Jump to content

2018 NBA Offseason Thread -- News, Free Agency, Trades, Etc

Patrick Bateman

By Patrick Bateman
in Basketball

 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 3.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

UDontKnow
UDontKnow

Same way he got his HIV.

Vic Mackey
Vic Mackey

Good lord you can stop this act now. The last 2 seasons, you try and downlplay this superteam you decided to root for. At every turn, you break down this team like they are so flawed and vulnerable. T

Orca of Peace
Orca of Peace

that Klay barrage against OKC changed the shape of the NBA for years. If OKC wins that series, plays CLE and wins the NBA finals, KD stays IMO. Maybe Lebron wins a couple more titles and stays in Clev

dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2724

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

That's only because the right system has been installed. Kerr built that system around his players, and it didn't happy all of a sudden, it did take time. He's basically figured out how best to use this roster, and I think a lot of bad coaches could come in and win a ring with it. At this point, if someone took over for Kerr, it would be akin to Barry Switzer taking over the Cowboys in 95. 

You're saying it took time?  Is one season considered a long time in nba?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
d2o

d2o 1602

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, kopp0e said:

This chick has a pretty solid list, but in my opinion, I would place both Harden & Irvin higher at #4 & #5 , respectively...

 

I cant put Harden or Kyrie over AD cause AD is great on both ends.   Additionally I would have the Freak at least as high as PG

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9843

Posted
Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, d2o said:

I cant put Harden or Kyrie over AD cause AD is great on both ends.   Additionally I would have the Freak at least as high as PG

 

AD maybe, but he hasn't even been able to put together one full great season yet, but Kyrie...over Harden?  I can't imagine many GMs who would take Kyrie over Harden

Edited by ChickenSandwich
Link to comment
Share on other sites
d2o

d2o 1602

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

AD maybe, but he hasn't even been able to put together one full great season yet, but Kyrie...over Harden?  Not a chance

28/11 while leading the league in blocks.   !st team All-NBA, 1st team All -defense 3rd in MVP voting this past season.   Does that not qualify as a great full season?

 

Actually he's pretty much had those same numbers for the last two seasons straight.    He gets nicked seemingly often so maybe that is what you mean but he has played 75 gms that last two yrs in a row.

 

Oh and I said I had  Kyrie over Harden.

 

Edited by d2o
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
d2o

d2o 1602

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, d2o said:

28/11 while leading the league in blocks.   !st team All-NBA, 1st team All -defense 3rd in MVP voting this past season.   Does that not qualify as a great full season?

 

Actually he's pretty much had those same numbers for the last two seasons straight.    He gets nicked seemingly often so maybe that is what you mean but he has played 75 gms that last two yrs in a row.

 

Oh and I said I had  Kyrie over Harden.

 

Dammit!  I never said I had Kyrie over Harden.   Can't edit that post again for some reason

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
UTDD

UTDD 362

Posted
Posted
On 8/21/2018 at 2:17 AM, kopp0e said:

This chick has a pretty solid list, but in my opinion, I would place both Harden & Irvin higher at #4 & #5 , respectively...

 

I think that list isn't too bad at all, although everyone will have disagreements.  I think right now going into this season I would have:

 

1. LBJ - I think he has been the best player in the NBA since at least 2009 or so, and arguably even earlier.  Clearly a Top 5 (I'd argue even higher) player all-time, clearly best player of his generation, the gap between him any anyone else in his era for an overall career is IMHO fairly large.  A GOAT level team is preventing him from more titles, that's just how it goes for him and why he won't catch Jordan.  98

2. Durant - Despite his weird social media stuff, he seems like a good guy and his talent is unreal.  I think like Shaq he is actually slightly underachieving for his natural talent because I think he arguably be like Michael Jordan dominant for scoring.  His physical tools for that skill might be the best I have ever seen.  96

3. Curry - I think he had an argument for best player in the world in 2016 (GOAT level offensive season IMHO) even over LeBron for that one season, but his playoff performances have him under Durant for me personally.  His gravity is crucial for Golden State's system, you can't be as dominant without it and the RPM and other advanced metrics clearly show that for their system.  96

4. Kawhi - HUGE if healthy of course.   You have to wonder about his mental game a little and his injury, and how he will play this season on a very good Toronto team that defensively looks really good on paper.  94   I also see numbers 4-6 on this list as very easy to argue one over another without sounding like a fool.  It's very close for all three.

