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ERCOT Urging For Energy Conservation

Vic Mackey

By Vic Mackey
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He sure sang a different tune when that oak tree shed a load on his hypocritical ass. Fuck you Greg.

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SmokeyTheBear

SmokeyTheBear 5569

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Oh, also, it’s not stupid when you realize that our market design is not designed to accomplish the goal of delivering electricity to consumers. It is designed to transfer the maximum amount of dollars from those consumers to generators (donors). Electricity is just the vehicle to accomplish that goal.

What do you have against fetishized unchecked capitalism? 

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10995

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Surly Bevo said:

Bitcoin Miners just living the Lloyd Dobler Dream

I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed.

You know, as a career, I don't want to do that.

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elfenix

elfenix 34385

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Posted (edited)

“Major Major's father was a sober God-fearing man whose idea of a good joke was to lie about his age. He was a long-limbed cryptobro, a God-fearing, freedom-loving, law-abiding rugged individualist who held that state aid to anyone but cryptobros was creeping socialism. He advocated thrift and hard work and disapproved of instagram models who turned him down. His specialty was bitcoin, and he made a good thing out of not mining any. The government paid him well for every bitcoin he did not mine. The more bitcoin he did not mine, the more money the government gave him, and he spent every penny he didn't earn on new miners to increase the amount of bitcoin he did not mine. Major Major's father worked without rest at not mining bitcoin. On hot summer evenings he remained indoors and did not mine bitcoins, and he sprang out of bed at the crack of noon every day just to make certain that the miners weren't on. He invested in miners wisely and soon was not mining more bitcoin than any other man in the county. Neighbors sought him out for advice on all subjects, for he had made much money and was therefore wise. “As ye sow, so shall ye reap,” he counseled one and all, and everyone said, “Amen.”

Edited by elfenix
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90053

Posted
Posted

From KXAN:

Quote

According to the ERCOT, Texas set a new September peak demand record Wednesday of 82,705 MW driven by extreme heat across the state.

Quote

To protect the grid, ERCOT brought all available generation online, released remaining reserves, and used demand response to lower electric demand. ERCOT also worked with out-of-state Independent System Operators (ISOs) and Market Participants to obtain additional power generation capacity, the release said. Additionally, ERCOT obtained Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ) enforcement discretion, which allows a generator to extend its service/run-time/operations to help meet demand, if needed, to help maintain grid reliability.

James Franco GIF

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crash_davis

crash_davis 23155

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

Bitcoin Miners just living the Lloyd Dobler Dream

I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed.

I don't know, I can't figure it all out tonight so I'm just gonna hang out with your daughter. 

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19453

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

They want us to cut back 5-9pm tonight.  Because the sun is going down during that stretch or something.  Scientists are still studying it.

If only we had like a blue ribbon panel at our Legislature to oversee when the Sun would Set, so they could inform ERCOT.  Like a "Sunset Committee" if you will.  

I understand low wind, but the guy posted with no sense of irony, "And Sunset" yesterday.  I'm an O&G guy on some deals, and we're underwriting a nuclear SMR right now, and I think solar and battery storage has so much upside (we beta tested it on our tractor-trailers years ago but it's gotten so much more efficient and cost-effective).  But I'm just fucking done listening to some of you fucking people enable ERCOT when a talking point during rolling blackouts was "Sunset", and his tone was one of arm-shrugging vibe of "Sometimes shit happens, what can you do?  I dunno."  

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Trey3216

Trey3216 15380

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

 

So on brand for the Texas Legislature, ERCOT gonna be begging us normal serfs to cut back on our power usage while the Lege ice boxes a 140 year old building using god knows how much power...

 

Can't have all the yoga pant cladded housewives sweating too much at Target either... 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105572

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Mike is wrong.  And how he is wrong is important.  Those dollars are not public dollars.  ERCOT is a non-profit entity -- it is literally just a pass-through entity.  It collects no taxes, it administers no tax dollars.

The dollars paid in all come from ratepayers, at the end of the line.  So, it was millions of YOUR dollars, consumer of electricity, that we paid so that we could have enough power.

