2018 NBA Offseason Thread -- News, Free Agency, Trades, Etc

[Dutchrudder 11115]

He could have opted out and signed a deal in Free Agency which would have paid him about 10 million more this season, that's his sacrifice from his perspective, a S&T with 2 and 1 PTO.  Both sides will have their perspectives, but I wouldn't fuck around too much.  Doesn't sound like Lebron is considering Houston and there will be other suitors....
 

He could have, but how many teams would have been able to offer him Max money with cap space? Any of those remotely close to competing for a championship? No? Ok then. I guess that just illustrates how hard it is to build a contender. You want to win, then you can't hurt your teams ability to build a roster around you.

The Clippers never offered him a supermax and he didn't want to be there after Doc chose keeping his son on the team over trading him for a better player. That was one of the many problems with that team. Houston was a good spot to land, up and coming team with a young star.

If CP wants money, he can go get it. If he wants a ring, then the Lakers aren't the place to get it this year, but a good place to have fun and make 200m. If the lakers are willing to flip pieces and make some trades it might work. But he need LeBron+Kawhi/PG To have a chance.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

7 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Does Chris Paul believe his one season with the Rockets including missing the two most important playoff games of the past 20 years, entitles him to $25M+ guaranteed for more than 4 years when he’s 38, averaging 10/7 in 25 mpg for the half season he plays?

25m?  Thought these new max deals started at 35.

[Dutchrudder 11115]

Yeah, it's currently 5 years 210m for a Chris Paul Max deal. 90m of that is earned in the last 2 years. Starts just below 40m in year 1.

[Murfdogg21 4412]

My bad. I’m ignorant. Makes the contract only worse IMO. If they don’t get a third star player this offseason, they should let CP3 walk if he won’t come to terms on a reasonable contract extension limited to only 2-3 years guaranteed. No reason to enter salary cap purgatory to perpetually be the #3-5 seed with no chance of beating GS superteam and possibly a LAL superteam. 

[TommyGufano 6021]

10 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

The Clippers weren't giving him a supermax to begin with. He hasn't sacrificed anything. If he wants 4 years 140m from another team in free agency, he can go find it. KD is willing to take $10m paycuts to win rings, why they fuck won't Chris Paul? At least make the last year or two team options and it's all good, but the team can't do it with no protections.

 

Optics of taking a dollar less than he can get when he's the president of the players' union are terrible. If he's serving that role in good faith, he owes to every member of NBPA to get max.  From The Empty Nobility of "Taking Less" :

Quote

but in short, Durant’s pay cut didn’t make the Livingston and Iguodala extensions possible, it made them cheaper, both in terms of the Warriors’ overall salary outlay and in terms of their luxury tax bill.

Quote

"Durant’s decision makes it painfully clear that it will always be the players who have to make ‘sacrifices,’ never the owners."

Quote

As little as $10 million means to Durant, or $20 million to Nowitzki, it means even less to Lacob and Mavericks owner Mark Cuban.

Quote

Under the leadership of Chris Paul, the players’ union has fought for provisions like the supermax contract (which benefits superstars and teams) instead of using that negotiating capital to go after something, like abolishing the draft or restricted free agency, or even a higher percentage of revenue, that would have been a greater benefit to the union’s poorest members. Even among workers, the rich exploit the poor.

 

[Jhawk 1075]

melo told thunder he is staying. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Jhawk

[d2o 1602]

"Durant’s decision makes it painfully clear that it will always be the players who have to make ‘sacrifices,’ never the owners."

 

 

Exactly this.  And the owners have fans convinced that players are "greedy" for wanting max deals .   I still maintain that publicizing what the players make was one of the worst things ever.

[conVINCEd 21468]

41 minutes ago, d2o said:

"Durant’s decision makes it painfully clear that it will always be the players who have to make ‘sacrifices,’ never the owners."

 

 

Exactly this.  And the owners have fans convinced that players are "greedy" for wanting max deals .   I still maintain that publicizing what the players make was one of the worst things ever.

If you're gonna have a salary cap, you gotta have transparency.

[d2o 1602]

14 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

If you're gonna have a salary cap, you gotta have transparency.

 I disagree completely but their salaries were made public long before the salary cap.   It was done to pit the average joe against the players and has worked extremely well.  

