daunte wright shooting

[goatsaag 279]

31 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

It wasn't a mistake at all. Just another negligent cop and using a bullshit excuse. Just like Amber Guyger and plenty of others. A taser feels nothing like a gun. Fuck this cop.

If you've watch the video, it seems like there are really only two possibilities.

1. The cop was just intent on killing him, was yelling "taser!" over and over as cover, and had some acting lessons/foresight to drop a "holy shit, I shot him" while sounding genuinely shocked.

2. It was a mistake. An inexcusable mistake that resulted in death, but a mistake.

I think it is pretty obvious which of those two is more likely. That doesn't make it ok and there absolutely still are other issues (should he have even been pulled over in the first place).

[Armybrat 40842]

5 minutes ago, immamac said:

It's weird how covid restrictions are lifted and all the sudden everyone is fucking shooting eachother again. 

Just wait until the juggalos get up to speed.

[52-80 19155]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Or, again, it can't be said enough, EVASION AND RESISTANCE ARE NOT CAPITAL OFFENSES!!!!!

Has it ever been anywhere written or instructed or codified that they are?  On the continuum of force, they're not.

Evasion and resistance can escalate to deadly acts, e.g. while resisting, you reach for an LEO's weapon; evading in a car towards or dragging LEOs; running with gun in hand, etc. 

You have the occasional Oscar Grant, but that is an exception, outnumbered by the above significantly.

['stache 21815]

6 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Has it ever been anywhere written or instructed or codified that they are?  On the continuum of force, they're not.

Evasion and resistance can escalate to deadly acts, e.g. while resisting, you reach for an LEO's weapon; evading in a car towards or dragging LEOs; running with gun in hand, etc. 

You have the occasional Oscar Grant, but that is an exception, outnumbered by the above significantly.

You're talking about self-defense. Way different scenarios. How many of these stories are about shooting of unarmed people or people resisting or evading without deadly force? Pretty much all of them. I don't recall much outcry for people who point guns and/or shoot at cops (i.e., suicide by cop, or actual murders who are justifiably shot in self-defense). The outcry is for unarmed people, like Wright, like Floyd, like Martin, etc., etc., etc. You're buying in to the overall problem. Cops assuming that any act of evasion or resistance is a threat to their lives. It almost always is not. But like we are already seeing with Wright "if he didn't resist he'd still be alive." Oh, okay, why was death a justifiable result of resistance in this case? It's not. Period. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by 'stache

[texashorne 1177]

I find it comical that whenever this kind of thing happens, there's always a "this is how they do it in Norway" post. 

[dcar00 14182]

22 minutes ago, immamac said:

It's weird how covid restrictions are lifted and all the sudden everyone is fucking shooting eachother again. 

we are back to lots of people suck

[dcar00 14182]

10 minutes ago, texashorne said:

I find it comical that whenever this kind of thing happens, there's always a "this is how they do it in Norway" post. 

Norway sounds really nice, no covid, ski slopes, hot chicks too.  I've yet to find a downside

Edit: no clear on BBQ game in Norway yet so that is a potential downside. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by dcar00

[immamac 42849]

6 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Norway sounds really nice, no covid, ski slopes, hot chicks too.  I've yet to find a downside

Edit: no clear on BBQ game in Norway yet so that is a potential downside. 

Untrue. I found this in Tromsø Norway.

[Bateshorn 9927]

21 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Has it ever been anywhere written or instructed or codified that they are?  On the continuum of force, they're not.

Evasion and resistance can escalate to deadly acts, e.g. while resisting, you reach for an LEO's weapon; evading in a car towards or dragging LEOs; running with gun in hand, etc. 

You have the occasional Oscar Grant, but that is an exception, outnumbered by the above significantly.

And yet.....Most localities have moved to no high speed pursuit policies (aka restrictive pursuit policy), which indicates they have a nuanced view of evasion.  The appropriate move here if he was going to flee without evidence of an immediate criminal threat was to let him go, and execute a warrant at different and safer time.

[52-80 19155]

11 minutes ago, 'stache said:

You're talking about self-defense. Way different scenarios. How many of these stories are about shooting of unarmed people or people resisting or evading without deadly force? Pretty much all of them.

