daunte wright shooting

[SarkAfterDark 1,688]

9 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

I don’t understand when it became the desire of the public for suspects who flee arrest to face no threat of lethal force, be it a gun or vehicle. Police chases often inflict injury to innocent people and property. It is not ok to run. Adding additional jail time to whatever warrant or arrest they are fleeing is not disincentive to stop the fleeing. If they are willing to fight or run, what makes anyone think the inevitable standoff later will go better?
 

Protestors the last few years need to pick better martyrs in a couple of these cases. Some have been inexcusable heinous acts by police. Others have been the direct result of the deceased’s own criminal actions. 

Even if he had successfully fled there was no real reason for it to turn into a high speed police chase that could injure others. They already knew who he was and could apprehend him another time. So yeah no lethal force is ever necessary unless there is a direct threat to the immediate public.

[Nivek 16,928]

26 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

You want detective teams staking out apartment complexes for speeding tickets and rolling stop signs and then having to approach them in their home? Or do you prefer not enforcing the law? 

Maybe we should just give them a couple of years and ask them nicely to turn themselves in, that should do it.

Reading is FUNdaMENTAL

Other countries are already doing it.  One of the differences, 14% of applicants can become a cop in Norway, which requires a BS degree, courses on ethics, shadowing cops, and receiving extensive training.   

 

[South Austin 52,496]

5 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

No doubt. Bullshit gets to me. Like that whole creating a false persona thing. I’m sure you have no idea.

79993B92-B329-414B-B0AC-3C37DC943FBC.webp 346.52 kB · 1 download

Where was she during the Urban Meyer thread?

[Murfdogg21 4,412]

4 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Even if he had successfully fled there was no real reason for it to turn into a high speed police chase that could injure others. They already knew who he was and could apprehend him another time. So yeah no lethal force is ever necessary unless there is a direct threat to the immediate public.

And turn it into another Brionna Taylor incident? The suspect is obviously avoiding arrest. He’s not just going to be hanging out at the place he pays his electric bill waiting for cops to show up so he can surrender peacefully. 
 

And @Brisketexan for the third time, I never said a cop should execute anyone, and that non-lethal force should always be the first choice. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,817]

With guns you idiot. All i'm saying is that the gun really didn't help the guy who literally got ambushed and would have been dead either way. Maybe next time post a situation where the cop having a gun actually helped to save his life instead of......that.

No shit, Pam . It takes an ambush blind side to state your case to disarm cops.

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

14 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Other countries are already doing it.  One of the differences, 14% of applicants can become a cop in Norway

there are a couple of other differences between the US and Norway

[dcar00 14,182]

maybe this was asked but is there any reason the taser can't be bright orange or green?  do they not want a perp to recognize if it is a gun or a taser?

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

15 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Even if he had successfully fled there was no real reason for it to turn into a high speed police chase that could injure others.

which kind of returns to the question he originally asked, which was "when it became the desire of the public for suspects who flee arrest to face no threat of lethal force, be it a gun or vehicle."

[dcar00 14,182]

22 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

would we hear about it if they did....?

this.  man bites dog.

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

3 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

maybe this was asked but is there any reason the taser can't be bright orange or green?  do they not want a perp to recognize if it is a gun or a taser?

I thought the same thing. Is there a reason it can't be physically and visually distinct from the service weapon? if it legitimately could be confused, why?

of course you could also ask cynically if it actually isn't, today, if you think the cop is giving a "dog ate my homework" answer (which--- I get it if someone thinks that, but the reaction seems like it backs up the "oops" story)

Edited April 13, 2021 by SwanderedTalent

[Pam Cummings 9,641]

11 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

No shit, Pam . It takes an ambush blind side to state your case to disarm cops.

I happen to think having another cop there would have greatly increased his chances of survival. I like the idea of requiring 2 cops during traffic stops.

[SarkAfterDark 1,688]

13 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

And turn it into another Brionna Taylor incident? The suspect is obviously avoiding arrest. He’s not just going to be hanging out at the place he pays his electric bill waiting for cops to show up so he can surrender peacefully. 
 

And @Brisketexan for the third time, I never said a cop should execute anyone, and that non-lethal force should always be the first choice. 

That is some huge leaps on your part. But what I gather from this is you seldomly expect the cops to properly be able to do their jobs, so they should be able to just take the easy way out when someone isn't complying and use lethal force.

2 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

which kind of returns to the question he originally asked, which was "when it became the desire of the public for suspects who flee arrest to face no threat of lethal force, be it a gun or vehicle."

