Intersection of Hate Crimes and Mental Illness

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

This had previously been put in a separate thread, but I think we need to have a separate discussion on this.  

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/06/nyregion/nyc-asian-hate-crime-mental-illness.html

Tommy Lau, a Chinese-American bus driver in New York City, was walking last month during his lunch break in Brooklyn when he noticed a man harassing an older Asian couple.

Mr. Lau, 63, stepped in front of the man to ask what he was doing. The man, Donovan Lawson, spat at Mr. Lau and punched him in the face, calling him an anti-Chinese slur, prosecutors said. Mr. Lawson, who is Black, was arrested and charged with a hate crime.

It was the 33rd arrest for Mr. Lawson, 26, who is homeless and mentally ill, the authorities said. Four times, officers had been called to assist him because he appeared to be in the grip of a mental breakdown, and he was being monitored for treatment in a mental health program run by the Police Department.

He is not unique. Many of the people charged recently with anti-Asian attacks in New York City have also had a history of mental health episodes, multiple arrests and homelessness, complicating the city’s search for an effective response.

 

The pattern has revealed gaps in the criminal justice system’s ability to respond effectively when racial bias overlaps with mental illness, even as the city has stepped up enforcement efforts against these crimes.

For instance, Mr. Lawson was one of at least seven people arrested after attacks on Asian city residents in the last two weeks of March, ending with a horrifying attack on a Filipino-American woman, who was kicked repeatedly in broad daylight in Manhattan by a man the police say was homeless and on parole after serving a prison sentence for killing his mother.

Of the seven people arrested, five had prior encounters with the police during which they were considered “emotionally disturbed,” police parlance for someone thought to be in need of psychiatric help. Investigators believed the remaining two also had signs of mental illness.

Officials say those arrested are part of a population of mentally unstable people who cycle in and out of jail on minor charges and too often do not get the psychiatric attention they need. Many also struggle with drug addiction.

Dermot F. Shea, the New York police commissioner, said in a television interview on Friday that there were “always arrests prior to these tragic, tragic incidents, and we need to address this mental illness piece.”

 

So far, the police have received reports of at least 35 anti-Asian hate crimes in New York this year, already surpassing the 28 reported all of last year, and far more than the three reported in 2019, the police said.

Attacks against Asian-Americans began to rise across the country last year as the pandemic raged and former President Donald J. Trump called the disease the “Chinese virus” and the “Kung Flu” in an effort to blame China for the catastrophe.

Law enforcement officials said Mr. Trump’s rhetoric provided ammunition to people who scapegoated Asian-Americans for spreading the virus, exacerbating racial tensions and spurring unprovoked attacks and harassment.

At the same time, the pandemic strained a criminal justice system that has long struggled to deliver treatment to mentally ill people who run afoul of the law. Social services cut back in-person meetings. Unemployment soared. The number of single homeless adults reached record levels.

“People’s fuses were much shorter,” said Karen Friedman Agnifilo, a former high-ranking official in the Manhattan district attorney’s office. “If you were an angry person filled with hate, it seems like it didn’t take much to set you off.”

Hate crime incidents in New York generally tend to rise after divisive news events, experts on such prosecutions said, and most spring from spur-of-the-moment confrontations. After the terror attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, for instance, Muslim Americans were targeted. After the white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va., in 2017, anti-Semitic attacks rose.

State prison officials said that, because of privacy laws, they could not release information about the health history of Brandon Elliot, the man arrested in connection with the brutal March 29 attack on the Filipino woman in Manhattan.

But the police had been called to assist Mr. Elliot with a mental health episode in 2002, a few months before he stabbed his mother to death in front of his 5-year-old sister, according to a law enforcement official.

Questions have been raised about whether Mr. Elliot, who is Black, had been properly supervised after being paroled. Mr. Elliot, 38, was living at a hotel in Midtown Manhattan that has been serving as a homeless shelter, the police said. Other residents said his behavior was sometimes erratic.