If you're asking "how many", haven't it been shown over and over that it is numerically like ultra few?  To be fair, there are some horrendous outright executions (that kid in the hallway; the new mexico homeless guys; oscar grant). 

All of the other ones are various shades of complexity that isnt fair when lumped as "ya the person was just sitting there doing nothing and suddenly got capped" .

Quote

Cops assuming that any act of evasion or resistance is a threat to their lives. It almost always is not

It's not.  It's never been.  That's a phantom argument.

 

Quote

Oh, okay, why was [Wright's] death a justifiable result of resistance in this case? It's not. Period. 

Also phantom argument.  Nobody said it was deadly force was apt in this situation.  The apparent intent was application of taser.  The argument is whether LEO had truly wanted to use a gun instead.  (And if it was proven that she did, not a single soul on this website would be supporting it). 

So we've got a person with warrant, evading arrest, LEADING to an ACCIDENT that lead to his death.  With absolutely nobody supporting the intent of capital force, or - even if it was truly an accident - for the accused to walk away scot-free.  That is a whole lot of nuance more than "people are being murdered by cops for evasion".

[52-80 19155]

6 minutes ago, immamac said:

Untrue. I found this in Tromsø Norway.

 

Oslo.  pound for pound as tasty as anything found in Texas.

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

38 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Nobody disagrees that bad cops should either be retrained or be drummed out, or convicted if they commit crimes.

well, I mean, the bad cops do

[52-80 19155]

8 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

And yet.....Most localities have moved to no high speed pursuit policies (aka restrictive pursuit policy), which indicates they have a nuanced view of evasion.  The appropriate move here if he was going to flee without evidence of an immediate criminal threat was to let him go, and execute a warrant at different and safer time.

If the argument in this example is that neither a pursuit nor application of taser is appropriate, then thats fine.  But this example is not an argument for "police are wantonly killing innocent /young/men/citizens/blacks"

[Captainant 27664]

39 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Nobody disagrees that bad cops should either be retrained or be drummed out, or convicted if they commit crimes.

The cops and their "thin blue line" bullshit disagree.

['stache 21815]

3 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

If you're asking "how many", haven't it been shown over and over that it is numerically like ultra few?  To be fair, there are some horrendous outright executions (that kid in the hallway; the new mexico homeless guys; oscar grant). 

All of the other ones are various shades of complexity that isnt fair when lumped as "ya the person was just sitting there doing nothing and suddenly got capped" .

It's not.  It's never been.  That's a phantom argument.

 

Also phantom argument.  Nobody said it was deadly force was apt in this situation.  The apparent intent was application of taser.  The argument is whether LEO had truly wanted to use a gun instead.  (And if it was proven that she did, not a single soul on this website would be supporting it). 

So we've got a person with warrant, evading arrest, LEADING to an ACCIDENT that lead to his death.  With absolutely nobody supporting the intent of capital force, or - even if it was truly an accident - for the accused to walk away scot-free.  That is a whole lot of nuance more than "people are being murdered by cops for evasion".

You again focus on one incident at a time, find something to blame the deceased, all in an attempt to argue against those of us who are enraged every time this happens. It is a institutional problem. They are not trained properly. They are told to fear for their lives at every stop. That is why this keeps happening, over, and over, and over again. Yes, we get it, if he was an upstanding citizen who followed every law and every command he'd still be alive. It's also true that he did not deserve to die for his actions. The police need to change how they approach these interactions, from the start, so that there isn't any possibility of anyone accidentally killing unarmed people. Both can be true. And from the broader perspective, stop treating traffic stops as though everyone is a murdering terrorist just looking to kill cops or evade to murder and rape. Most of these are petty criminals who have gone wrong somewhere in their lives and are redeemable, despite poor decision making, both before and during these encounters. And again, we're just looking at this one incident. What about Nazario? He did literally nothing wrong. He had temporary plates. He pulled into a well lit area (which is not only legal but encouraged) and the cops still came out guns blazing as though their lives were in danger. It's a problem, and when you find excuses and press them over and over again, nothing will change. Change is needed. Monumental change. 