When we realized cops are shit at their jobs.

[Nivek 16,928]

47 minutes ago, immamac said:

It's clear that our law enforcement officers in this country are not at all properly trained. They don't know the law, and they don't know how to handle persons who have broken said law. 

I'm going to go out on a limb that the police academies all over the country actually are the issue here and we are arguing over stupid shit completely downstream from the main issue. 

I'm also thinking to myself constantly - what is so fucking serious about these crimes that requires the authorities to resolve the situation in such immediate fashion? I'm not saying cops should be lazy, but this isn't the wild west anymore - these people have cell phones that track where they are all the time. They have a database of known addresses or where their vehicle is registered. There's a fucking shitload of ways to find this person later on and hold them accountable for non-violent crimes. 

Now if you are committing a violent crime or that is what the call is about, I think there should be a violent crimes division that handles it. The nature of violent crimes very quickly escalates to FAAFO. 

When I was 16, I was walking home from work when a cop car drives into the park, turns on its lights and they pull out their guns on me.   Let me restate that, I was a minor, walking home, on the walking path, when cops drove into the park and pulled their guns and pointed them at me.  Because I was walking home from my job.   I committed no crimes, I was not involved in a crime.    

As I was handcuffed on the ground and searched, another off duty cop showed up to help them deal with the meanece of the 16 yr old Nivek walking home from and afterschool job at ~9:30 PM.  

They pulled guns on a unarmed kid me.   I am white.     

[hookemATL 11,725]

There is nothing more dangerous than a honky on a casual stroll.

[Nivek 16,928]

10 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

there are a couple of other differences between the US and Norway

Tell me the difference that forces us to have lower standards.   

[InkaUtexas 25,925]

3 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

There is nothing more dangerous than a honky on a casual stroll.

Probably thought he was smoking that devils weed. 

[hookemATL 11,725]

2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Probably thought he was smoking that devils weed. 

Or mistook him for the rare albino black dude. 

[wildcat09 29,354]

1 hour ago, Enchubben said:

You want detective teams staking out apartment complexes for speeding tickets and rolling stop signs and then having to approach them in their home? Or do you prefer not enforcing the law? 

Maybe we should just give them a couple of years and ask them nicely to turn themselves in, that should do it.

People who speed or roll through stop signs don't get arrested. If cops can't be trusted to handle traffic stops, they can record a traffic violation with all the fancy tech we buy them and mail the violator a fucking ticket.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

10 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

I don’t understand when it became the desire of the public for suspects who flee arrest to face no threat of lethal force, be it a gun or vehicle. Police chases often inflict injury to innocent people and property. It is not ok to run. Adding additional jail time to whatever warrant or arrest they are fleeing is not disincentive to stop the fleeing. If they are willing to fight or run, what makes anyone think the inevitable standoff later will go better?
 

Protestors the last few years need to pick better martyrs in a couple of these cases. Some have been inexcusable heinous acts by police. Others have been the direct result of the deceased’s own criminal actions. 

Michael Brown, Blake and the dude who shot a taser at the cops were ones I put no blame on the cops.  Floyd, this man, and plenty of others are on the cops despite resisting.

[52-80 19,155]

6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

People who speed or roll through stop signs don't get arrested. If cops can't be trusted to handle traffic stops, they can record a traffic violation with all the fancy tech we buy them and mail the violator a fucking ticket.

how many people rolling through stop signs or speed and get arrested? 

funny, as a minority, ive collected plenty of speeding tickets in my day, never been been arrested from that. 

[wildcat09 29,354]

Just now, 52-80 said:

how many people rolling through stop signs or speed and get arrested? 

funny, as a minority, ive collected plenty of speeding tickets in my day, never been been arrested from that. 

I was responding to his question about whether we want people sitting outside someone's home to arrest them for speeding. There's no need, because people aren't subject to arrest for speeding.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

57 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

would we hear about it if they did....?

That is another point.  We are a country with 330 million people. There are a lot of guns.  And the war on drugs, which is futile, expensive and destroys lives. Still your odds of being shot by a cop whether white or black are tiny.  And if you do not resist, you probably are more likely to be eaten by sharks.

I would end the war on drugs yesterday.  Legalize them all. Spend money on treatment. Empty out our jail cells and restore the civil rights of all nonviolent drug offenders. My gun control would be throwing anyone who commits any crime with a gun (murder, robbery, rape, kidnapping, etc.) in jail for about 40 years.  You will have plenty of empty space. 95% of cops can go back to carrying a 38 special with normal ball ammo.