Mayor Bill de Blasio said last week that Mr. Elliot’s case highlighted a pervasive problem. The state releases people from prison into the city “with no plan, no housing, no job, no mental health support,” he said.

In a statement, New York State’s corrections department said that every person released from prison has an individual treatment and rehabilitation plan and the mayor was “clearly not informed.” The Legal Aid Society, which is representing Mr. Elliot, urged the public “to reserve judgment until all the facts are presented in court.”

In the short term, the city has responded to the rise in anti-Asian attacks with more enforcement. The Police Department has sent undercover plainclothes officers to neighborhoods with large Asian populations and has encouraged more victims to come forward.

But confronting the role of mental illness in such crimes is also critical, criminologists say, and the city lacks a robust safety net for individuals who frequently come into contact with law enforcement and mental health professionals.

“The system is so broken that somebody can be handcuffed and taken to the hospital and be back on the street in a matter of a few hours,” said Kevin Nadal, a professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

Mr. de Blasio said that only a small number of people with mental illnesses commit violence, and that the city aggressively follows up with those who have a documented history of both.

Research has shown that mentally ill people are no more likely to commit crimes than other people and are more vulnerable to becoming victims, said Katherine L. Bajuk, a mental health attorney specialist at the New York County Defender Service.

That some of the people arrested in recent anti-Asian incidents had a history of instability has brought little comfort to victims.

 

Mr. Lau, the bus driver in Brooklyn, said in an interview that he believed the punch he took from Mr. Lawson was rooted in a “breakdown in mental health issues.”

Still, he said, the slur Mr. Lawson had used fit a pattern of racism he has experienced since childhood, when his elementary schoolteacher called him Tommy instead of his given name, Kok Wah, to prevent his classmates from making fun of him.

“That’s how it is when you’re Asian, always being harassed by others,” Mr. Lau said. “The pandemic made it worse.”

Regina Lawson, Mr. Lawson’s sister, said he showed signs of mental illness at a young age and received therapy until he grew older and his mother could no longer force him to go. The siblings are now estranged.

“There could be definitely a better way of dealing with someone other than waiting until they have a felony or really hurt someone to get them the support,” Ms. Lawson said.

The problem of mental illness among homeless people like Mr. Lawson has been exacerbated during the pandemic as the city moved thousands of people from shelters into hotel rooms to slow the spread of the coronavirus, shelter providers said. The move has isolated some people with mental illnesses, leaving them with less supervision.

One homeless man charged in a recent anti-Asian hate crime, Eric Deoliveira, 27, had 13 prior emotional disturbance calls and at least a dozen arrests, the police said.

 

On March 21, the police said, Mr. Deoliveira, who is Hispanic, punched a Chinese-American mother in Manhattan and smashed the sign that she had been carrying after a rally to protest anti-Asian violence.

On Saturday night, Mr. Deoliveira, who had been released after the assault charge, was arrested again in Queens and accused of smashing the windshield of a police patrol car, prosecutors said. A lawyer for Mr. Deoliveira did not respond to a request for comment.

Mental fitness has already become a legal issue in some cases. Last month, a judge ordered a mental health evaluation for Ruddy Rodriguez, 26, who was arrested and accused of hitting an Asian man on the back of the head in Manhattan while saying an anti-Chinese expletive.

Prosecutors said that Mr. Rodriguez, who is Black and Hispanic, told investigators after his arrest, “I hit him. I don’t like Asians. I get into disputes with them.” He also is said to have told a police officer, “I’m going to kill all of the Asians when I get out of here.”

During Mr. Rodriguez’s arraignment, he frequently interrupted the proceedings and denied the allegations, according to a court transcript. Prosecutors said he had been arrested in January after he smashed a glass door at a Manhattan homeless shelter and threatened to kill the site’s coordinator.

A lawyer for Mr. Rodriguez did not respond to a request for comment.

