ERCOT Urging For Energy Conservation

[utee94 15752]

Just FYI, Harbor Freight has a 10% off everything sale this weekend, including generators.  I normally don't recommend anything from there, AT ALL, but I have their 3500W "Predator" brand inverter generator, and it's performed very well for me.  It's super quiet, even quieter than my equivalent Honda that I had before, and it also has a lot of features that much more expensive generators have.  It gets really good reviews, even 2-3 years down the road, so the reliability seems to be pretty good.

https://www.harborfreight.com/generators-engines/generators/inverter-generators/3500-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-56720.html

 

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19166]

22 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

I need to get a backup generator but I'll be goddamned if I'm going to bother doing the math to figure out what size I need.

More Watts / BTUs = more better.

[kevwun 15716]

Another rec for the oil heaters.  We have one that we keep in the living room when it's really cold because it's on the north corner of the house.  They put off a fuck ton of heat and don't make any noise.

[atomheartbevo 89514]

If you want to track power grid stuff, like power available vs demand, ERCOT has a site for that.

https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards/systemwidedemand

 

[HiggyBaby 2523]

4 million folks served? What’s that mean? .

[Brisketexan 104803]

3 minutes ago, HiggyBaby said:

4 million folks served? What’s that mean? .

It means that many people have had a McDonald's hamburger.

 

 

OR, it means that Oncor serves 4 million customers in Texas, and it presently has 67 outages affecting 557 of those customers.

 

But I think the hamburger guess is better.

[Surly Bevo 24880]

39 minutes ago, HiggyBaby said:

4 million folks served? What’s that mean? .

South Austin's mom has an app?

[crash_davis 23090]

lulz. the lege and gov simply will allow the energy companies to increase the fee that they charge customers to recover their losses from their incompetence and negligence. every company is made whole at the expense of the customers who get fucked twice. just don't call is socialism. it's corporate socialism, errr modified Texas capitalism.

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/more-than-100-insurance-companies-sue-ercot-power-generators-over-winter-storm-losses/

 

Quote

AUSTIN (KXAN) — More than 100 insurance companies are suing the Texas power grid operator and dozens of power generators, over losses and property damage sustained during the winter storm last February.

The lawsuit, filed in Travis County District Court, said the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) and 37 different power generating entities were “at fault” for the energy failure and power loss that left millions of Texans in the cold and dark for days. It alleges gross negligence when these defendants “failed to plan and prepare for the winter storm event, and the energy failure caused significant property damage to the policyholders of plaintiffs.”

As arctic front moves into Central Texas, how is our power grid faring? 

According to the latest report from the Texas Department of Insurance, insurers indicated they had 500,196 insurance claims. More than 85% of these claims came from residential property owners and homeowners. Commercial properties made up just under 10% of those claims.

This report estimated as of July 31, 2021, insurers were expected to ultimately pay about $10.3 billion in losses from this event.

The lawsuit cites a report by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, which concluded the power generators failed to heed its prior warnings to winterize their equipment and facilities in preparation for winter. These insurance companies demand a jury trial and have asked the court to consider a term called “subrogation.”

Subrogation allows an insurer to recoup costs, even the customer’s deductible, from the at-fault party.

RELATED CONTENT

• 90 Austin ISD schools harmed in winter storms, resulting in $15 million in damage

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• Local business reopens after months of winter storm repairs, some still dealing with insurance nightmares

Rich Johnson with the Insurance Council of Texas said similar lawsuits are playing out in California and Nevada after massive wildfires ripped through those states, destroying homes and businesses.

“Where insurance companies banded together to look for the responsible party, which happened to be the power companies in those areas for lack of maintenance on power cables,” he said. “You want to find the party that’s at fault, and if they’re responsible, they should pay their part.”

Johnson said this lawsuit was not only important for the insurance industry but important for customers, too. He said recouped costs can help keep rates down but also could mean money going directly back to customers to offset their out-of-pocket costs.

According to this graph from the Texas Department of Insurance, about 85% of the claims made after the winter storm were on residential property policies; 10% were on commercial property policies; 3.7% were on personal auto physical damage policies and 0.9% were for all other types of insurance. (Source: TDI report)

He gave an example: “Let’s say you have a $5 or $10,000 deductible on a $30,000 claim. If customers have the opportunity to recoup that five or $10,000, whatever that deductible might be, that’s going to be huge for people who are out there, you know, who need that money in their pocket — that they had to pay out because of making this claim.”

