ERCOT Urging For Energy Conservation

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, we're coming up on 1/3rd of our existence being post-WWII.  Not sure what that means, except less reliable power supply in the most energy-rich state in human history.  Our ineptitude in this respect will be studied for generations much like how energy-rich Soviet Russia couldn't keep its own people warm.  Looks like we're gonna fuck up multiple seasons.  

I feel like Claire, wife of Bob at Bob's Country Bunker is talking to us:
"What kind of seasons do you usually fuck up here?"
"Oh, we fuck up both kids...Winter & Summer!" 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Lobo

[Lerka Lerka 1096]

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

A friend was joking that we aren't far off from ERCOT coming out and saying that rolling blackouts/brownouts are going to become the norm as more and more people move in, and construction of new homes/buildings/etc. keeps booming.

Is that you, friend? Had this exact conversation with my brother yesterday. 

[Hagbard Celine 11178]

13 hours ago, Chet Steadman said:

I know nothing about ERCOTs security features but I would imagine, given recent past performances, they’re ripe for the next big hack by a foreign source.   

ercot is right in the wheelhouse of the hackers.  to refresh for those that were not aware, the hackers bricked the ancient oracle erp running at patriot pipeline, so their executives shut down delivery of the juice because they wouldn't be able to figure out how to bill an extra trillion of profits until they figured out how to meter the liquefied dinosaurs without uncle larry.

ercot is world-class at shutting things down on purpose.

what they really need to do is hack wheels' transportation.

[Lhorn 5080]

On 6/16/2021 at 5:55 PM, texhorn said:

Might cost you just as much to run the dehumidifier. Even all the energy star ones like power.

Didn’t want to shit on anyone’s parade yesterday but it was my understanding that dehumidifiers are energy hogs. 

[Revolution512 1513]

7 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

They have plenty of ROW, etc. in a lot of areas, and at the very least they could get part of it buried.

If it's a new build, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't that much. more expensive to bury from the start, since you can do that stuff before the homes etc. are built.

I have a feeling some bean counters have crunched the numbers on retrofitting, and decided it's cheaper to let storms take the stuff out and just run new line between the poles, than to actively take older stuff developments and bury the infrastructure.  

I get it in places like parts of Austin where they'd have to be dealing with cutting through rock, but Houston?

There are several cities in central Texas where it must be placed underground. It still lacks planning, it’s first come, first serve. Duct banks need to be utilized but are not. Dry utilities must maintain proper spacing per permit/safety regulations. Is it going to be expensive? Of course. Cities should front the construction costs, streamline permitting and then lease the alignment/conduit to the utilities. 

[atomheartbevo 90582]

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/ut-study-connects-ercot-issues-from-february-storms-to-recent-conservation-request/

Quote

A new analysis by University of Texas at Austin researchers about the state’s response to the February winter storms helps explain why Texas’ power administrators made similar pleas to residents to save power in June.

It’s all tied to demand response and preparation, researchers said in the peer-reviewed article published in “Energy Research and Social Science.” While the weather conditions in February and June were polar opposites, it created the same basic issue for the Electric Reliability Council of Texas.

 

Quote

“The 2021 freeze suggests a need to rethink the state’s regulatory approach to energy to avoid such outcomes in the future,” said Joshua Busby, a climate and security expert at UT’s LBJ School of Public Affairs. “Weatherization, demand response and expanded interstate interconnections are potential solutions Texas should consider to avoid generation losses, reduce demand, and tap neighboring states’ capacity.”

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13713]

Chronicle article detailing additional, hidden costs to the February high costs: govts or public institutions spent billions in gas and electricity overages. This was or will be a transfer of tax dollars from you and I to the electricity generators.  As an example, UT-Austin paid $3.6m for natural gas in Feb '21 when the Feb '20 cost was 900K.  

These costs will ultimately be passed down to taxpayers or consumers, depending on the organization.

