ERCOT Urging For Energy Conservation

[Captainant 28425]

21 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

result for google. no idea what kind of station this is so if it's ultra right/left wing, don't tase me bro.

supposedly warmer temps with routine maintenance.

https://newstalk1290.com/supply-and-demand-issues-are-straining-the-texas-power-grid/

That article was sourced from a Dallas ABC affiliate - here's the link. But I did find another interesting link in the article to the ERCOT grid and market conditions dashboard (https://mis.ercot.com/public/dashboards).

FTA: 

The Public Utility Commission has a meeting set for Thursday morning; the first item on the agenda is whether Texas will require winterization standards for energy facilities. 

The board of directors for ERCOT has called a special meeting for Friday morning.

It'll be really fun when our shit get frozen and then pipes go on blast again this winter.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Captainant

[Brisketexan 106727]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

That article was sourced from a Dallas ABC affiliate - here's the link. But I did find another interesting link in the article to the ERCOT grid and market conditions dashboard (https://mis.ercot.com/public/dashboards).

FTA: 

The Public Utility Commission has a meeting set for Thursday morning; the first item on the agenda is whether Texas will require winterization standards for energy facilities. 

The board of directors for ERCOT has called a special meeting for Friday morning.

It'll be really fun when our shit get frozen and then pipes go on blast again this winter.

FYI, it will likely happen again, because without adding a "capacity market" component, you simply can't resolve the issue of insufficient generation capacity.  Winterizing certain assets would help some, but it also takes time.

[crash_davis 23465]

7 minutes ago, Captainant said:

That article was sourced from a Dallas ABC affiliate - here's the link. But I did find another interesting link in the article to the ERCOT grid and market conditions dashboard (https://mis.ercot.com/public/dashboards).

FTA: 

The Public Utility Commission has a meeting set for Thursday morning; the first item on the agenda is whether Texas will require winterization standards for energy facilities. 

The board of directors for ERCOT has called a special meeting for Friday morning.

It'll be really fun when our shit get frozen and then pipes go on blast again this winter.

almost a year later and beginning of fall, our fearless electrical grid leaders still haven't decided if they will make the people/companies who pay millions to the leaders coffers will make those same people do the right thing at the expense of profits.

stop me if you heard this one before....

Edited October 22, 2021 by crash_davis

[Captainant 28425]

Huh actually since looking at it again, looks like PUC actually did set new winterization standards (WFAA Dallas)

 

Quote

 

DALLAS — Power plant operators and transmission companies like Oncor will now be required to implement “winter weather emergency preparedness measures” designed to prevent a repeat of February’s power outages that left millions without electricity for days and cost billions in damage and hundreds of lives.

The four-member Public Utility Commission unanimously adopted the rule Thursday. Companies have until Dec. 1 to comply with the new rule and submit winter weather readiness reports.

“This rulemaking will be a big step to ensuring that the physical resiliency of our grid is vastly improved this winter over last winter,” PUC Chairman Peter Lake said.

The new rule, as the commission staff acknowledges, requires power generators to implement winter weather recommendations that were made by federal regulators after a 2011 winter storm that caused massive power outages in Texas. Last month, the chair of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission blasted Texas for failing to winterize after the 2011 winter storm.

The other requirements approved by the PUC Thursday include:

• Ensuring that “cold weather critical component failures” like those that occurred during this past winter have been fixed.
• Requiring that the leaders of power companies sign a notarized form that fixes have been made.
• Training on winter weather preparations.
• Submitting to ERCOT-conducted inspections, which includes giving ERCOT and commission personnel unfettered access to the facility.
• Conducting monthly testing during the winter weather season from November through March.

Federal regulators have found the biggest contributor of Texas’ power outages in February was the failure to winterize the state’s power plants. But the second biggest cause was fuel supply issues, driven largely by natural gas shortages.

“About 20% of the electricity generation failures that occurred during winter storm Uri were caused by failure of natural gas fuel supply,” Adrian Shelley, director of Public Citizen’s Texas office, said in a letter to the PUC. “In order for electric generators to comply with weatherization requirements, the gas supply chain must also comply.”

The PUC has no authority over natural gas.

The Texas Railroad Commission, an elected body that oversees the natural gas entities, currently allows natural gas operators to fill out a form every six months and opt out of being considered critical infrastructure.

“This exception is simply elective,” Shelley wrote the PUC. “The Railroad Commission has provided no criteria or qualifications for an exception.”

