daunte wright shooting

[Captainant 27,727]

1 minute ago, GopherRock said:

2nd degree manslaughter.

 

I think this is the right charge. Negligent discharge of a firearm that kills someone, no intention to kill, and no premeditation. 

Agreed, manslaughter seems most appropriate in this case. Heat of the moment leading to a trained and experienced professional acting with negligence. I'd imagine that the city is open to a wrongful death civil suit as well

[BabaYaga 15,305]

3 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Also:  would any of the white people on this page change races when they get pulled over by a cop for an expired tag?  This is the post to respond to and say yes if you would.

This is a complete hypothetical, but let me give you context.  One of my closest friends is a black man from MS.  Former RB @ "ol miss, grad school classmate.  He served in the military, and is an executive at a fortune 500 company.

He grew up in rural MS, has been profiled dozens and dozens of times.  We've had the discussions sitting around the campfire.  Faced asshole and stand-up officers, and was always taught to keep his cool, not pop off, not give "them the excuse".  He's had the hillbilly fuckfaces, and he's had genuinely good officers.  Never had a single altercation.  Always was respectful.  It was him that gave me the advice to roll down every window in the truck so they can see you and into the vehicle, especially at night.  So the point being there is also a measure of accountability that has be factored on here as well.  

[52-80 19,231]

28 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

Moving vehicle safety officers don’t need a gun. Pull someone over, give them a ticket. If they run, write them a bigger ticket or call in the special weapons and tactics unit if you believe them to be an immediate danger to others on the road.  
 

All fine and dandy if you assume all people pulled over are only liable for traffic citation (which they mostly are).

And conveniently ignore the cases where the pulled over flee and/or attack the officers because they don’t want to be busted with warrants, contraband, etc. 

[Carl Spackler 3,496]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

In CA they are not enforcing shoplifting up to a certain dollar amount, thus creating a massive perverse incentive for people to just walk into stores, take items that are under that dollar amount, and they just walk out.  It's utter madness and business owners are screaming to no avail that they cannot continue to operate in such a climate.

That's news to me.  I was aware that the dollar value distinction between a misdemeanor and felony had gone up to the point that people were stealing pretty nice items because it would still only be a misdemeanor if caught, but I had not heard anything about prosecutors in CA just completely refusing to file charges or police not taking any action as a matter of policy if the value is under a certain threshold.  Shoplifting would typically be charged locally, and each jurisdiction has its own practices and policies re: whether and how to enforce or charge, so I would think it would depend on where in CA the conduct occurs.  

[BabaYaga 15,305]

3 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

That's news to me.  I was aware that the dollar value distinction between a misdemeanor and felony had gone up to the point that people were stealing pretty nice items because it would still only be a misdemeanor if caught, but I had not heard anything about prosecutors in CA just completely refusing to file charges or police not taking any action as a matter of policy if the value is under a certain threshold.  Shoplifting would typically be charged locally, and each jurisdiction has its own practices and policies re: whether and how to enforce or charge, so I would think it would depend on where in CA the conduct occurs.  

They're intentionally not enforcing the misdemeanor amounts, thus creating the perverse incentive.  

[Carl Spackler 3,496]

10 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Which is precisely why the training and policies should be focused on avoiding these situations entirely. Trained police have these problems, yet we consistently expect our lay citizens to have perfect responses to stressful situations instigated by the police or risk death/serious injury. That is unacceptable. 

I don't disagree.  In fact, I definitely agree that LEO training on de-escalation, avoidance, mental health, and other similar items should be prioritized. 

One problem is that even though you have a certain amount of standardization relating to training on the state and local level (e.g., POST out here in California), it's still a real patchwork for the most part.  And smaller agencies often don't have the resources for high-level or in-depth training.   

[Bateshorn 9,930]

8 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

This is a complete hypothetical, but let me give you context.  One of my closest friends is a black man from MS.  Former RB @ "ol miss, grad school classmate.  He served in the military, and is an executive at a fortune 500 company.

He grew up in rural MS, has been profiled dozens and dozens of times.  We've had the discussions sitting around the campfire.  Faced asshole and stand-up officers, and was always taught to keep his cool, not pop off, not give "them the excuse".  He's had the hillbilly fuckfaces, and he's had genuinely good officers.  Never had a single altercation.  Always was respectful.  It was him that gave me the advice to roll down every window in the truck so they can see you and into the vehicle, especially at night.  So the point being there is also a measure of accountability that has be factored on here as well.  