Our murder rate would plummet.

[52-80 19,155]

56 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Reading is FUNdaMENTAL

Other countries are already doing it.  One of the differences, 14% of applicants can become a cop in Norway, which requires a BS degree, courses on ethics, shadowing cops, and receiving extensive training.   

 

 

22 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Tell me the difference that forces us to have lower standards.   

NYPD has ~15,000 annual applicants to take police exam.  With ~1300 net new police officers employed, that makes it a 9% rate.  An ex NYPD and current CJ lecturer says NYPD puts ratio of application to officer at 15:1

The "BS" degree required in Norway is a 3 year program.  Most US PDs require ~60hrs college credit, which is roughly equivalent... and uh, you know, psych tests, standard tests, oral exams, shadowing, training and retraining, etc.

Not exactly a world of difference there.

Significant differences between Norway vs US?  How about extremely low homicide rate.  Low violent crime rate.  Low crime rate in general.  It's almost like police coverage, equipment, and actions are reflexive to who they encounter and what they deal with. 

 

If you want to get into the real root of the differences, we can start with income equality, safety nets, all sorts of long-established societal stuff... but easier to blame everything on 1 party/group

[huge 3,793]

With the proliferation of guns in the US anyone that thinks that taking firearms away from police officers is remotely feasible well that person might need to move to the moon.

Also the accidental shooter in this case should be fired and jailed.

[Captainant 27,661]

8 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

If you want to get into the real root of the differences, we can start with income equality, safety nets, all sorts of long-established societal stuff... but easier to blame everything on 1 party/group

definitely has nothing to do with our war on drugs being architected from the start to criminalize black people, hippies, and anti-war activists

"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did," - John Ehrlichman

[SquishMitten 10,405]

would we hear about it if they did....?

Two scenarios I can think of:

1) Accidentally pulled a taser, tased the person, and it was successful. Great! Somebody avoided death. The department isn’t going to admit that one of their officers pulled the wrong gear so we won’t hear about that. Result: Poorly trained cop remains poorly trained and is applauded for avoiding lethal force.

2) Accidentally pulled taser, it was unsuccessful, gun was pulled, person was shot. We’d definitely hear about that, but we wouldn’t know that the taser pull was accidental. The story would be that the officer intentionally tried to use non-lethal force first. Result: Poorly trained cop remains poorly trained and is applauded for trying to avoid lethal force.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,819]

I think the best solution would be that any elected official or law enforcement candidate, as part of their training, be arrested and charged with a Class B misdemeanor and be made to go through the "justice" system and put on probation for at least 6 months.  That would include all the fines, classes, mandatory check-ins, and all the other bullshit that normal low-level offenders have to go through.  After that they might have a little more perspective on what it means to have a warrant, and why.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Judge Roybeanbag

[Armybrat 40,841]

1 hour ago, SarkAfterDark said:

That is some huge leaps on your part. But what I gather from this is you seldomly expect the cops to properly be able to do their jobs, so they should be able to just take the easy way out when someone isn't complying and use lethal force.

When we realized cops are shit at their jobs.

A lot of them certainly are thugs themselves and should be weeded out, with some being put in prison.

But most of them are competent and a few actually are outstanding. But those rarely get on tv or splashed on social media.

Flame away haters.

[Captainant 27,661]

Just now, Armybrat said:

But most of them are competent and a few actually are outstanding. But those rarely get on tv or splashed on social media.

The so-called "good cops" let the bad cops get away with bad behavior. Their failure to police their own is a major contributing factor to this whole mess and public distrust of the police (unless you're a white boomer)

[Armybrat 40,841]

9 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I think the best solution would be that any elected official or law enforcement candidate, as part of their training, be arrested charged with a Class B misdemeanor and be made to go through the "justice" system and put on probation for at least 6 months.  That would include all the fines, classes, mandatory check-ins, and all the other bullshit that normal low-level offenders have to go through.  After that they might have a little more perspective on what it means to have a warrant, and why.

That wouldn’t faze the hardcore crooks & dirtbags.

[Armybrat 40,841]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

The so-called "good cops" let the bad cops get away with bad behavior. Their failure to police their own is a major contributing factor to this whole mess and public distrust of the police (unless you're a white boomer)

Some certainly do, but to say all of them know first hand what all their colleagues are doing or have dome is just predjudiced bullshit. 
If you truly think that way, then why would anyone vote for any incumbent politician of any party?