[lemonlime 5503]

47 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I would need to see some motive for her to lie during the actual act. A reason why she wanted to kill the person instead of taze him. It doesn't make it anywhere near okay, and she should be held responsible for the grossest of negligence imaginable. And as has been discussed throughout, the bigger problems are institutionali and need to be broken up with the biggest jackhammer of all time, because they have been embedded for decades. The "thin blue line," the fake "war on police," militarization, etc. Here is a podcast about how cops are trained. They literally believe that their task is to assume that everyone they encounter while in uniform intends to kill them, and its better to shoot first, ask questions later, because they "need to get home to their families." No consideration whatsoever that the other person might be innocent, or that a death sentence is not proper for resistance, or evasion, or that there might be mental illness or other reasons for bizarre or uncooperative behavior. Or, again, it can't be said enough, EVASION AND RESISTANCE ARE NOT CAPITAL OFFENSES!!!!!

 

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/the-man-who-teaches-our-cops-63257870/

To be clear, I don't definitively think she's lying.  She could well just be guilty of criminal negligence and abject stupidity.  But (some) cops have been lying about mixing up their tasers for their guns for years.  I don't know why everyone's giving her the benefit of the doubt, i.e. that she's a truthful moron.

And, yeah, all the rest of this is a bigger problem.  But part of the institutional problem is that some, not all, but a large enough percentage to be significant, of cops lie.  A lot.  And people go to prison or are killed as a result.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

52 minutes ago, immamac said:

It's weird how covid restrictions are lifted and all the sudden everyone is fucking shooting eachother again. 

Expired registration/inspection waiver no longer applies.  You can pull people over for that shit again.

[Lat22 4014]

3 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Expired registration/inspection waiver no longer applies.  You can pull people over for that shit again.

They need to start doing it in Houston.  

[SHOOTER12 8808]

23 hours ago, TexasHooch said:

Different color, different shape, and (most importantly) different hip.  That's a colossal fuck up if that's what happened.

 

23 hours ago, TexasHooch said:

Different color, different shape, and (most importantly) different hip.  That's a colossal fuck up if that's what happened.

I keep watching news reports and reading articles on this tragedy and how she grabbed the wrong weapon and how they are supposed to be worn on opposite hips.  I know for a fact that in the past I've noticed officers wearing them on the same hip, because I thought of how awkward it would be.  One holster slightly back, or in front of the other.  I had no idea that it was policy for them to be worn on opposite hips.  Is there any possibility that she had them on the same hip?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

Are cops really pulling people over on the excuse that they had an air freshener on their rearview mirror? Can anyone stand behind that behavior and keep a straight face?

Maybe the courts won't stop the behavior since that might technically be an infraction but state legislatures have to change the laws. I guess we need the federal govt to force more common decency laws onto the states by threatening to pull all federal funding if they don't comply.

And air fresheners are not the real problems with blocking the driver's view, it's the damn handicap signs that some people never remove from their mirror.

[TexasHooch 5122]

 

5 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

 

I keep watching news reports and reading articles on this tragedy and how she grabbed the wrong weapon and how they are supposed to be worn on opposite hips.  I know for a fact that in the past I've noticed officers wearing them on the same hip, because I thought of how awkward it would be.  One holster slightly back, or in front of the other.  I had no idea that it was policy for them to be worn on opposite hips.  Is there any possibility that she had them on the same hip?

Yes it is possible. She'll be double fucked if so. I still think she was probably wearing them on opposite hips per policy.  Her brain told her taser and her muscle memory told her gun.

[Armybrat 40842]

20 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The cops and their "thin blue line" bullshit disagree.

Blahblahblahblah.

[Armybrat 40842]

14 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Expired registration/inspection waiver no longer applies.  You can pull people over for that shit again.

Too bad the lege didn’t do away with the inspection farce altogether when it had the chance years ago.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

6 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Too bad the lege didn’t do away with the inspection farce altogether when it had the chance years ago.

Why would they do that?  Then there's no excuse to pull anyone over like in the OP of this thread.  The general consensus is COMPLY.  Unless it's in regard to facemasks or election results or transgender something.  Then you can bitch incessantly about it.  And by 'you" I mean the royal You, not you specifically.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Judge Roybeanbag

[52-80 19155]

Quote

You again focus on one incident at a time, find something to blame the deceased, all in an attempt to argue against those of us who are enraged every time this happens.