So this is "The Talk"

Black people have an entire subculture about how to get through an interaction with police and continue to draw air.  That's a huge indictment of our policing system. Part of it is that police for 200 years were the de facto enforcers of America's racial caste system. Part of it is the transition of a formal caste system through Jim Crow and slavery fugitive laws to informal system based on the war on drugs.  But part of it is Police are simply not held fully accountable for their actions, be it qualified immunity, failure to convict on shootings, thin blue line, whatever.

But the fact that I've mouthed off to cops in my youth numerous times and never gotten more than a taste of the hood and put in cuffs indicates that our system is so very, very, very broken.

[J.R. Juniors Junior Jr. 1,084]

25 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Officer is charged with Second Degree Manslaughter. 

She should be charged with first degree stupid bitch.

"Taser, taser, taser, taser!"

(gunshot)

"Oh shit!"

Dynamite policework, Luanne

[Brisketexan 105,276]

11 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

This is a complete hypothetical, but let me give you context.  One of my closest friends is a black man from MS.  Former RB @ "ol miss, grad school classmate.  He served in the military, and is an executive at a fortune 500 company.

He grew up in rural MS, has been profiled dozens and dozens of times.  We've had the discussions sitting around the campfire.  Faced asshole and stand-up officers, and was always taught to keep his cool, not pop off, not give "them the excuse".  He's had the hillbilly fuckfaces, and he's had genuinely good officers.  Never had a single altercation.  Always was respectful.  It was him that gave me the advice to roll down every window in the truck so they can see you and into the vehicle, especially at night.  So the point being there is also a measure of accountability that has be factored on here as well.  

This is so fucked up.  He's been put to the test "dozens and dozens of times."  Average white guy is put to the test a handful of times.  The more you are tested, the more your chance of failing - just once -- goes up.

Shit, it's that way in any relationship -- the more your wife tests your patience on issue X, the higher the chances that one time, she hits you on a bad day, you blow up and say something you shouldn't, and have a big fight.

"Hey black people -- I need you to behave perfectly dozens and dozens of times, or else you might get shot.  And white people....I need you to behave perfectly 5-6 times, or else you might get shot."

That is super-extra-mega shitty.

[scottsins 1,969]

I'm a lawyer and I'm more than happy to say that all prosecutors are bastards.

I’m sure you are trolling/joking, but fuck off, just in case.

/surly

[BabaYaga 15,305]

9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This is so fucked up.  He's been put to the test "dozens and dozens of times."  Average white guy is put to the test a handful of times.  The more you are tested, the more your chance of failing - just once -- goes up.

Shit, it's that way in any relationship -- the more your wife tests your patience on issue X, the higher the chances that one time, she hits you on a bad day, you blow up and say something you shouldn't, and have a big fight.

"Hey black people -- I need you to behave perfectly dozens and dozens of times, or else you might get shot.  And white people....I need you to behave perfectly 5-6 times, or else you might get shot."

That is super-extra-mega shitty.

That's not true either.  You are just spinning a narrative.  He had plenty of white friends that had the same interactions.  I myself have had a number of them with ultra-shitty APD cops.  I had a picture for a long time of me bent over the hood of a cop car a buddy took with a broken cigarette dangling out of my mouth and my old straw cowboy hat on.  

These hyper-generalizations are just as anti-productive as anything else.  

[wildcat09 29,377]

It's always fascinating to see so-called conservative believers in small government justify why agents of the state should be allowed to act like rabid animals and why we should have lower expectations of conduct for them than we do for ordinary citizens.

[BabaYaga 15,305]

19 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

And smaller agencies often don't have the resources for high-level or in-depth training.   

Which is the point as well, that they need it the most as they also have the most cover in outlying areas to abuse their power.  

[Sandman 3,412]

53 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

what's the issue with air fresheners hanging from rear view mirrors?  are cops stereotyping cars that do this as belonging to minorities?  is it a code violation?  

I'm old and pretty white, so I was wondering the same thing. The only thing that I can think of it the "Black Ice" scented air freshener tree is commonly used by folks that wish to cover up the smell of weed in their car. I guess cops see that and assume you have some ganja in the car?

