Transgender athletics and legislation - For the kids!

[DanRydell 799]

14 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Jesus, pelvic exams?  Really? I care about my daughter’s athletics.  I help coach it.  Honestly I do give zero fucks about women’s college sports.  I’d rather watch the paint dry and once my daughter is 15-16 she’ll likely only play tennis and participate in cheerleading (she loves tumbling).  I wouldn’t thrill me if she was shooting hoops in her 20s   

But as a child playing Lacrosse, I don’t want her competing against biological males.  Nor does anyone else I know.  

Problem is everyone you know is also a piece of shit.

Edited April 13, 2021 by DanRydell

[bad_teammate 13132]

Some here feel the need to imagine that there is going to be a rash of boys getting into girls' sports in order to win. This is... idiotic. Middle school aged boys aren't going to pretend to be girls in order to win games. To argue this will be the case is just stupidity.

The next argument, I guess, is that there has always been a flood of trans girls waiting in the wings. That our schools are full of trans girl athletes who, up to this point, have been afraid to participate. I see no evidence of this. It is yet another thing that doesn't make sense. Trans people will make up a tiny percentage of the population as a whole, and not even all of those will be athletic, and not even all of THOSE will want to participate in sports anyway.

I just cannot forsee any way that this is impactful in a large-scale sense. It's a bunch of tempests in teapots.

[bad_teammate 13132]

double posting... in 2021!?

Edited April 13, 2021 by bad_teammate

[Nolacycling 893]

My in-depth research consists of listening to the afternoon sports show in SA on 760 and that guy says their are 10 "cases" of this issue. He has twin, different sex 9-year-olds and one is transgender. Try that one on for size.

[Royalfan5 2348]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Some here feel the need to imagine that there is going to be a rash of boys getting into girls' sports in order to win. This is... idiotic. Middle school aged boys aren't going to pretend to be girls in order to win games. To argue this will be the case is just stupidity.

The next argument, I guess, is that there has always been a flood of trans girls waiting in the wings. That our schools are full of trans girl athletes who, up to this point, have been afraid to participate. I see no evidence of this. It is yet another thing that doesn't make sense. Trans people will make up a tiny percentage of the population as a whole, and not even all of those will be athletic, and not even all of THOSE will want to participate in sports anyway.

I just cannot forsee any way that this is impactful in a large-scale sense. It's a bunch of tempests in teapots.

Plus how many folks are just going to use this as an excuse to be an asshole to every girl that has short hair, or throws the shot, or plays softball? 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Here's a little math, of which I am not well talented, but I blame my ADD and not my gender so there.

If the stat regarding the transgender population as being <1 percent of the total population (around something like .6 IIRC?) then here is some dialed down math for Texas. From committee work I think one of the numbers was that there are slightly less than 5 million students in Texas public schools. That is K-12 boys and girls. So I'll round up to 1 percent of five million. That is what? 50,000 students total? Going off of highschool, take the average Texas 5A school as having a population of about 2000 students frosh through senior and now you're looking at 20 students, some of whom will be girls identifying as boys and vice versa. I am skeptical that this is going to be the tsunami of students legislatures are harping upon nor does it specifically address the mental health issues of turning minors into political scapegoats over extracurricular activities.

 

[wildcat09 29258]

I'm confused, when did girl's lacrosse become full contact?

[Js1 85110]

6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I'm confused, when did girl's lacrosse become full contact?

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

I'm still butthurt that they codified rules so the games don't last over several days. That definitely played to my endurance genetics.

[MissingInAction 24824]

Its still piss no matter what hole it comes out of.

[Chuckie Finster 22600]

Would genuinely love to see the reaction of the "JUST USE GENDER ASSIGNED AT BIRTH!!!" parents when this dude steps onto the mat to wrestle their daughter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mack_Beggs

(I generally agree with b_t that this is a solution in search of a problem, but the absolute inability for these anti-trans folks to consider the unintended consequences of shit like this is astounding to me.)

[Ghost of LL 15492]

2 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Would genuinely love to see the reaction of the "JUST USE GENDER ASSIGNED AT BIRTH!!!" parents when this dude steps onto the mat to wrestle their daughter.

(I generally agree with b_t that this is a solution in search of a problem, but the absolute inability for these anti-trans folks to consider the unintended consequences of shit like this is astounding to me.)

And the unintended consequences are precisely what I've been pointing out to @Johnny Sack and @Anastasis, neither of whom want to engage on the issue.

[RomaVicta 29794]

Should persons of non-traditional gender determination be protected from descrimination and included in society?

WAIT, what about high school sports?!?!??!?!!??!?!

This is like the absurd concerns about bathroom use that largely derailed the Equal Rights Amendment. 

Idiot world manipulated by malign elements.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Should persons of non-traditional gender determination be protected from descrimination and included in society?

WAIT, what about high school sports?!?!??!?!!??!?!

This is like the absurd concerns about bathroom use that largely derailed the Equal Rights Amendment. 

Idiot world manipulated by malign elements.