The sad part is that no one in the state govt is agreeing that deregulation failed, or at the the implementation of it failed in Feb. The point of the fluctuating prices is to bring more electricity online. It didn't do that. It only gave online power generators a ridiculous multi-billion dollar bonus. The offline power generators had no ability to get online so why did ERCOT raise prices? This was the largest "theft" in Texas history.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10766]

26 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/ut-study-connects-ercot-issues-from-february-storms-to-recent-conservation-request/

 

 

They keep preaching the interconnects and tapping neighboring states capacity... I'd love to know where this capacity is they speak of. 

All the grids are suffering from the issues ERCOT is, some  most  all are just better managed and/or have a completely different load profile.

Clarifying to note management issue is in the long term planning ... the daily operation guys that manage the grid "live" are some of the best in the business.

Edited June 18, 2021 by MonkeyDoughnut

[MonkeyDoughnut 10766]

2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Chronicle article detailing additional, hidden costs to the February high costs: govts or public institutions spent billions in gas and electricity overages. This was or will be a transfer of tax dollars from you and I to the electricity generators.  As an example, UT-Austin paid $3.6m for natural gas in Feb '21 when the Feb '20 cost was 900K.  

These costs will ultimately be passed down to taxpayers or consumers, depending on the organization.

The sad part is that no one in the state govt is agreeing that deregulation failed, or at the the implementation of it failed in Feb. The point of the fluctuating prices is to bring more electricity online. It didn't do that. It only gave online power generators a ridiculous multi-billion dollar bonus. The offline power generators had no ability to get online so why did ERCOT raise prices? This was the largest "theft" in Texas history.

This is a big part of the grid issue. All these bodies are "non-profit/revenue zero" companies so they can't make or lose money which means they have zero risk other than their jobs. Everything gets passed through to customers whether generators or residents

[Cajun 11771]

19 hours ago, Lobo said:

Yeah, we're coming up on 1/3rd of our existence being post-WWII.  Not sure what that means, except less reliable power supply in the most energy-rich state in human history.  Our ineptitude in this respect will be studied for generations much like how energy-rich Soviet Russia couldn't keep its own people warm.  Looks like we're gonna fuck up multiple seasons.  

I feel like Claire, wife of Bob at Bob's Country Bunker is talking to us:
"What kind of seasons do you usually fuck up here?"
"Oh, we fuck up both kids...Winter & Summer!" 

ERCOT and Abbot are gonna look pretty funny eating corn on the cob without ANY FUCKIN' TEETH!

[Guest Lobo]

both kinds.  Meant to type both kinds.  Dammit! 

 

[C-Man 27710]

Was having a conversation with a financial planner/client of mine this week. We were talking about the ERCOT/conservation fiasco and he said that we're in a world of shit if a bunch of Bitcoin mining operations relocate to Texas, which is what Abbott is begging to come to Texas.

I didn't realize this but my client said China outlawed Bitcoin mining partly because they were using such great amounts of power that it forced them to miss all of their environmental goals, etc, so they just shut them down. He said something about Texas and Kazakhstan becoming the new Bitcoin mining centers and that if Texas were to have 10% of these ops shut down in China show up in Texas, we can expect rolling blackouts as an everyday part of life if we don't do something about our grid.

[elfenix 34676]

5 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Was having a conversation with a financial planner/client of mine this week. We were talking about the ERCOT/conservation fiasco and he said that we're in a world of shit if a bunch of Bitcoin mining operations relocate to Texas, which is what Abbott is begging to come to Texas.

I didn't realize this but my client said China outlawed Bitcoin mining partly because they were using such great amounts of power that it forced them to miss all of their environmental goals, etc, so they just shut them down. He said something about Texas and Kazakhstan becoming the new Bitcoin mining centers and that if Texas were to have 10% of these ops shut down in China show up in Texas, we can expect rolling blackouts as an everyday part of life if we don't do something about our grid.

some of these bitcoin operations tap into wellhead gas which wouldn't really impact the grid. 