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

11 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

He could have, but how many teams would have been able to offer him Max money with cap space? Any of those remotely close to competing for a championship? No? Ok then. I guess that just illustrates how hard it is to build a contender. You want to win, then you can't hurt your teams ability to build a roster around you.

The Clippers never offered him a supermax and he didn't want to be there after Doc chose keeping his son on the team over trading him for a better player. That was one of the many problems with that team. Houston was a good spot to land, up and coming team with a young star.

If CP wants money, he can go get it. If he wants a ring, then the Lakers aren't the place to get it this year, but a good place to have fun and make 200m. If the lakers are willing to flip pieces and make some trades it might work. But he need LeBron+Kawhi/PG To have a chance.

Boston, San Antonio, and Denver were all expected to pursue him if it got to taking meetings in FA.  It didn't and Morey, to his credit, convinced him to go to Houston.  Again, he could have simply been an S&T to a new destination which opened up a lot of places.  Look how Kyrie got to Boston.

And I'd assume Paul considers a place to get the most money, considering this has been his platform as the NBAPA President, while competing for a title with someone like Lebron could be a viable alternative.  I have no idea what happens and I think Houston and Paul work it out, but I do think that Rich Paul is going to try and get in his ear.

Moving on..... Last week it was reported Tedosic was going to opt out.  Guess his agent didn't like the landscape.  Now it's in the Clippers court.

 

[Message Board User 12389]

Players are realizing there's only a handful of teams with real cap space so they're all opting in; the landscape in 2019 will be far more inviting for free agents.

[Slacks 6791]

Houston not taking care of CP3 would be bad business. Really bad.

Fertitta and Morey seem to be the types that can think past their nose.

[Slacks 6791]

"Durant’s decision makes it painfully clear that it will always be the players who have to make ‘sacrifices,’ never the owners."
 
 
Exactly this.  And the owners have fans convinced that players are "greedy" for wanting max deals .   I still maintain that publicizing what the players make was one of the worst things ever.

Announcing what players make is free advertising of stardom in a culture that celebrates stars... watch what happens when Nike and Budweiser decide to invest in MLS.

C.R.E.A.M.

[Vic Mackey 46932]

[Ricky Butler 2657]

4 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Boston, San Antonio, and Denver were all expected to pursue him if it got to taking meetings in FA.  It didn't and Morey, to his credit, convinced him to go to Houston.  Again, he could have simply been an S&T to a new destination which opened up a lot of places.  Look how Kyrie got to Boston.

And I'd assume Paul considers a place to get the most money, considering this has been his platform as the NBAPA President, while competing for a title with someone like Lebron could be a viable alternative.  I have no idea what happens and I think Houston and Paul work it out, but I do think that Rich Paul is going to try and get in his ear.

Moving on..... Last week it was reported Tedosic was going to opt out.  Guess his agent didn't like the landscape.  Now it's in the Clippers court.

 

I think they work it out as well, but you're right that CP3 helped the Rockets last season. Now they have to make good.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

If you wonder why some teams are always in the lottery..... look no farther than these two picks and their history.

Quote

The Suns will renounce the rights to Elfrid Payton and Alex Len, according to Scott Bordow of the Arizona Republic.

The Suns won't be able to make this official until July, but will make them free agents. Pheonix drafting DeAndre Ayton secured Len's fate, who was playing on a qualifying offer. Payton only shot 43.5 percent from the field and 20 percent from deep during his time with the Suns. Expect both of these guys to find landing spots with other teams before the 2018-19 season tips off.

Knicks fans are actually hoping he opts out..... They really want to tank.  

 

[d2o 1602]

2 hours ago, Snacks said:

Houston not taking care of CP3 would be bad business. Really bad.

Fertitta and Morey seem to be the types that can think past their nose.

correct.   good luck getting another big time FA if they dont keep their word

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

 

[BigOrange1 6422]

the pacers have options on bogdanovic ($10.5 mill), collison ($10m), jefferson ($10m) and lance ($4.36m) as well as a couple of guys still on their rookie deals (anigbogu and poythress).  assuming they pick them all up except jefferson's and that thaddeus young picks up his $13.7 million option for next season, they should have right around $20 million in cap space.  they have to be the best team with real cap space this summer.  will be interesting to see what they do to improve their team.

[BigOrange1 6422]

also i have no idea why any of you are paying attention to broussard.  you should know better.  here is a report from an actual respected nba journalist:

Quote

It’s only natural to wonder if James might partner with his best friend and fellow free agent in Paul, and we’ve been wondering for six months or so if that might be the case. But while the Rockets appear resigned to the fact that James won’t be coming their way, they also remain fully confident that Paul is going nowhere.