[BabaYaga 15,305]

20 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

So this is "The Talk"

Black people have an entire subculture about how to get through an interaction with police and continue to draw air.  That's a huge indictment of our policing system. Part of it is that police for 200 years were the de facto enforcers of America's racial caste system. Part of it is the transition of a formal caste system through Jim Crow and slavery fugitive laws to informal system based on the war on drugs.  But part of it is Police are simply not held fully accountable for their actions, be it qualified immunity, failure to convict on shootings, thin blue line, whatever.

But the fact that I've mouthed off to cops in my youth numerous times and never gotten more than a taste of the hood and put in cuffs indicates that our system is so very, very, very broken.

You asked about a switch, to which I wanted to give context that yes I would, knowing that a certain behavior type is always a good decision.  It's not a mystery.  It's compliance & respect.  Not even yes/no sir.  It's just not popping off.  To that end, I'd say yes I would switch knowing that I'm not going to pop off, assault, and try to flee scene of a stop and that I have a pretty good chance of going on about my day with zero warrants to my name to cause me any worry.

 

[BabaYaga 15,305]

4 minutes ago, Sandman said:

I'm old and pretty white, so I was wondering the same thing. The only thing that I can think of it the "Black Ice" scented air freshener tree is commonly used by folks that wish to cover up the smell of weed in their car. I guess cops see that and assume you have some ganja in the car?

Legalize it.  Move on.  

[InkaUtexas 26,078]

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Legalize it.  Move on.  

Then how do we buy all the MRAPs? 

[Bateshorn 9,930]

7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

You asked about a switch, to which I wanted to give context that yes I would, knowing that a certain behavior type is always a good decision.  It's not a mystery.  It's compliance & respect.  Not even yes/no sir.  It's just not popping off.  To that end, I'd say yes I would switch knowing that I'm not going to pop off, assault, and try to flee scene of a stop and that I have a pretty good chance of going on about my day with zero warrants to my name to cause me any worry.

 

Oh my sweet summer child. 

[Sandman 3,412]

9 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Legalize it.  Move on.  

Agreed. I don't drink or smoke and couldn't care less what others choose to do. Personal liberties and all that. 

"Smoke 'em up, Johnny!"

[BabaYaga 15,305]

4 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Then how do we buy all the MRAPs? 

MRAPs are F-ing fun to drive.  Don't hate.  

[BabaYaga 15,305]

2 minutes ago, Sandman said:

Agreed. I don't drink or smoke and couldn't care less what others choose to do. Personal liberties and all that. 

"Smoke 'em up, Johnny!"

Same.  Makes me sleepy.  Had a failed attempt as a 6'5, left handed pitcher.  Washed out, but the pain of pitching during, friends had a little "medicine" for me back in my room so I could rest up.  Never could use recreationally as it was like Nyquil.  

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,977]

I think the air freshener thing comes from not supposing to have anything obstructing the windshield. It obstructs your field of view, so it is technically illegal.

[Brothahorn 10,087]

1 hour ago, Bateshorn said:

Also:  would any of the white people on this page change races when they get pulled over by a cop for an expired tag?  This is the post to respond to and say yes if you would.

Hell Naw.

 

And there is nothing wrong with that either. 

52 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

This is a complete hypothetical, but let me give you context.  One of my closest friends is a black man from MS.  Former RB @ "ol miss, grad school classmate.  He served in the military, and is an executive at a fortune 500 company.

He grew up in rural MS, has been profiled dozens and dozens of times.  We've had the discussions sitting around the campfire.  Faced asshole and stand-up officers, and was always taught to keep his cool, not pop off, not give "them the excuse".  He's had the hillbilly fuckfaces, and he's had genuinely good officers.  Never had a single altercation.  Always was respectful.  It was him that gave me the advice to roll down every window in the truck so they can see you and into the vehicle, especially at night.  So the point being there is also a measure of accountability that has be factored on here as well.  

In some cases how you interact absolutely does matter.

[Brisketexan 105,276]

46 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

That's not true either.  You are just spinning a narrative.  He had plenty of white friends that had the same interactions.

Wait.....you really want to have the "black men don't get hassled/pulled over by the cops any more frequently than white men" argument?  Have at it, but not with me -- that's bad faith bullshit.  It's not "spinning a narrative."  We all fucking know that it's true that a generic black guy will be hassled/pulled over/detained more frequently than a generic white guy.  Come the fuck on, man.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,522]

1 hour ago, Carl Spackler said:

You do realize that protecting public safety entails, among other things, the occasional arrest of persons engaging in criminal conduct who are armed, don't you?  What do you propose that law enforcement personnel use to effect those arrests or to stop criminal conduct as it is occurring?  Harsh language?