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MonkeyDoughnut

MonkeyDoughnut 10441

Posted
Posted

It's pretty obvious this isn't a crypto friendly audience, but I for one am ok with ERCOT/Miner arrangement.  The miners flexible demand reponse capability is an extremely rare trait that is huge to the grid as it transitions to more and more renewables.

First, no one is "paying" anyone anything (ie no money is exchanging hands). The miners are getting future credit on energy use. The reason miners are in Texas is because we have huge amounts of renewable energy capacity that often goes unused.

Right now ERCOT has basically said to them (as it does to hundreds of other companies that don't happen to be in crypto), please stop using as much power as you can now and we'll discount you on future power.  ERCOT has traded high demand periods now, when it has no excess, for later times when excess power becomes available.

Is it a great deal for miners - absolutely, but it's also a great deal for everyone else. 

Do they actually keep energy prices lower? ehh, long term yes as they certainly incentivize more capacity construction now which is more and more renewable.  Short term - not as clear, but if the prices rise they use less (or none) anyway as they become unprofitable.

In essence we are basically having the miners themselves pay to add battery like capacity on our grid. Yeah it's not "storage" but the net result is very similar.

 

TLDR:  So you'll buy excess power we have available? And you agree to not use any during high demand if we credit you some of your money back? Deal

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90053

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1 minute ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

First, no one is "paying" anyone anything (ie no money is exchanging hands). The miners are getting future credit on energy use. The reason miners are in Texas is because we have huge amounts of renewable energy capacity that often goes unused.

Their biggest expense is energy, and getting future credit on energy use for not producing during peak demand is basically putting money in their pockets for turning off their operations.

1 minute ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

In essence we are basically having the miners themselves pay to add battery like capacity on our grid. Yeah it's not "storage" but the net result is very similar.

They only moved their operations here and entered the agreement because it makes them more money - let's not kid ourselves and act like they are our saviors, because there aren't many industries outside of farming where you can make more money not producing than producing.

If our grid was competently run, we wouldn't be talking about them, and we wouldn't be looking at the dashboard.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90053

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:
  • Available capacity: 80,980 MW
  • Demand forecast: 79,850
  • Committed capacity: 79,451

New estimate for 8pm

  • Available capacity: 80,697 MW
  • Demand forecast: 79,307
  • Committed capacity: 79,257

it improves shortly after at 8:10

  • Available capacity: 81,910 MW
  • Demand forecast: 79,506
  • Committed capacity: 78,921

and at 8:20

  • Available capacity: 81,323 MW
  • Demand forecast: 79,754
  • Committed capacity: 78,534
Edited by atomheartbevo
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90053

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

New estimate for 8pm

  • Available capacity: 80,697 MW
  • Demand forecast: 79,307
  • Committed capacity: 79,257

it improves shortly after at 8:10

  • Available capacity: 81,910 MW
  • Demand forecast: 79,506
  • Committed capacity: 78,921

and at 8:20

  • Available capacity: 81,323 MW
  • Demand forecast: 79,754
  • Committed capacity: 78,534

I fucked all of that up, swapped demand for committed, my bad.  Still tight.

8pm

  • Available capacity: 81,166 MW
  • Committed capacity: 79,726
  • Demand forecast: 79,613

8:10

  • Available capacity: 81,445 MW
  • Committed capacity: 79,940
  • Demand forecast: 79,134

8:20

  • Available capacity: 81,724 MW
  • Committed capacity: 80,155
  • Demand forecast: 78,654
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Captainant

Captainant 27972

Posted
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, HouTex said:

So who is without power?  I keep hearing about the doomsday forecasts and the angst in this thread, but I haven’t seen/heard about power outages.  

You sound like @MNLonghornFUKM in the twitter thread about 6 or 8 months ago lol. Just because something isn't actively failing doesn't mean that it's being ran with unacceptably razor thin margins and in serious danger of falling apart under typical load. 

If power goes out, people fucking die. That's not something to just run until it breaks. That's some irresponsible "someone else will fix it for me lol" thinking. 

 

We should be giving those credits and state subsidy to battery and energy storage technologies to fund their development. Not to private equity cryptofuckbros that imported a bunch of ASICs from China. Those fuckers make more money from turning their rigs off than they do for mining for fucks sake. 

