ERCOT Urging For Energy Conservation

[Brisketexan 105069]

Just now, Liquor and Poker said:

It means the gods are angry and we must atone. Crisis planning makes sense to me

We should sacrifice a virgin.

There are probably a couple.....hundred Surly posters who would fit that bill.

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

PM Derka

[Steel Shank 9421]

11 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

It means the gods are angry and we must atone. Crisis planning makes sense to me

I plan on panicking and randomly laying pipe.

[YGIFS 19449]

23 minutes ago, Steel Shank said:

I plan on panicking and randomly laying pipe.

I'm picturing you like the blonde chick in "Airplane II."

"The sun is blacking itself out midday.  I don't think we're going to live through this.  And I've never really been with a man before..." 

[davidg 4036]

On 10/6/2023 at 12:44 PM, Samson's Wig said:

It seems to me we need some old school ecoterrorist types to apply their skills to taking out bitcoin mining operations.   Fuck those fucking fucks.  I don't see how this is any different than a Mafia protection racket.

 

Feel free to show up and wave a sign or throw a molotov or two.

Supposedly some Greenpeace types are supposed to show up so you never know.

 

 

 

[MAUFRAIS 6619]

Eclipses have long elicited fear and panic in the ignorant and superstitious.
But, yeah, what Brisket said.

The cosmic ballet goes on.

[deft 6839]

I would be terribly upset if someone burned down Corsicana, and by that, I mean not at all

[Captainant 27637]

Huh so most of these large bitcoin farms in Texas that we're paying money to NOT consume electricity are just lift and shifted chinese farms according to some excellent reporting from NYT (gift link). According to ERCOT (cited in the linked article) these farms induce more instability in the demand curve, which makes load prediction more difficult and expensive.

Quote

 

The influx of mining in Texas has already begun to affect the state grid, one of the most vulnerable in the country because it is unconnected to others outside the state.

The grid’s operator, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, recently reported that Bitcoin mines’ energy consumption and lack of transparency had resulted in forecasting errors. The mines can “magnify the severity of grid events,” impacting reliability, the company said.

One proposal to reduce this risk is to regulate how fast the mines can start or stop using energy. Unlike power generators and transmission companies, Bitcoin mines are almost wholly unregulated and operate in a “gray area,” according to Howard Gugel, a vice president at NERC, the body tasked with protecting the U.S. grid.

Chinese cryptocurrency mines have quickly entrenched themselves in Texas and are learning to adapt to its politics.

One company, Poolin, set up by a Bitmain veteran, runs a pair of mines in West Texas that together can draw on as much as 600 megawatts of energy, enough to power nearly half a million U.S. homes. The company’s founder, Kevin Pan, is a Chinese citizen who has celebrated the warm embrace he and his company have received in Texas.

 

Oh and my favorite thing? They get paid out of those lovely rate adjustment fees we've all been getting in our monthly power bills. I REALLY don't understand this strange compulsion from our state leaders to funnel taxpayer money into crypto firms. It's doing nothing but harm to our already withered state power grid

Edited October 14, 2023 by Captainant

[Brisketexan 105069]

Huh so most of these large bitcoin farms in Texas that we're paying money to NOT consume electricity are just lift and shifted chinese farms according to some excellent reporting from NYT (gift link). According to ERCOT (cited in the linked article) these farms induce more instability in the demand curve, which makes load prediction more difficult and expensive.
 
Oh and my favorite thing? They get paid out of those lovely rate adjustment fees we've all been getting in our monthly power bills. I REALLY don't understand this strange compulsion from our state leaders to funnel taxpayer money into crypto firms. It's doing nothing but harm to our already withered state power grid

Huh. It’s like you’ve never heard of campaign/PAC contributions.
The well-being of the people of texas is for sale. You’d be surprised for how cheap, per capita.

[Chad Fuck 17659]

Huh. It’s like you’ve never heard of campaign/PAC contributions.
The well-being of the people of texas is for sale. You’d be surprised for how cheap, per capita.