 

Oncor Cities, an organization of cities served by Oncor, had recommended that power generators show that their gas supplies are weatherized. Commission officials said neither PUC nor the power generator have the authority to “compel weatherization compliance.”

 

TL:DR - PUC is requiring power generators to winterize, but has no authority to require gas pipelines to winterize. And it's trivial for gas pipelines to file as "non-critical infrastructure" to avoid winterization requirements. We gon freeze.

[Guest Lobo]

Mid-term forecasts for now until February give us a slightly warmer and drier 'Cold Season', mainly due to a persistent La Nina cycle nearby.  

so between that and the fact our state has decided blow money on a bunch of crazy shit to appease crazy people...we're gonna leave shoring up our electrical grid until 2023 at the earliest.  

I'm just glad when Abbott's old Chief of Staff moved into my neighborhood, he had the circuit zone that the nearby Fire Station expanded to include his street and mine so that we could never be part of rolling blackouts.  It's like he knew. 

We only lost power at the tail end of that February storm because some frozen trees fell over into transformer lines nearby.  Nothing you do about those, but we're protected from ERCOT incompetence because we're considered part of the critical Fire Station.  I guess I should go put in a shift or two.  But very curious timing by my (then) new neighbor.  Obviously nobody saw the severity of that storm, but he did see the severity of the stupidity of ERCOT and that this kinda thing was inevitable.  

Edited October 22, 2021 by Lobo

[crash_davis 23465]

Just now, Captainant said:

Huh actually since looking at it again, looks like PUC actually did set new winterization standards (WFAA Dallas)

 

TL:DR - PUC is requiring power generators to winterize, but has no authority to require gas pipelines to winterize. And it's trivial for gas pipelines to file as "non-critical infrastructure" to avoid winterization requirements. We gon freeze.

this has no teeth. if/when the gas pipelines freeze, which is what happened during the feb shitshow, it doesn't matter how much the downstream plants winterize, the shit is going to collapse again.

[Captainant 28425]

Just now, crash_davis said:

this has no teeth. if/when the gas pipelines freeze, which is what happened during the feb shitshow, it doesn't matter how much the downstream plants winterize, the shit is going to collapse again.

[crash_davis 23465]

at this point i know we all do not expect changes to happen. the lege allowed the electric companies to add a surcharge on your electricity bill to help pay off the loses incurred during the shitstorm. meanwhile asshats like jerry jone's west texas gas company "hit the jackpot" when energy prices went through the roof. so a select few made millions. the electric companies who lost money are fucking over the people of the state to make sure they recover their losses. and the people of this state who got fucked over by the shittastic week are getting fucked over to pay for incompetence and will be fucked over again cause this shit will happen again. the only difference will be a new fee on top of the existing fee to pay off to be losses by the companies. the jerry jones' of the world will again hit another "jackpot". life goes on.

and we keep re-electing the same asshats who make this all possible. this state gets the leadership it deserves.

Edited October 22, 2021 by crash_davis

[Brisketexan 106727]

18 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Huh actually since looking at it again, looks like PUC actually did set new winterization standards (WFAA Dallas)

 

TL:DR - PUC is requiring power generators to winterize, but has no authority to require gas pipelines to winterize. And it's trivial for gas pipelines to file as "non-critical infrastructure" to avoid winterization requirements. We gon freeze.

Just as a follow up, the same legislation that led to this PUC action over assets within their jurisdiction also empowered the Railroad Commission to take similar action with regard to gas wells and gas pipelines.

So, all we need to happen is for the RRC to require the industries it regulates to take action that will cost them money, but won't be directly recoverable because gas pricing is on a commodity price basis.  So, yeah....see how that goes.

[Kringelbert Fishtybuns 945]

We are fine today.

Many units are in planned Fall outages that get approved by ERCOT.  That plus a quick warm up, $5 gas, and a big dead band of wind across the middle of the state led to some scarcity on Wed.  The real time adders never even got off the ground.

 

[Guest Lobo]

Wanted to pass this evite along.  An apolitical leader in the space is speaking at UT next week on energy and power grids.  

https://energy.utexas.edu/events/143

He's kind of a big deal in the space.  Very curious what he has to say about Texas/ERCOT.  Free to join the Zoom.