[Vic Mackey 47,029]

21 hours ago, BrazilHorn said:

How in the fuck do you make that mistake??? Jeez. Welp, more $ from taxpayers and another hero probably going to get off free for killing someone.

 

It wasn't a mistake at all. Just another negligent cop and using a bullshit excuse. Just like Amber Guyger and plenty of others. A taser feels nothing like a gun. Fuck this cop.

[TwiceHorn 31,463]

10 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

I've heard conflicting information of what the warrant was for. On one end I have conservative bloggers telling me it was a felony weapons charge and on the other end I have the police chief department in question telling me it was for a misdemeanor. Oh who to believe. 

I saw a copy of the original arrest warrant, on which the failure to appear warrant was based.

It was for a "gross misdemeanor" (a Texas Class A) for possession of a firearm without a permit, and resisting arrest.

Edited April 13, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Armybrat 40,841]

6 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

It wasn't a mistake at all. Just another negligent cop and using a bullshit excuse. Just like Amber Guyger and plenty of others. A taser feels nothing like a gun. Fuck this cop.

I tend to agree. Panicky cop with a hasty trigger finger.

[Lat22 4,014]

1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

maybe this was asked but is there any reason the taser can't be bright orange or green?  do they not want a perp to recognize if it is a gun or a taser?

Most of them are bright colored or have bright colored highlights. It wouldn’t have mattered here. Her brain was completely short circuited by the adrenaline dump she was feeling, probably for the first time. 

[Dahobbs 17,534]

7 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

You do realize that it is analogous to any race. White people suck at life also. And they have the advantage. Have always had it here. And it’s not right. It is horrible that anyone can’t look beyond race. Any one...

Here’s something I read that was amazing (soul shattering): there are assholes in every race. I read that and I was like wow! How can this be? 
 

Like wow! Blew my fucking mind! Like every race has jerks? I mean holy fucking shit! This is profound. I had zero idea with my white thinking. I just thought we were like the only ones. out there? There are other people in other countries with other cultures?

thats some deep shit man. %#^=€

Are you feeling ok? Your posts the last day or two have been really non-sensical and rambling. I hadn't noticed that before in your prior posts. 

[Vic Mackey 47,029]

14 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The so-called "good cops" let the bad cops get away with bad behavior. Their failure to police their own is a major contributing factor to this whole mess and public distrust of the police (unless you're a white boomer)

This is the issue. Cops harbor and enable this behavior. It is a unwritten rule you never go after a fellow cop. You turn a blind eye. They handle it internally which usually means they hide them behind a desk until is passes over. Only when there is a ton of pressure, they actually fire them. Thankfully we have cameras everywhere now or so much of this would be like the past. Cops word vs your word and we know how that plays out in the end. If the fellow cops actually stood against this bullshit (like actually, not lip service) then it would be a different story. But they are tight knit fraternity and never speak out against terrible behavior of another cop.

[Armybrat 40,841]

6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I saw a copy of the original arrest warrant, on which the failure to appear warrant was based.

It was for a "grand misdemeanor" for possession of a firearm without a permit, and resisting arrest.

A violation of his 2nd Amendment rights, but what was the nature of the original “resistance” charge - real or just made up?

[Nicole44 22,059]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Are you feeling ok? Your posts the last day or two have been really non-sensical and rambling. I hadn't noticed that before in your prior posts. 

It’s been a really shitty couple of weeks. I am sick of these shootings. It’s depressing. I lost my dog and she was a huge part of my life. I don’t deal with loss well and I absolutely shouldn’t be online posting when I am down. I get it. I am also fucking sick and tired of hearing every day how white people are the only people that suck. We aren’t. Other races suck also. Totally true. I’ll fuck off for a while. 

[Armybrat 40,841]

Just now, Vic Mackey said:

This is the issue. Cops harbor and enable this behavior. It is a unwritten rule you never go after a fellow cop. You turn a blind eye. They handle it internally which usually means they hide them behind a desk until is passes over. Only when there is a ton of pressure, they actually fire them. Thankfully we have cameras everywhere now or so much of this would be like the past. Cops word vs your word and we know how that plays out in the end. If the fellow cops actually stood against this bullshit (like actually, not lip service) then it would be a different story. But they are tight knit fraternity and never speak out against terrible behavior of another cop.

that broad brush of absolutism again.

Plenty of cops get fired because they were not supported by their fellow cops. I recall at least one case here in Austin concerning the fatal shooting of a resisting suspect.

I personally know two cops who spoke out against a “bad” colleague and resigned/retired because their objections went unheeded.