Man, “your favorite republicans are funneling money to comnist Chinese bitcoin farms to pay them not to use electricity” is a little long for a campaign slogan. But it could work for tv ads.

[Hawndoh 2386]

6 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

Man, “your favorite republicans are funneling money to comnist Chinese bitcoin farms to pay them not to use electricity” is a little long for a campaign slogan. But it could work for tv ads.

Voters in this state are too stupid to know what Bitcoin mining even is.

[Redneck Mutha 7954]

2 hours ago, Hawndoh said:

Voters in this state are too stupid to know what Bitcoin mining even is.

I've heard that bitcoin miners are rich.  And if rich people move here, then that means I could get rich, too!   Whoop!

[atomheartbevo 89628]

5 minutes ago, Redneck Mutha said:

I've heard that bitcoin miners are rich.  And if rich people move here, then that means I could get rich, too!   Whoop!

"I've got this here Minecraft game that my kids talk about, and I loaded it onto my Packard Hell (get it, Packard Bell, but Hell), so do I just start digging into something?"

"Yes, just find an open area, and start digging and see what you come up with.  You might have to mine for a lot of hours though."

"But I can sell those bitcoins, right?"

"Yep, you can sell whatever you get."

 

[YGIFS 19449]

Ah yes, the prosperity gospel goes digital.

You wanna virtually guarantee that a crypto currency booms in value and stays there, backed by a robust global portfolio of prime real estate?  Get a few large Christian denominations to accept them as donations.  Enough of this NFT speculation on pro soccer, rappers, and half-tard politicians.  Buildings, Gold, and Artwork.  That's how you boost a currency.  We already donate money in the pew via a QR code, the transition was so subtle and seemless-most people barely noticed.  Crypto is next.  

Incorruptible Ledgers for Corruptible Leaders.  

[Surly Bevo 24908]

9 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

Man, “your favorite republicans are funneling money to comnist Chinese bitcoin farms to pay them not to use electricity” is a little long for a campaign slogan. But it could work for tv ads.

"Rainbow Crypto"!

[Kringelbert Fishtybuns 943]

So…who had 10/20/23 as the latest hot weather EEA event for the year?  Missed that one on the bingo card.

ERCOT warning of concerns Friday once Solar comes offline.

[YGIFS 19449]

Why is solar coming offline?  If there’s to be a supernova, HVAC is probably not my top concern.  Ron Howard’s little brother did an episode on all this “the boy who could see earthquakes”

[Bozo_Casanova 26437]

Meanwhile, Camp Mabry's concrete problem claims another victim

 

[Brisketexan 105069]

9 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Meanwhile, Camp Mabry's concrete problem claims another victim

 

DAMN YOU CAMP MABRY CONCRETE!  DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!

[Neonmoon 38129]

Anywhere I could get a Camp Mabry Cement Mason t-shirt?

[Post Oak 20208]

Meanwhile in Vermont, Green Mountain is rolling out a plan to give all its residents a backup battery, bury power lines where they can and strengthen overhead lines to make them more durable.  

Very innovative.  

Vermont Utility Plans to End Outages by Giving Customers Batteries

Green Mountain Power is asking state regulators to let it buy batteries it will install at customers’ homes, saying doing so will be cheaper than putting up more power lines.

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

Vermont Utility Plans to End Outages by Giving Customers Batteries

Green Mountain Power is asking state regulators to let it buy batteries it will install at customers’ homes, saying doing so will be cheaper than putting up more power lines.

• Share full article

 

 

A Tesla battery in a basement in Williston, Vt. Green Mountain Power proposed buying and installing batteries like it for customers.Credit...Caleb Kenna for The New York Times

 

 

By Ivan Penn

Oct. 9, 2023

 

Many electric utilities are putting up lots of new power lines as they rely more on renewable energy and try to make grids more resilient in bad weather. But a Vermont utility is proposing a very different approach: It wants to install batteries at most homes to make sure its customers never go without electricity.