[Guest Lobo]

^

what's a good place/site to go learn more about that?  I don't want to invest in it, but bitcoin mining in Texas talk is just not going away and I'm curious about the energy pull it'll need.  Know almost nothing about it so far.  Which sadly, probably qualifies me to run the ERCOT Sub-Committee on Bitcoin Mining 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Lobo

[elfenix 34676]

12 minutes ago, Lobo said:

^

what's a good place/site to go learn more about that?  I don't want to invest in it, but bitcoin mining in Texas talk is just not going away and I'm curious about the energy pull it'll need.  Know almost nothing about it so far.  Which sadly, probably qualifies me to run the ERCOT Sub-Committee on Bitcoin Mining 

https://oilmanmagazine.com/how-and-why-natural-gas-flaring-is-being-used-to-mine-bitcoin/

 

you could probably get a prospectus from the company mentioned in that article even tho you're not investing

Edited June 18, 2021 by elfenix

[Nice Guy Eddie 13713]

Bitcoin mining is only worthwhile at scale if you can get electricity rates down to a few cents or less. Just because Abbott wants them here means nothing unless he can reduce their power costs.  I guarantee a large mining operations would be worried about the recent ercot problems. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19413]

He will pay them (with our money) to come here just so he can scream about jobs.

[Guest Lobo]

It's also awkward when he goes from the groundbreakings of these tech company relocations to another event where he rails on the evils of Big Tech to donors. 

Maybe there's an owning of the environmentalists in here somewhere.  

I'm sure the first bitcoin mining companies we invite to Texas with tax abatement and energy bill incentives will be owned by Russian or Chinese investors.  We won't find that out during the due diligence phase.  And when we discover it, we'll blame it on....................

Alas, noCR.

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Lobo

[Updawg 2378]

He will pay them (with our money) to come here just so he can scream about jobs.

My first thought. Give a ton of tax incentives to someone that will destroy us.

[atomheartbevo 90582]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Bitcoin mining is only worthwhile at scale if you can get electricity rates down to a few cents or less. Just because Abbott wants them here means nothing unless he can reduce their power costs.  I guarantee a large mining operations would be worried about the recent ercot problems. 

2 hours ago, C-Man said:

Was having a conversation with a financial planner/client of mine this week. We were talking about the ERCOT/conservation fiasco and he said that we're in a world of shit if a bunch of Bitcoin mining operations relocate to Texas, which is what Abbott is begging to come to Texas.

I didn't realize this but my client said China outlawed Bitcoin mining partly because they were using such great amounts of power that it forced them to miss all of their environmental goals, etc, so they just shut them down. He said something about Texas and Kazakhstan becoming the new Bitcoin mining centers and that if Texas were to have 10% of these ops shut down in China show up in Texas, we can expect rolling blackouts as an everyday part of life if we don't do something about our grid.

Large-scale Bitcoin mining is already here.  We have a larger presence than any other state.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/bitcoin-cryptocurrency-texas-blockchain-leader/

Quote

The push to transform Texas’s abundance of rural areas with surprisingly robust and cheap electricity access into Bitcoin mining towns has exponentially increased, driven by the currency’s surge to record levels (as of April 29, one Bitcoin is worth close to $53,000. The high was earlier in April: $63,729.50).

Bitcoin, it turns out, isn’t done with Rockdale; several companies are investing hundreds of millions there, taking advantage of electrical infrastructure left behind by Alcoa, a Pittsburgh-based aluminum company that at one time employed two thousand residents of the town. Earlier this month, the Bitcoin mining company Riot Blockchain signed a deal to buy Whinstone US’s Rockdale mining operation for $651 million in cash and stock. Texas now has the largest Bitcoin mining presence of any state.

Fuckin' aggy

Quote

Korok Ray, director of A&M’s Mays Innovation Research Center at the Mays Business School, said the conference proved successful because interest in the sector has spiked. “Bitcoin mining in Texas is particularly promising, given our global advantage in energy supply,” he said.

