ERCOT Urging For Energy Conservation

[FartingMonk 3606]

58 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

It is. But a lot of that cost is because of political opposition. 

Yep.  If you estimate 100 million dollars 5 years.  Real cost turns out to be 3 billion 20 years due to litigation and the winds of political power

[Captainant 27660]

18 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

I haven't read in depth about core design on SMRs yet, but at the end of the day it's just a hot rock that makes water into steam and that steam makes a turbine spin making electricity 

Eh sort of - the Seadrift reactor will be gas cooled - high temp helium - that will carry the heat to an exchanger to create steam. But the point being - there's no cooling fluid to get too low, or sudden phase change to contend with. Since the helium goes through a ~500° temp gradient, the design uses the increase in temp to drive the fluid convection to circulate fresh He through the core. 

It is more or less the same cycle, but it's also significantly different from PWR operation due to physical material differences. Hell, just having a neutron-invisible cooling fluid that doesn't react with your fuel makes the whole system much more predictable compared to a legacy gen2/3 PWR

Edit: the NRC filing from the recent approval has most the info I'm talking about here, it's where I'm sourcing from

Edited September 5, 2023 by Captainant

[Dahobbs 17534]

13 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

What is % of relatively clean coal to relatively dirty coal

 

9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Doesn't much matter, as there isn't much anthracite being burned in the US these days.  So, comparing to the menu of the reasonably available generation options, I gave you the numbers.

Yup. Percentage difference isn't changing much. Natural gas releases between 46% and 56% as much co2 per million btu.  

kg co2/million btu

Anthracite 103.69

Bituminous 93.24

Subbituminous 97.13

Lignite 98.16

Coke 113.67

Natural Gas 52.91

(https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/co2_vol_mass.php)

 

[FartingMonk 3606]

47 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Eh sort of - the Seadrift reactor will be gas cooled - high temp helium - that will carry the heat to an exchanger to create steam. But the point being - there's no cooling fluid to get too low, or sudden phase change to contend with. Since the helium goes through a ~500° temp gradient, the design uses the increase in temp to drive the fluid convection to circulate fresh He through the core. 

It is more or less the same cycle, but it's also significantly different from PWR operation due to physical material differences. Hell, just having a neutron-invisible cooling fluid that doesn't react with your fuel makes the whole system much more predictable compared to a legacy gen2/3 PWR

Edit: the NRC filing from the recent approval has most the info I'm talking about here, it's where I'm sourcing from

They work the same.  Heated water under high pressure goes into an exchanger to low pressure water to make steam.  It's just heated gas.  The hot leg vs a cold leg of a PWR can have a 140 degree delta T.  

 You keep saying SMRs so I got confused.  All that is is a pebble bed helium cooled reactor.  It's not anything new.  The only thing new about that report is the XE-100 fuel.  That's a xenon poison coated fuel.  But right now read the stuff on the bottom.  Where it says not tested.  That's where it is important.  It looks like all of the stuff is computer modeled.  Put something of substance out before jumping to scale.  That SMR also only addresses the primary side.  What happens after it makes steam.  All of that stuff is not included in the magic box.

[atomheartbevo 89659]

ERCOT putting out "weather" alerts for tomorrow through Friday.

[Deej 76768]

What's more of a threat to children?

Drag shows or no electricity to run air conditioning?

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

Probably should go in the trivial things that annoy you thread but I don’t get why people leave their outside lights on 24/7.  I drive around my neighborhood and probably 1/3 or more of the houses have all their porch/garage floodlights on during the day.  Turn that shit off or get smart devices.  Every little bit helps.  

[Paper_jam 831]

9 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Probably should go in the trivial things that annoy you thread but I don’t get why people leave their outside lights on 24/7.  I drive around my neighborhood and probably 1/3 or more of the houses have all their porch/garage floodlights on during the day.  Turn that shit off or get smart devices.  Every little bit helps.  

Even at night, there's gross overuse of outdoor lighting. Almost every house in my hood keeps lights blasting (front and back yards) all night long, like it will keep the boogeyman away. One down side to energy efficient lighting is that since it doesn't impact the electric bill much anymore, there's no incentive to use restraint.