Stop being a useful idiot. Use your whole brain and think. 

Edited by Captainant
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HouTex

HouTex 1901

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You sound like @MNLonghornFUKM in the twitter thread about 6 or 8 months ago lol. Just because something isn't actively failing doesn't mean that it's being ran with unacceptably razor thin margins and in serious danger of falling apart under typical load. 

If power goes out, people fucking die. That's not something to just run until it breaks. That's some irresponsible "someone else will fix it for me lol" thinking. 

 

We should be giving those credits and state subsidy to battery and energy storage technologies to fund their development. Not to private equity cryptofuckbros that imported a bunch of ASICs from China. Those fuckers make more money from turning their rigs off than they do for mining for fucks sake. 

Stop being a useful idiot. Use your whole brain and think. 

Lol.  No wonder I had you on ignore.  

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45763

Posted
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29 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Things got screwy last night because they took too long to send out the conservation alert. 

Yeah, those 200k sq Ft commercial buildings and their ACs were just waiting for that alert on pins and needles. And HEBs across centex. I’m sure they closed their doors and turned down their open air coolers as soon as one of their checkers got a text alert. 

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Trey3216

Trey3216 15380

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3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Yeah, those 200k sq Ft commercial buildings and their ACs were just waiting for that alert on pins and needles. And HEBs across centex. I’m sure they closed their doors and turned down their open air coolers as soon as one of their checkers got a text alert. 

Yeah, if you want to go buy room temp chicken, then have at it big man.   
 

 

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Captainant

Captainant 27972

Posted
Posted
Just now, GreenspointTexas said:

Is there any way we can make money off of crashing the grid?

 

 

lets Gamestop stock this motherfucker and get rich off of the power crash

If you don't want Texas to do an Enron on itself in the name of profitability, you're a damn pinko commie! [/incredulity]

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23498

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Yeah, those 200k sq Ft commercial buildings and their ACs were just waiting for that alert on pins and needles. And HEBs across centex. I’m sure they closed their doors and turned down their open air coolers as soon as one of their checkers got a text alert. 

Heat's getting to everyone. But yeah, maybe we don't turn off our primary food distribution network. Would be better off just shutting down all the non-essential government offices to reduce the energy requirements.  

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90053

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

Yeah, if you want to go buy room temp chicken, then have at it big man.   

Wait, you all are not killing chickens and serving them up fresh?

Jeff Goldblum What GIF by The Late Late Show with James Corden

Don't you have really fucking annoying neighbors with chickens? And every time you're in the mood for chicken, you mention to said neighbor the next day "hey, I don't want to scare you, but I saw some kind of large snake hanging around our yards last night, you might want to keep an eye on your chicken coop" with a predictable "holy shit I think it took one of my chickens last night."  Or leave some bloodied feathers and some bits and pieces, and the next day ask the neighbor for recommendations on keeping raccoons out of the garbage.

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swraith

swraith 347

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

It's pretty obvious this isn't a crypto friendly audience, but I for one am ok with ERCOT/Miner arrangement.  The miners flexible demand reponse capability is an extremely rare trait that is huge to the grid as it transitions to more and more renewables.

First, no one is "paying" anyone anything (ie no money is exchanging hands). The miners are getting future credit on energy use. The reason miners are in Texas is because we have huge amounts of renewable energy capacity that often goes unused.

Right now ERCOT has basically said to them (as it does to hundreds of other companies that don't happen to be in crypto), please stop using as much power as you can now and we'll discount you on future power.  ERCOT has traded high demand periods now, when it has no excess, for later times when excess power becomes available.

Is it a great deal for miners - absolutely, but it's also a great deal for everyone else. 

Do they actually keep energy prices lower? ehh, long term yes as they certainly incentivize more capacity construction now which is more and more renewable.  Short term - not as clear, but if the prices rise they use less (or none) anyway as they become unprofitable.

In essence we are basically having the miners themselves pay to add battery like capacity on our grid. Yeah it's not "storage" but the net result is very similar.