The solution is not to disarm law enforcement -- at least not all law enforcement.  I'm not sure exactly what the overall "solution" is, but I tend to think it must involve radical changes in both policing philosophy and training, among other things. 

Pulling people over for speeding, tag violations, large air fresheners should be given over to meter maid types. Is there a danger the driver could shoot the meter maid? Yes but it will be much lower than armed police pulling them over.  Say the driver has outstanding warrants, is armed and willing to kill police. They still have little reason to shoot the meter maid, as that person is not going to arrest them, chase them, or get into an armed battle.

 

 

[Dahobbs 17,655]

9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Wait.....you really want to have the "black men don't get hassled/pulled over by the cops any more frequently than white men" argument?  Have at it, but not with me -- that's bad faith bullshit.  It's not "spinning a narrative."  We all fucking know that it's true that a generic black guy will be hassled/pulled over/detained more frequently than a generic white guy.  Come the fuck on, man.

From this particular poster I would classify it as ignorance or willful ignorance. He took away from his conversation with his friend what he wanted to hear and not what he was told. 

[InkaUtexas 26,078]

She has been arrested. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,522]

The status quo is unsustainable. Some police, or all if you like, use some tactics that put citizens in danger. But as the police start to feel that a "mistake" on the job can lead them to prison, they will stop policing. This happened in Baltimore after the Freddie Gray homicide. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/12/baltimore-police-not-noticing-crime-after-freddie-gray-wave-killings-followed/744741002/

 

[Fuck Tim Beck 3,834]

56 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I think the air freshener thing comes from not supposing to have anything obstructing the windshield. It obstructs your field of view, so it is technically illegal.

And the cop that pulls you over for this has a laptop, radar system, lights, and what else blocking their field of vision? Reason # eleventy billion that cops suck. 

[BabaYaga 15,305]

21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Wait.....you really want to have the "black men don't get hassled/pulled over by the cops any more frequently than white men" argument?  Have at it, but not with me -- that's bad faith bullshit.  It's not "spinning a narrative."  We all fucking know that it's true that a generic black guy will be hassled/pulled over/detained more frequently than a generic white guy.  Come the fuck on, man.

That's not what I said in the context of the conversation.  A conversation that started out with the hypothetical of would you switch.  

To which I said yes, and here is a clear example of a friend who has experienced first hand issues and managed them just fine.  Again, this is my response and justification for the answer.  My answer to the hypothetical.  

Leading to the broader conversation about black vs white interactions.  Another generalization.  Countered with more first hand evidence that he had plenty of friends that were pulled over as much as he had been.  Also managed well by their interactions with the officer.

 

 

[BabaYaga 15,305]

6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The status quo is unsustainable. Some police, or all if you like, use some tactics that put citizens in danger. But as the police start to feel that a "mistake" on the job can lead them to prison, they will stop policing. This happened in Baltimore after the Freddie Gray homicide. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/12/baltimore-police-not-noticing-crime-after-freddie-gray-wave-killings-followed/744741002/

 

Because both sides want better results, and the police are caught in the middle doing what many feel is an impossible job.  The argument is how to get there.  One wants to deconstruct and remove and reallocate resources.  One side wants to vastly increase their resources.  Most officers I know welcome both.  They'd LOVE not have to respond to DD calls.  They'd LOVE not have to get tangled in all that shit.  They'd also love better training, more time to rotate in and off shifts, and have mandatory training to better equip them to do their jobs.  

[UT_OB1 2,224]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

All fine and dandy if you assume all people pulled over are only liable for traffic citation (which they mostly are).

And conveniently ignore the cases where the pulled over flee and/or attack the officers because they don’t want to be busted with warrants, contraband, etc. 

You conveniently ignored what I typed. If they flee, let them go. People handing out tickets don’t need to give 2 flying fucks about outstanding warrants or “contraband.” (Oh no!). 
 

[UT_OB1 2,224]

2 hours ago, Carl Spackler said:

You do realize that protecting public safety entails, among other things, the occasional arrest of persons engaging in criminal conduct who are armed, don't you?  What do you propose that law enforcement personnel use to effect those arrests or to stop criminal conduct as it is occurring?  Harsh language?