The company, Green Mountain Power, proposed buying batteries, burying power lines and strengthening overhead cables in a filing with state regulators on Monday. It said its plan would be cheaper than building a lot of new lines and power plants.

The plan is a big departure from how U.S. utilities normally do business. Most of them make money by building and operating power lines that deliver electricity from natural gas power plants or wind and solar farms to homes and businesses. Green Mountain — a relatively small utility serving 270,000 homes and businesses — would still use that infrastructure but build less of it by investing in television-size batteries that homeowners usually buy on their own.

“Call us the un-utility,” Mari McClure, Green Mountain’s chief executive, said in an interview before the company’s filing. “We’re completely flipping the model, decentralizing it.”

 

 

Like many places, Vermont has been hit hard this year by extreme weather linked to climate change. Half a dozen severe storms, including major floods in July, have caused power outages and damaged homes and other buildings.

Those calamities and concerns about the rising cost of electricity helped shape Green Mountain’s proposal, Ms. McClure said. As the company ran the numbers, it realized that paying recovery costs and building more power lines to improve its system would cost a lot more and take a lot longer than equipping homes with batteries.

 

 

Image

 

“We’re completely flipping the model, decentralizing it,” said Mari McClure, who runs Green Mountain Power.Credit...Oliver Parini for The New York Times

 

 

 

Image

 

A homeowner who has a Tesla battery holding a phone app related to home energy use.Credit...Caleb Kenna for The New York Times

 

 

Green Mountain’s plan builds on a program it has run since 2015 to lease Tesla home batteries to customers. Its filing asks the Vermont Public Utility Commission to authorize it to initially spend $280 million to strengthen its grid and buy batteries, which will come from various manufacturers.

 

 

The company expects to invest an estimated $1.5 billion over the next seven years — money that it would recoup through electricity rates. The utility said the investment was justified by the growing sum it had to spend on storm recovery and to trim and remove trees around its power lines.

 

The utility said it would continue offering battery leases to customers who want them sooner. It will take until 2030 for the company to install batteries at most homes under its new plan if regulators approve it. Green Mountain says its goal to do away with power outages will be realized by that year, meaning customers would always have enough electricity to use lights, refrigerators and other essentials.

 

“We don’t want the power to be off for our customers ever,” Ms. McClure said. “People’s lives are on the line. That is ultimately at the heart of why we’re doing what we’re trying to do.”

Green Mountain would control the batteries, allowing it to program them to soak up energy when wind turbines and solar panels were producing a lot of it. Then, when demand peaked on a hot summer day, say, the batteries could release electricity.

Under the proposal, the company would initially focus on delivering batteries to its most vulnerable customers, putting some power lines underground and installing stronger cables to prevent falling trees from causing outages.

 

 

Hurricanes, winter storms and wildfires have highlighted the growing vulnerability of electric grids in recent years. To many people they have also reinforced the importance of quickly shifting away from fossil fuels, the primary cause of climate change.

Utilities are spending tens of billions of dollars on strengthening grids and switching to cleaner forms of energy, often with the help of federal and state incentives.

 

 

Image

 

Green Mountain would still rely on power lines in its plan but would build fewer of them and bury some.Credit...Caleb Kenna for The New York Times

 

 

 

Image

 

A Green Mountain employee, Logan Smith, inside a control room. The utility would program the batteries that it installed at homes to adjust to system demand.Credit...Oliver Parini for The New York Times

 

 

But critics of the industry say utilities are not being particularly innovative in investing in their systems. Utilities are spending a lot on new long-distance power lines that can take years or even decades to build because of environmental reviews and local opposition.

 

 

A May report by the Brattle Group, a research firm based in Boston, concluded that utilities could save up to $35 billion a year if they invested in smaller-scale energy projects like home batteries and rooftop solar panels that can be built more easily and quickly.

