2018 Texas Volleyball

[Sandlot 2]

Some of you go the matches and meet/ talk to the coaches, why don’t you guys ever ask Elliott about the issuesthat defense/ ball control has been for years?

[ruitxn 296]

55 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Or maybe Elliott is an elite recruiter. You don't pull recruits like he has from all over the country unless you can recruit. 

You can question some of Elliott's deficiency's like ball control and so on but when you start downplaying his recruiting ability it's laughable. He's probably the best recruiter in college volleyball. 

Elliott would recruit well at any P5 program in the country. If it's so easy to recruit top 5 classes every year to Austin we need to fire every other coach on campus because they can't do it. 

Thanks TS I was just going to post basically the same thing. Right on.

[spystud13 2371]

Are one of you tempest? He’s the only one I remember actually going to the private interviews. 

[perfectchaos007 6626]

I guess we can start the Shook transfer watch clock 🕰 

[TwiceHorn 31440]

Tree beginning to look like a juggernaut again. 20-13 in the 3rd. 

[Goodman 3273]

27 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Yeah, I don't buy it either. Elliott isn't an idiot. He knows they need to improve on serve-receive and back row defense. 

For whatever reason, those issues haven't been fixed. Probably more about coaching hires or bad evaluations in recruiting than anything. 

I do think our ball control will improve with Petersen. She's good. 

Those issues have always existed under JE and he’s never fixed them. They’ve always been his weakness. 

No question He can recruit at an elite level. USC and current Texas VB are top 5 places to recruit, maybe top 3. 

You cant compare women to men’s sports for recruiting. What ATX has become over the last 7 years, sells a lot to girls from SoCal and pretty much any other place. The drum is awful and look at our wbb recruiting. Soccer recruiting, swimming...

no one is saying fire JE, we have a career that tells us what he does well and what he does poorly. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

3 minutes ago, perfectchaos007 said:

I guess we can start the Shook transfer watch clock 🕰 

I wish her good luck. I think she was trying to be a good teammate. I saw her trying to coach/help Gabriel several times tonight. 

A lot of players in her position would have already bolted. 

Just unfortunate she's not a very good setter.  

[texasstrong12 4668]

6 minutes ago, Goodman said:

 wbb recruiting. Soccer recruiting, swimming...

They don't even compare to Elliott's recruiting. Aston is about the closest coach in terms of recruiting but she's gonna have to recruit at that level for several more years until she's in the same grouping as Elliott. 

You are drastically undervaluing Elliott as a recruiter. 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by texasstrong12

[TwiceHorn 31440]

Yeah I feel bad for her. That was a pretty bad evaluation or bad coaching match evaluation. Because she was highly regarded, I assume perhaps the latter. 

[TwiceHorn 31440]

Another thing, Texas is on a downtrend of sorts. Last year was the first time in five (six?) years not to make a Final Four, and this year not even the Elite Eight. 

That trend does coincide with the departure of Salima Rockwell, hinting that there may be a slip in coaching. 

[TwiceHorn 31440]

PSU going down to furd after a valiant 1.5 sets. 

[spystud13 2371]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Another thing, Texas is on a downtrend of sorts. Last year was the first time in five (six?) years not to make a Final Four, and this year not even the Elite Eight. 

That trend does coincide with the departure of Salima Rockwell, hinting that there may be a slip in coaching. 

Dude, go to fucking bed. 

[Sandlot 2]

Because I’m a loser I’ve gone back and watched the match. And I’m not an expert but through a set and a half I counted only 2 Times that BYU successfully dig a clean hard hit ball that wasn’t tip or slowed by the block and they controlled it to the 10 foot line or better. Again, I’m not saying Texas is great at ball control but it wasn’t like BYU was great in that area either like some you are saying.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Sandlot

[Sandlot 2]

2 hours ago, texasstrong12 said:

I will say this about Elliott. This is the group that Elliott needs to get his 2nd title. 

Barring attrition we are going to have 3 more years of Gabriel, O'Neal, Butler, Eggleston, Petersen and the elite recruiting class coming in. 

IMO Eggleston will be one of the best players in the country next year. She looked like a 17 year old most of the year but you could tell she started to figure things out at the end of the year. 

There’s a lot of things that go into it and a lot of luck especially when it comes to injuries. It’s also about what the other top teams have returning or going and  is White going to return next year.

[SB5Horns 6]

1 hour ago, Sandlot said:

Some of you go the matches and meet/ talk to the coaches, why don’t you guys ever ask Elliott about the issuesthat defense/ ball control has been for years?