We need laws to prevent light trespass--light your own property if you want, but if your neighbors can see direct glare from your unshielded fixtures you are doing it wrong.

 

[InkaUtexas 25918]

18 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Probably should go in the trivial things that annoy you thread but I don’t get why people leave their outside lights on 24/7.  I drive around my neighborhood and probably 1/3 or more of the houses have all their porch/garage floodlights on during the day.  Turn that shit off or get smart devices.  Every little bit helps.  

Now let's talk about perfect green grass lawns in Central Texas. I want to make round up bombs. 

[Hpara759 1778]

29 minutes ago, Deej said:

What's more of a threat to children?

Drag shows or no electricity to run air conditioning?

That's an easy one

[jettrink 40]

Fuck ercot

[atomheartbevo 89659]

1 hour ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Probably should go in the trivial things that annoy you thread but I don’t get why people leave their outside lights on 24/7.  I drive around my neighborhood and probably 1/3 or more of the houses have all their porch/garage floodlights on during the day.  Turn that shit off or get smart devices.  Every little bit helps.  

1 hour ago, Paper_jam said:

Even at night, there's gross overuse of outdoor lighting. Almost every house in my hood keeps lights blasting (front and back yards) all night long, like it will keep the boogeyman away. One down side to energy efficient lighting is that since it doesn't impact the electric bill much anymore, there's no incentive to use restraint.

We need laws to prevent light trespass--light your own property if you want, but if your neighbors can see direct glare from your unshielded fixtures you are doing it wrong.

I don't think a lot of people realize that those lights make it easy for burglars to case out doors/windows/etc. and in some cases, leaving the lights on without them being turned off regularly when you go to bed, etc., can make burglars think that nobody is home.  If you feel the need to have a light on, have it on a timer inside.  And steal some home security system signs from your neighbors and stick them near your doors.  

[Okie State 3818]

Are you guys talking about landscape lighting? My entire setup front and back uses like 50 watts.

[InkaUtexas 25918]

Another way to look at it is this. I know where the obstacles are. I can navigate my house and yard at night. 

Dickhead burglar does not. Run into the plants, make noise, that wakes ups the pups. I would rather have dogs than lights. 

I have blackout curtains in the bedroom since the neighbors in front of my insist on illuminating all the trees in their yard. And their lawn is perfect. Fuck them. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

36 minutes ago, Okie State said:

Are you guys talking about landscape lighting? My entire setup front and back uses like 50 watts.

I was talking more about porch lights and garage mounted floodlights.  Although people who have backyard lighting strung around their trees up high and leave them on all night also annoy me.  House a couple doors down does that.  

[Okie State 3818]

I was talking more about porch lights and garage mounted floodlights.  Although people who have backyard lighting strung around their trees up high and leave them on all night also annoy me.  House a couple doors down does that.  

Gotcha. I agree that there is a right way and a wrong way to do lighting. Most people do it wrong. One house around the corner has about 150 under eave lights and it's lit up like a prison. I'd be raging if I lived across from them.

[InkaUtexas 25918]

That is me.... I live in front of that person. On all day. 

 

[Okie State 3818]

It's horseshit our HOA does nothing about it. The one time it would actually be helpful to have them enforce something.

[Samson's Wig 3192]

14 hours ago, Deej said:

What's more of a threat to children?

Drag shows or no electricity to run air conditioning?

It depends on the quality of the makeup, wigs, charisma, etc.  You don't just wake up an amazing drag queen, it takes work.  Subpar drag can be a serious threat, don't underestimate it.

[atomheartbevo 89659]

https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards

tight around 8pm, as usual.

[Hawndoh 2386]

An idiot in my neighborhood permanently mounted LED color changing Christmas lights and usea them for every holiday. Red at Valentine's, green at St Patrick's Day, etc etc.

 

[TexasEd 8066]

ERCOT paid a crypto miner $31.7 Million to shut down during the heat wave.   They made more in these energy credits than they did in Bitcoin.  Truly remarkable business model our state government has enabled.  All subsidized by taxpayers.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/06/texas-paid-bitcoin-miner-riot-31point7-million-to-shut-down-in-august.html

Quote

Riot said on Wednesday that it earned $31.7 million in energy credits last month from Texas power grid operator ERCOT. The company generated the credits by voluntarily curtailing its energy consumption during a record-breaking heatwave.