 

[tantric superman 4667]

Was High Life involved?

 

[UpperWestside 6136]

Dermot Shea says in that article that he wants the mental illness of people who are in and out of the system addressed. Okay, cool. Let’s take about 2000 officers off the payroll and hire therapists and psychiatrists in their place to give these people the continuing help they need mentally. Lest anyone think this would create a shortage of officers to respond to violent crime, anyone who lives here can tell you how we have officers who are standing around at subway stops on their phones like they are off work. I am looking at two of them right now at a stop in The Bronx at Morris Park that does not have issues, ever. NYPD can make the decision on their own to do this or eventually it will be done for them.

[tantric superman 4667]

We've discussed on other threads, but in employment law, there has to be some evidence of animus in race or national origin cases.

Ultimately, it seems a jury should certainly decide whether it was a hate crime and I would think a defense to  the hate crime aspect would be mental illness.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

52 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

We've discussed on other threads, but in employment law, there has to be some evidence of animus in race or national origin cases.

Ultimately, it seems a jury should certainly decide whether it was a hate crime and I would think a defense to  the hate crime aspect would be mental illness.

 

57 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Dermot Shea says in that article that he wants the mental illness of people who are in and out of the system addressed. Okay, cool. Let’s take about 2000 officers off the payroll and hire therapists and psychiatrists in their place to give these people the continuing help they need mentally. Lest anyone think this would create a shortage of officers to respond to violent crime, anyone who lives here can tell you how we have officers who are standing around at subway stops on their phones like they are off work. I am looking at two of them right now at a stop in The Bronx at Morris Park that does not have issues, ever. NYPD can make the decision on their own to do this or eventually it will be done for them.

I disagree.  I do not think these people need to be in the city at all unless they are living with caretakers.  The city, in a lot of cases, can cause the behavior to become worse.  There are too many things that can trigger these folks. For those that become violent, putting them back in the city isn't the solution.  And I think responsibility for these folks rises above the NYPD.  It is the responsibility of the state of New York.

[UpperWestside 6136]

1 minute ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

 

I disagree.  I do not think these people need to be in the city at all unless they are living with caretakers.  The city, in a lot of cases, can cause the behavior to become worse.  There are too many things that can trigger these folks. For those that become violent, putting them back in the city isn't the solution.  And I think responsibility for these folks rises above the NYPD.  It is the responsibility of the state of New York.

Where would you have these people sent? We have quite literally thousands and thousands of people in the city who are homeless who are also mentally ill. I have seen some violent behavior from those folks. It is not a pretty sight watching an adult unable to realize what they are saying and doing. We cannot just put them on buses and ship them upstate somewhere. 
 

I want more health professionals on the payroll for the city and a couple thousand less officers. I am willing to listen to any ideas you have about where these folks can live. If it is a long-term care facility that specializes in mental illness that is staffed by professionals and not people there earning a little above 15 an hour just to clean their beds and make sure they are fed I would be up for a tax hike on funding new facilities. Anything that can help our fellow human beings that are suffering mentally is worth the investment. It does not mean though that there should not be consequences for the beatings that have taken place. I am 100 percent against physical violence at all times. It is never the answer.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

Just now, UpperWestside said:

Where would you have these people sent? We have quite literally thousands and thousands of people in the city who are homeless who are also mentally ill. I have seen some violent behavior from those folks. It is not a pretty sight watching an adult unable to realize what they are saying and doing. We cannot just put them on buses and ship them upstate somewhere. 
 

I want more health professionals on the payroll for the city and a couple thousand less officers. I am willing to listen to any ideas you have about where these folks can live. If it is a long-term care facility that specializes in mental illness that is staffed by professionals and not people there earning a little above 15 an hour just to clean their beds and make sure they are fed I would be up for a tax hike on funding new facilities. Anything that can help our fellow human beings that are suffering mentally is worth the investment. It does not mean though that there should not be consequences for the beatings that have taken place. I am 100 percent against physical violence at all times. It is never the answer.