Season-long lurker here. I attend some of the pre-game match discussions. A few people ask detailed questions about the game or team deficiencies. Service issues were discussed early in the season, for example. However, a majority of the people in the room don't understand the game that well and/or don't want to confront Elliott in that forum. 

Regarding comments about Elliott as an elite coach, I don't think he has that reputation among the volleyball community (based on comments from those associated with volleyball, not just message boards). He is a fantastic recruiter, but is not known for player development or teaching strategy. He relies heavily on his staff for the detailed coaching: Johnson (offense) and Sullivan (defense). 

Someone said this on this thread earlier in the season -- paraphrasing here: Elliott doesn't have to be the hands-on coach that teaches the players to get them to the next level. He can continue to be an excellent recruiting coach; however, that means he needs an outstanding staff to back him up. Right now, he doesn't have that so his weaknesses with defense/serve-receive and player development are very exposed now.  

For example, I give a tremendous amount of credit to Salima Rockwell for the 2012 championship. We needed someone like that to help push the program past the ghosts of the major tournament collapses of 2008 and 2009.

We need more assistant coaches like Salima on staff again (more likely), or we need to a new direction for head coach (unlikely). 

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by SB5Horns

[Sandlot 2]

41 minutes ago, SB5Horns said:

Season-long lurker here. I attend some of the pre-game match discussions. A few people ask detailed questions about the game or team deficiencies. Service issues were discussed early in the season, for example. However, a majority of the people in the room don't understand the game that well and/or don't want to confront Elliott in that forum. 

Regarding comments about Elliott as an elite coach, I don't think he has that reputation among the volleyball community (based on comments from those associated with volleyball, not just message boards). He is a fantastic recruiter, but is not known for player development or teaching strategy. He relies heavily on his staff for the detailed coaching: Johnson (offense) and Sullivan (defense). 

Someone said this on this thread earlier in the season -- paraphrasing here: Elliott doesn't have to be the hands-on coach that teaches the players to get them to the next level. He can continue to be an excellent recruiting coach; however, that means he needs an outstanding staff to back him up. Right now, he doesn't have that so his weaknesses with defense/serve-receive and player development are very exposed now.  

For example, I give a tremendous amount of credit to Salima Rockwell for the 2012 championship. We needed someone like that to help push the program past the ghosts of the major tournament collapses of 2008 and 2009.

We need more assistant coaches like Salima on staff again (more likely), or we need to a new direction for head coach (unlikely). 

 

So you’re going to give Salima credit for them winning it in 2012 and not Haley, Bailey, or Shadare? Or the same guy that is on the staff now and primarily responsible  for the back row/ defensive play that you and so many others are complaining about? So what about the other times Texas didn’t win when she was on the staff? 

Edited December 9, 2018 by Sandlot

[TwiceHorn 31440]

7 hours ago, spystud13 said:

Dude, go to fucking bed. 

Hahaha shit. Why did this feel like an earlier exit than last year? Regardless, it occurred to me that the trend is probably due to seeding and home court advantage as much as anything else. And that is always a little arbitrary. 

[TwiceHorn 31440]

Also, with this year's better passing, we didn't quite fall apart in the usual fashion.  Someone pointed out that the loser almost always loses ball control in the face of superior defense and hitting. But in previous years when ball control was suspect in the best of times, we really went to shit. So this can actually be seen as an improvement. 

[TexasDPT 297]

Also, I think Micaya's ankle injury in the previous match may have been more severe than they let on.  There weren't any designed back row attacks (or any that I can remember) in the BYU match.   There were several times when I thought Jhenna should have set Micaya in the back row but didn't, and that definitely limited the offense.

Serve-receive passing was definitely better this year and having a setter that could actually locate the ball with consistent tempo and height really helped out the players.   It's the other aspects of the game Texas needs to continue to improve: ball-control/floor defense (actually digging up hard-driven balls to the setter) and serving tougher and more consistently (Micaya). 

 

 

[perfectchaos007 6626]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Hahaha shit. Why did this feel like an earlier exit than last year? Regardless, it occurred to me that the trend is probably due to seeding and home court advantage as much as anything else. And that is always a little arbitrary. 

Not really. Jerrit is also a shit scheduler 

[TexasDPT 297]

13 minutes ago, perfectchaos007 said:

Not really. Jerrit is also a shit scheduler 

He claims he can't get top-ranked teams to come to Austin...unless they are sponsored tournaments like the Vert Challenge.