 

TLDR:  So you'll buy excess power we have available? And you agree to not use any during high demand if we credit you some of your money back? Deal

Please provide a direct link to how this "future credit" works because the ERCOT settlement protocols say you are 100% wrong.

For specific refence, look at Section 9: Settlement and Billing on this page Current Protocols - Nodal (ercot.com) 

 

If your post was an attempt to create some kind of metaphor, so be it, but acknowledge that.  Because it is factually not accurate.

ERCOT has a real time settlement system.  The bitminer here contracted an amount of supply for their load.  The miner then reduced their load in real time.  The ERCOT real time settlement processes look at this imbalance.  The imbalance results in the miner have more supply than load.  ERCOT then directly pays the miner for this excess energy.  It is settled at the interval level.  This payment happens on the standard load settlement cycle.  Technically the money is going to go to the QSE hosting the miner.  However, the miner is the only "customer" in the QSE, so they are going to get all the money.  Money is changing hands.  The miner can effectively take this money and gamble it in Vegas, have a crazy party in Dubai, they could reinvest in their business, or divest it to owner's of the private company.  It is a pure windfall for the miner.  The above process is the settlement for the $24.2 million ERCOT is paying Riot for energy sold back.  

 

The $7.4 million in demand response credits is a different discussion but it only represents 23% of the $31.7 million reference in this clickbait news story.  

All of the above is neither good nor bad. It just is how a very complex set of rules have evolved with the Zonal and now Nodal markets in ERCOT.  The miner hit the jackpot.  Oh and the miner still has to pay its energy supplier for the supply it contracted for. So, subtract that expense from this new "revenue".

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MonkeyDoughnut

MonkeyDoughnut 10441

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, swraith said:

Please provide a direct link to how this "future credit" works because the ERCOT settlement protocols say you are 100% wrong.

For specific refence, look at Section 9: Settlement and Billing on this page Current Protocols - Nodal (ercot.com) 

 

If your post was an attempt to create some kind of metaphor, so be it, but acknowledge that.  Because it is factually not accurate.

ERCOT has a real time settlement system.  The bitminer here contracted an amount of supply for their load.  The miner then reduced their load in real time.  The ERCOT real time settlement processes look at this imbalance.  The imbalance results in the miner have more supply than load.  ERCOT then directly pays the miner for this excess energy.  It is settled at the interval level.  This payment happens on the standard load settlement cycle.  Technically the money is going to go to the QSE hosting the miner.  However, the miner is the only "customer" in the QSE, so they are going to get all the money.  Money is changing hands.  The miner can effectively take this money and gamble it in Vegas, have a crazy party in Dubai, they could reinvest in their business, or divest it to owner's of the private company.  It is a pure windfall for the miner.  The above process is the settlement for the $24.2 million ERCOT is paying Riot for energy sold back.  

 

The $7.4 million in demand response credits is a different discussion but it only represents 23% of the $31.7 million reference in this clickbait news story.  

All of the above is neither good nor bad. It just is how a very complex set of rules have evolved with the Zonal and now Nodal markets in ERCOT.  The miner hit the jackpot.  Oh and the miner still has to pay its energy supplier for the supply it contracted for. So, subtract that expense from this new "revenue".

https://www.riotplatforms.com/investors/sec-filings/annual-reports

Using Riot, it's in their 10k filings catorgorized as "Future Power Credits". 

Riot isn't a QSE, they are a large customer. 

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Captainant

Captainant 27972

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

https://www.riotplatforms.com/investors/sec-filings/annual-reports

Using Riot, it's in their 10k filings catorgorized as "Future Power Credits". 

Riot isn't a QSE, they are a large customer. 

Bruh. You could at least link to the document you want us to read. There's a bunch of .PDFs under that link. That are all flavors of 10-K filings. 

No shit they're a customer - a QSE would be a utility provider or someone associated with critical public infrastructure. Not a fucking imported crypto farm. But why is ERCOT picking winners and losers to give free energy to an entity that's throwing away 99.999999% of the work being done with that energy? 

The entire reason for this setup is so that power companies can artificially shrink their supply (through granting future credits) so they can raise prices for regular ratepayers. It's to keep profits up. At the expense of the residents of Texas and anyone under ERCOTs domain. 

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