Voter ID and Digital Passports

[lmao 178]

Just wondering where people are at on these two issues? Personally I'm against voter ID and and a digital passport required to enter stores, venues, (basically function society), etc. I also will be getting the vaccine so this isn't some anti-vax nut position, more on the data, security, & privacy issues amongst other things. 

[ndawg 1242]

If the voter ID is "successful," what outcome will be able to observe that indicates its success?

Same question for the digital passport.

[Captainant 27311]

The question of "digitial passports" is a SUUUUUPER broad question where the nitty-gritty details matter pretty significantly.

Is it a cryptographically signed locally-stored copy of your vaccine record from your healthcare provider that's just a static document with a seal of authenticity? That sounds A-OK, really no different from a physical document at that point. 

And voter ID laws are a solution in seek of fraud. There is not any evidence of widespread voter fraud, just ask trump's lawyers while they're under oath.

[Neonmoon 38127]

There is no need for voter ID. It’s a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. 

Now, I’m okay with a vaccine passport because only a private business can make that call. If American Airlines believes it will increase sales, that’s up to them. If you don’t like it, don’t use that business.

For schools, we already require you to get vaccinated for measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, varicella, HEP-A, HEP-B. So adding Covid is not a big deal. 

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/school/school-requirements.aspx

however, I’m sure a bunch of dumbfuck parents will make it an issue this fall when they’re required while at the same time, they had been getting the other 10 shots as required without protest. 

[pyrohornIII 4801]

Until we have better broadband everywhere, including rural, I can't see how a digital passport works for a lot of folks who don't even have a smartphone or computer.

[Mole 4318]

Voter ID requirements would be fantastic if paired with more robust systems to provide those IDs, automatic registration, same-day registration, and other pro-voting reforms. Of course support for IDs would evaporate since their purpose is to suppress the vote, I mean value quality of white votes over quantity.

[HornOnTheBayou 8877]

Why are these two issues being discussed in tandem? I'm going to start a thread asking people where they stand on ice cream and football. Do you like both of them? Neither? One, but not the other? 

[lmao 178]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

There is no need for voter ID. It’s a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. 

Now, I’m okay with a vaccine passport because only a private business can make that call. If American Airlines believes it will increase sales, that’s up to them. If you don’t like it, don’t use that business.

For schools, we already require you to get vaccinated for measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, varicella, HEP-A, HEP-B. So adding Covid is not a big deal. 

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/school/school-requirements.aspx

however, I’m sure a bunch of dumbfuck parents will make it an issue this fall when they’re required while at the same time, they had been getting the other 10 shots as required without protest. 

Schools require you to have a digital passport?

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19074]

1 hour ago, Mole said:

Voter ID requirements would be fantastic if paired with more robust systems to provide those IDs, automatic registration, same-day registration, and other pro-voting reforms. Of course support for IDs would evaporate since their purpose is to suppress the vote, I mean value quality of white votes over quantity.

This on voter ID.  As for vaccine passports, if that means more mouthbreathers will not be where I am, then I am all in support.  Fuck them and their my body, my choice hypocrisy.

[Captainant 27311]

28 minutes ago, lmao said:

Schools require you to have a digital passport?

Schools and school districts already require records of vaccination, yes. I don't get why you're sticking to a vague and rhetoric term like "digital passport"

[softlynow 1774]

Voter ID, no.

Digital passport, maybe. 

Firearm ID and database along with criminal liability for the owner of a firearm who allows that gun to be used by another in the commission of a crime, yes.

[Willfully Horn 7913]

17 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Schools and school districts already require records of vaccination, yes. I don't get why you're sticking to a vague and rhetoric term like "digital passport"

For the purpose of stoking a culture war, IMO.

[Neonmoon 38127]

1 hour ago, lmao said:

Schools require you to have a digital passport?

Schools absolutely require you to present evidence of your vaccinations. Are you against vaccinations or digitalization? 

[lmao 178]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Schools and school districts already require records of vaccination, yes. I don't get why you're sticking to a vague and rhetoric term like "digital passport"

There is a difference between a piece of paper and a data tracking app. 

[tantric superman 4667]

[Pescado_Rojo 19327]

10 minutes ago, lmao said:

There is a difference between a piece of paper and a data tracking app. 

Do you carry a smart phone?

[Neonmoon 38127]

31 minutes ago, lmao said:

There is a difference between a piece of paper and a data tracking app. 

You think the clinics administering vaccines aren’t keeping records? You think that piece of paper they give you to present to the school is the only record? 