Edited December 9, 2018 by TexasDPT

[SB5Horns 6]

11 hours ago, Sandlot said:

So you’re going to give Salima credit for them winning it in 2012 and not Haley, Bailey, or Shadare? Or the same guy that is on the staff now and primarily responsible  for the back row/ defensive play that you and so many others are complaining about? So what about the other times Texas didn’t win when she was on the staff? 

 

Of course the players get credit. But, by your logic, Destinee should have won 2 NCs - and she almost did had it not been for back-to-back 0-2 collapses. 

 

It’s not easy to win at the national level consistently.  Along with talent, training, and development, it does takes some luck - seeding, who comes out of other parts of the bracket, team health, etc. But it also takes a winning mindset to push through plateaus and adversity. Salima brought that experience and mindset. Just not sure that it took hold. 

 

A buddy from the B1G asked me last night, “so what’s Texas’ excuse this year?”  We’re running out of excuses. This program could use some fresh blood so that it rivals the success of programs from John Cook and Russ Rose, and less like Mary Wise (and Bill Self). 

 

 

 

[SB5Horns 6]

3 minutes ago, SB5Horns said:

 

Of course the players get credit. But, by your logic, Destinee should have won 2 NCs - and she almost did had it not been for back-to-back 0-2 collapses. 

 

It’s not easy to win at the national level consistently.  Along with talent, training, and development, it does takes some luck - seeding, who comes out of other parts of the bracket, team health, etc. But it also takes a winning mindset to push through plateaus and adversity. Salima brought that experience and mindset. Just not sure that it took hold. 

 

A buddy from the B1G asked me last night, “so what’s Texas’ excuse this year?”  We’re running out of excuses. This program could use some fresh blood so that it rivals the success of programs from John Cook and Russ Rose, and less like Mary Wise (and Bill Self). 

 

 

 

Apologies for the weird font. Not sure what happened. 

Edited December 9, 2018 by SB5Horns

[perfectchaos007 6626]

I think other programs like penn state and Nebraska are on 4 year plans. Sure they’ll have down years where they’ll lose in the round of 16 but they give themselves a 2 year window where they will play for a national championship. Texas doesn’t really have down years but at the same time we don’t build the program for the future, it’s always for the present. Sounds great in theory but with 1 title in 30 years maybe it’s time to look at other models of program building?

[TwiceHorn 31440]

4 hours ago, perfectchaos007 said:

Not really. Jerrit is also a shit scheduler 

Well our being a 5 seed the last couple of years has proven about right. We do seem to schedule solid noncon, but I guess you can pick at the number of games against decent rpi noncons. I accept the difficulty of getting teams to Austin, right or wrong. 

And as SB5 notes I imagine CDC might push Elliott a little as far as assistants or planning or recruiting. It is my perception that that is what he does and is good at it. But we shall see. 

[Js1 85287]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well our being a 5 seed the last couple of years has proven about right. We do seem to schedule solid noncon, but I guess you can pick at the number of games against decent rpi noncons. I accept the difficulty of getting teams to Austin, right or wrong. 

And as SB5 notes I imagine CDC might push Elliott a little as far as assistants or planning or recruiting. It is my perception that that is what he does and is good at it. But we shall see. 

If we played 4-5 more games against 2-3 more mid-major opponents we’d probably be in better shape. We have a smaller resume than the other teams vying for top 4 seeds. 

[Sandlot 2]

4 hours ago, SB5Horns said:

 

Of course the players get credit. But, by your logic, Destinee should have won 2 NCs - and she almost did had it not been for back-to-back 0-2 collapses. 

 

It’s not easy to win at the national level consistently.  Along with talent, training, and development, it does takes some luck - seeding, who comes out of other parts of the bracket, team health, etc. But it also takes a winning mindset to push through plateaus and adversity. Salima brought that experience and mindset. Just not sure that it took hold. 

 

A buddy from the B1G asked me last night, “so what’s Texas’ excuse this year?”  We’re running out of excuses. This program could use some fresh blood so that it rivals the success of programs from John Cook and Russ Rose, and less like Mary Wise (and Bill Self). 

 

 

 

Sure. I’ll buy maybe needing to bring in new assistants but I’m not buying your Salima point. 

[Sandlot 2]

3 hours ago, perfectchaos007 said:

I think other programs like penn state and Nebraska are on 4 year plans. Sure they’ll have down years where they’ll lose in the round of 16 but they give themselves a 2 year window where they will play for a national championship. Texas doesn’t really have down years but at the same time we don’t build the program for the future, it’s always for the present. Sounds great in theory but with 1 title in 30 years maybe it’s time to look at other models of program building?