5. Davis - Just stay healthy and just get this man some help, and he will shine even more.  94  

6. Harden - Maybe the best trickster in terms of drawing fouls I have seen in a long time since Ginobili.  He has a knack for getting to the line that is amazing to me and frustrating to watch if you are not a Harden fan.  Elite scorer, very close to elite passer as he truly can play both PG/SG without a hitch.  I think Durant and Curry are clearly better but in some ways I think Harden can handle being a solo act and having a huge burden to carry a team a little better than players ranker higher than him.  94

7.  Giannis - The future.  Needs a better outside shot.  I like his mental makeup, he is not as worrisome as some other big stars of this era. 93

8.  Westbrook - Many will have him higher, but I think his brain hasn't quite caught up to his talent yet in terms of maximizing his own talent (especially on his drives, he sometimes could actually slow down just right to get an and 1 like Iverson learned as he got older) and the talent around him.  Still, averaging a triple double is frankly amazing and I love his fearlessness and motor, if say Shaq had that motor I would have feared for the rest of the league and perhaps the 2002 Kings wouldn't have been jobbed by the refs because maybe it wouldn't have been needed.  93

9. Jokic - Severely underrated by many people, his skills overall are so great for a big man.  Everyone is rightfully excited about the KATs and Embiids of the world, but this guy can seriously play and is a walking triple double threat but can the team get in the playoffs and do some damage to get him more due? 92

10. Embiid - Defensively already an elite player, some of his offensive footwork and especially his turnovers need a lot of work.  I like his brashness a lot, and it's likely his own teammate will also be on this list in the near future as well.  92  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
BigOrange1

BigOrange1 6442

Posted
Posted

1. Lebron

2. Durant

3. Curry

4. Harden

5. Davis

6. Kawhi

7. Westbrook

8. Giannis

9. Kyrie

10. Embiid

Notes:

  • I think that Kawhi and Davis are probably better overall players than Harden, but Harden has achieved much more success than Davis for sure and he is more durable than both of them so he gets the nod in my book.
  • I wouldn't want Westbrook as my team's #1 player, but i don't think it's fair to put anyone else above him.  He is unquestionably one of the 10 best overall players on the planet, and no one who is behind him for me is more accomplished than Westbrook.
  • Kyrie is fascinating.  I'm not sure he's one of the 10 best players in the world, but he steps up on the biggest stage, has the best handle in the NBA and is one of the best shot makers i have ever seen.  If I need a bucket late, I'm not sure there is a player in the league I'd rather give the ball to than Kyrie.  That means something. 
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
d2o

d2o 1602

Posted
Posted
56 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

1. Lebron

2. Durant

3. Curry

4. Harden

5. Davis

6. Kawhi

7. Westbrook

8. Giannis

9. Kyrie

10. Embiid

Notes:

  • I think that Kawhi and Davis are probably better overall players than Harden, but Harden has achieved much more success than Davis for sure and he is more durable than both of them so he gets the nod in my book.
  • I wouldn't want Westbrook as my team's #1 player, but i don't think it's fair to put anyone else above him.  He is unquestionably one of the 10 best overall players on the planet, and no one who is behind him for me is more accomplished than Westbrook.
  • Kyrie is fascinating.  I'm not sure he's one of the 10 best players in the world, but he steps up on the biggest stage, has the best handle in the NBA and is one of the best shot makers i have ever seen.  If I need a bucket late, I'm not sure there is a player in the league I'd rather give the ball to than Kyrie.  That means something. 

yep, he is the best non-dunking finisher the game has ever seen IMO.    He makes ridiculous shots look effortless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
aggie08

aggie08 21505

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, BigOrange1 said:
  • Kyrie is fascinating.  I'm not sure he's one of the 10 best players in the world, but he steps up on the biggest stage, has the best handle in the NBA and is one of the best shot makers i have ever seen.  If I need a bucket late, I'm not sure there is a player in the league I'd rather give the ball to than Kyrie.  That means something. 

I'm probably the closest it gets to a Kyrie "hater" around here--his offensive greatness doesn't elevate others; if you want to know what it means when someone says a player "dies on screens" defensively, Kyrie is example 1A; he doesn't have the leadership qualities that you get from other guys on a Top 10 list; he's got a little too much Kobe in him, and not just the desire to beat an entire defense on his own, but the showmanship to sometimes make a move or shot harder than it has to be--but I don't fault anyone for putting him in their Top 10, even if he's probably closer to 20 than 10 on mine (still think Boston should have traded him for Kawhi).  Being one of the 4-5 guys in the league who you can give the ball to and say, "Go get me a bucket," regardless of the moment, means a whole hell of lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3917

Posted
  • Author
Posted

That would be an interesting question..... Kyrie is 2 years younger but much more brittle with a degenerative knee.  One is an elite defender who's offense is inconsistent.  The other is an elite offensive player who's defense is usually poor (he does have his moments).  Depends on the medicals as Kyrie has missed over 60 games (+ playoffs) the last 3 seasons.  I think most GMs would prefer the scorer although Kyrie doesn't influence much outside of the court.  He's a strange dude.  Meanwhile, even though he's a dbag, most of his teammates love Draymond.... really interesting question.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
HookEm

HookEm 2467

Posted
Posted

I would take Draymond all day every day. Top 3-4 defender in the NBA, but also one of the best passing bigs we have had in the last 20 years.