ERCOT says Texas power generating plants are ready for winter weather 

Johnson said it took months for insurers to evaluate each claim, and so far, around 90% of the claims had been closed — 53% were closed with a payment to the policyholder, and 37% were closed without a payment to the policyholder.

He didn’t have any estimate for how long the lawsuit could take to play out in the courts or whether the parties would settle but said each of these kinds of cases is unique.

 

[Guest Lobo]

Shout that Texas Swagger as loud as y'all want...we are the fucking laughing stock of the United States.  

Enough natural gas to last us 100,000 years and we can't keep hundreds from dying from the cold.  And now we can't even sort out the financials.  Fucking clown show.

[Captainant 27524]

All y'all cowboys fans just remember that Jerry fucking Jones made BILLIONS of dollars off of the artificial gas shortage last year that led to several hundred Texans freezing to death

[Captain Ron 12819]

I posted this in the winter weather thread, but seems more on point here. With little winterization work done in the last year, natural gas production dropped during the cold spell last week

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-03/plunging-gas-supplies-show-texas-still-hasn-t-prepared-for-cold?fbclid=IwAR0E0Jzo7x1-ZxGQT1YZJB_HrYOzPuiXoeSv5p0focBGwsJWU6qiBcEYtVU

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/01/05/texas-power-grid-natural-gas-cold/

Quote

A number of natural gas companies reported to the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality that they had to unexpectedly flare off gas last weekend because their equipment froze.

[Surly Bevo 24880]

7 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

I posted this in the winter weather thread, but seems more on point here. With little winterization work done in the last year, natural gas production dropped during the cold spell last week

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-03/plunging-gas-supplies-show-texas-still-hasn-t-prepared-for-cold?fbclid=IwAR0E0Jzo7x1-ZxGQT1YZJB_HrYOzPuiXoeSv5p0focBGwsJWU6qiBcEYtVU

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/01/05/texas-power-grid-natural-gas-cold/

I fail to see the problem for all of us with Taun-Tauns.

[Guest Lobo]

Didn't Luke & Han both survive longer in the elements than Luke's Taun-Taun did?  

So ERCOT is Luke's Taun-Taun, we're Luke looking to be saved from the elements, so who is Han?  

[crash_davis 23090]

36 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

I posted this in the winter weather thread, but seems more on point here. With little winterization work done in the last year, natural gas production dropped during the cold spell last week

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-03/plunging-gas-supplies-show-texas-still-hasn-t-prepared-for-cold?fbclid=IwAR0E0Jzo7x1-ZxGQT1YZJB_HrYOzPuiXoeSv5p0focBGwsJWU6qiBcEYtVU

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/01/05/texas-power-grid-natural-gas-cold/

did the price per kwh go up accordingly?

[crash_davis 23090]

Yea. Shit is going to hit the fan again when the next major freeze happens. Assholes didn't learn anything. 

 

https://www.click2houston.com/news/texas/2022/01/05/texas-natural-gas-production-dropped-during-recent-cold-front-reviving-concerns-about-electric-grid/

[atomheartbevo 89514]

2 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

I fail to see the problem for all of us with Taun-Tauns.

Or those of us with neighbors who have Taun-Tauns.

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2660]

Abbott's prayers are filled with pleas to let the plebes freeze next winter, not this winter.  Just one more election cycle, oh Lord. Too CR?

[Guest Lobo]

A little bit.  Don't mention anyone specific, but I think it's safe to say that a large portion of our energy grid strategy this winter is "Thoughts & Prayers"  Which, honestly, I'll take over "Corrupt & Inept"

"But 300 people died Lobo, shouldn't we do something proactive?"

NOW IS NOT THE TIME! 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Lobo

[MonkeyDoughnut 10192]

It does feel like ERCOT is playing the "what's the chance it could happen again....                    while I'm still working here?"

[YChang 3433]

31 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

It does feel like ERCOT is playing the "what's the chance it could happen again....                    while I'm still working here?"

I would add that same thought to the energy producers and Railroad commission as well unfortunately

[idigTexas 2272]

On 1/6/2022 at 7:43 AM, Captainant said:

All y'all cowboys fans just remember that Jerry fucking Jones made BILLIONS of dollars off of the artificial gas shortage last year that led to several hundred Texans freezing to death

Because Cowboys fans need another reason to hate Jerry Jones?

[crash_davis 23090]

21 minutes ago, idigTexas said:

Because Cowboys fans need another reason to hate Jerry Jones?

that motherfucker is the reason the cowboys are no longer my favorite team and one of the reasons why i stopped watching NFL football.