These folks are chronically homeless and mentally ill, and rather than taking spaces in shelters, which isn't good for them or anyone else, they need to be in mental hospitals or facilities with people trained to deal with them.  Somewhere where a lot of the triggers of the big city would not be within reach.  So you and I are on the same page there.  And quite frankly, I believe the taxes we already pay to the state and city should be enough to provide for that.  There is a shitload of pork and waste in the NY State and City budget (see the MTA and how it is run).

However, some of this needs to be funded by the feds as well.  Of course, there is some serious changes that need to be done to the laws of this country by the federal government as well.  This needs to be first, a federal solution.  

[washparkhorn 9935]

19 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I do not think these people need to be in the city at all unless they are living with caretakers.  The city, in a lot of cases, can cause the behavior to become worse.  There are too many things that can trigger these folks. For those that become violent, putting them back in the city isn't the solution.

This pragmatic lens has great merit. Cities are stressful. The social contract between humans tends to be under stress. Modeling appropriate conduct may not produce the same results as what would be seen in less complex settings.  Some refuge from the chaos is warranted for those struggling with mental health issues.

The move to de-institutionalize was an austerity measure using the cloak of civil rights (freedom from institutionalization). It needed broad and substantial secondary resources that it did not receive. Practically, it turned out to be a disaster for those with mental health difficulties and for society as a whole, when looking at the negative externalities flowing from de-institutionalization. 

 

[AnotherUTFan 9680]

I'm in San Francisco and this is a huge issue here. A couple recent experiences if I may share. 

Last Sunday I was standing on the sidewalk in a predominately Asian neighborhood (San Bruno Ave.) with my girlfriend waiting for a sandwich. There was something going on with a bus pulled over, several cops standing around it and multiple patrol cars passing by. A black dude, likely experiencing homelessness and obviously mentally ill, first walks up and asks if I've ever considered going back to where ever it is that I come from, cause white people have fucked up everywhere they have ever been (for another discussion). Then he starts yelling all the Asian people passing by that there is no such thing as Asian hate because Asian's are the most racist of anybody, etc. There was a black woman near the bus he was saying would be arrested, but we got out of that scene before any of that was resolved.

I live on a strange stretch of Mission St between the Mission and the Excelsior Districts and rarely see anything that surprises me any more. Yesterday I saw something I wont soon forget.

A man hunched over a shopping cart crossing the street coming toward me as I walked out my front door to go for a walk at lunch. Little guy, had a hood over his head making ii hard to describe him, dark skin. He lets go of the shopping cart letting it continue to roll until it hit the curb in front of me and stopped. He turned and walked toward the bus stop, I assumed to pull aluminum cans from the trash bid. No. He walks to the bus stop, sits down on the bench with his head in his hands and just starts crying. Crying like a baby. He was howling. I wanted to give him a hug, but I didn't know what to say. I crossed the street and watched him for a few moments and could hear him howling as I finally walked away for another block. A few busses came and went, but there he sat. Poor guy. I returned half an hour or so later and he was gone, but his shopping cart was still sitting there against the curb.

 

I don't have the solutions, but what we do with the mentally ill in this country is criminal. I blame Ronald Reagan.

 

[956 Worldwide 34443]

1 hour ago, UpperWestside said:

Dermot Shea says in that article that he wants the mental illness of people who are in and out of the system addressed. Okay, cool. Let’s take about 2000 officers off the payroll and hire therapists and psychiatrists in their place to give these people the continuing help they need mentally. Lest anyone think this would create a shortage of officers to respond to violent crime, anyone who lives here can tell you how we have officers who are standing around at subway stops on their phones like they are off work. I am looking at two of them right now at a stop in The Bronx at Morris Park that does not have issues, ever. NYPD can make the decision on their own to do this or eventually it will be done for them.