The solution is not to disarm law enforcement -- at least not all law enforcement.  I'm not sure exactly what the overall "solution" is, but I tend to think it must involve radical changes in both policing philosophy and training, among other things. 

Jesus fuck.  Reading is hard. People who watch for public safety on the roads as it pertains to speeding, stop lights, etc don’t need to be the same people who investigate thefts, murder, etc. They really don’t even need to be cops. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,522]

6 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

Jesus fuck.  Reading is hard. People who watch for public safety on the roads as it pertains to speeding, stop lights, etc don’t need to be the same people who investigate thefts, murder, etc. They really don’t even need to be cops. 

Yes. And it doesn't mean that armed police still wouldn't have reasons to pull over a vehicle but it would be related more to reckless behavior or if they were looking for that vehicle in the first place.

[UT_OB1 2,224]

6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Yes. And it doesn't mean that armed police still wouldn't have reasons to pull over a vehicle but it would be related more to reckless behavior or if they were looking for that vehicle in the first place.

Might get some more legit police work done if they weren’t spending their time parked behind a bush trying to hit their $ quota for the month. 

[Brisketexan 105,276]

19 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

That's not what I said in the context of the conversation.  A conversation that started out with the hypothetical of would you switch.  

To which I said yes, and here is a clear example of a friend who has experienced first hand issues and managed them just fine.  Again, this is my response and justification for the answer.  My answer to the hypothetical.  

Leading to the broader conversation about black vs white interactions.  Another generalization.  Countered with more first hand evidence that he had plenty of friends that were pulled over as much as he had been.  Also managed well by their interactions with the officer.

 

 

Yes, police stops happen to both black and white people.

Yes, both black and white people materially improve their chances of a positive outcome with the "yessir, no sir" approach.

Which utterly misses the point.  The more CHANCES you have to fail, the more likely it is that you WILL fail.  I have to be polite and nice  when dealing with my wife.  If we only talk about tough issues once a month, I only have 12 chances a year for that to be a bad day for me, where I blow my cool, and say something stupid or mean that blows up into a huge fight.

If we have 10 of those conversations a month, then I now have 120 occasions instead of 12 on which I need to be on my good behavior, and not have a weak moment because I had a shitty day, or I'm tired, or goddamit, I've just had enough of this shit.  Meaning I have 10X the opportunity to FAIL, and then suffer the consequences.

THAT is the "bullshit" here (setting aside the fact that also, in general, the standard for "good behavior" by a generic black guy is going to be applied more stringently than it will for a generic white guy).  The bullshit is that while we are all expected to behave like angels when pulled over, black people have that expectation imposed on them -- and thus the chances of failing to meet it -- at a higher rate.  That's a problem.  The key point in your friend's story was not that he behaves well.  It's that he's been hassled "dozens and dozens" of times.  Dude.  That is FUCKED UP.

14 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Because both sides want better results, and the police are caught in the middle doing what many feel is an impossible job.  The argument is how to get there.  One wants to deconstruct and remove and reallocate resources.  One side wants to vastly increase their resources.  Most officers I know welcome both.  They'd LOVE not have to respond to DD calls.  They'd LOVE not have to get tangled in all that shit.  They'd also love better training, more time to rotate in and off shifts, and have mandatory training to better equip them to do their jobs.  

That all sounds great.  Even if it were true, they do a super-shitty job of communicating that to the people they supposedly serve.  Instead, they are defiant as fuck, run to the legislature to get pet bills punishing anything even remotely construed as "defunding" the police, and largely (I say "largely" because there have been a handful of welcome exceptions) oppose any and all legislative attempts at meaningful reform and shifting resource allocation.

Shit, I'd love to see a proposed legislative reform package come FROM law enforcement sources.  Jump on the team -- we all SHOULD be on the same side.

Oh, I'd add something to your proposed paragraph -- more expensive metro areas (like Austin) should offer an additional $10k a year stipend payable directly to housing costs for officers who choose to live in the city limits.  I bet we could even get Congress to make that sort of stipend/allowance non-taxable.

And, you know.....end the fucking War on Drugs, which is the single greatest destroyer of civil liberties and creator of violence and creator of disparate treatment of minorities in the past 50 years.  End it.  All of it.

[lemonlime 5,503]

4 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

Might get some more legit police work done if they weren’t spending their time parked behind a bush trying to hit their $ quota for the month. 