[atomheartbevo 89514]

4 hours ago, crash_davis said:

that motherfucker is the reason the cowboys are no longer my favorite team and one of the reasons why i stopped watching NFL football.

Bud Adams is my #1 reason why I stopped watching NFL football, but Jerry Jones was right behind him.

[Captainant 27524]

Fox26 Houston: Insurance companies sue ERCOT over damage from February's winter storm

 

More than 100 insurance companies are suing ERCOT and dozens of power generating entities for the grid failure during last February’s winter storm.

One report estimates insurers were expected to pay for more than $10 billion in losses.

This lawsuit by dozens of insurance companies alleges ERCOT is responsible for the power failure last year and claims it could have been prevented. 

As we head into the first winter season following the power failure last February, Texans are hoping the grid is better prepared for the cold weather. 

While many are looking ahead, dozens of insurance companies are still focused on 2021. 

Companies filed the joint lawsuit in Travis County against ERCOT, the state's main power grid operator.

The massive power outage in February 2021 resulted in more than 500,000 insurance claims being filed and more than 200 deaths. 

"The point of this lawsuit is to recoup those costs," said Rich Johnson, with the Insurance Council of Texas (ICT).

ICT is not involved with the lawsuit. 

Johnson said while this widescale lawsuit is not common in recent Texas history, similar action has been taken in other states.

"I know, in California, there have been a couple of lawsuits that have actually been settled with insurance companies and their power companies due to wildfires in 2017, 2018," Johnson explained. "There were some massive wildfires where it was discovered that lack of maintenance caused many a couple of the wildfires."

FOX4 reached out to ERCOT for comment, but did not get a response.

The lawsuit claims ERCOT "failed to adequately prepare for the 2020-2021 winter season, and in fact, planned to fail." 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19098]

 

 

[Updawg 2263]

 
 

Yep, they assured us it’s nothing to worry about

[Scheiss Meister 8406]

On 1/11/2022 at 2:02 PM, Updawg said:

Yep, they assured us it’s nothing to worry about

The last time, several companies made hundreds of millions of dollars and got the Legislature to force consumers to pay for that windfall.  Now they are working on how to replicate that without all of the bad PR of 300 dead Texans.  They are right: they have nothing to worry about.

[Captainant 27524]

1 hour ago, Scheiss Meister said:

The last time, several companies made hundreds of millions of dollars and got the Legislature to force consumers to pay for that windfall.  Now they are working on how to replicate that without all of the bad PR of 300 dead Texans.  They are right: they have nothing to worry about.

Just remember, when the gas pipelines freeze up, it's wind and solar's fault!

[Guest]

On 1/6/2022 at 7:43 AM, Captainant said:

All y'all cowboys fans just remember that Jerry fucking Jones made BILLIONS of dollars off of the artificial gas shortage last year that led to several hundred Texans freezing to death

No fan of Jerry Jones (I am a long suffering Cowboys fan), but I’m not sure he made billions. A publicly-traded company in which he owns a majority interest, Comstock, made significant amounts of money (not billions), as did anyone who owned gas production. There was nothing artificial about it; the demand for gas was through the roof because it was colder than a witch’s titty. And this wasn’t a manufactured shortage by producers to drive prices up. Of all the things to hate Jerry for, this isn’t one of them.  

[TexasEd 8066]

1 hour ago, Porterhouse said:

No fan of Jerry Jones (I am a long suffering Cowboys fan), but I’m not sure he made billions. A publicly-traded company in which he owns a majority interest, Comstock, made significant amounts of money (not billions), as did anyone who owned gas production. There was nothing artificial about it; the demand for gas was through the roof because it was colder than a witch’s titty. And this wasn’t a manufactured shortage by producers to drive prices up. Of all the things to hate Jerry for, this isn’t one of them.  

Sure market forces drove up the prices but a portion of that was due to loss of capacity.  I think the angst is that some of the profits from those higher prices should have been rolled into the winterizing of production and distribution industry wide.  Instead of that happening the industry is looking for corporate welfare and insurance to make them whole instead of addressing preventable and predictable problems.  Then there is the double down on messaging that impacts to our base production (gas/coal) is the fault of our flexible production (wind and solar).

If there are any extra fees collected the lawmakers should have mandated that 100% of those fees go to winterization and that standards must be met for extended cold spells.  But they are all in bed together.

