors-are-forced-to-pick-between-green-and-thompson-the-choice-is-clear

This is what if pretty much comes down to:

If the Warriors can find a three-and-D wing who does 75 percent—or even 60 percent—of what Thompson does at a much cheaper price, they'd be better off with the alternative. Green's skill set is historically unique, and without him, the Warriors defense would need an entire makeover. Their present and future reign would be at stake.

And I'm as big of a Klay fan as they come and think that the advanced metrics do him as much of a disservice as anyone in the league. Personally, I'd pick Klay over Draymond purely for the entertainment and aesthetic value alone...but there is absolutely no question whatsoever who has been more important to their success.

Without Klay, their offense would suffer a little (they'll be a top 5 offense as long as Steph is in his prime regardless of teammates), and their defense will take a hit. They'd have to replace him with a true 3-and-D guy, and they'd miss Klay's relentless cutting and mid-range game...but they'd be fine. Certainly more beatable, but fine.

Without Dray, their offense would still suffer, but their defense would fall off a cliff. They wouldn't be able to play how they play; they'd have to play more like everyone else. Maybe Bell develops into 75% of Draymond, but that's a reach.

Edited August 2, 2018 by aggie08

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

Draymond says the fight didn't really go down as first reported......

 

[kopp0e 1135]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Draymond says the fight didn't really go down as first reported......

 

I'd say it was accurate, as when was the last time he kept his mouth closed on something like this that painted him an a bad light..?

[Kermit 3128]

Well, what had happened was....

[Goo Punch 4275]

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

no lakers? 😮

 

Pelicans might take a hit, lost some players.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

9 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

no lakers? 😮

 

Pelicans might take a hit, lost some players.

Gained some too..... Denver being a 4 seed is very interesting.

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

On 7/25/2018 at 10:51 PM, ChickenSandwich said:

Did you watch any New Orleans games last season?  Honest question  they got better when he got hurt. Biggest reason? Tempo. They sped up their pace of play and Davis became a monster. Addition by subtraction. 

If they use him as a few mins here and there/match up, no worries. But if they try to feature him they will be going s disservice to their own offense. Only one way to go there. Down. He slows the pace of the game at his optimum output. 

What exactly has Utah added to go from the bottom of the playoffs to a two seed?

not buying that at all

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

8 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

What exactly has Utah added to go from the bottom of the playoffs to a two seed?

not buying that at all

they had a hell of record after a miserable start.

 

tough defense with veterans and their best scorer is a 2nd year player.  im not putting my mortgage on them finishing ahead of Houston, but i can see it

Edited August 3, 2018 by MNLonghornFUKM

[Underdog 28446]

When  does the league release the upcoming schedule? Will be in SA come November and hope to catch a Spurs game while there. 

[aggie08 21424]

49 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

If the Lakers miss the playoffs, and OKC finishes in the 6th seed, every single coach in Oklahoma and California is getting fired. Every one.

[HtownHorn 14468]

2 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

What exactly has Utah added to go from the bottom of the playoffs to a two seed?

not buying that at all

They were the 3rd best team in the West last year once Gobert got healthy.

[BigOrange1 6422]

2 hours ago, Underdog said:

When  does the league release the upcoming schedule? Will be in SA come November and hope to catch a Spurs game while there. 

think it's usually some time mid-to late august.  

[Chapo 104]

The Jazz don't have enough depth to deal with injuries over the course of 82 games to finish 2. GSW and Rockets finish 1 and 2, win 60+ games.

 

No way Jazz or other teams can sniff 60 wins. The Jazz and the rest (3-10) will be tightly packed like last year, should be lots of fun. You can't count out Lebron and Pop out, so I will crossout Twolves and Blazers from the playoff. Too much team chemistry noise

 

Dame time...my ass

 

 

 

 

[kopp0e 1135]

6 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

West: Jazz at 2 seems pretty high.../ East: Pistons at 8 seems pretty low...

[kopp0e 1135]

5 hours ago, aggie08 said:

If the Lakers miss the playoffs, and OKC finishes in the 6th seed, every single coach in Oklahoma and California is getting fired. Every one.

That would be bad news for Laker fans, as the team looks to entice an additional piece to co-star with LeBron...