[atomheartbevo 90582]

 

[Updawg 2378]

 

No surprises in that report

But damn. I only lost water for 4 days last year and haven’t done shit to prepare for this year. It wasn’t too bad since we had electric and pool/snow water for toilets.

But I’m starting to get scared now.

Now I’m worried about losing residential gas. That would be really bad. I know I would have been screwed.

I need to find the quickest escape route from the state on one tank of gas. I don’t think there is one from Austin with our cars unfortunately

[drt 645]

Harbor freight sells 5 gallon gas cans. I’m considering buying 4 just for that reason. 

[Deej 77687]

47 minutes ago, Updawg said:

No surprises in that report

But damn. I only lost water for 4 days last year and haven’t done shit to prepare for this year. It wasn’t too bad since we had electric and pool/snow water for toilets.

But I’m starting to get scared now.

Now I’m worried about losing residential gas. That would be really bad. I know I would have been screwed.

I need to find the quickest escape route from the state on one tank of gas. I don’t think there is one from Austin with our cars unfortunately

I've got a sled and a harness for my husky.

[Updawg 2378]

I've got a sled and a harness for my husky.

My ridgeback hates the cold and is too old. Plus my wife has gotten too fat

[dcbc 14644]

We were fortunate to (1) have just gone to the store with a bit of advance notice that it was gonna get cold (and it was just our store day), (2) we never lost electricity (we rarely do), and (3) only lost water pressure for a slight % and for a day or so.  We just couldn't go anywhere.  But I bought my 16 year old a Subaru Outback with a 3" lift, a set of A/T tires that are good in snow, and has a manual transmission (that last part is just for the unicorn factor).

[El Diablo 4232]

No doubt her girl friends are jealous. 

[South Austin 53159]

10 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

I’m sure Abbott took that report from the federal government and wiped has ass with it.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13713]

8 hours ago, Updawg said:

Now I’m worried about losing residential gas. That would be really bad. I know I would have been screwed.

I see and read about homeowners going more and more down the route of a residential generator for these emergencies. I have to wonder if the system can absorb heavy natural gas usage in these situations. Especially if the infrastructure has any failure points due to power loss. 

[Enchubben 5598]

Governor's response to winter weather emergency. Looks like winterization required to be in place by 12/1, along with several other changes.

 

[Walte464 450]

1 hour ago, Enchubben said:

Governor's response to winter weather emergency. Looks like winterization required to be in place by 12/1, along with several other changes.

 

Fuck you hot wheels

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

3 hours ago, South Austin said:

I’m sure Abbott took that report from the federal government and wiped has ass with it.

Does he even wipe his own ass?  I honestly have idea.  When my grandma was chair bound we had to wipe for her

[Player 4606]

I see and read about homeowners going more and more down the route of a residential generator for these emergencies. I have to wonder if the system can absorb heavy natural gas usage in these situations. Especially if the infrastructure has any failure points due to power loss. 

As a new generac owner, I’m wondering the same thing.

[MissingInAction 25520]

11 hours ago, Updawg said:

My ridgeback hates the cold and is too old. Plus my wife has gotten too fat

If it gets bad, fat makes for a good fuel. You could also tawn tawn her if necessary.

Edit: the wife, not the dog

Edited November 19, 2021 by MissingInAction

[MonkeyDoughnut 10766]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I see and read about homeowners going more and more down the route of a residential generator for these emergencies. I have to wonder if the system can absorb heavy natural gas usage in these situations. Especially if the infrastructure has any failure points due to power loss. 

Yeah, odds of another state wide freeze event like last year are still really, really low but if something happened similar the systems could not keep up, not even close now.  Way too many generators were installed after the last freeze. That's still a good thing under normal situations, but the system would not be able to keep up under big freeze again. Would be similar to when the power would come on in pockets and people would do laundry, turn on ovens, do everything possible to use power while they had it.  Even this past year they were 48 hours away from looking to cut of residential gas in some cities.

[crash_davis 23465]

1 hour ago, Enchubben said:

Governor's response to winter weather emergency. Looks like winterization required to be in place by 12/1, along with several other changes.

 

issue was only partly due to the generators. main issue was the gas supply lines froze. last i checked, winterization requirements did not apply to the supply lines, or they could escape the requirements by declaring themselves non-critical infrastructure. has that all changed? honest question.

[bschoolprof 6340]

54 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Does he even wipe his own ass?  I honestly have idea.  When my grandma was chair bound we had to wipe for her

username and whatnot.  