Green Mountain’s proposal seems to recognize that reality, said Leah Stokes, an associate professor of environmental politics at the University of California, Santa Barbara. “It really is the model, especially if you’re worried about power outages,” she said. “It really could become the example for the rest of the country.”

Ms. McClure said the high cost of large-scale power projects threatened to raise electricity rates so much that many customers might struggle to pay for energy.

Electricity customers in New England pay about $270 a month, on average, for a home that uses 1,000 kilowatt-hours of electricity, compared with the national average of about $160, according to the Energy Information Administration. That’s the third-highest rate in the country, behind Hawaii and California. Vermont’s rates are the lowest in New England but still about 29 percent above the national average.

Electricity rates nationwide increased about 25 percent in the last five years and are expected to continue to rise sharply as utilities seek to strengthen the grid and build new renewable energy projects.

 

 

Emily Fisher, executive vice president for clean energy and general counsel at the Edison Electric Institute, a utility trade organization, said Green Mountain’s proposal aligns with discussions throughout the industry about ways to respond to climate change and the results of extreme weather.

“I think it’s innovative,” Ms. Fisher said. “I don’t see it as a change in the business model but a way to harness the business model. You’re going to have to show that it has systemwide benefit.”

Power outages cost utilities in the United States about $150 billion a year, according to analysts at Sprott, an investment firm. And modernizing U.S. electric grids could cost “well into the trillions of dollars,” according to Sprott’s estimates.

In addition to the roughly $20 million to $25 million that Green Mountain spends each year on managing trees and other vegetation around its power lines, the utility said, it spent about $55 million on storm recovery this year. It spent an average of less than $10 million a year after storms between 2015 and 2022.

Those kinds of storm recovery costs can increase rates by as much as 7 percent over time because the utility is allowed to recoup that spending from ratepayers.

“If you are leading a utility anywhere in the country you have to get on a path to stop the madness, relative to rates,” Ms. McClure said

 

[deft 6839]

Well that’s fucking stupid. How are vt lobbyists supposed to get rich that way?

[atomheartbevo 89628]

4 hours ago, Post Oak said:

Meanwhile in Vermont, Green Mountain is rolling out a plan to give all its residents a backup battery, bury power lines where they can and strengthen overhead lines to make them more durable.  

Very innovative.  

Is Vermont lobbying bitcoin operators to move into the state and then paying them not to mine bitcoins?

No?  But they are "innovative" ???

[crash_davis 23101]

Vermont is what happens when a state's elected officials aren't whores to O&G companies.

[Captainant 27637]

12 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Vermont is what happens when a state's elected officials aren't whores to O&G companies.

Well and our state leadership is so horny to appear business friendly that it leaves them vulnerable to getting scammed by chinese buttcoin companies. Because paying for residential solar panels and batteries would be GREEN SOCIALISM!!!

Edited October 18, 2023 by Captainant

[crash_davis 23101]

6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Well and our state leadership is so horny to appear business friendly that it leaves them vulnerable to getting scammed by chinese buttcoin companies. Because paying for residential solar panels and batteries would be GREEN SOCIALISM!!!

Our state leadership doesn't "do" anything for it's constituents unless there's a company or a group of companies which can make assloads of money from it and there are sizable donations to those elected officials from those companies. 

[Brisketexan 105069]

6 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Our state leadership doesn't "do" anything for it's constituents unless there's a company or a group of companies which can make assloads of money from it and there are sizable donations to those elected officials from those companies. 

Any time any of y'all are wondering whether the truth is more complicated....stop wondering, and re-read the post above.

[Post Oak 20208]

3 hours ago, Captainant said:

Well and our state leadership is so horny to appear business friendly that it leaves them vulnerable to getting scammed by chinese buttcoin companies. Because paying for residential solar panels and batteries would be GREEN SOCIALISM!!!

I doubt they were "scammed" by Bitcoin.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Post Oak said:

I doubt they were "scammed" by Bitcoin.

Everybody is scammed by Bitcoin.

Also, kudos to the Vermonters' resistance to the maple syrup lobby.