[kopp0e 1135]

A trade the thunder could make to bolster the roster:

 

[kopp0e 1135]

And a second option for Oklahoma City:

 

[kopp0e 1135]

On 8/1/2018 at 7:50 PM, Llogg said:

Not only will Klay age better, his game is not exaggerated by the surrounding cast to the degree that Draymond's is.

Agreed... Klay has an offensive skill set more conducive of winning conference championships, where Dray is dependant on teammates offense to offset his lack of scoring...

[kopp0e 1135]

Russ at off season practice on campus at UCLA...

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

one of the 4-5 most well rounded players in the league. "needs teammates for him to be good." get the fuck outta here. you people crack me up. best defender in the league, elite assist man, great rebounder, can play 3 positions on offense, can defend any position on defense... "needs teammates to be good".

again, this is basketball. there are only five guys on the court. you don't need five scorers, but you'll take as many guys who can assist, defend, and rebound as you can get. nobody combines these things as well as draymond save maybe lebron james who isn't as good or as versatile of a defender. take draymond off the warriors and add him to any other contender the last several years and the recent playoffs change drastically. do the same with klay and aside from putting him on 2016 Cleveland i'm not sure anything else changes.

[Dutchrudder 11115]

Spurs and Lakers missing the playoffs? Has that ever happened?

[Swearengen 17]

Minnesota at 5 seems like a reach to me. I don't know, maybe I'm not giving them enough credit.

[HookEm 2443]

So SA adds an All-NBA player with marginal losses (over last year's squad) and misses the playoffs? Doubtful.

LeBron goes from making 8 straight finals to missing the playoffs (with arguably a more talented team than last year)?

Okaaaay...

Portland has added nothing interesting. I think they are out. Minnesota may trade Butler. Then they are out too.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

7 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

one of the 4-5 most well rounded players in the league. "needs teammates for him to be good." get the fuck outta here. you people crack me up. best defender in the league, elite assist man, great rebounder, can play 3 positions on offense, can defend any position on defense... "needs teammates to be good".

again, this is basketball. there are only five guys on the court. you don't need five scorers, but you'll take as many guys who can assist, defend, and rebound as you can get. nobody combines these things as well as draymond save maybe lebron james who isn't as good or as versatile of a defender. take draymond off the warriors and add him to any other contender the last several years and the recent playoffs change drastically. do the same with klay and aside from putting him on 2016 Cleveland i'm not sure anything else changes.

oh sorry for offending you for thinking Draymonds impact on the league is different if he he played for the Hawks or Hornets vs playing on a super team

[Goo Punch 4275]

you being wrong doesn't offend me. explain to me exactly what it is about draymond's teammates that uplifts him so greatly? quit repeating the same tired BS and explain how his defense, rebounding, and passing would diminish if he played for another team. funny how someone like Dennis Rodman or Ben Wallace was just deemed as being plain old good while draymond aint shit without great teammates. explain yourself.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Goo Punch

[Chad 1728]

1 hour ago, HookEm said:

So SA adds an All-NBA player with marginal losses (over last year's squad) and misses the playoffs? Doubtful.

LeBron goes from making 8 straight finals to missing the playoffs (with arguably a more talented team than last year)?

Okaaaay...

Portland has added nothing interesting. I think they are out. Minnesota may trade Butler. Then they are out too.

That's exactly what I thought. If I had to pick two teams to miss out on the playoffs in the West I'd have to roll with two of these three teams : Minnesota, New Orleans or Portland. The Lakers gained LeBron and some veteran role players so they're not missing the playoffs. The Spurs picked up a 2nd All NBA team SG who gives them a legitimate #1 scoring threat to relieve LMA from shouldering the load offensively. Poeltl has a lot of potential and will flourish as a defensive big under Pops. Losing Danny Green and Kyle Anderson sucks, but the team is loaded at G and I just can't see the Spurs dropping from 47 to 37 wins like this writer projected with 2 All-Stars leading the charge this season regardless of how strong the West is. I see a lot of talk about LMA declining this season, but his play style is similar to Dirk's and he's not the smash em up bruiser style, he has several years performing at a high level left in the tank.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Chad

[Goo Punch 4275]

and explain to me how losing Klay to another contender over the last 4 years would have hurt more than losing draymond. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

35 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

you being wrong doesn't offend me. explain to me exactly what it is about draymond's teammates that uplifts him so greatly? quit repeating the same tired BS and explain how his defense, rebounding, and passing would diminish if he played for another team. funny how someone like Dennis Rodman or Ben Wallace was just deemed as being plain old good while draymond aint shit without great teammates. explain yourself.

