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These Go to 11 - The Guitar Amp Thread


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5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I need some advice:  I've been asked to consult on a ground-up swiss army knife approach to a powered speaker that could function in multiple roles, those mostly being PA, guitar and bass.  Now, it's my opinion that those are three different animals, but modern signal processing has gotten way better in the last couple of decades, and it might be possible to build something that's pretty useful in live situations.  To some degree it is already being done, so question (a) would be for feedback on which brands/models are the "best" of these amps.  Cost is not necessarily a major concern there.

Question (b):  it seems highly unlikely that anything but a very specific few amps could be built in and controlled via traditional knobs and switches; say, PA, Ampeg B15 bass amp, and Marshall JCM 800 guitar amp.  That would be very limiting.  My mind rapidly goes to something that is at the very least controlled through a touch screen, and even more likely, controlled via an external controller (iPad, etc.).  I've seen the latter done for PA rigs that are actually mixed in the operator's hands, and it didn't seem to be an ergonomic nightmare.  Of course, don't lose the controller.  Do THESE options exist for guitar and bass rigs?  Would it bother you guitar/bass players to have to dial in your amp choice, change settings (volume, gain, EQ, reverb, etc.) this way?  Is it unreasonable in a live setting?

I don't want to get into the reasons why this product might be differentiated from what's already out there.  Suffice it to say, there would be differences.

 

I think these options are basically already out there with modelers. All the cover band brigade is already in on FRFR speakers and shit as we speak, it seems to me that the main thing on this would be software as these things are pretty siloed right now, ie. they just have say guitar settings on them. If you loaded it up with profiles for all the uses you outline I think you would be most of the way there.

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1 minute ago, G650 said:

I think these options are basically already out there with modelers. All the cover band brigade is already in on FRFR speakers and shit as we speak, it seems to me that the main thing on this would be software as these things are pretty siloed right now, ie. they just have say guitar settings on them. If you loaded it up with profiles for all the uses you outline I think you would be most of the way there.

Yeah I've seen plenty that seem way evolved beyond the early Line 6 shit (and by "shit" I mean "shit").  I should have been clear -- I am not expecting this product to break ground in the modeling/simulation world, the differentiation is elsewhere.  Can you point me to those products that are considered best in class?

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Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Yeah I've seen plenty that seem way evolved beyond the early Line 6 shit (and by "shit" I mean "shit").  I should have been clear -- I am not expecting this product to break ground in the modeling/simulation world, the differentiation is elsewhere.  Can you point me to those products that are considered best in class?

 

@Goredho probably has a better feel for that stuff than I do, but most I see with big pros are the Fractal AxeFX or the Kemper. Line 6 does make the Helix which I think is pretty popular too but probably a little more low end

 

If you want 100 watt Marshall advice, then I'm your guy.

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I think these options are basically already out there with modelers. All the cover band brigade is already in on FRFR speakers and shit as we speak, it seems to me that the main thing on this would be software as these things are pretty siloed right now, ie. they just have say guitar settings on them. If you loaded it up with profiles for all the uses you outline I think you would be most of the way there.

What is “FRFR”?
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2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I need some advice:  I've been asked to consult on a ground-up swiss army knife approach to a powered speaker that could function in multiple roles, those mostly being PA, guitar and bass.  Now, it's my opinion that those are three different animals, but modern signal processing has gotten way better in the last couple of decades, and it might be possible to build something that's pretty useful in live situations.  To some degree it is already being done, so question (a) would be for feedback on which brands/models are the "best" of these amps.  Cost is not necessarily a major concern there.

Question (b):  it seems highly unlikely that anything but a very specific few amps could be built in and controlled via traditional knobs and switches; say, PA, Ampeg B15 bass amp, and Marshall JCM 800 guitar amp.  That would be very limiting.  My mind rapidly goes to something that is at the very least controlled through a touch screen, and even more likely, controlled via an external controller (iPad, etc.).  I've seen the latter done for PA rigs that are actually mixed in the operator's hands, and it didn't seem to be an ergonomic nightmare.  Of course, don't lose the controller.  Do THESE options exist for guitar and bass rigs?  Would it bother you guitar/bass players to have to dial in your amp choice, change settings (volume, gain, EQ, reverb, etc.) this way?  Is it unreasonable in a live setting?