Edited October 19, 2023 by slorch

[atomheartbevo 89628]

Smooth move ex-lax, not like there's an election next year.

[Biff Tannen 45665]

Um, maybe tell the bitcoin miners to fuck themselves?

[Post Oak 20208]

40 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

ERCOT cancels program to boost power reserves ahead of potentially precarious winter

ERCOT has sought mothballed and decommissioned power plants to fire up for the winter, but none were willing to reactivate.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2023/11/17/ercot-cancels-program-to-boost-power-reserves-ahead-of-potentially-precarious-winter/

Who could've seen this coming? 

[deft 6839]

Um, maybe tell the bitcoin miners to fuck themselves?

You mean pay them with taxpayer dollars to go fuck themselves.

[The Dog 44019]

[Deej 76755]

On 10/17/2023 at 4:56 PM, Brisketexan said:

DAMN YOU CAMP MABRY CONCRETE!  DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!

C'mon. They just filled an entire field with solar panels at Mabry. Plus, the fishing is pretty good. 

[Captainant 27637]

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/investigations/defenders/texas-power-grid-blackouts-simulation-ercot-winter/269-01140c85-a9a3-43b1-be71-9f93f40b30b8

ERCOT expects an outage roughly every 3 years. Good thing our bills have been ballooning to pay for resiliency upgrades and not just paying off record profits to the leeches that put us in this position in the first place!

[YGIFS 19449]

Something, something, wind cancer.  Something, something, cloudy skies.  Something, something, holy fucking shit-I was told I have to pay this much for a dependable grid that is about as dependable now as Costa Rica's.  

[Post Oak 20208]