Much easier to find a decent PG than to replicate what Draymond brings to the table.

Who wins:
Rozier + Draymond (or)
Kyrie + Tristan Thompson

Link to comment
Share on other sites
d2o

d2o 1602

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, HookEm said:

I would take Draymond all day every day. Top 3-4 defender in the NBA, but also one of the best passing bigs we have had in the last 20 years.

Much easier to find a decent PG than to replicate what Draymond brings to the table.

Who wins:
Rozier + Draymond (or)
Kyrie + Tristan Thompson

I would really hope for a better option than either to start a team honestly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13045

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, HookEm said:

I would take Draymond all day every day. Top 3-4 defender in the NBA, but also one of the best passing bigs we have had in the last 20 years.

Much easier to find a decent PG than to replicate what Draymond brings to the table.

Who wins:
Rozier + Draymond (or)
Kyrie + Tristan Thompson

As pointing out in the this thread, I love me some DG. That being said I think I go with Kyrie. DG has incredible game, is the leagues best defender, and directs an offense so incredibly well. However, Kyrie is one of very few guys in the league that can create their own shot at will and I’m of the opinion that you cannot win a title without one of those kind of guys, at least in the current NBA landscape.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
UTDD

UTDD 362

Posted
Posted
On 8/22/2018 at 1:42 PM, BigOrange1 said:

1. Lebron

2. Durant

3. Curry

4. Harden

5. Davis

6. Kawhi

7. Westbrook

8. Giannis

9. Kyrie

10. Embiid

Notes:

  • I think that Kawhi and Davis are probably better overall players than Harden, but Harden has achieved much more success than Davis for sure and he is more durable than both of them so he gets the nod in my book.
  • I wouldn't want Westbrook as my team's #1 player, but i don't think it's fair to put anyone else above him.  He is unquestionably one of the 10 best overall players on the planet, and no one who is behind him for me is more accomplished than Westbrook.
  • Kyrie is fascinating.  I'm not sure he's one of the 10 best players in the world, but he steps up on the biggest stage, has the best handle in the NBA and is one of the best shot makers i have ever seen.  If I need a bucket late, I'm not sure there is a player in the league I'd rather give the ball to than Kyrie.  That means something. 

Kyrie is a really interesting debate internally for me.  I am heavily biased towards Duke players just as much as UT players already from my background, and I think he is just so fearless and clutch when it counts.  Maybe the best handle I have ever seen, certainly the best in the NBA right now.  His brain is a lot more like Jordan/Kobe than Durant/LeBron and that's a good thing to me even though he will never be as good as the latter two players.  My only concern in not slamming him into the top 10 quite easily are his durability and defensive concerns.    

Link to comment
Share on other sites
UTDD

UTDD 362

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, HookEm said:

To be clear, I think Kyrie is the better player. I just think Draymond is the more VALUABLE player due to the uniqueness of what he brings to the table.

I'm right there with you there too.  Just an interesting stat - Top 50 analysis for careers weighting plus/minus called "impact plus/minus stat" which is closely correlated with certain other stats like RAPM (real adjusted plus minus), but basically an attempt to quantify player impact all-time in the NBA.  Weights peak ever, top 3 seasons, top 5 seasons, etc.  Certainly not a be all end all statistical ranking, but it's interesting to see Draymond at # 19 all-time which makes sense to me personally.

 

Image

Link to comment
Share on other sites
UTDD

UTDD 362

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Any list with mookie blaylock can't be wrong

Certainly no stat in isolation is something that should ever be considered as definite as to anything except what that actual stat is specifically measuring.  Virtually any analytic can be cherry picked apart so to speak with isolated anomalies that do not make sense with one's general sense of basketball knowledge and one's own eye test if you have a good mind for the game.  PER for example is another stat commonly used by casual fans, but that stat as well shows anomalous entries with players that don't seem to fit well.  Even others like VORP (value over replacement) and BPM often show this as well.  Some stats that are not commonly shared with the public (prepared specifically for NBA teams privately) are quite advanced in the specific factors they want, but even those suffer the same flaw as all stats depend on variables that simply cannot apply well to all situations in terms of rating something that cannot be measured by that single stat.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

Posted
Posted (edited)

Kyrie is essentially the optimal version of Melo if he were a pg. i put him in a similar class as westbrook, boogie, paul george, damon lillard, etc- impossible to deny the individual talent, and may even be clutch, but he can't lead your team to a title, and his impact on his teammates is at times dubious. 

 

which is is why i'm taking draymond green- he's only the best defender in the league, the best passing big aside from jokic, the most versatile player aside from lebron and giannis, and a winner who makes winning plays in big moments. to me the question only has one clear answer.