How it is that *I* am focusing on one incident at a time, when we're in the thread OF specific incident?  If you're using this thread/incident to advance a certain hypotheses, other people shouldn't be allowed to discuss it?  You can cite other incidences if you want.  (In fact, I cited some even worse examples from the police)

 

Quote

It is a institutional problem. They are not trained properly. They are told to fear for their lives at every stop. That is why this keeps happening, over, and over, and over again. Yes, we get it, if he was an upstanding citizen who followed every law and every command he'd still be alive. It's also true that he did not deserve to die for his actions. The police need to change how they approach these interactions, from the start, so that there isn't any possibility of anyone accidentally killing unarmed people. Both can be true.

How is it that you recognize both sides have culpability, but the problem is always just the police institution?  Why is it that 2 parties with guns collide that there is a bad outcome, but the problem is only 1 of the gun (the legal one, at that). 

Why is it that when people bring in the inevitable comparison OIS to Canada and Norway, there's never a mention of the violent crime rates in Canada and Norway, i.e. the # of encounters the police have with criminals there?

Quote

And from the broader perspective, stop treating traffic stops as though everyone is a murdering terrorist just looking to kill cops or evade to murder and rape. Most of these are petty criminals who have gone wrong somewhere in their lives and are redeemable, despite poor decision making, both before and during these encounters. And again, we're just looking at this one incident. What about Nazario? He did literally nothing wrong. He had temporary plates. He pulled into a well lit area (which is not only legal but encouraged) and the cops still came out guns blazing as though their lives were in danger. It's a problem, and when you find excuses and press them over and over again, nothing will change. Change is needed. Monumental change. 

Where are the excuses for the Nazario incident?  Who's excusing them? Is the Nazario incident supported by policing guidelines?  By the community?  Is there not an investigation into that incident?  Is this incident representative of most stops - or an outlier?  If it's most - can you show that?  If it's an outlier - should you use this outlying incident to legislate in a way that affects the majority of stops?

[Nivek 16928]

19 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

 

NYPD has ~15,000 annual applicants to take police exam.  With ~1300 net new police officers employed, that makes it a 9% rate.  An ex NYPD and current CJ lecturer says NYPD puts ratio of application to officer at 15:1

The "BS" degree required in Norway is a 3 year program.  Most US PDs require ~60hrs college credit, which is roughly equivalent... and uh, you know, psych tests, standard tests, oral exams, shadowing, training and retraining, etc.

Not exactly a world of difference there.

Significant differences between Norway vs US?  How about extremely low homicide rate.  Low violent crime rate.  Low crime rate in general.  It's almost like police coverage, equipment, and actions are reflexive to who they encounter and what they deal with. 

 

If you want to get into the real root of the differences, we can start with income equality, safety nets, all sorts of long-established societal stuff... but easier to blame everything on 1 party/group

From the link above:

Spoiler

“I think that the United States must learn that it takes time to educate people,” says Rune Glomseth, a professor at Norweigan police university college. “Police are a very special role in society and you can’t just train them for a few weeks. You need time.” Even once students have graduated, they are required to complete fifty hours of operational training per year. “If our officers were trained as extensively as police in Norway, they would be less reliant on deadly force,” says Hirschfield.

Officers in both Norway and Finland also work in tandem with medical professionals, particularly psychiatric specialists that accompany officers when dealing with people who are exhibiting signs of mental illness. In contrast, funding for psychiatric services in the United States has been cut in recent years, resulting in police officers handling cases of people who are mentally ill often without having the background knowledge to do so. The result is striking: A Washington Post analysis found that 25% of people shot by police officers during a six months period in 2015 were experiencing severe mental health issues.

The greatest skill a police officer can have is “critical reflection,” says Oddsson. “We need people [on the streets] who are cognizant of the fact that being a police officer is like being a social worker.”

Laws Enforced on Police

In many of the countries where police are unarmed, officers have to abide by stricter laws.

Under the European Convention of Human Rights, officers can only shoot if it’s “absolutely necessary.” In Finland and Norway, officers cannot pull the trigger in any circumstances before getting permission from a more senior official. In the U.S., by contrast, “the overriding goals of current law, policy, and training on the use of force … [are] to protect the safety of police,” says Hirschfield.