Edited January 13, 2022 by TexasEd

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

Sure market forces drove up the prices but a portion of that was due to loss of capacity.  I think the angst is that some of the profits from those higher prices should have been rolled into the winterizing of production and distribution industry wide.  Instead of that happening the industry is looking for corporate welfare and insurance to make them whole instead of addressing preventable and predictable problems.  Then there is the double down on messaging that impacts to our base production (gas/coal) is the fault of our flexible production (wind and solar).

If there are any extra fees collected the lawmakers should have mandated that 100% of those fees go to winterization and that standards must be met for extended cold spells.  But they are all in bed together.

So you want the government dictating to private companies what they use their profit for?  If I’m a producer, who’s been struggling keeping my company out of bankruptcy from 2015-2020, I’d tell the government it can pound sand until it dictates to midstream companies who actually deliver residue gas to market actually go through winterization. 

[TwiceHorn 31374]

14 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

Sure market forces drove up the prices but a portion of that was due to loss of capacity.  I think the angst is that some of the profits from those higher prices should have been rolled into the winterizing of production and distribution industry wide.  Instead of that happening the industry is looking for corporate welfare and insurance to make them whole instead of addressing preventable and predictable problems.  Then there is the double down on messaging that impacts to our base production (gas/coal) is the fault of our flexible production (wind and solar).

That's all true.

The weather conditions were a natural factor increasing demand.  Lack of weatherization of wellheads and pipelines was an artificial factor decreasing supply.  But, if any natural gas producer or supplier profited, it would seem it was because they could supply because their wellheads and pipelines were not frozen, or, properly weatherized.

I'd be interested to know how much of it was frozen wellheads and how much was frozen pipeline apparatus.  I heard a thing on NPR saying that properly weatherizing wellheads for these conditions would be a massive undertaking and cost billions, which makes sense, because according to EIA, there are nearly 119,000 producing gas wells in Texas.  And, it would seem to be unrealistic to believe that only Texas-produced NG is supplied to Texas energy producers.  That might indicate that it was a bigger problem with pipelines than wellheads.

Edited January 13, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31374]

7 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

So you want the government dictating to private companies what they use their profit for?

When the private company is involved in a public-utility business, hell yes. 

For natural gas producers, at least, it's a bit more problematic.

Edited January 13, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Captainant 27524]

36 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

So you want the government dictating to private companies what they use their profit for?

Considering these private companies are running a sanctioned monopoly, receive literally billions a year in direct subsidies from the taxpayers of the state of Texas, and have already directly led to the deaths of hundreds of Texans... Yeah, I fucking do. Fuck them.

 

For someone that is no fan of Jerry Jones, you sure do spend a ton of words defending his profiteering on dead Texans.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

When the private company is involved in a public-utility business, hell yes. 

For natural gas producers, at least, it's a bit more problematic.

I was talking about the latter because of the Jerry Jones out-of-nowhere comment. To me, it’s a resounding “no”.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Considering these private companies are running a sanctioned monopoly, receive literally billions a year in direct subsidies from the taxpayers of the state of Texas, and have already directly led to the deaths of hundreds of Texans... Yeah, I fucking do. Fuck them.

 

For someone that is no fan of Jerry Jones, you sure do spend a ton of words defending his profiteering on dead Texans.

Huh, what direct subsidies are received?  Enlighten me. 

He didn’t profiteer on dead Texans. That’s ridiculous. He didn’t have a choice in what he was paid. Comstock was just paid, by its first purchaser, the average natural gas price for the month of February production. There was nothing Jerry could have done about it; it’s a very explicitly-worded formulaic contract. The same occurred in April 2020 when he was probably netting less than $1/mcf. 

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's all true.

The weather conditions were a natural factor increasing demand.  Lack of weatherization of wellheads and pipelines was an artificial factor decreasing supply.  But, if any natural gas producer or supplier profited, it would seem it was because they could supply because their wellheads and pipelines were not frozen, or, properly weatherized.

I'd be interested to know how much of it was frozen wellheads and how much was frozen pipeline apparatus.  I heard a thing on NPR saying that properly weatherizing wellheads for these conditions would be a massive undertaking and cost billions, which makes sense, because according to EIA, there are nearly 119,000 producing gas wells in Texas.  And, it would seem to be unrealistic to believe that only Texas-produced NG is supplied to Texas energy producers.  That might indicate that it was a bigger problem with pipelines than wellheads.

It was a transportation issue - not a producer issue. 

[Captainant 27524]

15 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

He didn’t profiteer on dead Texans. That’s ridiculous. He didn’t have a choice in what he was paid. Comstock was just paid, by its first purchaser, the average natural gas price for the month of February production. There was nothing Jerry could have done about it; it’s a very explicitly-worded formulaic contract. The same occurred in April 2020 when he was probably netting less than $1/mcf. 