When Paul pushed his way from the Clippers to the Rockets via trade last June, there was a mutual understanding about how his next contract would look. It remains to be seen if it comes in the form of a five-year, $205 million max deal – one that would have him making a whopping $46.7 million in the final year of the deal while nearing the age of 38 – but there remains a strong sense within Rockets circles that he’s staying put.

As for the recent report from Fox Sports’ Chris Broussard that there are rising tensions between the two sides because Paul wants the full max and isn’t sure if he’ll get it, two people with knowledge of the situation refuted the idea there is any friction between the sides. The people spoke to USA TODAY Sports on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation.

If it’s any indication, Paul is part of the Rockets contingent expected to be on hand for the TNT awards in Los Angeles on Monday to help his co-star, James Harden, celebrate the MVP award that is widely expected to be coming his way. What’s more, Paul recently bought a new house in the Houston area. As for the prospect of James joining him, it’s looking highly unlikely.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/06/23/lebron-james-free-agent-chris-paul-kawhi-leonard-paul-george/728017002/

[Dutchrudder 11115]

If CP3 is good with the last 2 years of that 5 year supermax being Team Options, I'd be fine with it. 3 years 130 million is some good money regardless of what he makes in years 4 and 5. I don't see why any team should have to pay for 2 years worth of retirement, this isn't the MLB.  Or make year 4 guaranteed if he's the Finals MVP

[Murfdogg21 4412]

No shit. I get that some future free agents may not trust the Rockets, but at the end of the day money talks, right? Houston should be resigned to salary cap graveyard in years 4 and 5 of the deal and “tank for whoever” just so CP3 is happy in 2018-2019? You believe hypothetical free agent XYZ will turn down the Rockets’ max offer in 2021 because CP3 didn’t get paid $46 million guaranteed when he was 38 years old?

[Radical Larry 28528]

[Ricky Butler 2657]

3 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

No shit. I get that some future free agents may not trust the Rockets, but at the end of the day money talks, right? Houston should be resigned to salary cap graveyard in years 4 and 5 of the deal and “tank for whoever” just so CP3 is happy in 2018-2019? You believe hypothetical free agent XYZ will turn down the Rockets’ max offer in 2021 because CP3 didn’t get paid $46 million guaranteed when he was 38 years old?

I don't think anyone knows what the numbers will be. It's all speculation. We're just saying that it seems like some sort of handshake, wink wink agreement was probably made last year. That trade was too complicated to get done without a lot of "collaboration" between CP3 and Morey.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

Well done for Denver.  Their main priority in the offseason was to extend Jokic and looks like they'll get it done.  By the way, did any team have a more boom or bust draft than Denver???  Holy shit!  Not only did they take the biggest question mark in the draft in Porter, who may require a redshirt year but they traded up in the 2nd round to take Jarrod Vanderbilt, a guy who has injured his foot 3 times in the last 18 months or so and is already back in a boot.... Both are crazy talented so if they hit, they may be a championship contender in 3-4 years.  If they bust, then Denver probably never takes the next step from first round fodder....

 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

DJA, Kanter, and of course, Paul George's are the big ones.....

Reinforces my thought that he has a tight plan and priority list.  Lakers, Philly, and Cavs in some order with the LA being the favorite.

[Sgt. Slaughter 2841]

25 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Well done for Denver.  Their main priority in the offseason was to extend Jokic and looks like they'll get it done.  By the way, did any team have a more boom or bust draft than Denver???  Holy shit!  Not only did they take the biggest question mark in the draft in Porter, who may require a redshirt year but they traded up in the 2nd round to take Jarrod Vanderbilt, a guy who has injured his foot 3 times in the last 18 months or so and is already back in a boot.... Both are crazy talented so if they hit, they may be a championship contender in 3-4 years.  If they bust, then Denver probably never takes the next step from first round fodder....

 

That’s a bit rash, most teams don’t falter because of a failed second rounder. First rounders past 10 are a crapshoot anyways.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

5 minutes ago, Sgt. Slaughter said:

That’s a bit rash, most teams don’t falter because of a failed second rounder. First rounders past 10 are a crapshoot anyways.

