ERCOT Urging For Energy Conservation

[tigol 2387]

I can’t stand to hear the damn thing kick on and run constantly. It feels like $$ just blowing out of the house. My husband and I have somewhat settled on 76, but he thinks I am insane to turn it up to 78 or 79 when we are not home.

Why does this not make sense? It doesn’t take long to cool it back to 76.

[Bateshorn 9917]

5 minutes ago, tigol said:

I can’t stand to hear the damn thing kick on and run constantly. It feels like $$ just blowing out of the house. My husband and I have somewhat settled on 76, but he thinks I am insane to turn it up to 78 or 79 when we are not home.

Why does this not make sense? It doesn’t take long to cool it back to 76.

Turning it up is exactly what you should be doing to save money and reduce your climate impact when you aren't home. 

[Bateshorn 9917]

3 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

In Maryland, where it’s humid as fuck, in my prewar house, I have to run fans in every room and the hallway to move enough air to keep my upstairs less than 10 degrees warmer than my downstairs. 

I keep it at 73 during the day while we remote work. I push it down to 69 at night so I can actually sleep.  But again, the zone difference between my upstairs and downstairs is nightmarish.  I'm thinking about getting a room AC to make the bedroom livable during high summer.

[Post Oak 20191]

Well from reading this thread it seems like my house is solely responsible for ERCOTs issues.  

[Dahobbs 17498]

In Houston, the temperature is less the problem than the humidity for me. 75-78 (f) when humidity in the house is lower than 50% is pretty comfortable. But when the humidity is higher, especially above 60%, it is pretty intolerable. I don't have a separate dehumidifier, so I rely on the AC to do that work, meaning that the temperature is often set below 75 during the day just to get the humidity down. 

[High Plains Drifter 10994]

On 5/5/2022 at 11:13 AM, Johnny Sack said:

How does mining work for bitcoin?  There are a finite amount of bitcoins, right?  So once that number is reached, is there no more mining?

I do not understand crypto well despite trying to and watching a documentary on it.

 

caveat: I'm not really up on bitcoin, but as i understand it...

yes, there are a finite number of bitcoins that can be mined. But the closer to that number we get, the harder it becomes to mine more. If you are familiar with higher mathematics, that finite number is a limit, and you can get asymptotically  closer and closer to it, but never actually reach it. Since that number is finite, the value of one bitcoin will increase as we get closer to the number.

 

Bolded is where its all bullshit really.

 

 

In the first picture below, the horizontal line is the finite number. As you get closer and closer to that value, it gets harder and harder to get closer. We will never reach the line, but we can get infinitely close to it.

[Bateshorn 9917]

23 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

In Houston, the temperature is less the problem than the humidity for me. 75-78 (f) when humidity in the house is lower than 50% is pretty comfortable. But when the humidity is higher, especially above 60%, it is pretty intolerable. I don't have a separate dehumidifier, so I rely on the AC to do that work, meaning that the temperature is often set below 75 during the day just to get the humidity down. 

This is our problem.  I run a dehumidifier in the basement pretty much non stop from April through October.  But the house is so damn drafty I just had to crank the AC down to make the house tolerable from a humidity stand point.

[Parliament 14159]

5 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

caveat: I'm not really up on bitcoin, but as i understand it...

yes, there are a finite number of bitcoins that can be mined. But the closer to that number we get, the harder it becomes to mine more. If you are familiar with higher mathematics, that finite number is a limit, and you can get asymptotically  closer and closer to it, but never actually reach it. Since that number is finite, the value of one bitcoin will increase as we get closer to the number.

 

Bolded is where its all bullshit really.

 

 

In the first picture below, the horizontal line is the finite number. As you get closer and closer to that value, it gets harder and harder to get closer. We will never reach the line, but we can get infinitely close to it.

If Surly hasta do literal trigonometry to fix this, i dunno.  We're all morons here.  

[UT_OB1 2204]

48 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I keep it at 73 during the day while we remote work. I push it down to 69 at night so I can actually sleep.  But again, the zone difference between my upstairs and downstairs is nightmarish.  I'm thinking about getting a room AC to make the bedroom livable during high summer.