I dont have to explain to you shit because you know how I stand with Draymond. None of this prattle exists if DG's mouth is even half of the size it already is. hes the guy who bats 8th on a stacked beer league softball line up that doesnt shut up when the score is 27-4. 

 

hes a one of a kind player in this day in age of NBA. I dont think you see a spike in win totals if you put him on the hornets opposed to putting Steph or KD on the Hornets. 

 

DG is better than Ben and Rodman.Ben was abysmal on offense, but he played on a team with good offensive talent while he held down the paint.

Edited August 4, 2018 by MNLonghornFUKM

[Goo Punch 4275]

5 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

I dont have to explain to you shit because you know how I stand with Draymond. None of this prattle exists if DG's mouth is even half of the size it already is. hes the guy who bats 8th on a stacked beer league softball line up that doesnt shut up when the score is 27-4. 

 

hes a one of a kind player in this day in age of NBA. I dont think you see a spike in win totals if you put him on the hornets opposed to putting Steph or KD on the Hornets. 

okay, so you'll talk a bunch of shit but refuse to back any of it up, and then you make comparisons between draymond and steph & kd when the entire conversation is comparing draymond and klay. great stuff all around.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

6 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

okay, so you'll talk a bunch of shit but refuse to back any of it up, and then you make comparisons between draymond and steph & kd when the entire conversation is comparing draymond and klay. great stuff all around.

Yea I'll "talk shit" because hes got a big mouth. When DG fails or is flustered, my heart warms. Hes easy to hate and does a damn good job at making continually easy.

 

Sorry(not sorry) for making DG comparisons to Steph and KD. DG has only had hall of fame, all NBA, multiple all star titles to his resume in this thread. Klay hasnt.

[kopp0e 1135]

5 hours ago, Swearengen said:

Minnesota at 5 seems like a reach to me. I don't know, maybe I'm not giving them enough credit.

When you factor the disfunction brewing in the locker room between both Towns & Butler, that 5 seed looks too high for the 'Wolves...

Edited August 4, 2018 by kopp0e

[SilasCoade 2620]

Not sure why it's hard to accept that playing with 3 legit superstars affects the role Draymond is able to play. He is not asked to exert much energy offensively. Any buckets he gets are generated off the play of the 3 focal points of the offense. He is a legitimately good passer, but the passing lanes are a lot wider when the other team has to cover 3 shooters from 30 feet in. Not having to exert himself on offense allows him to expend more energy on defense, but let's not pretend he's Gary Payton. He's an excellent team defender but he is rarely asked to lock down a player one on one. Even in the post he is largely given mismatches. When the mismatch in size/strength favors him he's called a wizard and when it doesn't he's praised for taking on the challenge of guarding bigger players. If the rest of GSW weren't adept team defenders his stats and perception would suffer.

[Goo Punch 4275]

1 hour ago, Llogg said:

Not sure why it's hard to accept that playing with 3 legit superstars affects the role Draymond is able to play. He is not asked to exert much energy offensively. Any buckets he gets are generated off the play of the 3 focal points of the offense. He is a legitimately good passer, but the passing lanes are a lot wider when the other team has to cover 3 shooters from 30 feet in. Not having to exert himself on offense allows him to expend more energy on defense, but let's not pretend he's Gary Payton. He's an excellent team defender but he is rarely asked to lock down a player one on one. Even in the post he is largely given mismatches. When the mismatch in size/strength favors him he's called a wizard and when it doesn't he's praised for taking on the challenge of guarding bigger players. If the rest of GSW weren't adept team defenders his stats and perception would suffer.

 

lol, "he rests on offense so he gets to look better on defense". first off, no he doesn't. and draymond's defense, rebounding, and passing dont make his teammates' lives easier? it's an all time loaded team with 4 of the top 15 or so players in the league; they all make each other better, and any one of them (not to mention every other player in the league) would have a tougher time playing for some middling eastern conference team than they would playing for the warriors. the only thing i fail to see about your point is it's relevancy. while you're over here stating the obvious and acting as if it's unique to draymond green you're also conveniently avoiding addressing any of the posts related to the actual argument which you started:

 

"Stop. He is not more valuable than Thompson and never has been. He looks better than he is because of who he is privileged to play with."