	Forwarded this email? Subscribe here for more Punishment for Batteries while Gas Skates Free ERCOT wants massive penalties for the most dispatchable and flexible resource, while the PUC tries to protect consumers and the grid DOUG LEWIN DEC 7     READ IN APP   Photo Credit: GE Power Power grid operators need flexible and dispatchable resources, especially when grids are under extreme stress or emergency conditions. The worse the conditions, the greater the need for flexible resources.  There’s no energy resource that’s more flexible or dispatchable than batteries. They can respond in sub-seconds and fulfill a variety of grid needs.  So why on earth is ERCOT trying to slow down battery deployment? Upgrade to paid Last month, the ERCOT Board unanimously approved a protocol revision request (ERCOT’s version of a rule change) requiring batteries to maintain a state of charge at all times. Batteries, of course, are meant to be depleted and recharged; ERCOT’s rule would force them to always have more juice, even in dangerous conditions — times when Texans desperately need it. “ERCOT is trying to make batteries look like and act like coal plants,” Commissioner Glotfelty wrote in a memo that injected some common sense into the discussions of ERCOT’s protocol revision request (known as NPRR 1186).  Commissioner Glotfelty suggested to ERCOT CEO Pablo Vegas back in August that the proposal would increase costs for consumers and create reliability problems; he suggested ERCOT to go “back to the drawing board” on the proposal and to “not pass it at the next Board meeting.” ERCOT ignored that advice — the politically appointed board unanimously passed a protocol revision that somewhat eased the heavy handed regulation of batteries but would still force batteries to hoard electricity when Texans need it.  And so, three months later, the PUC was again left to express its displeasure with a regulation that would discourage investment in a dispatchable power source that Texas desperately needs. Share Time and Punishment ERCOT proposes a $25,000 fine for every five minutes that battery operators drop below the minimum charge. That’s a massive, chilling punishment. For contrast, the most money that any resource can make in the state’s energy market is $5,000 per megawatt hour — this fine would be orders of magnitude higher.  It also would push the Texas grid into an even more dangerous state.  On September 6, ERCOT declared emergency conditions for the first time since Winter Storm Uri. Batteries “helped save the day,” surging to 2,181 megawatts of output when the grid was only a few hundred megawatts from outages.  According to ERCOT, after the event was over, all the batteries on the grid collectively had 15% state of charge. They delivered during the time they were needed the most (see graphics below).  ERCOT’s slide in its September 6 report (page 17) showed a large drop in frequency with 7:19 - 7:25 as the most critical moments… Batteries surged at the exact time they were needed. Should they be punished for delivering power at the most critical moment? ERCOT apparently thinks so. Do we want battery storage operators holding power back while the grid teeters? Again, apparently ERCOT does.  Thankfully, the PUC does not.  Upgrade to paid The Way Forward ERCOT told the Commission they need this NPRR to get visibility into the state of charge for batteries on the grid. OK, sure — no one seems to disagree with their need for visibility.  Glotfelty rightly recommended deleting the penalty provisions of NPRR 1186; ERCOT could create some visibility into the resource without curtailing the investment Texas needs. That’s a reasonable compromise. Gas plants, after all, aren’t penalized if they don’t have gas above the replacement cost of power (that is, beyond the risk borne by all market participants); by extension, batteries shouldn’t be penalized for expending their charge when needed.  “Since ERCOT has not yet adopted any protocols regarding the real-time state of fuel availability for coal or gas plants,” Commissioner Glotfelty wrote in his memo, “it would be discriminatory to adopt burdensome operational requirements on storage devices when no such requirements are placed upon thermal plants.” Indeed. Refer a friend Discriminatory Rulemaking In fact, as long as we’re on the visibility train, let’s get ERCOT some insight into the availability of all resources. That means batteries and gas. After all, while batteries prevented blackouts on Sept. 6, a lack of gas was one of the largest causes of outages during Winter Storm Uri. All you’d need is something like a “gas desk” to simply monitor fuel availability in gas markets.  Who could be opposed to that? In two closed-door meetings devoted to fixing the grid after Uri, Commissioner Christi Craddick shouted at participants who broached the idea of additional rules for intrastate pipelines, according to four people present. In a particularly heated moment, Craddick appeared especially angry with Nim Kidd, chief of the Texas Division of Emergency Management and the chair of an advisory committee tasked with looking for post-Uri fixes, when he raised the gas desk idea, the people said. Soon afterward, Kidd received a public grilling — from Craddick’s father, who happens to be Texas’s longest serving state lawmaker … During a Sept. 13, 2022, legislative hearing, Representative Tom Craddick, a Midland Republican, expressed frustration with Kidd’s leadership and questioned his agency’s funding. He repeatedly asked whether Kidd personally supported creating a gas desk. … “My constituents are very heavily involved, and they are not for it,” Craddick responded. Craddick’s “constituents” made a lot of money selling gas during Uri. They’d rather not have that monitored, as this excellent Bloomberg article explains in detail. The double standard is shocking. Penalties need to be standard and uniform across resources. And everyone should give ERCOT insight into resource availability. The agency can’t do its job without that transparency.  Upgrade to paid What’s Next ERCOT should not be in the business of discriminating against any resource, but certainly not one that’s so flexible, dispatchable, and essential in grid emergencies. As Commissioner Cobos put it in last week’s PUC meeting: “I feel like we’re setting up hurdles and we should… avoid sending negative investment signals for resources that we need right now.” It’s time for ERCOT to move on from NPRR 1186 (and the successor NPRR 1209 they’re now pushing). We need energy storage to help Texans keep cool on the hottest summer days and stay warm in the dead of winter. ERCOT’s bizarre attempts to slow down one of the most flexible and dispatchable resources available is counterproductive to the twin goals of reliability and affordability. As weather gets more extreme, flexible resources become even more necessary, and we’re experiencing a lot more extremes lately. It’s time ERCOT get to work removing barriers for batteries, and stop creating them.

[Biff Tannen 45665]

Motherfucker.  We are just so god damn corrupt and dumb.  Fuck all of these people.  They should be the first against the wall in the next freeze outage.

[elguapo 4586]

Sure we might freeze to death in our homes this winter but at least that beta cuck Beto isn't governor!