Experts say that the state and federal governments in the United States could learn from Europe, by adopting laws that make it easier to prosecute and dismiss police officers for misconduct, alongside creating more rigorous licensure and training requirements.

NYPD is hard to get into.  Is NYPD representative of the US PD's as a whole?  What is the rate for the US on average?  What is the rural vs mid major city vs major city rate?   One is a 3 year degree.  The other is an associates.   I saw one link (I closed it before including it here) where more that 50% of the cops have AA degrees and ~30% of them have BS's.  This seems widely variable to me and one appears to definitely have a higher standard.   Police have a shitload of power.  It is not asking too much for them to be educated?   

No one said anything about our society being a mirror with Norway.  (Plus it is not like this is new information that everyone doesn't already know.) Strawman distractions do not work on me.  No one said anything about the cause or solution to all of our problems being a binary switch, again, strawman distractions do not work on me.  Please either stay on topic, do not make fallacious arguments, or offer anecdotes as an expression of the whole.

Norway seem capable of handling their nation without a horse treatment approach to policing (Farside joke).    

We touched on the warrior cop mentality (I believe in the other thread) that is prevalent here in the US and in the article linked (and underlined) there is a stark contrast to how the police approach society and how and when they can use firearms.   Their use of firearms is restricted and needs approval, much like from what I understand, how our military operates.   

Norway is just 1 of the 19 disarmed police forces.   

[SHOOTER12 8808]

34 minutes ago, TexasHooch said:

 

Yes it is possible. She'll be double fucked if so. I still think she was probably wearing them on opposite hips per policy.  Her brain told her taser and her muscle memory told her gun.

I could tell she was holding the gun in her right, but couldn't tell where she drew it from, left or right, did she draw it with one hand and switch to the other, or could she be left handed?

[Nivek 16928]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

 

NYPD has ~15,000 annual applicants to take police exam.  With ~1300 net new police officers employed, that makes it a 9% rate.  An ex NYPD and current CJ lecturer says NYPD puts ratio of application to officer at 15:1

The "BS" degree required in Norway is a 3 year program.  Most US PDs require ~60hrs college credit, which is roughly equivalent... and uh, you know, psych tests, standard tests, oral exams, shadowing, training and retraining, etc.

Not exactly a world of difference there.

 

Serpico was also the NYPD.  Gloria Gonzalez is a family friend, she served in the NYPD, was harassed, quit, was harassed more, and she won in court.   Oh, her original problem was that she didn't like getting her tits/ass grabbed.  That is what set them off.     Granted these are just anecdotes of the PD you claimed was highly trained.  

[52-80 19155]

5 minutes ago, Nivek said:

From the link above:

  Hide contents

“I think that the United States must learn that it takes time to educate people,” says Rune Glomseth, a professor at Norweigan police university college. “Police are a very special role in society and you can’t just train them for a few weeks. You need time.” Even once students have graduated, they are required to complete fifty hours of operational training per year. “If our officers were trained as extensively as police in Norway, they would be less reliant on deadly force,” says Hirschfield.

Officers in both Norway and Finland also work in tandem with medical professionals, particularly psychiatric specialists that accompany officers when dealing with people who are exhibiting signs of mental illness. In contrast, funding for psychiatric services in the United States has been cut in recent years, resulting in police officers handling cases of people who are mentally ill often without having the background knowledge to do so. The result is striking: A Washington Post analysis found that 25% of people shot by police officers during a six months period in 2015 were experiencing severe mental health issues.

The greatest skill a police officer can have is “critical reflection,” says Oddsson. “We need people [on the streets] who are cognizant of the fact that being a police officer is like being a social worker.”

Laws Enforced on Police

In many of the countries where police are unarmed, officers have to abide by stricter laws.

Under the European Convention of Human Rights, officers can only shoot if it’s “absolutely necessary.” In Finland and Norway, officers cannot pull the trigger in any circumstances before getting permission from a more senior official. In the U.S., by contrast, “the overriding goals of current law, policy, and training on the use of force … [are] to protect the safety of police,” says Hirschfield.

Experts say that the state and federal governments in the United States could learn from Europe, by adopting laws that make it easier to prosecute and dismiss police officers for misconduct, alongside creating more rigorous licensure and training requirements.