 The total value of the credits dwarfed the 333 bitcoin the company mined in August, worth about $8.9 million dollars as of the end of the month.

Quote

The Electric Reliability Council of Texas, or ERCOT, has a relatively simple and mutually beneficial relationship with bitcoin miners. The agency, through established “demand response” programs, pays miners to reduce their power so as not to overstress the grid when air conditioners need to run at full blast. In addition to summer difficulties, ERCOT also failed during the fatal winter storm of early 2021.

For years, Riot has been powering down operations at its Rockdale mine, about an hour from Austin, to help ease the burden on the state’s grid.

ERCOT has historically struggled with fluctuating energy prices and sporadic service, so it strikes deals with flexible energy buyers like crypto miners. The agency also counts on bitcoin miners to soak up excess power when there’s too much supply, keeping prices in check.

Texas has made itself an ally to the bitcoin mining industry through credits, but the financial incentives hit a snag in early 2023. A bill to cut off the mining industry from those credits – SB 1751 – passed the Texas State Senate in April, but ultimately stalled out in a House committee.

Instead, state lawmakers passed two mining-friendly bills expanding incentives and cutting red tape for the industry. Those went into effect on Sept. 1.

 

[Boss Hogg 808]

1 hour ago, Hawndoh said:

An idiot in my neighborhood permanently mounted LED color changing Christmas lights and usea them for every holiday. Red at Valentine's, green at St Patrick's Day, etc etc.

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89659]

16 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

ERCOT paid a crypto miner $31.7 Million to shut down during the heat wave.   They made more in these energy credits than they did in Bitcoin.  Truly remarkable business model our state government has enabled.  All subsidized by taxpayers.

 

Surly needs to setup a bitcoin operation to fleece somebody.

[Brisketexan 105120]

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Surly needs to setup a bitcoin operation to fleece somebody.

Pssssst.....EVERY "bitcoin operation" is set up to fleece somebody.

[Post Oak 20213]

I guess I don't understand how Bitcoin miners benefit the state.

[drt 638]

It boggles the mind why someone hasn’t taken a .300 Win mag to the transformer located closest to these fucking things. It’s going to happen sooner or later once people get no lubed enough. 

[Brisketexan 105120]

4 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

I guess I don't understand how Bitcoin miners benefit state leadership.

Edited to help you understand.

[TexasEd 8066]

7 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

I guess I don't understand how Bitcoin miners benefit the state.

Did you read the part where a bill to curtail bit mining was stopped and replaced with two to encourage it?

It's called campaign contributions.

Quote

Texas has made itself an ally to the bitcoin mining industry through credits, but the financial incentives hit a snag in early 2023. A bill to cut off the mining industry from those credits – SB 1751 – passed the Texas State Senate in April, but ultimately stalled out in a House committee.

Instead, state lawmakers passed two mining-friendly bills expanding incentives and cutting red tape for the industry. Those went into effect on Sept. 1.

 

[Dahobbs 17534]

38 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

ERCOT paid a crypto miner $31.7 Million to shut down during the heat wave.   They made more in these energy credits than they did in Bitcoin.  Truly remarkable business model our state government has enabled.  All subsidized by taxpayers.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/06/texas-paid-bitcoin-miner-riot-31point7-million-to-shut-down-in-august.html

 

 

Quote

The agency also counts on bitcoin miners to soak up excess power when there’s too much supply, keeping prices in check high.

Fify. 

Conceptually, I understand what ERCOT is doing. It is just a really fucking stupid and inefficient way to pay for more capacity. 

[davidg 4037]

Riot has about 450 MW of mining capacity in Rockdale at the old Alcoa plant. They plan on expanding to 750MW at that location. They are also currently in phase 1 construction of 250MW capacity in Navarro county and plan on expanding that to 1 GW.

In recent months the only money they have made is shutting down cpu’s and selling allotted electricity back to the grid instead. They have long term contracts to purchase at $0.02-0.03 kwhr and can sell back at much higher, all in the name of keeping the Texas grid stable.

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by davidg

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

At this point I’m almost rooting for Mexico to take back over.  At least then the corruption is straightforward and understood.  