Is it?  Although there are different ways to build a contender, most small market teams are built through the draft.  Denver's drafts have been very inconsistent.  They hit on Harris and Jokic, but waste the Mudiay pick.  They seem to have got a good one in Murray, but haven't really got much out of the other 2 first rounders from 2016 (still time).  It's hard for a team like Denver, who's capped out and not much of a FA destination to miss so much on their drafts.... I gave them credit and have them progressing into a playoff team but it's hard to take the next step wasting drafts and time.... especially if they don't like to pay the luxury tax.  However, if Porter (who is a top 5 talent) and Vanderbilt (who is probably a top 25 talent) hit, then you really got something....

Also interesting, Denver drafted the Jazz core for them in Gobert and Mitchell...... both traded on draft day.

 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

LOL Lakers..... I will say, in some ways, George sort of controls the FA market in a domino effect.

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/25/la-lakers-paul-george-free-agent-recruitment?xid=socialflow_twitter_si&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sinow

Quote

An apparent recruiting pitch was leaked to SI.com's Robin Lundberg and it is in form of a voiceover the Lakers plan on using with video.

The person recruited to do the voiceover was told that it should be "less Morgan Freeman/Denzel Washington, and more Jamie Foxx."

The pitch entitled "Two Dreams" makes hints about who the pitch is for.

The text reads:

When you were just a kid

In your room
Dreaming from Palmdale

We were dreaming too.

While you dreamt, we built - built for your arrival

And while we dreamt, you built too
Becoming one of the world's greatest.

Life's most powerful dream are the one we realize ourselves. 

The ones that turn us into legends.
That kid from Palmdale always knew it
Now the world will, too

Of course, George grew up in Palmdale, Calif. and played his college ball at Fresno State.

George, 28, averaged 21.9 points, 5.7 rebounds and 3.3 assists in 79 games this season for the Thunder.

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Patrick Bateman

[Slacks 6791]

4 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

No shit. I get that some future free agents may not trust the Rockets, but at the end of the day money talks, right? Houston should be resigned to salary cap graveyard in years 4 and 5 of the deal and “tank for whoever” just so CP3 is happy in 2018-2019? You believe hypothetical free agent XYZ will turn down the Rockets’ max offer in 2021 because CP3 didn’t get paid $46 million guaranteed when he was 38 years old?

Murfdoggy-dogg...  Free agents have been turning down the Rockets for years. They've had to trade for players. Dwight Howard signed as a UFA, and people celebrated, because no high-level UFA had signed here in forever...  Chris Paul effectively said, "I want to be traded to Houston," so it was quasi-FA.

D12 was sent packing a year after making it to the WCF... but nobody gives a shit about D12.

If Chris Paul doesn't get good, Houston will be back to only being able to acquire via trade wizardry.

If Chris Paul is unreasonable, then so be it... but there's a number that fits.

I've said it many times, if you want high level UFA's, you must already have a core in place and be winning, or you must overpay.  Houston has never had a core. It does now with James (and maybe Clint if he stays?) Houston needs CP3 more than CP3 needs Houston.  Understand the leverage and get the deal done.

 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

27 minutes ago, Snacks said:

Murfdoggy-dogg...  Free agents have been turning down the Rockets for years. They've had to trade for players. Dwight Howard signed as a UFA, and people celebrated, because no high-level UFA had signed here in forever...  Chris Paul effectively said, "I want to be traded to Houston," so it was quasi-FA.

D12 was sent packing a year after making it to the WCF... but nobody gives a shit about D12.

If Chris Paul doesn't get good, Houston will be back to only being able to acquire via trade wizardry.

If Chris Paul is unreasonable, then so be it... but there's a number that fits.

I've said it many times, if you want high level UFA's, you must already have a core in place and be winning, or you must overpay.  Houston has never had a core. It does now with James (and maybe Clint if he stays?) Houston needs CP3 more than CP3 needs Houston.  Understand the leverage and get the deal done.

 

With Lebron seemingly not having interest in Houston, I have to think the Rockets will now match any offer sheet to Capela..... even a max offer sheet.

[Slacks 6791]

12 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

With Lebron seemingly not having interest in Houston, I have to think the Rockets will now match any offer sheet to Capela..... even a max offer sheet.

They should do that, anyway. Without Capela or equivalent, the Rockets would be a 5 seed at best. They have ZERO on the interior.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

1 minute ago, Snacks said:

They should do that, anyway. Without Capela or equivalent, the Rockets would be a 5 seed at best. They have ZERO on the interior.