Also, if they didn't have to pull you over for speeding, and just sent the tickets, maybe they would have enough time to enforce the speed limit and send out tickets.  You know, actually contributing to public safety with tickets, as opposed to solely padding the coffers.  There have been numerous pedestrians killed by speeding drivers in my town.  It would be nice if those assholes doing 60 in a 30 actually got some tickets, as opposed to the once in a blue moon the cop has time to deal with this.

[Brisketexan 105,276]

5 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

Might get some more legit police work done if they weren’t spending their time parked behind a bush trying to hit their $ quota for the month. 

Also true.

We all want police to exist.  We all want them to "keep us safe."

Things that may help "keep us safe" -- regular patrols of neighborhoods, prompt and effective response to and investigation of crime reports/events (with well-trained detectives as appropriate), limited but well-trained rapid response teams that can use force to stop a dangerous situation (shooter, terrorist, etc.), deep interaction and familiarity with the communities they serve, enforcing safety-related traffic laws (speeding, DWI) appropriately.

Things that don't help "keep us safe" -- interdicting drugs (no amount of drug seizures has ever made it any harder to get a bump of coke at a night club), arresting people on drug charges, drug raids, pulling people over for bullshit minor infractions like an air freshener or window tint, doing jobs they aren't equipped to do (mental health counselor -- it's not fair to the cop or the mentally ill person).

They shouldn't be revenue generators. They shouldn't be "whatever the problem is, you go solve it."  Their job should be keeping the community safe, and working to make it  safer.

[Gene Parmesan 4,014]

2 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Also, if they didn't have to pull you over for speeding, and just sent the tickets, maybe they would have enough time to enforce the speed limit and send out tickets.  You know, actually contributing to public safety with tickets, as opposed to solely padding the coffers.  There have been numerous pedestrians killed by speeding drivers in my town.  It would be nice if those assholes doing 60 in a 30 actually got some tickets, as opposed to the once in a blue moon the cop has time to deal with this.

You want speeding cameras?  

[Brisketexan 105,276]

11 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

You want speeding cameras?  

I think they could be a VERY useful public safety device.....if they were not used as a revenue generator.  Instead, if you are clocked speeding at some high amount over the limit, you get a mailed warning telling you "we clocked you driving like a bat out of hell, this constitutes a warning.  If pulled over for speeding in the next 180 days, you are not eligible for any further warnings, and must be issued a citation."  And if it happens again, the next mailed warning informs you that evidence of these prior instances is required to be considered by the court in considering imposition of the maximum possible fine for any driving offense for which you are cited in the next 180 days.  Something like that.

So, when Speedy Speeder who has 2 mailed warnings gets busted for going 90 in a 55, the cop MUST issue him a ticket, and the court MUST consider this evidence of prior violations in determining whether to assess the max fine available.  Or maybe even allow an enhanced fine if there is evidence of other material safety infractions within 180 days prior to the citation at issue.  That way, the court can consider whether you are just someone who got busted speeding once, or whether you habitually endanger others.

There are ways to address all of the relevant concerns and make our roads safer.

[BrazilHorn 6,630]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

Because both sides want better results, and the police are caught in the middle doing what many feel is an impossible job.  The argument is how to get there.  One wants to deconstruct and remove and reallocate resources.  One side wants to vastly increase their resources.  Most officers I know welcome both.  They'd LOVE not have to respond to DD calls.  They'd LOVE not have to get tangled in all that shit.  They'd also love better training, more time to rotate in and off shifts, and have mandatory training to better equip them to do their jobs.  

I will say in regards to the shift timing is that should preclude them for working equivalent of OT hours at malls/church traffic monitoring/Retail etc

You do not get to tell me how shifts are too long and then go pick up hours in full police uniform with equipment paid by city somewhere else on your own time.

[52-80 19,231]

58 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

You conveniently ignored what I typed. If they flee, let them go. People handing out tickets don’t need to give 2 flying fucks about outstanding warrants or “contraband.” (Oh no!). 
 

If there are people out there with outstanding felony warrants and/or illegally carrying (high powered assault rifle / 20kg of fentanyl / [insert your boogie device of choice here]), and they had an encounter with law enforcement, which would normally be an opportunity for arrest, you'd be okay if they got away because this time its a different type of LEO?

 

 

[BabaYaga 15,305]

1 minute ago, BrazilHorn said:

I will say in regards to the shift timing is that should preclude them for working equivalent of OT hours at malls/church traffic monitoring/Retail etc

You do not get to tell me how shifts are too long and then go pick up hours in full police uniform with equipment paid by city somewhere else on your own time.