You're right - the singular majority shareholder of a company has ZERO input into the operations of that business, and has ZERO choice in how it operates, what profit it extracts, and what proactive risk mitigation steps they may take.

I just think it's fucked up to make consumers and taxpayers pay for a failure of planning and leadership that they had no input into. These private companies are allowed to do a shitty job to cause a crisis, and then profit off of their own created crisis. They should not be allowed to socialize their losses and privatize their profits.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You're right - the singular majority shareholder of a company has ZERO input into the operations of that business, and has ZERO choice in how it operates, what profit it extracts, and what proactive risk mitigation steps they may take.

I just think it's fucked up to make consumers and taxpayers pay for a failure of planning and leadership that they had no input into. These private companies are allowed to do a shitty job to cause a crisis, and then profit off of their own created crisis. They should not be allowed to socialize their losses and privatize their profits.

You failed to answer my pushback about your direct subsidies. 

Your posts are filled with philosophical concepts, and I strongly suspect you make shit up. Of course he has great influence. But after gas marketing, transportation and purchasing agreements contract are agreed to, the Company is going to receive prices attendant to the formulas contained in them. He literally can’t do anything about it.

The crisis wasn’t caused by these companies. You can blame midstream companies, but I wouldn’t. I’d blame the weather and ERCOT. You making comments like “they profited off their own created crisis” is so devoid of reality. You have such a lack of understanding of the business that I’m wasting my time here. 

[Captainant 27524]

5 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

You failed to answer my pushback about your direct subsidies. 

Your posts are filled with philosophical concepts, and I strongly suspect you make shit up. Of course he has great influence. But after gas marketing, transportation and purchasing agreements contract are agreed to, the Company is going to receive prices attendant to the formulas contained in them. He literally can’t do anything about it.

The crisis wasn’t caused by these companies. You can blame midstream companies, but I wouldn’t. I’d blame the weather and ERCOT. You making comments like “they profited off their own created crisis” is so devoid of reality. You have such a lack of understanding of the business that I’m wasting my time here. 

My apologies for having trouble finding direct data on subsidies. However I will correct myself to NG production in TX recieving ~1.6B in subsidies from Texas. Weird how it's so hard to find, I guess. If you have better data, I'm all ears

Can you elaborate by what you mean in blaming ERCOT? If anything, wouldn't it be the fault of the RRC that natural gas stopped flowing?

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, Captainant said:

My apologies for having trouble finding direct data on subsidies. However I will correct myself to NG production in TX recieving ~1.6B in subsidies from Texas. Weird how it's so hard to find, I guess. If you have better data, I'm all ears

Can you elaborate by what you mean in blaming ERCOT? If anything, wouldn't it be the fault of the RRC that natural gas stopped flowing?

I’m not reading 38 pages from academics. I did read the few pages. It says:

“• Renewable generation is supported by direct subsidies while generation from fossil fuels is supported via indirect subsidies. That is, the government encourages the production of fossil fuels generally, but not their burning for electric power specifi ally.
• There are no subsidies that directly encourage the burning of hydrocarbons for electricity production.”

That is from your own source. Bottom line is there are no direct subsidies in the industry. So you made that up. And I’d argue tax incentives are both necessary and not even indirect subsidies. 

Which governmental body regulates pipelines?

[Js1 85166]

The Department of Steel Shank

[TexasEd 8066]

2 hours ago, Porterhouse said:

So you want the government dictating to private companies what they use their profit for?  If I’m a producer, who’s been struggling keeping my company out of bankruptcy from 2015-2020, I’d tell the government it can pound sand until it dictates to midstream companies who actually deliver residue gas to market actually go through winterization. 

Re-read this part

3 hours ago, TexasEd said:

If there are any extra fees collected the lawmakers should have mandated that 100% of those fees go to winterization and that standards must be met for extended cold spells.  But they are all in bed together.

These are not profits, they are the extra fees that ERCOT and/or the legislature allowed producers to collect.  The energy producers may be collecting the fees but they could be used to ensure they have a stable supply from the well-heads to the plant.

Edited January 13, 2022 by TexasEd

[Captainant 27524]

11 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

I’m not reading 38 pages from academics. I did read the few pages. It says:

“• Renewable generation is supported by direct subsidies while generation from fossil fuels is supported via indirect subsidies. That is, the government encourages the production of fossil fuels generally, but not their burning for electric power specifi ally.
• There are no subsidies that directly encourage the burning of hydrocarbons for electricity production.”