 

wrong. super wrong. irrefutably wrong. klay has never been more important to the warriors than draymond, you have it completely backwards. klay is a guard/wing player who can score and defend; so is steph; so is kd; they have what klay brings in spades. draymond's mere presence in the lineup uplifts everyone else's game, and yet somehow you say that he's the one being made to look better than he is by his teammates. thats ass backwards. the tape and the numbers don't lie- they lose klay and they have plenty more where that came from. they lose draymond, and not only do they have no other versatile bigs who play the best defense in the nba and who can guard four positions while passing better than any big man this side of jokic, the drop off isn't klay > kd > steph > iguodala, it's draymond > zaza > javale > looney > bell. you couldn't be more wrong on both counts.

 

i'll say again- you take draymond off gs these last 4 years and put him on san antonio or cleveland or houston, and the outcome of those playoffs is changed drastically. aside from putting klay on the 2016 cavs or maybe last year's rockets i'm not sure  anything major changes in that time.  

 

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Goo Punch

[aggie08 21424]

1 hour ago, Llogg said:

Not sure why it's hard to accept that playing with 3 legit superstars affects the role Draymond is able to play. He is not asked to exert much energy offensively. Any buckets he gets are generated off the play of the 3 focal points of the offense. He is a legitimately good passer, but the passing lanes are a lot wider when the other team has to cover 3 shooters from 30 feet in. Not having to exert himself on offense allows him to expend more energy on defense, but let's not pretend he's Gary Payton. He's an excellent team defender but he is rarely asked to lock down a player one on one. Even in the post he is largely given mismatches. When the mismatch in size/strength favors him he's called a wizard and when it doesn't he's praised for taking on the challenge of guarding bigger players. If the rest of GSW weren't adept team defenders his stats and perception would suffer.

Dude, it's not 20 years ago. The game has changed. Being a lockdown individual defender and shot blocking used to be about the only things that people looked at when assessing defensive competency (though, look at the FG% of guys going against Dray and try to tell me that he's NOT also an elite lockdown defender); now, versatility and IQ is considerably more valuable. You need a guy who can guard all 5 positions, be two steps ahead of the opponent's offense, call out rotations, direct off-ball switches to preemptively thwart an offense hunting mismatches, and still rotate back in time to be the final line of defense. No one does any of that like Draymond, and I'm not even sure it's close. Then he'll grab the rebound over someone 5 inches taller than him and push the ball on the break with a numbers advantage because he's faster than your bigs. He's the best--and certainly most impactful--defensive player in the game. 

And the stats back up his mouth, which is pretty damn impressive. Over the past 4 years, LeBron and Steph have been some combination of 1 and 2 in on/off court impact, for obvious reasons: one is arguably the greatest basketball player ever on teams who rely solely upon his playmaking; the other is the most dangerous off-ball offensive threat the league has ever seen in an offense designed entirely around him and the threat of his shooting. The only other player in their stratosphere in on/off court difference is Draymond. Their offense isn't quite the same without him (lulz at saying the lead assist man and primary screener in one of the best passing and moving offenses in NBA history gets to rest on offense), and their defense goes to shit (excluding this past season when he and the rest of the team took the regular season off defensively).

Scoring is important, we get it. Probably THE most important individual skill. But, is you can't grasp the tremendous value of a player who can impact a game probably on a greater scale than anyone else in the league without scoring, then I don't know what to tell you. No, he wouldn't be as highly thought of on the Hawks (would anyone?), but the idea that he needs greatness around him to have a big imprint on a team is laughable. Other than some sweet shooting that made for an entertaining League Pass watch on random Tuesdays in January, there was nothing great about Golden State until he smashed his way into the rotation and helped shape them into what they became. He'd make any offense in the league better, and he'd make any defense in the league elite.

Edited August 4, 2018 by aggie08

[Goo Punch 4275]

my favorite part about how obscenely wrong you are is that you're also a giant dick. "oh no, it's derka. i'm out." yeah, if only. then we could be spared your shitty, flippant, uninformed takes. 

[SilasCoade 2620]

7 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

my favorite part about how obscenely wrong you are is that you're also a giant dick. "oh no, it's derka. i'm out." yeah, if only. then we could be spared your shitty, flippant, uninformed takes. 