They need to cycle in and out of on-duty work.  Patrolling MOM and YOY wears down even the most capable officers.  Time down not spent fishing and playing golf, but dedicated training (mentioned earlier).  It has to be mandatory, recurring and continual for even the most seasoned officers.  

[lemonlime 5,503]

59 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

You want speeding cameras?  

Yes.  If used properly.  And as opposed to police using their discretion, which results in (1) pulling over more minorities and (2) pulling people over for complete bullshit.  There have been multiple pedestrians struck and killed in my neighborhood by people going well over the speed limit on back roads.  And the police aren't sitting there monitoring these backroads.  They're pulling people over on the main road for nonsense like an unregistered vehicle.  Stop pulling people over for bullshit.  And send automated tickets for real violations.

[Murfdogg21 4,423]

Sounds like several of you should lobby state and local governments to change the laws, rather than ask police to not enforce some laws. 

[BabaYaga 15,305]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

The key point in your friend's story was not that he behaves well.  It's that he's been hassled "dozens and dozens" of times.  Dude.  That is FUCKED UP.

Jesus Christ, over decades of time from the 70's and 80's yes.  Guess what.  So was I.  Shit,  I've been hassled dozens of time over the decades by Austin Police.  100% of them profiling me as some shithead frat boy (which I was).  My car has searched.  I did sobriety tests.  Accused of being on drugs.  Threatened.  Even put in the back of a squad car, then later let back out.  At no time do I pop off, threaten the officer, or try to flee the scene.  Especially when we were on the lake and possibly could have.

If you can only see one side of this, then you are as much a problem as any other factor.  

[WhatTheBuck 28,797]

29 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Yes.  If used properly.  And as opposed to police using their discretion, which results in (1) pulling over more minorities and (2) pulling people over for complete bullshit.  There have been multiple pedestrians struck and killed in my neighborhood by people going well over the speed limit on back roads.  And the police aren't sitting there monitoring these backroads.  They're pulling people over on the main road for nonsense like an unregistered vehicle.  Stop pulling people over for bullshit.  And send automated tickets for real violations.

Or they could install speed bumps. 

[purplepride95 6,890]

I'm black and I have been pulled over a LOT no exaggeration. I agree with Brisketexan on this issue. There have been a couple of times were I've lost my cool. Both times I was traveling for work. It is hard to keep your cool when you are getting pulled over for bull shit constantly. Especially in your scrubs because there was a burglary in the neighbor hood. That should not cost me my life.

 

[dcar00 14,345]

34 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Yes.  If used properly.  And as opposed to police using their discretion, which results in (1) pulling over more minorities and (2) pulling people over for complete bullshit.  There have been multiple pedestrians struck and killed in my neighborhood by people going well over the speed limit on back roads.  And the police aren't sitting there monitoring these backroads.  They're pulling people over on the main road for nonsense like an unregistered vehicle.  Stop pulling people over for bullshit.  And send automated tickets for real violations.

how do you use a speeding camera improperly and properly?

Edited April 14, 2021 by dcar00

[Brisketexan 105,276]

12 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Jesus Christ, over decades of time from the 70's and 80's yes.  Guess what.  So was I.  Shit,  I've been hassled dozens of time over the decades by Austin Police.  100% of them profiling me as some shithead frat boy (which I was).  My car has searched.  I did sobriety tests.  Accused of being on drugs.  Threatened.  Even put in the back of a squad car, then later let back out.  At no time do I pop off, threaten the officer, or try to flee the scene.  Especially when we were on the lake and possibly could have.

If you can only see one side of this, then you are as much a problem as any other factor.  

I don't see only "one side" of this.  I really can't believe we are still having this argument.

Yes or no -- with respect to encounters with law enforcement nationwide, who is likely to have more of them, a generic black guy or a generic white guy?  You know the answer.  It's not like there's no data out there.

https://www.sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2020/06/racial_disparities_traffic_stops.php#.YHdRbehKiUk

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/02/california-police-black-stops-force

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/criminal_justice/publications/criminal-justice-magazine/2020/winter/racial-profiling-past-present-and-future/

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2018/10/12/policing/

https://5harad.com/papers/100M-stops.pdf

 

And, I mean.... I could post 100 more.  This is a well-known, well-studied, and admitted issue.