I don't want to get into the reasons why this product might be differentiated from what's already out there.  Suffice it to say, there would be differences.

Traveling today, but would look at Laney amps for role number one.  I have this one, and it’s great.  12” plus horn, 5 channels, fx loop, built in EQ and delay, line out to go to a PA if you need more reinforcement.  I’ve run guitars through it (acoustic w/preamp and electric w/modeler), bass (w/modeler/preamp), keyboard (straight), mics (XLR) and even iPhone for backing tracks with RCA inputs.  I’ve had a trio use this as the only amplification in a small bar/coffee shop setting.  It’s a great Swiss Army knife that’s basically a 5 channel PA, amp and full range speaker built into a 1x12 combo enclosure and is designed exactly for what you are describing.  Will see about answering B in a few.
 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AH150--laney-ah150-150w-12-inch-multi-input-combo-amp?mrkgadid=1000000&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gdsa&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=studio&recording&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=39700065017603469&lid=39700065017603469&ds_s_kwgid=58700007231540659&device=m&network=g&matchtype=&adpos=largenumber&locationid=9029128&creative=706902477314&targetid=aud-439454427786:dsa-1385849839650&campaignid=13710079600&awsearchcpc=1&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA4rK8BhD7ARIsAFe5LXJzyJO4stbVUOj_PMKGtIQpbxLH60dGjPDGxcg-l892ASy68exL2F0aAjHZEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
 

 

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10 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Traveling today, but would look at Laney amps for role number one.  I have this one, and it’s great.  12” plus horn, 5 channels, fx loop, built in EQ and delay, line out to go to a PA if you need more reinforcement.  I’ve run guitars through it (acoustic w/preamp and electric w/modeler), bass (w/modeler/preamp), keyboard (straight), mics (XLR) and even iPhone for backing tracks with RCA inputs.  I’ve had a trio use this as the only amplification in a small bar/coffee shop setting.  It’s a great Swiss Army knife that’s basically a 5 channel PA, amp and full range speaker built into a 1x12 combo enclosure and is designed exactly for what you are describing.  Will see about answering B in a few.

Thanks, I appreciate it.  If I wasn't clear, I'm not in the market, this is market research for a design project.  I want to know what's currently out there and what kind of limitations currently exist.

That said, would any of you have a problem controlling your amp from a tablet or phone?  I guess a linked footswitch would make that less intrusive on stage.

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19 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Thanks, I appreciate it.  If I wasn't clear, I'm not in the market, this is market research for a design project.  I want to know what's currently out there and what kind of limitations currently exist.

That said, would any of you have a problem controlling your amp from a tablet or phone?  I guess a linked footswitch would make that less intrusive on stage.

Gotcha.  So that Laney amp would be a direct market competitor for what you are investigating.  I would say it works great, but for guitars, you need that other thing that will emulate the guitar amp and cab, then the Laney or any such product just amplifies that with little to no colour.  A lot of people just use a PA.  I would look at the new Fender FR-10 as a competitor, but it’s just kind of marketing itself as FRFR for guitar amp modeling.

I use modelers live all the time.  I don’t use via laptop, phone or tablet.  I go for UAFX pedals and the Tonex One pedal.  I go for pedal-based hardware for a couple reasons.  First, a tablet feels fragile.  Knock it off a stand, there goes your gig.

Second is more logistic and how it incorporates it into a signal chain with pedals and all that.  I don’t want to connect tablet to interface, have stuff running from my feet to the interface on a stand, back down to crap at my feet, etc…. With it all being pedalboard based, it can all stay wired up.  I pull out the pedalboard, plug guitar into the first pedal in the chain, plug the last pedal into an FRFR speaker like the Laney and then go.  I’m lazy like that.