That is from your own source. Bottom line is there are no direct subsidies in the industry. So you made that up. And I’d argue tax incentives are both necessary and not even indirect subsidies. 

Which governmental body regulates pipelines?

They aren't subsidizing burning NG, they're subsidizing the production of NG. Page 33 - appendix 2, table 2A - fuel production tax expenditures.

And since you didn't know, the Texas Railroad Commission regulates pipelines in Texas.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Captainant

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Captainant said:

They aren't subsidizing burning NG, they're subsidizing the production of NG. Page 33 - appendix 2, table 2A - fuel production tax expenditures.

And since you didn't know, the Texas Railroad Commission regulates pipelines in Texas.

You’re gonna have to point out in the narrative to me where it says the E&P industry is directly subsidized. It’s simply not. Not like renewables and other industries. Are there tax incentives to drill and complete oil and gas wells?  Yes, and rightfully so. This is no different than a lot of tax breaks to businesses and consumers alike. 

To state that Texas taxpayers are subsidizing E&P companies is insanely moronic. 

[TwiceHorn 31374]

6 hours ago, Captainant said:

You're right - the singular majority shareholder of a company has ZERO input into the operations of that business, and has ZERO choice in how it operates, what profit it extracts, and what proactive risk mitigation steps they may take.

I just think it's fucked up to make consumers and taxpayers pay for a failure of planning and leadership that they had no input into. These private companies are allowed to do a shitty job to cause a crisis, and then profit off of their own created crisis. They should not be allowed to socialize their losses and privatize their profits.

The point is, though, that natural gas producers don't directly participate in the power utility market.  They serve lots of other markets too.  And whatever subsidies they receive are a separate issue from utilities.

And, as stated above, if a producer or pipeline company profited from the weather, it pretty much means that they weren't frozen up.  They were delivering gas.

[TwiceHorn 31374]

31 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

You’re gonna have to point out in the narrative to me where it says the E&P industry is directly subsidized. It’s simply not. Not like renewables and other industries. Are there tax incentives to drill and complete oil and gas wells?  Yes, and rightfully so. This is no different than a lot of tax breaks to businesses and consumers alike. 

To state that Texas taxpayers are subsidizing E&P companies is insanely moronic. 

Well, last time I checked, Texans, most of em, pay federal taxes.

But, by and large, I agree with you.

99% of the time, if a producers' wellheads freeze up, that's their problem and results in an inability to sell gas and lost money.

A similarly large percentage of the time, if a pipeline's compressors freeze up, or there's too much liquid in the line, or similar weather-related problems, that's their problem because they can't deliver gas and they'll breach contracts and lose money.

At some point, though, especially pipelines are critical infrastructure and need to be weatherized.  It's really difficult to justify forcing weatherization of all 100k+ gas wellheads in Texas.  That would result in some of those wells being shut in and lost production that would hurt.  I'm less troubled by forcing pipelines to weatherize.  It will benefit them and us.

Edited January 14, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Horns99 155]

Captain, tell us where the majority of Jerry Jones’s company’s production is located


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, last time I checked, Texans, most of em, pay federal taxes.

But, by and large, I agree with you.

99% of the time, if a producers' wellheads freeze up, that's their problem and results in an inability to sell gas and lost money.

A similarly large percentage of the time, if a pipeline's compressors freeze up, or there's too much liquid in the line, or similar weather-related problems, that's their problem because they can't deliver gas and they'll breach contracts and lose money.

At some point, though, especially pipelines are critical infrastructure and need to be weatherized.  It's really difficult to justify forcing weatherization of all 100k+ gas wellheads in Texas.  That would result in some of those wells being shut in and lost production that would hurt.  I'm less troubled by forcing pipelines to weatherize.  It will benefit them and us.

I agree with most everything you are saying. You have a reasonable approach. You get it. Unlike Captain, who’s shouting populist spittle without an understanding of the way the world works. Forcing pipelines to winterize at their own cost is a slippery slope though. Making independent producers do it would kill the industry and is unnecessary.

Saying Texans are subsidizing producers is just flat out wrong. It’s akin to saying Texas homeowners (most of whom pay a shitload of federal income tax every year) are subsidized by other taxable entities just because they take a property tax deduction. It’s taking two unconnected concepts and melding them together for a sound bite. 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Horns99 said:

Captain, tell us where the majority of Jerry Jones’s company’s production is located


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Haynesville. East Texas and North Louisiana.