*discrimination*

 

 

[hobbes2702 12846]

@Johnny Sack

What exactly do you think happens in high school women’s lacrosse? It’s not anything close to resembling the men’s game so I’m not sure why you keep referencing it as your example

[hobbes2702 12846]

57 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I'm confused, when did girl's lacrosse become full contact?

That’s what I was wondering? It’s fucking field hockey lol

[Kyle 207]

28 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Would genuinely love to see the reaction of the "JUST USE GENDER ASSIGNED AT BIRTH!!!" parents when this dude steps onto the mat to wrestle their daughter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mack_Beggs

(I generally agree with b_t that this is a solution in search of a problem, but the absolute inability for these anti-trans folks to consider the unintended consequences of shit like this is astounding to me.)

Seriously ... speaking of solutions looking for problems ... can you share the name of a trans person denied the ability to participate in sports? (maybe there are millions, I honestly have no idea ... much like the fake bathroom attacks from years ago feels like this had never really been a problem, but I may 100% be wrong).

[washparkhorn 9935]

Itchy trigger finger Kyle?

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

27 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Should persons of non-traditional gender determination be protected from descrimination and included in society?

WAIT, what about high school sports?!?!??!?!!??!?!

This is like the absurd concerns about bathroom use that largely derailed the Equal Rights Amendment. 

Idiot world manipulated by malign elements.

When I was a kid, constantly arguing over a "thing" caused that thing to be taken away.  Imagine no high school sports.  That's the only way to make sure those sinners don't participate.  Just can the whole thing.

[Don Johnson 4745]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

You're blowing up the question.

Since trans girls aren't just dominating girls' atheltics all over the place and this is JUST a matter of a small handful of individual situations, we don't need to make big sweeping decisions about the entire structure.

Well, you avoided the question.  We obviously separate the two, or as you would call it - "makes excuses" for those who are physically inferior.

To address your response, are you saying that if it was more widespread you would support legislation on this?

[bad_teammate 13132]

12 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

To address your response, are you saying that if it was more widespread you would support legislation on this?

No. I see no need for legislatures to involve themselves.

[Ghost of LL 15492]

11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

No. I see no need for legislatures to involve themselves.

God--we're in a world in which b_t sees no need for government regulation and self-described libertarians are running around demanding government intervention, because won't somebody please think of the children?!

I'm adopting Roma Victa's characterization: "Idiot world manipulated by malign elements."  It's succinct, descriptive, and accurate.

[Anastasis 23394]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

And the unintended consequences are precisely what I've been pointing out to @Johnny Sack and @Anastasis, neither of whom want to engage on the issue.

Not sure why you are @'ing me. I said that if you don't want to use sex to segment athletics, we should just use objective non-sex based measures to segment.  I think that that ends up in a place that will be counter productive for the vast majority of participants, but we seem to bog down in this discussion over the Ns of 1. If you want to consider other metrics that are not directly biologically based such a testosterone levels, you can use performance based metrics to segment. Take your club with 3 select boys teams and 3 select girls teams, mix them all together and pop out your 6 ranked teams that do not consider sex in the ranking process.  Fine by me.  Present yourself as a coed club and go schedule your games.  

Edited April 13, 2021 by Anastasis

[washparkhorn 9935]

9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

No. I see no need for legislatures to involve themselves.

How else are they gonna scam all that money from dumb moral majority voters? 

[Anastasis 23394]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

self-described libertarians are running around demanding government intervention

Which of the self-described libertarians on this thread has demanded government intervention?

[elfenix 34171]

33 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

When I was a kid, constantly arguing over a "thing" caused that thing to be taken away.  Imagine no high school sports.  That's the only way to make sure those sinners don't participate.  Just can the whole thing.

get the government out of marriage was a thing back during the height of the gay marriage debate. 

/raised catholic already able to split religious and government marriage all you protestants are weird

[DanRydell 799]

2 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Here's a little math, of which I am not well talented, but I blame my ADD and not my gender so there.

If the stat regarding the transgender population as being <1 percent of the total population (around something like .6 IIRC?) then here is some dialed down math for Texas. From committee work I think one of the numbers was that there are slightly less than 5 million students in Texas public schools. That is K-12 boys and girls. So I'll round up to 1 percent of five million. That is what? 50,000 students total? Going off of highschool, take the average Texas 5A school as having a population of about 2000 students frosh through senior and now you're looking at 20 students, some of whom will be girls identifying as boys and vice versa. I am skeptical that this is going to be the tsunami of students legislatures are harping upon nor does it specifically address the mental health issues of turning minors into political scapegoats over extracurricular activities.

 

And the Johnny Sacks of the world are really only concerned about mtf trans athletes. Most estimates are than 60-80% of trans persons are ftm so that cuts the numbers much futher.

[Beau Vine 54003]

16 hours ago, Kyle said:

The next logical step is age. If sex is just a construct that can be defined to infinity, why not let people identify at whatever age they feel like. No reason sexual biology should be limited to you know, sexual biology. Have Sark start recruiting a bunch of practice squad NFL guys and have them identify as 18-year-olds. I'm sure the lax league will not be impacted by 21-year-old guys competing against 15-year-old girls, cause you know, good players.