[Exposition 93]

Emergency Alert 2 just issued. First time this year. 😨

[Brisketexan 105120]

Emergency Alert 2 just issued. First time this year. 

Yep, we got REAL close around 7:40. We’re getting some breathing room now, but there was about 15-20 touch and go minutes there.

[Captainant 27660]

30 minutes ago, Exposition said:

Emergency Alert 2 just issued. First time this year. 😨

Quick, someone pay a Bitcoin miner millions of dollars! It's the only way we can survive!!! [/GRUhorn]

[SizzleChest 8283]

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by SizzleChest

[Dahobbs 17534]

1 minute ago, SizzleChest said:

https://twitter.com/douglewinenergy/status/1699589506423259410?s=20

Those batteries made a shit ton of money right then. 

[SizzleChest 8283]

Haha.  What a tool.

 

[Biff Tannen 45678]

This is absolute madness 

[YGIFS 19450]

Sunset?  He's blaming the Sunset?  The thing we've accurately tracked to the minute for 1000 years?  Wow, ERCOT.  When you're done gargling balls, lemme explain to you how I know what time the sun will rise tomorrow.  Jesus, how do you guys go along with this taint-gagging.  

[Biff Tannen 45678]

Don’t worry. Bitcoin Pierre is certainly on the up and up. 

[Post Oak 20213]

6 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

Haha.  What a tool.

 

I want to strangle that Bitcoin leach.

[YGIFS 19450]

Oh wait, until you hear about the relationship between PUC and Pierre Rochard.  maybe it's why a certain leader of the former left office prematurely.  

[Biff Tannen 45678]

2 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Oh wait, until you hear about the relationship between PUC and Pierre Rochard.  maybe it's why a certain leader of the former left office prematurely.  

Go ahead and expound on that while I wait for my electricity to go out. 

[BLKNSTY 289]

Riot has about 450 MW of mining capacity in Rockdale at the old Alcoa plant. They plan on expanding to 750MW at that location. They are also currently in phase 1 construction of 250MW capacity in Navarro county and plan on expanding that to 1 GW.

In recent months the only money they have made is shutting down cpu’s and selling allotted electricity back to the grid instead. They have long term contracts to purchase at $0.02-0.03 kwhr and can sell back at much higher, all in the name of keeping the Texas grid stable.
 

any chance they said how long they have these deals? If it’s 10-20 years, $RIOT should be a billion dollar company soon.

[YGIFS 19450]

 Trust Ventures--->2 prominent GOP legislators from water/electric cooperative districts just west of here--->former pUC folks----> crypto mining operations --->next session's proposed bills---->PuC guy's oversight of ERCOT before he leaves office.  I'd mention names but I like that the Governor's former Chief of Staff put me on the emergency circuit in our neighborhood so we're not part of blackouts, just fallen limbs.  They're not even trying to hide this shit anymore.  I'll send you some more detail offline if you want to get truly depressed.

[Biff Tannen 45678]

I mean you’ve got to be fucking kidding me.  It is 2023 and I am telling my magat MIL that we can’t put the AC down to 67 where she wants it because ercot is threatening blackouts. And I can’t tell her that she should vote for different people so we could avoid this. Because truth hurts her brain and I get in trouble with my wife. What in the motherfuck is happening?!!??! 
 

Fuck this state. 

[Surly Bevo 24908]

Bitcoin Miners just living the Lloyd Dobler Dream

I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed.

[Brisketexan 105120]

Fify. 
Conceptually, I understand what ERCOT is doing. It is just a really fucking stupid and inefficient way to pay for more capacity. 

Oh, also, it’s not stupid when you realize that our market design is not designed to accomplish the goal of delivering electricity to consumers. It is designed to transfer the maximum amount of dollars from those consumers to generators (donors). Electricity is just the vehicle to accomplish that goal.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

29 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Don’t worry. Bitcoin Pierre is certainly on the up and up. 

I’m pretty sure Bitcoin Pierre was that bastard stealing beaver out of my GGGgrandpas traps up on the Poudre in the 1830s.  Meet the new boss, same as the old boss…

Edited September 7, 2023 by Judge Roybeanbag