Quote

With Whinstone as its site provider, Rhodium has access to about eight hundred megawatts of power. 

Is 800 MW a lot of power for one bitcoin operation?

[Grade of D as in David 13255]

It's going to be great when these Bitcoin mines are deemed critical infrastructure and though they are causing blackouts, won't actually be impacted by them.

[miguelito 11455]

When the time comes, instead of "rolling blackouts," let's call them "Abbott blackouts."

One, as a tribute to the guy that got us here, and two, because 

[Telegraph_it 3377]

15 hours ago, elfenix said:

some of these bitcoin operations tap into wellhead gas which wouldn't really impact the grid. 

This. I’ve worked on a couple of projects using flare gas to power Bitcoin mining. Also cow farts (RNG). 

[Beau Vine 55844]

On 6/17/2021 at 9:07 PM, Hagbard Celine said:

what they really need to do is hack wheels' transportation.

[troph 25101]

The Texas miracle who-ha! 

[atomheartbevo 90582]

14 hours ago, Grade of D as in David said:

It's going to be great when these Bitcoin mines are deemed critical infrastructure and though they are causing blackouts, won't actually be impacted by them.

Let's just hope they don't impact water usage with their need for more and more electricity.

Oh.

[freyguy 4366]

2 hours ago, troph said:

The Texas miracle who-ha! 

 

[Grimas 674]

Texas residents say the temperatures on their smart thermostats were RAISED overnight without their permission after state's power operators warned of shortages amid a heat wave

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9703747/Texas-residents-say-temperature-smart-thermostats-raised-remotely.html

 

 

 

[4th_and_18 709]

They fucked around in a program to win a prize and then found out.

[Telegraph_it 3377]

5 minutes ago, Grimas said:

Texas residents say the temperatures on their smart thermostats were RAISED overnight without their permission after state's power operators warned of shortages amid a heat wave

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9703747/Texas-residents-say-temperature-smart-thermostats-raised-remotely.html

 

 

 

F that. I never read the fine print but I think I’d be smart

enough to figure that one out. 

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

1. Fuck that.

2. Lol at the guy thinking his baby is going to “overheat” in 78 degrees. 

[FartingMonk 3612]

Alright so I'm NERC RC certified.   A lot of friends are in the ERCOT business. ERCOT will only open their shit if shit is really about to go down.  The Texas freeze was not on ERCOT.  It was on the entire industry.  We had recommended to shut down every unit and activate LAARS.  The business group told us to pack sand.  But as far as energy went.  We were about 2kmw ahead until we weren't.  Nuclear which is usually super reliable tripped on false indicators.   Natty was good until the petro chemical plants shut down and shoved everything back to them.  Ops and Engineers across the board had said shut down and ride it out.  Business group overruled us.  If those ERCOT guys didn't pull the plug we would still be without power.  95 seconds to total grid failure 

[maninblack 7975]

Texas homes heat up as power companies alter smart thermostats

Spoiler

Texas homeowners have discovered their homes are getting warmer despite the use of air conditioning, with the discovery that energy companies are remotely adjusting the thermostat to higher temperatures with minimal warning.

Residents in Houston and surrounding areas have complained that their thermostats have been increasing in temperature, seemingly on their own. Rather than keeping the house cool, the thermostats have been remotely tampered with to operate at a warmer temperature.

In one example aired by WFAA, the English family of Deer Park discovered such a situation on Wednesday. Brandon English returned home that day to discover his wife and daughters had lowered the temperature at 2:30pm, but it had been changed while they had a nap.

The house had risen in temperature to 78 degrees, English said, and that his wife and kids "woke up sweating." He was concerned about his three-month-old daughter potentially dehydrating from the heat in the unbearably hot home.

Later, his wife received an alert advising their thermostat was changed remotely as part of a three-hour "energy-saving event."

It was determined that the family's thermostat was enrolled into a program called "Smart Savers Texas," operated by EnergyHub. As part of an agreement, EnergyHub could remotely control the thermostat during a period of high energy demand, in exchange for entry into sweepstakes.