[Captainant 27311]

1 hour ago, lmao said:

There is a difference between a piece of paper and a data tracking app. 

Then don't hide your meaning in an intentionally vague wording. In my first reply in this thread I described what a well implemented "digital passport" could be. A simple, static, cryptographically signed document from your healthcare provider that gave you the vaccine is a super easy, decentralized, and cost effective method that retains privacy AND data assurance. 

But your concerns on data tracking are also superfluous. Your ISP sells your internet usage information, damn near every webpage you visit tracks you, your realtime location data from the cellphone in your pocket is up for sale from your cellular provider. We currently don't have any sort of privacy online. 

Chosing to frame your privacy concerns with anti-vax talking points isn't exactly accurate or a useful basis for discussion. 

[lmao 178]

 

16 hours ago, Captainant said:

Schools and school districts already require records of vaccination, yes. I don't get why you're sticking to a vague and rhetoric term like "digital passport"

Because that's what some developers are calling them? I think Mastercard is sticking with vaccine passports? What is the preferred nomenclature? 

[lmao 178]

13 hours ago, Captainant said:

Then don't hide your meaning in an intentionally vague wording. In my first reply in this thread I described what a well implemented "digital passport" could be. A simple, static, cryptographically signed document from your healthcare provider that gave you the vaccine is a super easy, decentralized, and cost effective method that retains privacy AND data assurance. 

But your concerns on data tracking are also superfluous. Your ISP sells your internet usage information, damn near every webpage you visit tracks you, your realtime location data from the cellphone in your pocket is up for sale from your cellular provider. We currently don't have any sort of privacy online. 

Chosing to frame your privacy concerns with anti-vax talking points isn't exactly accurate or a useful basis for discussion. 

Choosing to frame any privacy or security concerns as 'anti-vax' is bs imo. I will getting vaccinated when it's available in two weeks.

[landman 559]

An ID is required to do a number of things - drive, open a bank account, set up utilities, buy property, travel on an airplane, etc.  I don't see the problem with needing one to vote.

[Sawbonz 27375]

I think we should definitely have a national ID card. I know Mexico does.  I’m not sure if Canada does as well. We have some fucking loons who think that will be like assigning number of the beast to you or will affect your Sovereign citizen status.

[Pasken 1309]

18 minutes ago, landman said:

An ID is required to do a number of things - drive, open a bank account, set up utilities, buy property, travel on an airplane, etc.  I don't see the problem with needing one to vote.

I know this might sound crazy to you but there are a lot of people who don't own a car, buy property, have never been on a plane, and don't have a bank account. They're called poor.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Pasken

[landman 559]

1 hour ago, Pasken said:

I know this might sound crazy to you but there are a lot of people who don't own a car, buy property, have never been on a plane, and don't have a bank account. They're called poor.

Needed for employment, renting a place as well.  Most people have a form of identification, poor or not.

[SimonBolivar 10898]

5 minutes ago, landman said:

Needed for employment, renting a place as well.  Most people have a form of identification, poor or not.

Most do yes, but you'd be surprised how many don't. I get 2 or 3 a week that try to open an account without anything or with something that expired in 2010.

[Pasken 1309]

15 minutes ago, landman said:

Needed for employment, renting a place as well.  Most people have a form of identification, poor or not.

It's not 1 vote per household, it's 1 vote per person. It's cheaper for an adult in a family to stay home to take care of kids than to have a minimum wage job and pay for daycare. So while 1 member of the family may have an ID, others often don't.   

[Orale 1087]

An ID is required to do a number of things - drive, open a bank account, set up utilities, buy property, travel on an airplane, etc.  I don't see the problem with needing one to vote.

As long as the ID is free and easy for everyone to obtain, particularly the infirm, elderly, and those living in rural and isolated parts of the country. If it's not, then we're imposing, effectively, a poll tax.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19074]

3 minutes ago, Orale said:

2 hours ago, landman said:

An ID is required to do a number of things - drive, open a bank account, set up utilities, buy property, travel on an airplane, etc.  I don't see the problem with needing one to vote.

As long as the ID is free and easy for everyone to obtain, particularly the infirm, elderly, and those living in rural and isolated parts of the country. If it's not, then we're imposing, effectively, a poll tax.

This right here.  

[Willfully Horn 7913]

2 hours ago, landman said:

An ID is required to do a number of things - drive, open a bank account, set up utilities, buy property, travel on an airplane, etc.  I don't see the problem with needing one to vote.