I give you lots of credit for actually identifying what other service you’d cut to fund improved mental care.  And for not running to “just cut the waste elsewhere.”

The reality is that cops are cheaper than mental health care, particularly long term and residential. Washparkhorn is correct that deinstitutionalization was really a disguised austerity measure, but we also shouldn’t lost sight of the fact that in many cases those institutions were horror shows. That’s why it the move to shut them down was palatable.......Doing this correctly takes a lot of money. So it’s cut something else or pay some more. And I absolutely disagree that this is a fed issue. How we handle mental illness in a community is why we have devolution. 

[washparkhorn 9935]

6 minutes ago, AnotherUTFan said:

I blame Ronald Reagan.

1981

President Reagan repealed the Mental Health Systems Act through the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981. It shifted funding to the state through block grants. The grant process meant that community mental health centers competed with other public needs. Programs like housing, food banks, and economic development often won the federal funds instead. 

https://www.thebalance.com/deinstitutionalization-3306067

[washparkhorn 9935]

Just now, 956 Worldwide said:

we also shouldn’t lost sight of the fact that in many cases those institutions were horror shows

Amen.

[Biff Tannen 45495]

Serious question: why can we not bring back asylums?  AKA State Hospitals, but in a humane way that actually tries to help these people.  I know Austin State Hospital at 45th/Guad is getting a huge upgrade.  I think we are at a point in society where we have people that need to stay in custody forever, not just let go after X amount of time.  I know it would require a fuck ton of funding, but I'm betting we could come up with it.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Biff Tannen
956 kind of addressed this

[956 Worldwide 34443]

4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Serious question: why can we not bring back asylums?  AKA State Hospitals, but in a humane way that actually tries to help these people.  I know Austin State Hospital at 45th/Guad is getting a huge upgrade.  I think we are at a point in society where we have people that need to stay in custody forever, not just let go after X amount of time.  I know it would require a fuck ton of funding, but I'm betting we could come up with it.

It’s very hard and we can’t grasp a two-track system.  Our legal system is designed for a binary “competent to stand trial or not.”  And we are absolutely pathetic at providing prisoners with even the minimum level of health care for the body let alone the type of mental health care people need.  There needs to be a third track that prosecutors could be encouraged to pursue, of non-punitive incarceration with true mental health care available. 

[Willfully Horn 7913]

I don’t wish to derail the mental health discussion, but I do think addressing the racial scapegoating at work would be a stopgap, though not a long term, preventative measure. 

[Ghost of LL 15492]

Sorry--I was going to scold the OP because we already have a thread about Greg Abbott.  But I see that he was not speaking metaphorically.

 

Carry on.

[UpperWestside 6136]

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

These folks are chronically homeless and mentally ill, and rather than taking spaces in shelters, which isn't good for them or anyone else, they need to be in mental hospitals or facilities with people trained to deal with them.  Somewhere where a lot of the triggers of the big city would not be within reach.  So you and I are on the same page there.  And quite frankly, I believe the taxes we already pay to the state and city should be enough to provide for that.  There is a shitload of pork and waste in the NY State and City budget (see the MTA and how it is run).

However, some of this needs to be funded by the feds as well.  Of course, there is some serious changes that need to be done to the laws of this country by the federal government as well.  This needs to be first, a federal solution.  

I am for working on solutions that can stop folks from ever getting to this point as well. However, for those people who are already in dire need we HAVE to do better. We cannot keep turning our backs on folks who desperately need a helping hand. 
 

Federally it would take legislation. I’ll go ahead and just assume that not one single death cult congressperson or senator will sign onto such a bill because their sole job is to sit this legislative session out. We need comprehensive mental illness laws in this country. I would call it something along the lines of “For the Mental Wellness of the People Act.” This is where it would go sideways because I want mental health professionals to be able to be accessed by any American citizen. You may not be getting a 1000 dollar an hour psychiatrist to sit across from you, but we all need regular access to some form of therapy and mental wellness. That requires a tax increase. I am for that because we live in a society. I think if you take care of the mind you can positively influence a person’s direction in life. The cost of not doing this leads to the high incarceration rates we have. 