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The changes occur during a period in the summer where homeowners are putting a strain on the power grid to keep their homes cool with air conditioning. On Wednesday, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas urged residents to raise their thermostats to reduce the strain on the power grid.

In a statement received by Gizmodo, EnergyHub said "During a demand response event, Smart Savers Texas increases the temperature on participating thermostats by up to four degrees to reduce energy consumption and relieve stress on the grid. Every participant actively agrees to the terms of the program and can opt-out of a demand response event at any time."

EnergyHub says it works with a number of smart thermostat vendors, including some that offer thermostats with HomeKit support. The list includes Ecobee, Honeywell, and Lux, as well as Google's Nest, which pledged support for the Apple-backed smart home protocol Matter in May, meaning HomeKit support for Nest thermostats is in development.

 

[freyguy 4366]

But I would have to enroll in something for this to start occurring, right?

[Reagan1k 3042]

3 hours ago, FartingMonk said:

If those ERCOT guys didn't pull the plug we would still be without power.  95 seconds to total grid failure 

Can you elaborate on this more please…. In layman’s terms? 

[maninblack 7975]

36 minutes ago, freyguy said:

But I would have to enroll in something for this to start occurring, right?

That's the way it sounds but what we don't know is if people are auto-enrolled or if people really know what they're checking. 

[Captainant 28424]

36 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

Can you elaborate on this more please…. In layman’s terms? 

This dude puts out a bunch of layman's explanations of engineering concepts and events. I thought his explainer was very understandable and it's only 16 minutes long

 

He's a good subscribe if you like this kinda thing, based out of New Braunfels too

[JimmyJames 12271]

49 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

Can you elaborate on this more please…. In layman’s terms? 

We were minutes away from having no power in Texas for months. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.khou.com/amp/article/news/local/texas/ercot-texas-power-grid-total-collapse-blackout/285-ae35263d-dfad-49b5-aa6b-26f12c3e1654

[AUS-97HORN 11997]

4 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

2. Lol at the guy thinking his baby is going to “overheat” in 78 degrees. 

totally agree at the lol on that... problem is the fucking article just gave that quote and didnt bother giving any proper editorial or medical counterpoint of SOMETHING telling the reader that no one is gonna fucking die if their house is at 78 (or even 80)  degrees.  

you get these idiot Karen's who read that article and suddenly they worry that if the temp hits 80 their children are somehow going to die in their home.  

[Js1 87050]

1 hour ago, freyguy said:

But I would have to enroll in something for this to start occurring, right?

 

46 minutes ago, maninblack said:

That's the way it sounds but what we don't know is if people are auto-enrolled or if people really know what they're checking. 

Ain’t nobody reads the fine print 

[The Dog 44798]

But I would have to enroll in something for this to start occurring, right?

Yeah - we were in a similar program with TXU about 10 years ago.

In that program they gave us the “smart” thermostat for free and we were enrolled in the program for a period of time (like 12-24 months or something.) After that you can leave the program and keep the thermostat for free. Leave earlier and you paid them back for the thermostat.

[Guest Lobo]

Obviously the current issues are attributable to the fact that the Texas sun in June is very unreliable.  I mean, I look up there sometimes and it's only up there blazing from 6:30-8:30p, just 14 hours a day of pure, unobstructed heat flow.  How the fuck can we rely on that?  Fucking renewable voodoo bullshit, that's what it is.  We're supposed to rely on something that heats up our climate to damn near 100 degrees every day for months on end?  You can't rely on something like that with some damn solar and celestial charts and a protractor!  Plus you got Mexico trying to steal our power grid and the Feds overstepping their bounds with Electric Socialism.  At least with the current leadership, we're always a couple minutes away from total grid paralysis and a few thousand dead elderly Texans.  That is what our way of life means here in Texas, alright?!?  Our freedom and energy is the envy of the nation! 