Edited by Goo Punch
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

Posted
Posted
On 8/24/2018 at 10:37 AM, Goo Punch said:

Kyrie is essentially the optimal version of Melo if he were a pg. i put him in a similar class as westbrook, boogie, paul george, damon lillard, etc- impossible to deny the individual talent, and may even be clutch, but he can't lead your team to a title, and his impact on his teammates is at times dubious. 

 

which is is why i'm taking draymond green- he's only the best defender in the league, the best passing big aside from jokic, the most versatile player aside from lebron and giannis, and a winner who makes winning plays in big moments. to me the question only has one clear answer.

This generations Dennis Rodman...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Swearengen said:

Never go full retard

It's a race no one should have to journey alone...

giphy.gif

In honesty I think Dennis is a level above Dray, but that also leaves out the difference in officiating in games these days, as in the days of Rodman, there was more grinding defenses...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

Posted
Posted

It is certainly a narrative pushed by the media at this time, the youth of today has no idea what the lacked witnessing in the 90's era of aggressive defense by "The Worm"...

Quote

Dennis Rodman's Legacy: Draymond Green Before Draymond Green ...

Jun 6, 2018 - Which Dennis Rodman should we remember? The unselfish, relentless Hall of Famer that was ahead of his time? Or the one popping up on ...

Here is a video displaying the common characteristics of the 2 on the court:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Swearengen

Swearengen 17

Posted
Posted (edited)

I decided to look up the numbers instead of just preaching my opinion. so according to basketball-reference.com their career numbers are as followed:

RODMAN:

Games- 911, Seasons- 14

FG- 3, FGA- 5.8, FG% .521

2pt- 2.9, 2ptA- 5.4, eFG% .529

3pt- .1, 3ptA- .04, 3pt% .231

FT- 1.2, FTA- 2, FT% .584

ORB- 4.8, DRB- 8.4 AST- 1.8

STL- .7, BLK -.6, PTS 7.3

2x all star. 7x RBD champ. 2x all NBA. 8x all defensive. 2x def poy

GREEN:

Games- 70, Seasons- 6

FG- 3.3, FGA-7.6, FG% .438

2pt- 2.4, 2ptA- 4.8, eFG% .500

3pt- .9, 3ptA- 2.9, 3pt% .327

FT- 1.7, FTA- 2.3, FT% .707

ORB- 1.2, DRB- 5.7, AST- 4.6

STL- 1.4 BLK- 1.1, PTS- 9.3

3x all star. 1x STL champ. 2x all NBA. 4x all defensive. 1x def poy.

 

Now, without question, Dennis Rodman was one of the greatest defenders of all time. 8x all defensive speaks to that. Also, one of the greatest rebounders of all time. A true elite. 13+ rebounds a game is fucking ridiculous. And despite attempting so few shots has both a respectable  FG% and eFG%. The man is a hall of famer, a beast on the court. Fucked Madonna when that was actually worth braging about and has one of the most appropriate nicknames of all time. You will hear no argument from me about the greatness of Dennis Rodman.

 

HOWEVER, to dismiss Draymond Green as a poor mans Rodman is ridiculous and patently wrong. Green is a cog in one of the most dynamic offenses in NBA history. 4.6 AST as a PF is insane. He is a undersized defender just like the worm and is one of the best in the game. 4x all defensive team in only 6 seasons. He doesn't rebound as well as Rodman, again very few do, but with 1.4 STLs and 1.1 BLKs a game his numbers stack up more than well when compared to Rodman. And a 1x STL champ at 6'9" is Hakeem levels of good. Also, Green's numbers across the board in regards to 3pt shooting are highly superior to Rodman's.

Like I said, you get no argument from me about the greatness of Dennis Rodman. But Draymond Green is the evolution of Rodman. He's Rodman 3.0. He is a PF that facilitates his team's offense and shoots 3s at a .327 clip. He is might not rebound like the worm, but he is far superior on the offensive end of the court.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Swearengen
spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, kopp0e said:

It's a race no one should have to journey alone...

giphy.gif

In honesty I think Dennis is a level above Dray, but that also leaves out the difference in officiating in games these days, as in the days of Rodman, there was more grinding defenses...

 

above Dray? As a rebounder, sure. As an overall player? Not close. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

above Dray? As a rebounder, sure. As an overall player? Not close. 

Rodman was great & perfected two things: rebounds & irritating opponents... Draymond is great at two things: rebounding while irritating opponents & de facto leader, the former was the job of Jordan in the "running of the Bulls" era... Both great players, and Dray will get more credit once he retires, and folks look back on his career as a whole for his contributions...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing


Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Futbol ... 🤫995🤫 ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Business and Markets ... Cloak Room ... Help ... For Sale ... Board Discussion ... Subscribe!... Donate!... Advertise... COOKIE MONSTER!

×
×
  • Create New...