[Newdoc 3508]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

see and read about homeowners going more and more down the route of a residential generator for these emergencies. I have to wonder if the system can absorb heavy natural gas usage

Dual or triple fuel generators for the win??

[Horns99 172]

Yeah, odds of another state wide freeze event like last year are still really, really low but if something happened similar the systems could not keep up, not even close now.  Way too many generators were installed after the last freeze. That's still a good thing under normal situations, but the system would not be able to keep up under big freeze again. Would be similar to when the power would come on in pockets and people would do laundry, turn on ovens, do everything possible to use power while they had it.  Even this past year they were 48 hours away from looking to cut of residential gas in some cities.

Where are you getting the 48 hours? I know the Atmos system was hurting for supply, but Houston was fine with it’s numerous interconnects & storage facilities located close by. I think you over estimating the # of new generators & how much natural gas they actually burn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[drt 645]

26 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

issue was only partly due to the generators. main issue was the gas supply lines froze. last i checked, winterization requirements did not apply to the supply lines, or they could escape the requirements by declaring themselves non-critical infrastructure. has that all changed? honest question.

Believe this correct. So Abbott’s statement is spin. 

[Homercles 10206]

3 minutes ago, drt said:

So Abbott’s statement is spin. 

[Enchubben 5598]

31 minutes ago, drt said:

Believe this correct. So Abbott’s statement is spin. 

Meh - it's part of the needed solution and a step in the right direction. The gas supply infrastructure perhaps might be something that needs to be resolved through RRC? Not sure. 

[Brisketexan 106727]

Meh - it's part of the needed solution and a step in the right direction. The gas supply infrastructure perhaps might be something that needs to be resolved through RRC? Not sure. 

The legislation did contemplate dealing with gas providers through the RRC.

The legislation has all kinds of exceptions and opt-outs, and very few enforcement teeth. Wanna bet on how well it works?

[crash_davis 23465]

11 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

Meh - it's part of the needed solution and a step in the right direction. The gas supply infrastructure perhaps might be something that needs to be resolved through RRC? Not sure. 

RRC?

[Captainant 28425]

1 minute ago, crash_davis said:

RRC?

Railroad Commission - they're effectively the rail and pipeline oversight agency for TX.

[crash_davis 23465]

Thanks. But as Brisket said above, no one is making the gas suppliers do shit about their lines. don't matter how well you beef up the engine if you can't get gas to the engine.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10766]

54 minutes ago, Horns99 said:

Where are you getting the 48 hours? I know the Atmos system was hurting for supply, but Houston was fine with it’s numerous interconnects & storage facilities located close by. I think you over estimating the # of new generators & how much natural gas they actually burn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yeah, wasn't an issue of not having enough storage, it was a problem getting enough gas out of storage quick enough to keep lines pressurized combined with keeping all the compressor stations running. Multiple storage facilities had periodic power outages that made keeping up with demand tough, especially with power plants looking to get anything and everything they could. There was risk of pressure getting too low so they made plans to possible cut of off areas if needed.  The 48 hour number I heard was 3rd party through one of our gas traders don't really know the validity of it or how accurate the timeline other than plans were in the works.

[C-Man 27712]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

issue was only partly due to the generators. main issue was the gas supply lines froze. last i checked, winterization requirements did not apply to the supply lines, or they could escape the requirements by declaring themselves non-critical infrastructure. has that all changed? honest question.

NBC5 did a series of stories this week on the grid and apparently natural gas plant operators can opt out of winterization by filling out a form and paying $150.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/investigations/texas-grid-could-suffer-outages-in-another-major-winter-storm-federal-regulators/2820175/

Quote

On Wednesday NBC5 Investigates reported Jones is still concerned about the readiness of the state’s natural system. A federal inquiry into the February disaster determined that shortages of natural gas were the second leading cause of outages at power plants.

The Texas Railroad Commission which regulates natural gas is considering a proposal that would allow gas companies to check a box on a one-page form and pay a $150 fee to opt-out of future winterization rules. Jones said he is hopeful the railroad commission will modify that proposal and not give gas companies an, “easy out.”

Railroad Commission officials told NBC 5 investigates the plan is not intended to provide an easy out and that the agency remains focused on ensuring the gas system can supply enough fuel to power plants in a crisis. The agency has also said it is sending inspectors to hundreds of gas facilities to make sure they are ready for the upcoming winter.