And what about werewolves?  As soon as it's OK for werewolves to compete, no one is ever going to win a basketball title again!

It's a verrrry slippery slope!

Edited April 13, 2021 by Beau Vine

[Born to Run 6568]

And what about werewolves?  As soon as it's OK for werewolves to compete, no one is ever going to win a basketball title again?
It's a verrrry slippery slope!

Well the Right in my lifetime have incrementaly undone gun control to the point where you can open carry a military grade weapon with high cap mags whilst being insane. Naturally they would accuse others of slippery slopes, it on brand. As is being disingenuous and dishonest about issues.

[wildcat09 29258]

We need to outlaw Air Buds in sports.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

I can't say I'm surprised that this thread is active and alive, but I did just want to stop by and say that if you're not actually trans and you still claim to care about this issue, it just proves you're a moron, and all your shit's regarded.

[Kyle 207]

32 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

And what about werewolves?  As soon as it's OK for werewolves to compete, no one is ever going to win a basketball title again!

It's a verrrry slippery slope!

Asked and answered Q but nice try.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Kyle

[mchookem 16224]

21 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

I can't say I'm surprised that this thread is active and alive, but I did just want to stop by and say that if you're not actually trans and you still claim to care about this issue, it just proves you're a moron, and all your shit's regarded.

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by mchookem

[workswithseed 2037]

1 hour ago, elfenix said:

get the government out of marriage was a thing back during the height of the gay marriage debate. 

/raised catholic already able to split religious and government marriage all you protestants are weird

Alright, don't get high and mighty. We didn't see the Spanish Inquisition cause Catholics must have been small government all along till then.

Edited April 13, 2021 by workswithseed
Damn.

[Dahobbs 17447]

3 hours ago, Kyle said:

Seriously ... speaking of solutions looking for problems ... can you share the name of a trans person denied the ability to participate in sports? (maybe there are millions, I honestly have no idea ... much like the fake bathroom attacks from years ago feels like this had never really been a problem, but I may 100% be wrong).

I'm confused what you think problem is now or was during the fake bathroom attacks. Let me give you a hint: the problem is legislatures drafting/passing laws that deny or limit trans folks from participating.  And that is exactly what happened during the bathroom attacks. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Dahobbs

[troph 24563]

it is a problem and you have to view this particular issue from the lens in which it was raised by the various southern state legislatures.  trans kids can't transition - by law.  parents get in trouble if they help their kids transition - by law.  doctors are not allowed to treat trans kids for being trans - by law.  and then the fun one, trans kids can't compete - by law.  it's such a serious issue it is being made a crime in some states.  These bills, just like the bathroom bills are designed by cruel and hateful humans to try and force us back under the rock they hid us under.  These bills are attempts to make us pretend to ourselves we don't exist.  That's really what this is about.  This attack started immediately after obergefell v. hodges, it was predicted by the progressive organizations and it is all funded by the same ultra-right wing "christian" political groups.  they write the bills, find sponsors and then ram them through legislatures.  This has never been about "protecting" anyone.  This is about erasure.  The problem is they keep losing and so it's a hodge podge of well, this issue, or that issue but again, they simply want all LGBTQ erased and especially trans folks.  people say a solution in search of a problem - it's not that.  This is a bunch of vile people waving the onward Christian soldier flag thinking they are doing the Lord's work, instead they are - once again - ruining the message of Christ in the name of culture wars.  

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by troph

[Nicole44 22027]

Thanks @troph for weighing in. Earlier upthread I was being sarcastic and got negged and rightfully so. That’s what happens when I decide to deal with being sad (death of my 16 year old dog three weeks ago) have a few drinks and post, I personally wanted to apologize as I should have been clearer I was being sarcastic. Sincere apologies. ❤️

[troph 24563]

15 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Thanks @troph for weighing in. Earlier upthread I was being sarcastic and got negged and rightfully so. That’s what happens when I decide to deal with being sad (death of my 16 year old dog three weeks ago) have a few drinks and post, I personally wanted to apologize as I should have been clearer I was being sarcastic. Sincere apologies. ❤️

I found it out of character and wasn’t sure. I appreciate the point of clarity. Thank you. I’m sorry about your puppy, that’s so hard. 
 

I’ve also been watching the comments especially before it moved here to the CR.  My heart was actually full of gratitude. This board has largely been really great to me. Not always but mostly. The times folks cut its cut deep but I’ve recovered. My favorite part though is seeing so many people speak on these issues as allies. That wasn’t always the case. It’s completely flipped from a few loud supporters to now only a few loud detractors. That’s amazing.  Makes me want to go back to my fishing, boating and RV threads and other corners I hang out on and tell these cuddle bears they aren’t assholes after all!! In the end, we are all better when everyone can be at ease and enjoy each other because we all have so much to offer.  Life is fucking amazing, let’s all have an amazing fucking time together! 

Edited April 14, 2021 by troph

[Immaculate Vibes 114]