See dude, this is why you will always be derka. You take a difference of opinion as some sort of personal attack. The reason I said that was to acknowledge the futility of engaging you in the first place. So again, I'm out when it comes to responding to you.

[Goo Punch 4275]

11 minutes ago, Llogg said:

See dude, this is why you will always be derka. You take a difference of opinion as some sort of personal attack. The reason I said that was to acknowledge the futility of engaging you in the first place. So again, I'm out when it comes to responding to you.

once again, you are ass backwards. saying, "oh shit, it's derka, i'm out" is clearly a personal attack. hello! what bizarro world do you live in where you insult me, proclaim that you're above responding to me, and then convince yourself that *I'm* the one who can't be conversed with?! you are completely delusional here, and you're using it as an excuse to back out of an argument where you know you're on the wrong side. just own your own shit dude. you're the one starting shit. give me a fucking break with your sanctimonious bullshit.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Goo Punch

[Goo Punch 4275]

do you even recall what prompted you to say that in the first place? i said something overzealous about clint capela, and after immediately walking it back you kept bringing it up over and over and over, overtly insulting my intelligence in the process. i had walked it back and continued making cogent points and all you kept doing was going back to that and insulting me over and over. then you found out i was derka and had the gall to say, "oh shit im out, i can't converse with this guy." you're a delusional fucking hypocrite. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Goo Punch

[SilasCoade 2620]

@aggie08 Look at Harrison Barnes. 2015-16 GSW net rating +10.5. 2016-17 DAL net rating -2.1. His average VORP last two seasons with GSW ~1.4. Last two seasons with DAL VORP 0.0. He was looked at as a good get, good defender with offensive upside. Take him out of the GSW system and he's at best JAG. You put Klay on the Spurs in 2014 or 2015 and they are Western conf champs. Draymond wouldn't move the needle that much for those teams as they already had very solid team defense.

[Goo Punch 4275]

8 minutes ago, Llogg said:

@aggie08 Look at Harrison Barnes. 2015-16 GSW net rating +10.5. 2016-17 DAL net rating -2.1. His average VORP last two seasons with GSW ~1.4. Last two seasons with DAL VORP 0.0. He was looked at as a good get, good defender with offensive upside. Take him out of the GSW system and he's at best JAG. You put Klay on the Spurs in 2014 or 2015 and they are Western conf champs. Draymond wouldn't move the needle that much for those teams as they already had very solid team defense.

nobody with a clue thought highly of harrison barnes, and comparing him to draymond green is laughable, they aren't in the same stratosphere.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

36 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Dude, it's not 20 years ago. The game has changed. Being a lockdown individual defender and shot blocking used to be about the only things that people looked at when assessing defensive competency (though, look at the FG% of guys going against Dray and try to tell me that he's NOT also an elite lockdown defender); now, versatility and IQ is considerably more valuable. You need a guy who can guard all 5 positions, be two steps ahead of the opponent's offense, call out rotations, direct off-ball switches to preemptively thwart an offense hunting mismatches, and still rotate back in time to be the final line of defense. No one does any of that like Draymond, and I'm not even sure it's close. Then he'll grab the rebound over someone 5 inches taller than him and push the ball on the break with a numbers advantage because he's faster than your bigs. He's the best--and certainly most impactful--defensive player in the game. 

And the stats back up his mouth, which is pretty damn impressive. Over the past 4 years, LeBron and Steph have been some combination of 1 and 2 in on/off court impact, for obvious reasons: one is arguably the greatest basketball player ever on teams who rely solely upon his playmaking; the other is the most dangerous off-ball offensive threat the league has ever seen in an offense designed entirely around him and the threat of his shooting. The only other player in their stratosphere in on/off court difference is Draymond. Their offense isn't quite the same without him (lulz at saying the lead assist man and primary screener in one of the best passing and moving offenses in NBA history gets to rest on offense), and their defense goes to shit (excluding this past season when he and the rest of the team took the regular season off defensively).

Scoring is important, we get it. Probably THE most important individual skill. But, is you can't grasp the tremendous value of a player who can impact a game probably on a greater scale than anyone else in the league without scoring, then I don't know what to tell you. No, he wouldn't be as highly thought of on the Hawks (would anyone?), but the idea that he needs greatness around him to have a big imprint on a team is laughable. Other than some sweet shooting that made for an entertaining League Pass watch on random Tuesdays in January, there was nothing great about Golden State until he smashed his way into the rotation and helped shape them into what they became. He'd make any offense in the league better, and he'd make any defense in the league elite.