You can get a single zone mini split installed pretty cheaply (for a one zone there are actually preloaded diy kits).  My experience is they work great, are quiet, and cheaper than doing anything to your central AC. 

[Nivek 16887]

33 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

In Houston, the temperature is less the problem than the humidity for me. 75-78 (f) when humidity in the house is lower than 50% is pretty comfortable. But when the humidity is higher, especially above 60%, it is pretty intolerable. I don't have a separate dehumidifier, so I rely on the AC to do that work, meaning that the temperature is often set below 75 during the day just to get the humidity down. 

Variable speed AC unit helps with this quite a bit.   

[Johnny Sack 8397]

I have a split level in my garage.  It's where I workout.  It is also insulated and sheet rocked.  I keep it on about 65.  I have not noticed any difference in my electric bills since I installed it.

I keep the house around 73.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13426]

3 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

caveat: I'm not really up on bitcoin, but as i understand it...

yes, there are a finite number of bitcoins that can be mined. But the closer to that number we get, the harder it becomes to mine more. If you are familiar with higher mathematics, that finite number is a limit, and you can get asymptotically  closer and closer to it, but never actually reach it. Since that number is finite, the value of one bitcoin will increase as we get closer to the number.

 

Bolded is where its all bullshit really.

 

 

In the first picture below, the horizontal line is the finite number. As you get closer and closer to that value, it gets harder and harder to get closer. We will never reach the line, but we can get infinitely close to it.

The last bitcoin will be mined around 2140 based on the current code. Could that be changed? In theory, yes but probably it won’t. As for how that impacts bitcoin, we will let the people born after 2090 worry about that. 

[Steel Shank 9417]

Because my dance moves and mixtapes generate so much heat, I keep my ac running full blast 24/7. I got a line of women out the fucking door.

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

The rest of the week is going to be hot in all the major Texas metro areas. Any ercot warnings going out or are we supposed to survive this round of heat?

[Biff Tannen 45597]

2 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

The rest of the week is going to be hot in all the major Texas metro areas. Any ercot warnings going out or are we supposed to survive this round of heat?

[Surly Bevo 24880]

I don't get people who won't run their A/C and take pride in their lizard like existence.  It's like people who cheap out on a mattress when they could do better.  You spend a 1/3 or so of your life in bed, don't skimp.  You spend 1/3 of your life (if you live in Texas) in generally blistering heat....don't skimp.  

[atomheartbevo 89514]

5 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

This is our problem.  I run a dehumidifier in the basement 

[Bateshorn 9917]

7 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

It’s a fun home feature that floods  every spring. Indoor pools are the rage. You should get one. 

[fattyflattie 4637]

10 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

It’s a fun home feature that floods  every spring. Indoor pools are the rage. You should get one. 

I find it more unbearable in your neck of the woods than at home in west Houston.  This will be summer #3 in DC area. The humidity is so fuck. 

[InkaUtexas 25641]

4 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I find it more unbearable in your neck of the woods than at home in west Houston.  This will be summer #3 in DC area. The humidity is so fuck. 

Add to it the yellow smog and love DC in the summer. 

[Samson's Wig 3182]

8 hours ago, kevwun said:

I'm pretty sure my wife would keep the ac at 65 round the clock if I let her.  It is never cold enough for her.

Better than the alternative.  Sounds like you hit the jackpot to me.

[Samson's Wig 3182]

2 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

I don't get people who won't run their A/C and take pride in their lizard like existence.  It's like people who cheap out on a mattress when they could do better.  You spend a 1/3 or so of your life in bed, don't skimp.  You spend 1/3 of your life (if you live in Texas) in generally blistering heat....don't skimp.  

My top theory is that it is some form of religious self-flagellation mentality trickling into the secular aspects of their lives.  Or maybe it is leftover Great Depression austerity pride passed down from parents/grandparents.  Fuckers can go be a monk in a Sonoran sweat lodge if they want to, I'll be comfortable and cool in my house.  ERCOT can get fucked along with anyone purposefully choosing to sweat while sitting at the dinner table so they can earn tough guy and/or woke eco points.