Some of you say things that don’t make sense. EVERY program is playing for the present in that particular year. And if Texas didn’t plan for the future how do you explain Elliott red shirting middle blockers in consecutive years when they could have easily contributed in their freshman year especially Butler? 

Edited December 9, 2018 by Sandlot

[Sandlot 2]

I’m a frustrated fan just like you guys and I’m also tired of the team coming up short. But the bottom line is that Texas just hasn’t been good enough. There’s no excuses from me, if you’re great you find a way to win. And Texas hasn’t done that in the recent years. It doesn’t matter how high your recruiting class is ranked or how high a player was ranked playing against high school talent. They just haven’t been good enough.

And I’m all for Coach Elliott maybe needing to bring in some fresh blood at the assistant positions. I just hope that the odds will eventually work in Texas’ favor because the more you put yourself in a position to win eventually you’re going to win.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Sandlot

[sunset87 240]

23 hours ago, TexasDPT said:

So why is Texas consistently the worst top ten ball control team year in/year out?

Watch every elite 8 match and compare Texas' ball control/back row defense to the other elite teams....the drop-off is significant.  

We win most matches because we have a bevy of elite hitters and typically very good blocking that can overpower teams.  But when we go up against teams with similar hitters, we lose because ball control sucks. 

I think it’s the culture of the coaching staff. I believe the staff knows how to coach defense, I just don’t think they get through to the entire team to give all out effort all the time, on defense.

When you watch the Big 10 teams and other elite teams, everyone on the floor knows their spacing and are flying around keeping the ball up. It’s a sense of pride and extreme emphasis on those teams. That’s not the feel I get from Elliot’s teams.

And it’s not just the DS’s. How many times do we see the Texas front row turn to pop up a ball after they have been tipped over...almost never. I see it happen often with other elite teams.

Imo, the staff needs to create a greater sense of pride and emphasis about not letting the ball hit the ground for the entire team. Get buy in from the team leaders and let them create some accountability amongst the team.

[Pato del Muerto 52486]

Our block is our defense 

[gsoda3 3248]

On 12/9/2018 at 10:15 PM, sunset87 said:

I think it’s the culture of the coaching staff. I believe the staff knows how to coach defense, I just don’t think they get through to the entire team to give all out effort all the time, on defense.

When you watch the Big 10 teams and other elite teams, everyone on the floor knows their spacing and are flying around keeping the ball up. It’s a sense of pride and extreme emphasis on those teams. That’s not the feel I get from Elliot’s teams.

And it’s not just the DS’s. How many times do we see the Texas front row turn to pop up a ball after they have been tipped over...almost never. I see it happen often with other elite teams.

Imo, the staff needs to create a greater sense of pride and emphasis about not letting the ball hit the ground for the entire team. Get buy in from the team leaders and let them create some accountability amongst the team.

in the early 2000s i got to know a former big10 coach pretty well.  she said the exact same thing you said about JE.  

[sushihorn 3233]

On 12/9/2018 at 4:03 PM, TwiceHorn said:

Well our being a 5 seed the last couple of years has proven about right. We do seem to schedule solid noncon, but I guess you can pick at the number of games against decent rpi noncons. I accept the difficulty of getting teams to Austin, right or wrong. 

And as SB5 notes I imagine CDC might push Elliott a little as far as assistants or planning or recruiting. It is my perception that that is what he does and is good at it. But we shall see. 

Last year Stanford was clearly the better team.  This year, not so much with BYU.  The individual set scores could easily have gone the other way.  Reversing home court advantage and Texas probably sweeps them.

[perfectchaos007 6626]

Tonight I’ll pick Stanford in 3, Nebraska in 4

[Pancho 44712]

So does the state of Texas not bid on the volleyball final four?

[TexasDPT 297]

I remember Elliott saying that Austin and other cities in Texas (Dallas and San Antonio?) put in bids to host the final four for the 2018-2021 seasons, and he complained that all sites were awarded in Big Ten states.

2018- Minneapolis

2019- Pittsburgh

2020- Omaha

2021- Columbus (Ohio)

[TexasDPT 297]

Watching the final four, Texas really needs to improve on its serving and back row defense/ball control to compete for another title.

[sunset87 240]

Wow, Illinois really fell apart the last 2 sets. Their passing cratered, and when they were in system they were too predictable. I will say, Nebraska stepped up their defense and were digging everything. Sun also got hot at the right time.

[TexasDPT 297]

Nebraska's floor defense and tough serving can weather potent offenses.... but I hope Stanford stomps a huge fuckin' mudhole in them.