NERC regulators underscored concerns about the gas system Thursday, noting that even if power plants are better prepared for this winter, fuel limitations could lead to additional outages in extreme weather.

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by C-Man

[crash_davis 23465]

1 minute ago, C-Man said:

NBC5 did a series of stories this week on the grid and apparently natural gas plant operators can opt out of winterization by filling out a form and paying $150.

LULZ. i cannot wait to move out of this state.

[C-Man 27712]

4 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

LULZ. i cannot wait to move out of this state.

Seriously. Edited to include the web story covering the $150 fee. Apparently, it's not been approved yet but you know, Texas Railroad Commission. The RRC commissioner spent part of their last meeting lambasting the state legislators who were super mean and uncool toward one of their colleagues testifying before them recently.

[gyroprotagonist 2597]

6 hours ago, C-Man said:

Seriously. Edited to include the web story covering the $150 fee. Apparently, it's not been approved yet but you know, Texas Railroad Commission. The RRC commissioner spent part of their last meeting lambasting the state legislators who were super mean and uncool toward one of their colleagues testifying before them recently.

they will amend it to include "Fee may be reduced to $100 and instead be allocated to my re-election campaign as applicable" 

[Updawg 2378]

We will pay them for the inconvenience of having to submit the paperwork

[crash_davis 23465]

1 hour ago, Updawg said:

We will pay them for the inconvenience of having to submit the paperwork

they will just add this "cost" into the fee that Texans will pay for forever. in 10 years, no one is going to remember what the fee is for. it'll just be extra margin just because "Fuck you, eat my losses, bitches!"

[atomheartbevo 90582]

56 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

they will just add this "cost" into the fee that Texans will pay for forever. in 10 years, no one is going to remember what the fee is for. it'll just be extra margin just because "Fuck you, eat my losses, bitches!"

Have we ever seen ERCOT and the Texas Athletic Department in the same room?

[atomheartbevo 90582]

ERCOT has assessed themselves.

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/ercot-releases-seasonal-assessment-for-winter-with-aggressive-plan-for-electric-grid/

Quote

 The Electric Reliability Council of Texas released a seasonal assessment Friday looking at how ready the state’s power grid is for winter. 

ERCOT says it has a “new aggressive approach to managing the electric grid” after February’s winter storm disaster that left millions of Texans without power for days in freezing temperatures. A July update from the Texas Department of State Health Services say 210 people across the state died as a result of the storm. 

Quote

ERCOT expects there will be sufficient generating capacity for typical winter grid conditions, according to the assessment. The forecasted peak demand is 62,001 MW, according to ERCOT, under normal weather conditions.

Quote

The council has also included high-impact scenarios in its new planning approach. 

The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission this week released its final report analyzing what went wrong during the February freeze.

FERC’s analysis of the crisis lays out 28 recommendations to fix Texas’ power grid. Some of those have already been mandated by the Texas legislature, but others fall short of what FERC is recommending.

[Biff Tannen 46079]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

ERCOT expects there will be sufficient generating capacity for typical winter grid conditions, according to the assessment

Uh, so how is this different from last year?  Sounds like they haven’t done fuck all. 

[Horn of Gabriel 1883]

52 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Uh, so how is this different from last year?  Sounds like they haven’t done fuck all. 

There have been some inspections, minor improvements.  Nothing major.  Enough for the lege to say "look we did stuff!" to angry voters but no real change.  Other than the utilities now adding surcharges for costs many of them are not incurring.

[TKthunder2 5058]

On 11/18/2021 at 8:16 PM, Updawg said:

I need to find the quickest escape route from the state on one tank of gas. I don’t think there is one from Austin with our cars unfortunately

You just need to get to East Texas.  They are not on ERCOT’s grid.  Huntsville looks to be the closest to Austin.  About 160 miles/3 hours away, the only downside (well besides being in Huntsville) is you have to drive through College Station.  This map was from 2019, Lubbock has since been added to ERCOT (also note where they put the dot for Shreveport lol).

Edited November 21, 2021 by TKthunder2

[Captainant 28425]

4 hours ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

Other than the utilities now adding surcharges for costs many of them are not incurring.

This is no joke. A year ago in October I used 909KwH, and this year I used 910KwH in October (according to my bill) and yet somehow this year was $50 more than last. Every bill since this spring has been almost exactly $50 more than last year. Fucking ridiculous.