[Nivek 17370]

Yeah, we're coming up on 1/3rd of our existence being post-WWII.  Not sure what that means, except less reliable power supply in the most energy-rich state in human history.  Our ineptitude in this respect will be studied for generations much like how energy-rich Soviet Russia couldn't keep its own people warm.  Looks like we're gonna fuck up multiple seasons.  
I feel like Claire, wife of Bob at Bob's Country Bunker is talking to us:
"What kind of seasons do you usually fuck up here?"
"Oh, we fuck up both kids...Winter & Summer!" 

They could keep them warm, if they wanted to.

[Nivek 17370]

Alright so I'm NERC RC certified.   A lot of friends are in the ERCOT business. ERCOT will only open their shit if shit is really about to go down.  The Texas freeze was not on ERCOT.  It was on the entire industry.  We had recommended to shut down every unit and activate LAARS.  The business group told us to pack sand.  But as far as energy went.  We were about 2kmw ahead until we weren't.  Nuclear which is usually super reliable tripped on false indicators.   Natty was good until the petro chemical plants shut down and shoved everything back to them.  Ops and Engineers across the board had said shut down and ride it out.  Business group overruled us.  If those ERCOT guys didn't pull the plug we would still be without power.  95 seconds to total grid failure 

Why were we in this situation in the first place?

After the house started burning is not a good time to buy smoke detectors.

[FartingMonk 3612]

4 hours ago, Nivek said:

Why were we in this situation in the first place?

After the house started burning is not a good time to buy smoke detectors.

It all boils down to cost.  If you bought a car and the sales guy tried to upgrade your tires to snow tires for an extra 4k would you buy it?

[Deej 77685]

11 hours ago, Telegraph_it said:

F that. I never read the fine print but I think I’d be smart

enough to figure that one out. 

 

[Guest Lobo]

25 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

It all boils down to cost.  If you bought a car and the sales guy tried to upgrade your tires to snow tires for an extra 4k would you buy it?

No, but if the tires blew out on the way to work on an average day in June, I’d go back to the dealership and wheel the salesman’s desk chair under a hydraulic lift in the service department. 

[Captainant 28424]

36 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

It all boils down to cost.  If you bought a car and the sales guy tried to upgrade your tires to snow tires for an extra 4k would you buy it?

Lol like the issues with our grid weren't exposed, documented, and had mitigations proposed back in 2011. Which were ignored because it would've hurt next quarters profits. 

[Hagbard Celine 11178]

7 hours ago, The Dog said:

Yeah - we were in a similar program with TXU about 10 years ago.

In that program they gave us the “smart” thermostat for free and we were enrolled in the program for a period of time (like 12-24 months or something.) After that you can leave the program and keep the thermostat for free. Leave earlier and you paid them back for the thermostat.

this is the same reason i don't download apps on to my cell.

oh, and never signed up for facebook when it was clear in 2006 that it was going to be the world's largest opt-in surveillance engine that would infest your online presence for the rest of your life.

oh, and told the nest fuckers to pound sand when they sent kids door to door trying to pay me to put their facehugger control device on my hvac.

[Hagbard Celine 11178]

7 hours ago, Lobo said:

Obviously the current issues are attributable to the fact that the Texas sun in June is very unreliable.  I mean, I look up there sometimes and it's only up there blazing from 6:30-8:30p, just 14 hours a day of pure, unobstructed heat flow.  How the fuck can we rely on that?  Fucking renewable voodoo bullshit, that's what it is.  We're supposed to rely on something that heats up our climate to damn near 100 degrees every day for months on end?  You can't rely on something like that with some damn solar and celestial charts and a protractor!  Plus you got Mexico trying to steal our power grid and the Feds overstepping their bounds with Electric Socialism.  At least with the current leadership, we're always a couple minutes away from total grid paralysis and a few thousand dead elderly Texans.  That is what our way of life means here in Texas, alright?!?  Our freedom and energy is the envy of the nation! 

COMMUNIST WINDMILLS