[Captainant 27637]

5 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Sure we might freeze to death in our homes this winter but at least that beta cuck Beto isn't governor!

hey at least those O&G firms can keep their profits fat and getting fatter!

[Captainant 27637]

It's now a legal fact that our public utilities don't have an obligation to provide electricity during a future storm. Consumers have zero recourse for when power generating firms decide to negligently ignore maintenance and seasonal preparation. 

https://www.kut.org/energy-environment/2023-12-15/texas-power-plants-have-no-responsibility-to-provide-electricity-in-emergencies-judges-rule

This week, Chief Justice Terry Adams issued the unanimous opinion of that panel that “Texas does not currently recognize a legal duty owed by wholesale power generators to retail customers to provide continuous electricity to the electric grid, and ultimately to the retail customers.”

The opinion states that big power generators “are now statutorily precluded by the legislature from having any direct relationship with retail customers of electricity.”

...

Now, this recent opinion leaves the question of who, if anyone, may be taken to court over deaths and losses incurred in the blackout.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Captainant

[Brisketexan 105069]

It's now a legal fact that our public utilities don't have an obligation to provide electricity during a future storm. Consumers have zero recourse for when power generating firms decide to negligently ignore maintenance and seasonal preparation. 
https://www.kut.org/energy-environment/2023-12-15/texas-power-plants-have-no-responsibility-to-provide-electricity-in-emergencies-judges-rule

This week, Chief Justice Terry Adams issued the unanimous opinion of that panel that “Texas does not currently recognize a legal duty owed by wholesale power generators to retail customers to provide continuous electricity to the electric grid, and ultimately to the retail customers.”

The opinion states that big power generators “are now statutorily precluded by the legislature from having any direct relationship with retail customers of electricity.”

...

Now, this recent opinion leaves the question of who, if anyone, may be taken to court over deaths and losses incurred in the blackout.

The decision was legally correct. Understandably, lots of people don’t like the outcome, but the court’s holding was correct, and fundamentally said “if you don’t like this legal and market design, which is the foundation for any legal duty, talk to the legislature.”
The system worked as designed. It didn’t fail. It succeeded. That’s what the lege gave us, and for decades, we celebrated as brilliance etc. Want to change it? Talk to the lege.

[YGIFS 19449]

Agreed.  It's just curious, from a liability standpoint, that they are so adamantly emphasizing ERCOT's lack of any connection to any possible end-user---commercial, resident, or otherwise as if a preemptive Harry Dunne "YOU CAN'T TRIPLE STAMP A DOUBLE STAMP, YOU CAN'T TRIPLE STAMP A DOUBLE STAMP!"  Like, yeah we get it---ERCOT sucks, people died and will continue to die in the most energy rich state ever conceived on our planet.  It's not political, it's just human decency.  But we're beyond that now, it would seem.  I doubt anyone had any illusions about being made whole for losses due to ERCOT's idiocy.  If they did, this latest ruling should that illusion out to pasture.  

The next time you're traveling for business and want to brag about how you're from Texas, just know that most educated people outside our borders laugh at our ineptitude.  Blessed with natural gas, WTI oil, and lots and lots of sunshine.  And we just help but lose hundreds and sometimes of thousands of people every single year to the elements because we manage our energy system like A&M manages their coaching staffs.  

[Brisketexan 105069]

Agreed.  It's just curious, from a liability standpoint, that they are so adamantly emphasizing ERCOT's lack of any connection to any possible end-user---commercial, resident, or otherwise as if a preemptive Harry Dunne "YOU CAN'T TRIPLE STAMP A DOUBLE STAMP, YOU CAN'T TRIPLE STAMP A DOUBLE STAMP!"  Like, yeah we get it---ERCOT sucks, people died and will continue to die in the most energy rich state ever conceived on our planet.  It's not political, it's just human decency.  But we're beyond that now, it would seem.  I doubt anyone had any illusions about being made whole for losses due to ERCOT's idiocy.  If they did, this latest ruling should that illusion out to pasture.  
The next time you're traveling for business and want to brag about how you're from Texas, just know that most educated people outside our borders laugh at our ineptitude.  Blessed with natural gas, WTI oil, and lots and lots of sunshine.  And we just help but lose hundreds and sometimes of thousands of people every single year to the elements because we manage our energy system like A&M manages their coaching staffs.  