[WJC88 97]

1 hour ago, TexasDPT said:

Watching the final four, Texas really needs to improve on its serving and back row defense/ball control to compete for another title.

I agree. Until those areas improve, UT is not winning a title despite the amount of talent coming into the program. 

Speaking of talent. One of the things i will be interested in following the next 3 years is the development of Logan Eggleston and Lexi Sun. If Sun becomes an effective 6-rotation player and Eggleston fails to do the same, will that start to affect recruiting- "why go to Texas where they don't develop you into an all-around player"?

I think the program is at a crossroads. Will the correct changes take place to elevate the program to the next level?

 

[texfan11 90]

20 minutes ago, WJC88 said:

Speaking of talent. One of the things i will be interested in following the next 3 years is the development of Logan Eggleston and Lexi Sun. If Sun becomes an effective 6-rotation player and Eggleston fails to do the same, will that start to affect recruiting- "why go to Texas where they don't develop you into an all-around player"?

 

Nebraksa’s assistant coach in charge of defense is the libero who helped lead Team USA to win a World Championship and a bronze medal in Rio. I think this is only her second season, so I’m interested to see how she develops defensive players (but I mean aNational Championship your first year isn’t too shabby)

[TwiceHorn 31440]

No surprise I guess but tree absolutely mudholed the morms. Not only a sweep but by 10, 10,and 7. Smooth buttfucking. Hope they do the same to corn. 

[TexasDPT 297]

I think Sun's overall back row play and serve-receive have already improved a lot since being at Nebraska.  She looks more comfortable defensively and is digging balls that usually bounced in front of her at Texas.   The training is definitely part of it, but I also think Cook let her play through her lows in the back row/serve-receive instead of taking her out (which Elliott did) even though it cost them some matches IMO.  I think she's prone to have breakdowns in her game, but Nebraska's overall team defense will overcome those deficiencies. 

Elliott's tenure has produced some dominant front-row college players but in the 18 years he has been here, none have really been true passing, six-rotation players except for Mira Topic, Ashley Engle, Sha'Dare McNeal, Amy Neal, and now Micaya White (who is still too inconsistent at times). 

With the college rules of allowing 15 substitutions per set, Elliott has made his success by getting big, high-jumping, hard-hitting pin hitters like Hooker, Faucette, Webster, Eckerman, Bell, Prieto-Cerame, Nwanebu, and Bedart-Ghani who only played front but didn't have the skills to play in the back row.  (Hooker didn't have the opportunity to develop b/c of Track&Field and Nwanebu b/c of her chronic back injury).  Thus, Texas gets labeled as getting the top athletes but not the top volleyball players....

It would be nice if Elliott could develop complete players but at the minimum, his focus in the upcoming season should be improving the team's overall serving and floor defense.

[Js1 85287]

I agree with everything you said. 

[Sandlot 2]

1 hour ago, TexasDPT said:

I think Sun's overall back row play and serve-receive have already improved a lot since being at Nebraska.  She looks more comfortable defensively and is digging balls that usually bounced in front of her at Texas.   The training is definitely part of it, but I also think Cook let her play through her lows in the back row/serve-receive instead of taking her out (which Elliott did) even though it cost them some matches IMO.  I think she's prone to have breakdowns in her game, but Nebraska's overall team defense will overcome those deficiencies. 

Elliott's tenure has produced some dominant front-row college players but in the 18 years he has been here, none have really been true passing, six-rotation players except for Mira Topic, Ashley Engle, Sha'Dare McNeal, Amy Neal, and now Micaya White (who is still too inconsistent at times). 

With the college rules of allowing 15 substitutions per set, Elliott has made his success by getting big, high-jumping, hard-hitting pin hitters like Hooker, Faucette, Webster, Eckerman, Bell, Prieto-Cerame, Nwanebu, and Bedart-Ghani who only played front but didn't have the skills to play in the back row.  (Hooker didn't have the opportunity to develop b/c of Track&Field and Nwanebu b/c of her chronic back injury).  Thus, Texas gets labeled as getting the top athletes but not the top volleyball players....

It would be nice if Elliott could develop complete players but at the minimum, his focus in the upcoming season should be improving the team's overall serving and floor defense.

Absolutely. The first thing he needs to do is to tell White to get rid of her serve.  But the problem is that those were issues coming into the season that they supposedly worked on. 

[Machinator 32099]

 

[TwiceHorn 31440]

Go Tree. 

[TwiceHorn 31440]

Furd fucking up all over the place. 

[perfectchaos007 6626]

Tree is shook right now. Plummer is drunk

[TwiceHorn 31440]

Ficky fick is earning her keep.