My other working theory is simpler.  The people pridefully talking about how fucking hot their house is are either female, old, have ruined their circulation with smoking, or suffer from an iron deficiency (or some combination of the four).  I have more sympathy for these folks than the former, but they'll still have to deal with hard nips if they come over to my ice palace for Sunday brunch.

[CooterBrown 17953]

The last bitcoin will be mined around 2140 based on the current code. Could that be changed? In theory, yes but probably it won’t. As for how that impacts bitcoin, we will let the people born after 2090 worry about that. 

How much electricity will it take to mine that last coin? All of it?

[Errestaurants 2570]

3 units 3 thermostats all set at 72. Fuck Ercot 

[Guest]

On 5/3/2022 at 9:12 PM, Johnny Sack said:

I have some O&G clients talking about using gas that would be flared to fuel generators to power bitcoin mining.  Is that even feasible?

Happens all the time. 

[Bateshorn 9917]

Crypto seems to be broadly working out for investors.  What could possibly go wrong basing a portion of Texas electrical generation and grid on it?

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

2 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

Crypto seems to be broadly working out for investors.  What could possibly go wrong basing a portion of Texas electrical generation and grid on it?

I will be shocked if we don't end up bailing out the crypto miner losses this year.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Grade of D as in David

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

Crypto seems to be broadly working out for investors.  What could possibly go wrong basing a portion of Texas electrical generation and grid on it?

I don’t understand this premise. Natural gas that would otherwise be flared (typically generated by older wells where setting up pipe infrastructure is not economically attractive) is USED TO power bitcoin mining operations. How will that, in turn, be relied upon for general public electricity consumption?

[Captainant 27523]

36 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

I don’t understand this premise. Natural gas that would otherwise be flared (typically generated by older wells where setting up pipe infrastructure is not economically attractive) is USED TO power bitcoin mining operations. How will that, in turn, be relied upon for general public electricity consumption?

That is not representative of at-scale bitcoin mining, which is more akin to plain old data center ops. If that flared NG was such a viable power source, I'd imagine that those savvy well operators would not have been burning money for so long.

All that bitcoin and cryptocurrency is is a mechanism to expend energy and capitalize that you just consumed the energy. That's the basic underlying market force. So if you're saying the value gained from dragging a server rack out to a well, paying a nerd to manage it, maintaining data connectivity, and maintaining adequate cooling is more profitable than just capturing the flare or selling your excess energy back to the grid.... Not sure I follow your police work there Lou

[Updawg 2263]

I don’t understand this premise. Natural gas that would otherwise be flared (typically generated by older wells where setting up pipe infrastructure is not economically attractive) is USED TO power bitcoin mining operations. How will that, in turn, be relied upon for general public electricity consumption?

I don’t think that’s the concern and it makes sense

The concern is the big crypto data centers in places like Taylor that we will pay to power down when we are in a tight situation

These data centers will use more power than Houston in a few years and supply has not increased to cover it

[Armybrat 40768]

15 hours ago, Steel Shank said:

Because my dance moves and mixtapes generate so much heat, I keep my ac running full blast 24/7. I got a line of women out the fucking door.

Piped in music?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13426]

3 hours ago, Updawg said:

I don’t think that’s the concern and it makes sense

The concern is the big crypto data centers in places like Taylor that we will pay to power down when we are in a tight situation

These data centers will use more power than Houston in a few years and supply has not increased to cover it

Yep. No one is arguing that a mining outfit couldn't/shouldn't run off flared NG.

I can tell you though that it's doubtful that those mining rigs are not attached to the electrical grid as well. Mining companies needs their machines running 24/7. Any lost minute breaks down their business model. Unless the flared NG can promise no downtime, it would be too risky to solely depend on it.

[Samson's Wig 3182]

14 hours ago, Grade of D as in David said:

I will be shocked if we don't end up bailing out the crypto miner losses this year.

Fuck that.

[Brisketexan 104802]

Just now, Samson's Wig said:

Fuck that.

This is Texas.  We've already diverted $1 billion in COVID relief to the governor's border theater production.  You think he has any qualms about direct handouts to his crypto bros?

[Samson's Wig 3182]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

This is Texas.  We've already diverted $1 billion in COVID relief to the governor's border theater production.  You think he has any qualms about direct handouts to his crypto bros?