If they were going to after or felt they were going to get Lebron, there were a few scenarios where they couldn't have matched a max offer but now, I agree, it seems like a no-brainer.  Run it back and use your MLE on another piece.

[Slacks 6791]

1 minute ago, Patrick Bateman said:

If they were going to after or felt they were going to get Lebron, there were a few scenarios where they couldn't have matched a max offer but now, I agree, it seems like a no-brainer.  Run it back and use your MLE on another piece.

Yeah, poison pill and whatnot... you don't have to take it if you have LBJ. 

But if you expect to have MDA and Harden around for a while, you sign Clint (and Cliff) now and keep it moving... 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

Hmmm...... The Decision rebooted.

"Decision" indeed..... Do you do this to go back to OKC?  Weird.

 

[Dutchrudder 11115]

Gotta capitalize on those Lakers fanbase ratings. His decision is the easiest one to make. Might as well live and play in LA for 4 years 160m if you aren't going to win anything. 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Dutchrudder

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

14 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

Gotta capitalize on those Lakers fanbase ratings. His decision is the easiest one to make. Might as well live and play in LA for 4 years 160m if you aren't going to win anything. 

It can be interpreted both ways I guess...... Seemingly he's made a decision without meeting with the Lakers.... or he already made a decision he wants to go home.  I have no idea and I have already said, he sort of controls the biggest pieces of free agency, but this guy..... Guess he liked The Decision.

Poooooorrrrrr Lance.  In some way, I want him to go to wherever Lebron ends up.  Perfect pair!  Odd couple.

 

[Dutchrudder 11115]

"Lebron and Lance" could be a good buddy-cop show if they both wind up in LA. A good cop, evil cop scenario

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

Shelvin Mack cut.  Magic gonna trot 5 PF/C's out there.  

 

[Ricky Butler 2657]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

With Lebron seemingly not having interest in Houston, I have to think the Rockets will now match any offer sheet to Capela..... even a max offer sheet.

What is the max for Capela? Man, the Rockets are going to have an expensive offseason just to run back the same team.

[BigOrange1 6422]

wow, that's kind of surprising about the pacers not picking up stephenson's option.  

[Mitch Cumsteen 18523]

Most teams are capped out. It's going to be a buyers market this off season. Once the Lebron and PG dominoes fall, all the free agents are going to be fighting over scraps. I'm guessing that there will be some good deals to be had toward the end of the summer.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

4 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Most teams are capped out. It's going to be a buyers market this off season. Once the Lebron and PG dominoes fall, all the free agents are going to be fighting over scraps. I'm guessing that there will be some good deals to be had toward the end of the summer.

Agreed..... PG and Lebron go to the Lakers somehow (S&T or UFA) and then the money gets tight for free agents who want to go to a playoff clubs.  Dallas, who may be close, and then teams like ATL and Sacramento.  Indy and Philly can add some nice pieces but not a max guy without shedding some salary.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Patrick Bateman

[BigOrange1 6422]

my guess is that the trade market is where we'll see the real fireworks. 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

12 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

my guess is that the trade market is where we'll see the real fireworks. 

I agree with this as well.... Sac, ATL and maybe Dallas can be fulcrums to facilitate deals by taking on bad contracts and getting future assets for their trouble but I also see a lot of moving around the deck chairs for a few teams.  

[Orca of Peace 109]

1 hour ago, Snacks said:

They should do that, anyway. Without Capela or equivalent, the Rockets would be a 5 seed at best. They have ZERO on the interior.

they need him but damn it's crazy money out there for specialized players. He fits perfectly with HOU but wouldn't be so valuable anywhere else. 

[Ricky Butler 2657]

7 minutes ago, Orca of Peace said:

they need him but damn it's crazy money out there for specialized players. He fits perfectly with HOU but wouldn't be so valuable anywhere else. 

Capela is fascinating. Young, athletic, constantly improving, and perfectly utilized, but he's not skilled enough to create offense. So he needs to be paired with a creator like Harden.

[Vic Mackey 46932]

Oops

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, BigOrange1 said:

wow, that's kind of surprising about the pacers not picking up stephenson's option.  

He must still be a fucking headache for them to decline that "cheap" option.

[Dutchrudder 11115]

Or maybe they plan on using the money to bring home the prodigal son Paul George???