I am for having a brand new system in place and to have facilities built. This should be bare minimum type stuff. @956 Worldwide made some excellent points a little while ago in this thread. We cannot return to an asylum style system. This has to be something setup that helps those in need and not a place where families deposit their relatives and never come back for them.  @washparkhorn also makes great points about the overall hustle and bustle of city life. If we can safely take these folks out into a setting away from the city to help them and rehabilitate their mind in as peaceful and serene setting as possible, cool. Let’s get together as a society, well the segments who want to help, and let’s do our part to bring about positive change.

Edited April 6, 2021 by UpperWestside

[UpperWestside 6136]

I would also say that while we are discussing mental illness/wellness that I am partaking in some wonderful self-care on 125th just sitting by the ACP statue listening to these folks play the drums. The rhythm is soothing and peaceful. So glad to get to hear this again. Find something small like this for yourself when you have free time or someone you know that needs a mental break. The little positives can add up quickly.

 

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

15 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Sorry--I was going to scold the OP because we already have a thread about Greg Abbott.  But I see that he was not speaking metaphorically.

 

Carry on.

He?!?

[Ghost of LL 15492]

4 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

He?!?

Sorry again.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

45 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I give you lots of credit for actually identifying what other service you’d cut to fund improved mental care.  And for not running to “just cut the waste elsewhere.”

The reality is that cops are cheaper than mental health care, particularly long term and residential. Washparkhorn is correct that deinstitutionalization was really a disguised austerity measure, but we also shouldn’t lost sight of the fact that in many cases those institutions were horror shows. That’s why it the move to shut them down was palatable.......Doing this correctly takes a lot of money. So it’s cut something else or pay some more. And I absolutely disagree that this is a fed issue. How we handle mental illness in a community is why we have devolution. 

I disagree with you on this being a fed issue.  If it is not a federal issue, we will have a patchwork system where people will fall through the cracks, and states like Texas and Florida will basically say fuck you and bus their homeless to NY or CA who will implement such a system.  I think federal funding for other programs should be at risk if you do not implement to the minimum federally mandated standard.  

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

Sorry again.  

You said you were going to scold the OP, but you see he wasn't speaking metaphorically.  I was the OP.  Unless I misunderstood your gest.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

52 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I give you lots of credit for actually identifying what other service you’d cut to fund improved mental care.  And for not running to “just cut the waste elsewhere.”

The reality is that cops are cheaper than mental health care, particularly long term and residential. Washparkhorn is correct that deinstitutionalization was really a disguised austerity measure, but we also shouldn’t lost sight of the fact that in many cases those institutions were horror shows. That’s why it the move to shut them down was palatable.......Doing this correctly takes a lot of money. So it’s cut something else or pay some more. And I absolutely disagree that this is a fed issue. How we handle mental illness in a community is why we have devolution. 

Well, I would suggest we use the 1-2B that DeBlasio and his wife misplaced for their "Thrive" initiative.  You know, the initiative that had no criteria to measure success and for which an accounting of which has never been provided.  DeBlasio and his wife cannot be gone soon enough.

[Ghost of LL 15492]

2 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

You said you were going to scold the OP, but you see he wasn't speaking metaphorically.  I was the OP.  Unless I misunderstood your gest.

Yeah--I got it.  I was apologizing for the error.

[956 Worldwide 34443]

16 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

 

Federally it would take legislation. I’ll go ahead and just assume that not one single death cult congressperson or senator will sign onto such a bill because their sole job is to sit this legislative session out. We need comprehensive mental illness laws in this country. I would call it something along the lines of “For the Mental Wellness of the People Act.” This is where it would go sideways because I want mental health professionals to be able to be accessed by any American citizen. You may not be getting a 1000 dollar an hour psychiatrist to sit across from you, but we all need regular access to some form of therapy and mental wellness. That requires a tax increase. I am for that because we live in a society. I think if you take care of the mind you can positively influence a person’s direction in life. The cost of not doing this leads to the high incarceration rates we have. 