Of course not.  But I stand by my statement. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Yep. No one is arguing that a mining outfit couldn't/shouldn't run off flared NG.

I can tell you though that it's doubtful that those mining rigs are not attached to the electrical grid as well. Mining companies needs their machines running 24/7. Any lost minute breaks down their business model. Unless the flared NG can promise no downtime, it would be too risky to solely depend on it.

I’m not arguing that either. I just don’t understand how it’d benefit the general grid. I guess @Updawgkind of explained it. 

And your second paragraph: a) there are no “rigs” typically. Once a well is complete a rig is moved off. Bitcoin miners are buying existing wells that either i) are old gas producers that don’t produce much or ii) miners are E&P companies that already own producing oil wells with associated gas; b) the wells no doubt have electricity. It’s needed to operate and a very large cost of operating a well; c) once a well’s gas is linked to the bitcoin mining, it is no longer flared; d) the electrification of a well is in place to either produce oil or is not active for older gas wells that are - before the bitcoin miner buys - offline (and therefore incurring no electric bill). The idea is to have a “market” for that gas by mining bitcoin where otherwise it’s an economic byproduct or not economically attractive to get to another market (via laying expensive gathering pipelines). Adding to a well’s electricity cost by not identifying/buying a big enough nat gas source for the bitcoin mining operation would be too costly and therefore counterintuitive to the whole process. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13426]

18 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

I’m not arguing that either. I just don’t understand how it’d benefit the general grid. I guess @Updawgkind of explained it. 

And your second paragraph: a) there are no “rigs” typically. Once a well is complete a rig is moved off. Bitcoin miners are buying existing wells that either i) are old gas producers that don’t produce much or ii) miners are E&P companies that already own producing oil wells with associated gas; b) the wells no doubt have electricity. It’s needed to operate and a very large cost of operating a well; c) once a well’s gas is linked to the bitcoin mining, it is no longer flared; d) the electrification of a well is in place to either produce oil or is not active for older gas wells that are - before the bitcoin miner buys - offline (and therefore incurring no electric bill). The idea is to have a “market” for that gas by mining bitcoin where otherwise it’s an economic byproduct or not economically attractive to get to another market (via laying expensive gathering pipelines). Adding to a well’s electricity cost by not identifying/buying a big enough nat gas source for the bitcoin mining operation would be too costly and therefore counterintuitive to the whole process. 

We're overlapping terms. When I wrote "rig" I was referencing a mining rig not a drilling rig.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

We're overlapping terms. When I wrote "rig" I was referencing a mining rig not a drilling rig.

Ah, well, the point still remains. The whole purpose of obtaining the gas source / feedstock is to avert electricity because it’s substantially cheaper. Regardless, most outfits pursuing this are oil and gas companies first, trying to monetize gas into crypto. It’s not a bunch of crypto guys trying to play oil guys. In reality, the oil guys have attained some level of crypto competence or hire people who do, but shelling out expensive overhead for those guys doesn’t make a great deal of sense. I’ve seen a lot of people I know in the energy business pursue this path and it’s all about making use of stranded gas assets that have little utility otherwise. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Porterhouse

[Captainant 27523]

1 minute ago, Porterhouse said:

In reality, the oil guys have attained some level of crypto competence or hire people who do

this sounds like something an oil man who thinks he knows everything because he knows oil would say

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

this sounds like something an oil man who thinks he knows everything because he knows oil would say

Sounds like something I really should respond to. 

[utee94 15752]

All this oil talk has probably got @Steel Shank  thinking about laying some pipe.

[Steel Shank 9417]

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

All this oil talk has probably got @Steel Shank  thinking about laying some pipe.

Fuckin' A.

[atomheartbevo 89514]

Friday wasn't an emergency, ERCOT was just being proactive and should have used more clear language, and communicated more as the situation played out.

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/ercot-clarifies-fridays-conservation-request-was-not-an-emergency-alert-was-proactive-ask/

Quote

On Tuesday, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, alongside the Public Utility Commission of Texas, gave an overview of how the state’s power grid is projecting to fare this summer, in addition to updating the public on current grid conditions after asking Texans to conserve power over the weekend. 