Remember, it’s due to something much bigger than ERCOT’s idiocy: ERCOT’s impotency. Requiring the sort of things of gas providers etc that could have reduced the scope of the disaster? ERCOT and the PUC simply didn’t have the power to do those things. And after the lege reacted in 2021? The same remains largely true.
Our system is designed to funnel huge amounts of customer dollars into mostly private pockets (note that even you public/municipal utilities now buy the bulk of their power from private generators). It is NOT designed to deliver reliable power. Generating electricity, and selling it to a captive market, is just the mechanism by which those dollars get funneled. Electricity is not the “why” of us having a market, it’s just the “how” of how your dollars get into a select few very rich pockets. And in that respect, the market functions brilliantly.
Oh, and as a side note, IIRC, the gas producers (where the problems were most acute) got out of the case some time ago. Also a legally correct ruling.

[elfenix 34223]

5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Requiring the sort of things of gas providers etc that could have reduced the scope of the disaster? ERCOT and the PUC simply didn’t have the power to do those things. And after the lege reacted in 2021? The same remains largely true.

kelcy warren is laughing.

[Captainant 27637]

7 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Blessed with natural gas, WTI oil, and lots and lots of sunshine.  And we just help but lose hundreds and sometimes of thousands of people every single year to the elements because we manage our energy system like A&M manages their coaching staffs.  

Crazy when I know you're describing Texas, but it's also pretty on the nose for russia 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Captainant

[YGIFS 19449]

I don't think Russia has as must West Texas Intermediate oil as we do, but what's in a name?    

It's beyond fucking insane to me that just the slight suggestion of "Hey, maybe we could take measures this winter to make sure old people and small children don't die when the heat shuts off for days" is immediately pivoted to, "Why are you against reliable hydrocarbons faggot?!?"  

[BrickHorn 18216]

9 hours ago, Captainant said:

It's now a legal fact that our public utilities don't have an obligation to provide electricity during a future storm. Consumers have zero recourse for when power generating firms decide to negligently ignore maintenance and seasonal preparation. 

https://www.kut.org/energy-environment/2023-12-15/texas-power-plants-have-no-responsibility-to-provide-electricity-in-emergencies-judges-rule

This week, Chief Justice Terry Adams issued the unanimous opinion of that panel that “Texas does not currently recognize a legal duty owed by wholesale power generators to retail customers to provide continuous electricity to the electric grid, and ultimately to the retail customers.”

The opinion states that big power generators “are now statutorily precluded by the legislature from having any direct relationship with retail customers of electricity.”

...

Now, this recent opinion leaves the question of who, if anyone, may be taken to court over deaths and losses incurred in the blackout.

What did you expect? In Texas, society is merely a series of economic transactions. We’re not a collective working together to advance the human condition; we’re a network of contracts. If it’s not in the interest of whatever company we’ve outsourced to provide basic necessities to actually provide those necessities, well… everyone can just get fucked. It’s nothing personal. It’s just business. 

[Brisketexan 105069]

What did you expect? In Texas, society is merely a series of economic transactions. We’re not a collective working together to advance the human condition; we’re a network of contracts. If it’s not in the interest of whatever company we’ve outsourced to provide basic necessities to actually provide those necessities, well… everyone can just get fucked. It’s nothing personal. It’s just business. 

Bingo. And realize the next part of that: human beings in Texas are not seen as capex, but as an operating expense/consumable. There will be no investment in humans in Texas. Just use them to extract whatever value they can provide, and leave the empty husk in the ditch when you’re done and moved on to consuming the next one.