The contrary view is not that IDs aren’t useful, but that obtaining one is onerous to a fairly large number of citizens, and so government must overcome whatever obstacles folks face and make getting IDs very easy. Not doing so raises the possibility  of de facto poll taxes.

An idea I like is going into underprivileged areas: your ID comes to you.

I also like vats of purple dye. Purple is such a luscious color.

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

I think we should definitely have a national ID card. I know Mexico does.  I’m not sure if Canada does as well. We have some fucking loons who think that will be like assigning number of the beast to you or will affect your Sovereign citizen status.

There is the cost factor. Again, poll taxes are unconstitutional.

 

Still, this argument is the point. Solving the problem is not.

 

Edit: Orale is pithy. And correct.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Willfully Horn
Redundant

[TwiceHorn 31184]

Considered in isolation, it is amazing that having a government-issued photo ID is not a requirement to vote.

 

But here's the thing, when that gets challenged in court, the challengers can bring scads of evidence, true, credible evidence, that having to obtain a government ID makes voting more difficult for a decent percentage of people, as enumerated here.

To counter that, the proponents of voter ID can come up with exactly jack shit showing that there's vote fraud or any other condition that needs or requires an ID.

This has happened over and over again for a decade or more.  The voter ID fans know they need evidence to have the law survive in court and they've known it for a decade or more, and they still can't come up with it.

The other thing is that government issued photo IDs, drivers licenses, etc. have been common in American life for half a century.  And for most of that time, no one thought it was particularly important to have ID to vote.

Yet only in the last 10 years has a certain political party decided that all of a sudden we need photo IDs to vote.  That's a very interdasting phenomenon.

[Sawbonz 27375]

4 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

The contrary view is not that IDs aren’t useful, but that obtaining one is onerous to a fairly large number of citizens, and so government must overcome whatever obstacles folks face and make getting IDs very easy. Not doing so raises the possibility  of de facto poll taxes.

An idea I like is going into underprivileged areas: your ID comes to you.

I also like vats of purple dye. Purple is such a luscious color.

There is the cost factor. Again, poll taxes are unconstitutional.

 

Still, this argument is the point. Solving the problem is not.

 

Edit: Orale is pithy. And correct.

Cost is bullshit. They should be free if you qualify for any federal assistance 

[Neonmoon 38127]

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

I think we should definitely have a national ID card. I know Mexico does.  I’m not sure if Canada does as well. We have some fucking loons who think that will be like assigning number of the beast to you or will affect your Sovereign citizen status.

 

2 hours ago, landman said:

An ID is required to do a number of things - drive, open a bank account, set up utilities, buy property, travel on an airplane, etc.  I don't see the problem with needing one to vote.

I see a problem. Driving, opening a bank account, setting up utilities, buying property, traveling on airplanes, are not guaranteed rights. There is a difference. It is possible to not drive, keep cash in a mattress, be married to someone who pays utilities, rent, and never travel. Actually there are probably a lot of people like this. Most likely poor, and most likely women. Requiring these people to obtain a voter ID is a poll tax. 

I am actually all for a national ID, as long as it’s free to obtain, and you may be provided a provisional ID on Election Day if needed. 
 

but guess what. Asking people to present their papers doesn’t usually go over well in America, and some people want the ID to cost money, which makes it a poll tax. 

[elfenix 34168]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yet only in the last 10 years has a certain political party decided that all of a sudden we need photo IDs to vote.

that same political party is also completely against any form of ID that doesn't involve heading down to the DMV which even people who do open bank accounts,* drive, get on planes, etc, all know is a giant pain in the ass and something that is to be avoided as much as possible. 

 

 

 

*how often are you motherfuckers opening bank accounts?

[Willfully Horn 7913]

7 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Cost is bullshit. They should be free if you qualify for any federal assistance 

Seems like you agree. I think.

[Sawbonz 27375]

 

2 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Seems like you agree. I think.

Texas photo ID is $16 and good for 6 years. $6 if you’re over 60. Make them free for up to 400% of federal poverty level. Or make them free for everyone who gives a fuck

[DonkeyCigars 144]

Make it free. Add it to the next Stimulus pkg. Provide it with SNAP or EBT or Free Lunch at Public School. A good idea might be to have the census folks snap a photo when they canvas and get your card in the mail 6 weeks later and have it implemented by 2030 or whenever the next time the census volunteers get to ground gaming.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Alabama - surprise, surprise - is a perfect example of the fuckery that hides behind seemingly “common sense voter ID” laws.