Both PUC Commissioner Peter Lake and ERCOT CEO Brad Jones stated they are confident with how our grid is faring heading into the summer, even with new record demand expected to be set. Lake said that’s in part due to the reforms set in motion by lawmakers over the last year, in addition to added generation capacity to the grid.

Quote

“We’ll have 7,000 megawatts of solar condition, we’ll have another two to 3,000 megawatts of wind generation, and about 1,000 megawatts of natural gas generation. So you can see it’s coming from a broad spectrum, but much of that additional generation is from the renewable side,” Jones explained. 

The power grid has also increased its reserve margins.“Two years ago, we had 12%. Last year, we had 15-16%. And this year, we have 23% reserves. So you can see our reserves have grown over each of those years, we feel very confident about our position this summer,” Jones explained.

Quote

“I know the lights are gonna stay on because of all the reforms we’ve put in place. And because that when we do encounter challenges, like we saw last weekend, the multiple reforms are complementary and build off of each other to create even greater reliability,” Lake explained.  Last Friday, ERCOT issued a message on current grid conditions, explaining six power generators had tripped offline, and asked Texans to conserve power. 

“We’re asking Texans to conserve power when they can by setting their thermostats to 78-degrees or above and avoiding the usage of large appliances (such as dishwashers, washers and dryers) during peak hours between 3 p.m. and 8 p.m. through the weekend,” the release reads in part. 

Quote

ERCOT clarified Tuesday this was not an official, emergency conservation alert, although the language that was used is very similar to previous conservation alerts that have been issued, like this one in September 2019: “Consumers and businesses are urged to reduce their electricity use…Steps to help reduce electricity use: Turn off any unnecessary lights and equipment. Turn thermostat up 2 to 3 degrees during the peak hours of 2 to 7 p.m. Set programmable thermostats to higher temperatures when no one is home.”

Quote

On Tuesday, ERCOT committed to making sure the language of future requests is more clear. “We’re looking back at that communication that we put out, and making sure that we refined that language. This wasn’t a conservation alert, it wasn’t a conservation appeal. It was just a request to Texans to help us out over this weekend. So it wasn’t that we’re in a dangerous situation at all, it was to make sure that we’re doing everything possible to keep the grid reliable. So we need to improve that language. And we’ll commit to that,” Jones said. 

Quote

The request, though, Lake says, was a proactive effort.  “This time, we didn’t wait until the emergency to request for conservation. Two, three years ago, that would not have been the case. This is part of ERCOT and the PUC be more proactive, more communicative with Texans,” Lake added.

Jones also said the state agencies could also have been more communicative once grid conditions improved.“I think it would be good for us to have a communication at the end of one of these cycles to make sure that we respond, let everyone know where we are, and kind of give some feedback to what the response was like. And as I mentioned earlier, we saw roughly three or 400 megawatts of response out of Texas. And that that is a great number for us to see,” Jones explained, thanking Texans who did try to conserve.

 

[Steel Shank 9417]

9 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Friday wasn't an emergency, ERCOT was just being proactive and should have used more clear language, and communicated more as the situation played out.

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/ercot-clarifies-fridays-conservation-request-was-not-an-emergency-alert-was-proactive-ask/

 

Well Ok then.

[TexArcher 37703]

So, as we're basically having June in May, what's the over/under on when the whole thing crashes?  Around July 4th?

[crash_davis 23090]

37 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

So, as we're basically having June in May, what's the over/under on when the whole thing crashes?  Around July 4th?

we'll use the light of fireworks to read and cook. 

[kevwun 15716]

Ribeyes grilled over Roman candles are delicious. 

[TexArcher 37703]

2 hours ago, crash_davis said:

we'll use the light of fireworks to read and cook. 

Murka!

Turxas!

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

 

[atomheartbevo 89514]

Surprising it wasn’t more, so yay?

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/oncor-blames-weekend-power-outages-on-heat/

Quote

Oncor Electric Delivery said record heat and electric demand are to blame for increased outages over the weekend. 

Spokesperson Kerri Dunn said at one point on Sunday evening, outages numbered about 2,000. She said that’s one snapshot of data, but it’s challenging to provide a total number of outages for the weekend, “as outages were occurring and being addressed throughout the weekend.”