Well. Those guys are going to also need to make their shots. playing with the best shooter of all time and a guy whos capable of scoring 37 points in a quarter makes his impact on offense much more level while comparing what his impact is on defense for the same team.

 

GS finished the season 8-9 after Steph went down. a few of their games, KD/KT and DG all sat, so say they really went 8-6. thats probably a 46 win team. DG should be really stepping up his offense more if hes that skilled and pick up some of Currys slack. not shoot like curry but score more than 2-7 with 9 points and 12 assists.

[aggie08 21424]

27 minutes ago, Llogg said:

@aggie08 Look at Harrison Barnes. 2015-16 GSW net rating +10.5. 2016-17 DAL net rating -2.1. His average VORP last two seasons with GSW ~1.4. Last two seasons with DAL VORP 0.0. He was looked at as a good get, good defender with offensive upside. Take him out of the GSW system and he's at best JAG. You put Klay on the Spurs in 2014 or 2015 and they are Western conf champs. Draymond wouldn't move the needle that much for those teams as they already had very solid team defense.

+10.5, that's cute. He also had a +1 and -3.8 net rating in his two postseasons under Kerr. Though he was a respectable +12.1 the playoffs prior to Kerr's arrival. 

Since 2014, Draymond has posted these net ratings in the playoffs: +28.4, +19.2, +12.3 (would have been Finals' MVP had they held onto Game 7), +18.9 (when KD was expected to marginalize Dray's impact) and +4.0.

Harrison Barnes does not belong in any conversation with Draymond Green.

Shit, in Steph's unanimous MVP season, when he led the league in almost every shooting and efficiency metric imaginable, he posted an absurd +22.2 net rating for the regular season... Draymond's was +25.6.  

You continue to grossly understate Draymond's impact on that team. They wouldn't be "The Warriors" without him. They'd be bigger, slower, more traditional and not as good on either end. Steph's obviously the #1 reason why they made the leap from cute also-ran to champion, but I'd be hard-pressed to put anyone other than Draymond at #2.

[HtownHorn 14468]

5 hours ago, HookEm said:

So SA adds an All-NBA player with marginal losses (over last year's squad) and misses the playoffs? Doubtful.

LeBron goes from making 8 straight finals to missing the playoffs (with arguably a more talented team than last year)?

Okaaaay...

Portland has added nothing interesting. I think they are out. Minnesota may trade Butler. Then they are out too.

The Lakers aren't more talented that last year Cavs, and the West is 50x better than the East.

[SilasCoade 2620]

56 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

+10.5, that's cute. He also had a +1 and -3.8 net rating in his two postseasons under Kerr. Though he was a respectable +12.1 the playoffs prior to Kerr's arrival. 

Since 2014, Draymond has posted these net ratings in the playoffs: +28.4, +19.2, +12.3 (would have been Finals' MVP had they held onto Game 7), +18.9 (when KD was expected to marginalize Dray's impact) and +4.0.

Harrison Barnes does not belong in any conversation with Draymond Green.

Shit, in Steph's unanimous MVP season, when he led the league in almost every shooting and efficiency metric imaginable, he posted an absurd +22.2 net rating for the regular season... Draymond's was +25.6.  

You continue to grossly understate Draymond's impact on that team. They wouldn't be "The Warriors" without him. They'd be bigger, slower, more traditional and not as good on either end. Steph's obviously the #1 reason why they made the leap from cute also-ran to champion, but I'd be hard-pressed to put anyone other than Draymond at #2.

not comparing Barnes and Draymond. Using Barnes to illustrate the impact being on a super team has on individual play.

[aggie08 21424]

10 minutes ago, Llogg said:

not comparing Barnes and Draymond. Using Barnes to illustrate the impact being on a super team has on individual play.

And I'm pointing out that, at some point--usually in the playoffs--you have to step up and actually make plays, and who you have around you can only help so much. Marginal players who are bolstered by their teammates typically don't (see: Harrison Barnes and any Cav not named Kyrie in the NBA Finals). Draymond routinely and consistently does, even before his team was littered with All-Stars.