 

This is an excellent point.  And with mental health, so much is contingent on early interventions.  I wish Republicans would ponder the absurdity of the situation— someone who has a mental condition that prevents them from fully participating in the workforce, but the resources to address the condition are unavailable except through an employer or independent wealth. At some point the the personal responsibility crowd has to acknowledge that there is a difference between principles and fanaticism. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

Just now, Ghost of LL said:

Yeah--I got it.  I was apologizing for the error.

Oh, lol.  Cheers.

[TwiceHorn 31280]

If we start with the proposition that a mass killer has something pretty gravely mentally wrong, I get a little uneasy assigning racial motives.  I mean, they can articulate one quite well in many cases.  But what if they said they were trying to kill the little green men, or little green men told them to kill the Asians. Or a dog named Sam?  It seems to me the mental illness tends to swallow the racial animus whole in most mass/serial killer cases.  Maybe in quite a few solo shots, as well.

Are those actually "hate crimes"?

The intersection of mental health and criminal liability is really problematic to me these days.  We don't have all the answers psychologically or psychiatrically, but I am very uncomfortable with the M'Naghten rule for mental defect defenses to crimes.  It was devised when we didn't know fuck about shit, or shit about fuck.

I'm ok with taking the truly loony out of society for a spell, maybe forever, but I think it really needs to be in a more therapeutic environment than prison if there's any chance they will be released.

 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

6 hours ago, AnotherUTFan said:

I'm in San Francisco and this is a huge issue here. A couple recent experiences if I may share. 

Last Sunday I was standing on the sidewalk in a predominately Asian neighborhood (San Bruno Ave.) with my girlfriend waiting for a sandwich. There was something going on with a bus pulled over, several cops standing around it and multiple patrol cars passing by. A black dude, likely experiencing homelessness and obviously mentally ill, first walks up and asks if I've ever considered going back to where ever it is that I come from, cause white people have fucked up everywhere they have ever been (for another discussion). Then he starts yelling all the Asian people passing by that there is no such thing as Asian hate because Asian's are the most racist of anybody, etc. There was a black woman near the bus he was saying would be arrested, but we got out of that scene before any of that was resolved.

I live on a strange stretch of Mission St between the Mission and the Excelsior Districts and rarely see anything that surprises me any more. Yesterday I saw something I wont soon forget.

A man hunched over a shopping cart crossing the street coming toward me as I walked out my front door to go for a walk at lunch. Little guy, had a hood over his head making ii hard to describe him, dark skin. He lets go of the shopping cart letting it continue to roll until it hit the curb in front of me and stopped. He turned and walked toward the bus stop, I assumed to pull aluminum cans from the trash bid. No. He walks to the bus stop, sits down on the bench with his head in his hands and just starts crying. Crying like a baby. He was howling. I wanted to give him a hug, but I didn't know what to say. I crossed the street and watched him for a few moments and could hear him howling as I finally walked away for another block. A few busses came and went, but there he sat. Poor guy. I returned half an hour or so later and he was gone, but his shopping cart was still sitting there against the curb.

 

I don't have the solutions, but what we do with the mentally ill in this country is criminal. I blame Ronald Reagan.

 

"experiencing homelessness" eh?

[Willfully Horn 7913]

Here’s yet another example of an Asian woman encountering racism and, perhaps, mental illness. Dumbass might have found out why fucking around with a martial arts expert is crazy ...

https://www.rawstory.com/amp/sakura-kokumai-racist-video-2651888584?__twitter_impression=true
 

Sakura Kokumai is beautiful, all the way through.