NYPD is hard to get into.  Is NYPD representative of the US PD's as a whole?  What is the rate for the US on average?  What is the rural vs mid major city vs major city rate?   One is a 3 year degree.  The other is an associates.   I saw one link (I closed it before including it here) where more that 50% of the cops have AA degrees and ~30% of them have BS's.  This seems widely variable to me and one appears to definitely have a higher standard.   Police have a shitload of power.  It is not asking too much for them to be educated?   

No one said anything about our society being a mirror with Norway.  (Plus it is not like this is new information that everyone doesn't already know.) Strawman distractions do not work on me.  No one said anything about the cause or solution to all of our problems being a binary switch, again, strawman distractions do not work on me.  Please either stay on topic, do not make fallacious arguments, or offer anecdotes as an expression of the whole.

Norway seem capable of handling their nation without a horse treatment approach to policing (Farside joke).    

We touched on the warrior cop mentality (I believe in the other thread) that is prevalent here in the US and in the article linked (and underlined) there is a stark contrast to how the police approach society and how and when they can use firearms.   Their use of firearms is restricted and needs approval, much like from what I understand, how our military operates.   

Norway is just 1 of the 19 disarmed police forces.   

NYPD is simply the bigggest, most prominent force, and thus the easiest to draw numbers from.  And not exactly without history of accusations so not a cherry-picked example.  If anyone has better numbers, we're all ears.

By god will I never insist the US police force are white-gloved squeaky-clean - fuck no.  My stance is the "American police" situation --- the "warrior cop mentality" is a reflexive dynamic, representative of a high rate of crime.  It is baffling how some keep pointing finger at 1 side of this equation, while reaching for comparisons to Norway.... and (from your link) to Iceland and Finland. 

Quote

there is a stark contrast to how the police approach society

Norway has a population that is twice of the city of Chicago.  It had 30 homicides last year, the highest in a decade.  Chicago hosts 60+ a month.  A typical Norwegian police - how often do you think they encounter someone mentally deranged?  with a weapon?  actively evading? how many patrols do they have to do through gang turfs? Literally what passes for police television in Norway are purse snatchers on mopeds leading a police chase through a city park.  In that context, how often would you think they would EVER need to use a gun?

 

 

[52-80 19155]

2 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Serpico was also the NYPD.  Gloria Gonzalez is a family friend, she served in the NYPD, was harassed, quit, was harassed more, and she won in court.   Oh, her original problem was that she didn't like getting her tits/ass grabbed.  That is what set them off.     Granted these are just anecdotes of the PD you claimed was highly trained.  

Didn't say they were highly trained.  Said they are as selective as the Norwegian police.  In post above - I said NYPD was specifically not a cherry pick, as its a notoriously far from a clean reputation.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

Just now, 52-80 said:

Didn't say they were highly trained.  Said they are as selective as the Norwegian police.  In post above - I said NYPD was specifically not a cherry pick, as its a notoriously far from a clean reputation.

That’s fair, but can you please stop people like Chody from becoming a Sheriff and hiring people like Jimmy Fennell?  Nah because law and order.  

[52-80 19155]

Just now, Judge Roybeanbag said:

That’s fair, but can you please stop people like Chody from becoming a Sheriff and hiring people like Jimmy Fennell?  Nah because law and order.  

Hate that guy.  Easily the worst late night TV show host.

[Bateshorn 9927]

Air fresheners, tinted windows, expired tags, broken tail light.  These are nuisance laws that give police the broad discretion to pull people over. And in many communities, those laws are often selectively enforced on minority communities. And they are a massive waste of society's time and resources.  Tags should be a parking violation, not a reason to pull someone over.   Tail lights are an inspection issue.   In a worse case scenario, here's how a tail light pull over should go:

"Listen, I pulled you over because you have a broken tail light.  Get that fixed so you don't get rear ended.  Please be safe driving home.  Good Day."

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

1 minute ago, 52-80 said:

Hate that guy.  Easily the worst late night TV show host.

At least you can choose not to watch or change the channel.  The majority of us in America continue to get minority opinions rammed down our throats.  

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

23 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Just a note -- lots of folks around here note that "actually, not that many unarmed black men are shot each year."  And they aren't wrong.  The thing is.....not that many cops are shot, either.  It happens.  It's awful when it does.  But as has been pointed out, being a cop is far from the most dangerous profession.