A new product that could mitigate those issues would be interesting.  I would look into the speaker cabinet providing a docking station for your phone so the phone physically becomes one with the speaker/cabinet, then have a traditional amp fx loop in the back so you can connect it with a pedalboard like you would a normal tube amp.  The phone would provide the DSP brain with whatever software you provide.  You also might want to provide an impulse response loader in the speaker cabinet to provide speaker sounds so that doesn’t need to draw from the phone.

Edited by Goredho
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5 minutes ago, Goredho said:

A new product that could mitigate those issues would be interesting.  I would look into the speaker cabinet providing a docking station for your phone so the phone physically becomes one with the speaker/cabinet, then have a traditional amp fx loop in the back so you can connect it with a pedalboard like you would a normal tube amp.  The phone would provide the DSP brain with whatever software you provide.  You also might want to provide an impulse response loader in the speaker cabinet to provide speaker sounds so that doesn’t need to draw from the phone.

Thank you very much, all of these are ideas worthy of consideration.  In "PA mode", the docking station etc. just doesn't get used.

There will be DSP in the cabinet, regardless, although that doesn't necessarily have to be the entire DSP processing power on tap.

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6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Thank you very much, all of these are ideas worthy of consideration.  In "PA mode", the docking station etc. just doesn't get used.

There will be DSP in the cabinet, regardless, although that doesn't necessarily have to be the entire DSP processing power on tap.

Cool.  I would look at the Positive Grid Spark, too.  It’s a pretty great product, but is pretty strictly in the “practice amp” space.  I couldn’t imagine using it at a gig, but it’s primarily controlled via phone app and they’ve done a good job with app interface, etc…

if you could have something that combined the small gig versatility of the Laney I linked with the modeling/control/app of the Spark that had a docking station for your phone, I’d be very interested in the product.

PS I expect a prototype to beta test 😜

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1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Did I mention how long it can take to get a product to market?  Take whatever # you're thinking of and double it, minimum.  :)

 

Dude, have you seen my gear buying habits?  I’m as patient as a teenagers first orgasm.  Looking forward to playing it in 2 weeks!

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8 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I need some advice:  I've been asked to consult on a ground-up swiss army knife approach to a powered speaker that could function in multiple roles, those mostly being PA, guitar and bass.  Now, it's my opinion that those are three different animals, but modern signal processing has gotten way better in the last couple of decades, and it might be possible to build something that's pretty useful in live situations.  To some degree it is already being done, so question (a) would be for feedback on which brands/models are the "best" of these amps.  Cost is not necessarily a major concern there.

Question (b):  it seems highly unlikely that anything but a very specific few amps could be built in and controlled via traditional knobs and switches; say, PA, Ampeg B15 bass amp, and Marshall JCM 800 guitar amp.  That would be very limiting.  My mind rapidly goes to something that is at the very least controlled through a touch screen, and even more likely, controlled via an external controller (iPad, etc.).  I've seen the latter done for PA rigs that are actually mixed in the operator's hands, and it didn't seem to be an ergonomic nightmare.  Of course, don't lose the controller.  Do THESE options exist for guitar and bass rigs?  Would it bother you guitar/bass players to have to dial in your amp choice, change settings (volume, gain, EQ, reverb, etc.) this way?  Is it unreasonable in a live setting?

I don't want to get into the reasons why this product might be differentiated from what's already out there.  Suffice it to say, there would be differences.

The Fender 400PS should be the starting point. :)

 

Fender_400_PS_-_Front_iqqz2l.jpg

 

Or the PA100

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Edited by dcbc
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If I wanted something that could be a guitar amp, bass amp, and a pa I’d build a modeler into the EV Evolve series…Tower line array PA with a sub. Mixer is accomplished via an iPad app hooked in through Bluetooth. Sound is fantastic. Seems like it shouldn’t be that hard to add modeling capability, and controlled by the app.

https://products.electrovoice.com/na/en/evolve/

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6 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

I guess I don’t really follow the question or that response correctly then

I may have misunderstood your response -- this is not an incremental improvement on an existing product, this is a new product from a new (ish) company with some compelling loudspeaker IP.

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