The state closed down a bunch of DMV offices right about the time the Voter ID laws got passed.

I’ll bet you’ll never guess which types of communities lost their DMV.

If you guessed, rural, poor, with significant Black citizens? You win!

And, not for nothing, it is supremely fucked up that in Texas a person can use a gun permit as acceptable ID to vote but can’t use a student ID.

And, finally, as someone who has been putting in 70+ hour weeks for the last two months and will be continuing to do so for the foreseeable future working to vaccinate everyone possible, I say “Hell yes!” to a vaccine passport or whatever you want to call it.

Fuck, tattoo on everyone’s hand for all I care. Anyone choosing to not get a vaccine is not anyone I want to be around. Give those fuckers a Scarlet Letter D for Dumbass.

[elfenix 34168]

46 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Make it free. Add it to the next Stimulus pkg. Provide it with SNAP or EBT or Free Lunch at Public School. A good idea might be to have the census folks snap a photo when they canvas and get your card in the mail 6 weeks later and have it implemented by 2030 or whenever the next time the census volunteers get to ground gaming.

the party that wants a specific subset of government issued photo ID for voting is also entirely against the federal government issuing a standard ID so i bet that idea goes over like a lead balloon. 

[Neonmoon 38127]

Businesses need to stay out of politics 

 

[Mole 4318]

6 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Alabama - surprise, surprise - is a perfect example of the fuckery that hides behind seemingly “common sense voter ID” laws.

The state closed down a bunch of DMV offices right about the time the Voter ID laws got passed.

I’ll bet you’ll never guess which types of communities lost their DMV.

If you guessed, rural, poor, with significant Black citizens? You win!
 

You don't even have to close all of them, just limit their hours. The nearest DMV is about 30 miles from me and is open less than 20 hours per week. Cut the budget while also improving the "quality" of votes. It's a win/win.

[Bullneck 18976]

10 hours ago, lmao said:

 

What is the preferred nomenclature? 

Asian Americans?

[lmao 178]

Not a fan of Russel Brand & don't follow him but he makes some points here:

 

[lmao 178]

The WHO weighs in against Covid passports:

https://amp.smh.com.au/world/europe/who-urges-against-vaccine-passports-even-for-international-travel-20210407-p57h0d.html

[Satchel 6908]

So there are many, many, many issues.”

However, Dr Ryan said WHO officials had only temporarily recommended against vaccine passports for international travel. The organisation would reconsider the issue at a meeting on April 15.

He said another group of officials would examine the ethical, social and scientific data regarding vaccine passports.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20342]

I am for digital passports because I travel a lot and I figure if it knocks down 10-20 percent of the people in airports because they refuse to get a digital Covid passport I'm good with that. More space for me. Also, if it reduces the impact of cruise ships on the environment I see that as a huge win. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Horn Under a Bad Sign

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20342]

Russell Brand:  "Is it right, that big tech companies and the state are given the power to determine whether or not you can enjoy everyday freedoms?"

So stupid.  1) The state already has that power. You can't for example, legally drive without a license.  You can't fly a plane without a pilot's license etc...

2) As far as I know, it's neither the state nor the the big tech companies that want to deny you your everyday freedoms.  It's private businesses like restaurants, airlines etc...  They should absolutely have the right to make you prove that you're not a threat to their staff or other customers.  

[Neonmoon 38127]

The WHO raises a good point about isolating countries without the vaccine, but the opposite is possible exposure. Just because isolating is a bad solution doesn’t mean letting everyone keep spreading variants is great either. I think there is a middle ground. Proof of vaccination or negative covid test within 24 hours of travel or maybe same day rapid test if possible. Or something like that that gives everyone the option. 

[GW Hayduke 1950]

15 hours ago, lmao said:

Not a fan of Russel Brand & don't follow him but he makes some points here:

 

I was able to make it half way through the video. I agree he made some points. But did he make any good points that should be considered when developing public policy?

[Js1 85056]

And this is how you end up with a vaccine passport. 

 

[Mdhorn 5908]

Is there a thread for Real ID?  Damn, this is going to be real discouraging for some to get, especially older people.  It's $48 in MD, requires a passport or birth certificate, something with your social security number, and 2 proofs of residency--seems almost standard, but still a pain in the ass, especially since we do online bill pay.  Make sure that your name is the same on everything and that one doesn't show your maiden name like my wife's on the mortgage.  I thought I could just go in with my old DL and all would be peachy--not so fast.   Also, you have to schedule the trip and can't just pop in but that may be according to state. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Mdhorn