By treating it as if it were, we justify all manners of abuses.  Which creates more mistrust.  Which creates more citizen resistance.  Which leads to more violent interactions.  I don't see how to stop that spiral.  Shit, I don't even see much interest in stopping it.

You know what’s a real dangerous job?  truck driver. Nobody ever talks about them being hero’s. 
dangers a cop faces in their line of work are grossly overstated. It’s a shit job in a lot of ways I’m sure, but it’s not really all that dangerous and they are more than compensated financially for the amount of danger they willingly agree to take on. 

[Poe It Up 126]

Ok, that live update was painful. Also, can they not get that mayor a better hat? 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

You know what’s a real dangerous job?  truck driver. Nobody ever talks about them being hero’s. 
dangers a cop faces in their line of work are grossly overstated. It’s a shit job in a lot of ways I’m sure, but it’s not really all that dangerous and they are more than compensated financially for the amount of danger they willingly agree to take on. 

(I-35 driver)Truck drivers are assholes! (I-35 driver)

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

Just looked up the numbers- looks like you have about a 1.9 in 10,000 chance of dying on duty as a cop. More dangerous than I’d have thought. 
truck drivers have a 2.4 in 10,000 chance of sting on the job. 
.8 firemen per 10,000 died on the job last year 

7 soldiers per 10,000 die a year in non war situations. So, being a soldier (training/not deployed) is way more deadly than any of those other jobs by percentage, and we out soldiers in peace time way less than police and firemen. 
What’s the point of all this?  I like numbers and I like context when talking about the size and scope of a problem. 

[Armybrat 40842]

1 hour ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Why would they do that?  Then there's no excuse to pull anyone over like in the OP of this thread.  The general consensus is COMPLY.  Unless it's in regard to facemasks or election results or transgender something.  Then you can bitch incessantly about it.  And by 'you" I mean the royal You, not you specifically.

Well, I was raised in a military family on Army posts until high school, so you betcha I complied.

Moving to Austin as a “civilian” in 1959 was a heckuva culture shock to put it mildly.

[TexasHooch 5122]

29 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

I could tell she was holding the gun in her right, but couldn't tell where she drew it from, left or right, did she draw it with one hand and switch to the other, or could she be left handed?

The gun should always be on the dominant side.  The taser is supposed to be on the opposite side of the gun. Given that the video shows her holding the gun in her right hand, It's highly likely that she's right handed and drew her gun from her right hip.  The location of the taser is the big question  It should have been on her left hip. Personally, I think we'll learn that it was.  Being a woman, and therefore likely smaller, I doubt that she would have had room to comfortably carry both on one side.

[wildcat09 29354]

8 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Just looked up the numbers- looks like you have about a 1.9 in 10,000 chance of dying on duty as a cop. More dangerous than I’d have thought. 
truck drivers have a 2.4 in 10,000 chance of sting on the job. 
.8 firemen per 10,000 died on the job last year 

7 soldiers per 10,000 die a year in non war situations. So, being a soldier (training/not deployed) is way more deadly than any of those other jobs by percentage, and we out soldiers in peace time way less than police and firemen. 
What’s the point of all this?  I like numbers and I like context when talking about the size and scope of a problem. 

https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states

Cops have the 22nd most dangerous job. Behind loggers, aircraft pilots and flight engineers, roofers, garbage collectors, iron workers, delivery drivers, farmers, firefighting supervisors, power linemen, agriculture workers, crossing guards, crane operators, construction helpers, landscaping supervisors, highway maintenance workers, cement masons, small engine mechanics, mechanics' supervisors, heavy vehicle mechanics, and park maintenance workers. 

And a whole lot of police "on duty" deaths are from heart attacks, not violence.

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

.05 per 10,000 “unarmed” black men killed by cops. 
.35/10,000 black men overall killed by cops. 
.073 per 10,000 white men killed by cops 

I made some assumptions and extrapolations on the white men. It might be more than that- but it doesn’t approach the number for black men. You can argue about why that is, but at no point in time is it particularly likely to happen. 
looks like cops get killed by people they interact with significantly more than they kill those people- and that’s the way it ought to be as they signed up for the job in a way a citizen didn’t, but it’s not a big number in any direction. 
when we talk about when will this stop and how can we solve this I don’t know that we can solve a 3/100k type situation. At a certain point having lots of people means you will have shit happen. 
I’m open to any solution that will solve it- that doesn’t throw the baby out with the bath water. 
I think completely disarming cops probably leads to more deaths than this in America but I’m not sure. I’d be ok maybe with trying it somewhere and seeing how it worked?  Or maybe 3 somewhere’s (urban, suburban and rural) and see if it’s worth exploring?  
 