 

 

[lemonlime 5,503]

10 minutes ago, Lat22 said:

Most of them are bright colored or have bright colored highlights. It wouldn’t have mattered here. Her brain was completely short circuited by the adrenaline dump she was feeling, probably for the first time. 

Or she's lying.

[dcar00 14,182]

6 minutes ago, Lat22 said:

Most of them are bright colored or have bright colored highlights. It wouldn’t have mattered here. Her brain was completely short circuited by the adrenaline dump she was feeling, probably for the first time. 

it might have if they were trained with particular color.  reading more it looks like they have yellow versions, say to put it on non dominant hand side, etc.  

but do agree it looks like she was overwhelmed and never should have pulled anything.  since the guy had a weapons situation on his record, I can also see that they think he potentially going for something inside the vehicle.  sucks because it appears that they were 2 seconds from getting the cuffs on the guy.

[Captainant 27,661]

2 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

I personally know two cops who spoke out against a “bad” colleague and resigned/retired because their objections went unheeded.

So you're saying that when good cops try to do good, they're blocked and outnumbered by the bad cops who hold all the power? I don't think we're disagreeing here

[52-80 19,155]

36 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I think the best solution would be that any elected official ...

not a bad idea...

[dcar00 14,182]

4 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

It’s been a really shitty couple of weeks. I am sick of these shootings. It’s depressing. I lost my dog and she was a huge part of my life. I don’t deal with loss well and I absolutely shouldn’t be online posting when I am down. I get it. I am also fucking sick and tired of hearing every day how white people are the only people that suck. We aren’t. Other races suck also. Totally true. I’ll fuck off for a while. 

yes, a lot of people suck and it isn't limited or bound by race at all

[Armybrat 40,841]

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

So you're saying that when good cops try to do good, they're blocked and outnumbered by the bad cops who hold all the power? I don't think we're disagreeing here

Moving the goalposts, are you? The contention here is - and has been forever - that ALL cops are bad because they cover for each other. That simply is not true.

['stache 21,814]

2 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Or she's lying.

I would need to see some motive for her to lie during the actual act. A reason why she wanted to kill the person instead of taze him. It doesn't make it anywhere near okay, and she should be held responsible for the grossest of negligence imaginable. And as has been discussed throughout, the bigger problems are institutionali and need to be broken up with the biggest jackhammer of all time, because they have been embedded for decades. The "thin blue line," the fake "war on police," militarization, etc. Here is a podcast about how cops are trained. They literally believe that their task is to assume that everyone they encounter while in uniform intends to kill them, and its better to shoot first, ask questions later, because they "need to get home to their families." No consideration whatsoever that the other person might be innocent, or that a death sentence is not proper for resistance, or evasion, or that there might be mental illness or other reasons for bizarre or uncooperative behavior. Or, again, it can't be said enough, EVASION AND RESISTANCE ARE NOT CAPITAL OFFENSES!!!!!

 

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/the-man-who-teaches-our-cops-63257870/

['stache 21,814]

Just now, Armybrat said:

Moving the goalposts, are you? The contention here is - and has been forever - that ALL cops are bad because they cover for each other. That simply is not true.

You literally said that the ones you knew of had to quit/retire because they weren't being listened to. If the "good cops" are forced into those decisions, doesn't that leave mostly bad cops on the force? Don't get hung up on the word "all" because it is universally understood that there is no "all" when talking about a profession of thousands of people nationwide. But it's pretty clear that "all" (i.e., the vast majority including those in higher positions) prefer to cover up and defend shootings, and that makes all (i.e., the vast majority) bad cops, which is a problem that needs to be dealt with.

[immamac 42,847]

It's weird how covid restrictions are lifted and all the sudden everyone is fucking shooting eachother again. 

[Armybrat 40,841]

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

You literally said that the ones you knew of had to quit/retire because they weren't being listened to. If the "good cops" are forced into those decisions, doesn't that leave mostly bad cops on the force? Don't get hung up on the word "all" because it is universally understood that there is no "all" when talking about a profession of thousands of people nationwide. But it's pretty clear that "all" (i.e., the vast majority including those in higher positions) prefer to cover up and defend shootings, and that makes all (i.e., the vast majority) bad cops, which is a problem that needs to be dealt with.

That is not the mantra we have been deluged with since the beginning of these forums.

Some posters have been adamant about using the word “all”.

Nobody disagrees that bad cops should either be retrained or be drummed out, or convicted if they commit crimes.