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states

Cops have the 22nd most dangerous job. Behind loggers, aircraft pilots and flight engineers, roofers, garbage collectors, iron workers, delivery drivers, farmers, firefighting supervisors, power linemen, agriculture workers, crossing guards, crane operators, construction helpers, landscaping supervisors, highway maintenance workers, cement masons, small engine mechanics, mechanics' supervisors, heavy vehicle mechanics, and park maintenance workers. 

And a whole lot of police "on duty" deaths are from heart attacks, not violence.

That’s smarter than how I did it. I’m an idiot. Thanks. 

[TexasHooch 5122]

Quote

And a whole lot of police "on duty" deaths are from heart attacks, not violence.

Illness and motor vehicle accidents make up a big percentage.

[52-80 19155]

28 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Air fresheners, tinted windows, expired tags, broken tail light.  These are nuisance laws that give police the broad discretion to pull people over. And in many communities, those laws are often selectively enforced on minority communities. And they are a massive waste of society's time and resources.  Tags should be a parking violation, not a reason to pull someone over.   Tail lights are an inspection issue.   In a worse case scenario, here's how a tail light pull over should go:

"Listen, I pulled you over because you have a broken tail light.  Get that fixed so you don't get rear ended.  Please be safe driving home.  Good Day."

 

in general im for less cop cruising, but seeing all the hoopties rolling coal, spewing smoke, not having lights on in rain, weaving through traffic, etc - fuck it some people should be pulled over.

we can do more speed cams like in europe but surly dont like that either. 

one time i had Houston PD park underneath a highway overpass, speedtrapping people who were taking the down-ramp exit.  caught me, and slapped on a no-front-plate ticket, and a rear-plate-obstruction ticket.... because i used a fucking official Longhorn license frameholder bought from the UT Coop.  fuck those cops entirely.  (tix  dismissed because they were a no-show in court.  pffft)

 

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

Just now, TexasHooch said:

Illness and motor vehicle accidents make up a big percentage.

So- the 1.9 per 10,000 isn’t cops being killed by civilians only, it’s some of this and some of that?  So maybe I wasn’t way off that on how low cops getting killed in line of duty was. Because that number was higher than I suspected. 
thanks to you and @wildcat09

[lemonlime 5503]

7 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states

Cops have the 22nd most dangerous job. Behind loggers, aircraft pilots and flight engineers, roofers, garbage collectors, iron workers, delivery drivers, farmers, firefighting supervisors, power linemen, agriculture workers, crossing guards, crane operators, construction helpers, landscaping supervisors, highway maintenance workers, cement masons, small engine mechanics, mechanics' supervisors, heavy vehicle mechanics, and park maintenance workers. 

And a whole lot of police "on duty" deaths are from heart attacks, not violence.

At a traffic stop, a cop is more likely to be killed by another car hitting him than from violence from the driver.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/07/12/are-most-job-related-deaths-of-police-caused-by-traffic-incidents/

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

Just now, lemonlime said:

At a traffic stop, a cop is more likely to be killed by another car hitting him than from violence from the driver.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/07/12/are-most-job-related-deaths-of-police-caused-by-traffic-incidents/

That would certainly be my suspicion. Which is why the cop in VA being irritated by the guy pulling into the gas station was so bizarre to me. He’s doing you a favor asshole. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

For the average vehicle stop by a police officer, they should not have a gun on them. the weapon should be secured in the car. I'm ok with them taking the weapon if the situation calls for it, but there should be standards on those reasons, and not just because they're scared. Also each weapon grab needs to be recorded.

Of course as we realize in the George Floyd case, unarming the police won't prevent all homicides.

 

[ztejas 43425]

3 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I'm ok with them taking the weapon if the situation calls for it

Like if the driver is black.

Poor humor aside - I like this practice.