Chicago cops murder 13 year old point blank

[Message Board User 12395]

Oh man...

 

[staboner 4984]

popcorn.bernard.gif

[Brisketexan 105183]

God.  Fucking.  Dammit.  Doesn't matter what went down before.  When a cop tells you show me your fucking hands, and you do.....you shouldn't get shot.

Not what we need now.  Not at all.  But exactly what we're going to get.

[MoJames 8244]

[wildcat09 29360]

It would be a morally good act to burn every CPD precinct and the prosecutor’s office to the ground.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I’d like to see the cops go without access to bullets for the remainder of my life.  Yes, a few cops may die but it’s better than this shit. 

[Brisketexan 105183]

13 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

It would be a morally good act to burn every CPD precinct and the prosecutor’s office to the ground.

I'm interested in hearing more about the prosecutor's statements made at the time, that he "had a gun."  Yes, it appears he had one before, but he tossed it, and did not have it when he was shot....with his hands up, as the officer commanded.  I'm interested to know on what basis the prosecutor made the initial statements.

[Herpa Derpa 6126]

46 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm interested in hearing more about the prosecutor's statements made at the time, that he "had a gun."  Yes, it appears he had one before, but he tossed it, and did not have it when he was shot....with his hands up, as the officer commanded.  I'm interested to know on what basis the prosecutor made the initial statements.

 “During a bond hearing for 21-year-old Ruben Roman, who was with Adam the night of the shooting, Cook County Assistant State’s Attorney James Murphy described the altercation in a proffer: ‘The officer tells [Toledo] to drop it as [Toledo] turns towards the officer.  [Toledo] has a gun in his right hand.’” The WGN report came with the new information that the state’s attorney’s office said that the statement was made in error. This is what they actually said:

“An attorney who works in this office failed to fully inform himself before speaking in court.”  

 

The entire description by police and prosecutors was a lie. Bodycam shows a 13 year old obeying the officers orders, turning around, putting his hands up, and being shot point blank in the chest.  Chicago gonna have another great fire if this shit keeps up.

[immortal13 4059]

That video...Jesus fucking christ

[Herpa Derpa 6126]

https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states

Police Officer ranks as #22, behind such jobs as garbage collector, delivery driver, and farmers. The statement that a cop puts his life on the line every day he shows up for work is just not true. It's not that dangerous of a job unless it's made into one by the police themselves. Failing to treat citizens with respect, failing to follow protocol, failing to hold their peers accountable, failing to not act aggressively in a tense situation. These are things that make a cop's job dangerous. Ask yourself the next time you see a vehicle pulled over why there are 3-4 or more patrol cars there.  It's nothing more than an intimidation tactic and show of force. For someone who ran a stop sign. Don't want me to view you as an enemy to the people? Then stop acting like one.

[Sandman 3405]

7 minutes ago, Herpa Derpa said:

Ask yourself the next time you see a vehicle pulled over why there are 3-4 or more patrol cars there.

Usually, it's because they have fuck-all to do. Gotta look busy!

[thunderlounge 7894]

Chicago cops suck fucking balls. Have always been dirty, above the law types of fucks. Fry them. Fry them all. 

[clapclapclap 9000]

Watch the video in post #17 in real time, it appears to be less than a second between his dropping the gun and the officer firing.  It looks like he drops the gun on his right side, away from the officer and probably out of his view, and then turns while raising his hands.  It's easy to see how in a literal split second heat of the moment the officer could have missed seeing the gun dropped, and logically assumed he was raising the pistol while he turned.

Real people aren't as perfect as the Backseat Driving Bernards.

 

 

More context, especially 1:17 and 1:42+:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by clapclapclap

[clapclapclap 9000]

@immamac

This really should be split off into it's own thread.  It's completely different from last year's incident and is going to likely be a major story for awhile, for various reasons.

[Aqua Buddha 14599]

Watched the video and as much as I hate police shootings, this one is legit.  The kid had a weapon, was being chased by police, and then threw the weapon down 2 seconds before he was shot.  He was not "unarmed."

Why is a 13 year old kid doing running around in the middle of the night with a gun?

[burntorangebongos 10750]

It is a close call. The cop went with better safe than sorry since he didn't know what he had in his hand and shot.

I think if the kid had not turned around but kept his back to him with his hands up and empty, the cop wouldn't have shot.

Just freeze and throw up your hands and keep your back to a cop is what they ought to teach young peeps of color. 

[SarkAfterDark 1693]

13 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Watched the video and as much as I hate police shootings, this one is legit.  The kid had a weapon, was being chased by police, and then threw the weapon down 2 seconds before he was shot.  He was not "unarmed."

Why is a 13 year old kid doing running around in the middle of the night with a gun?

Hmm threw down the weapon 2 seconds before he was shot but he wasn't "unarmed"? Followed the instructions the cop gave him and the cop still shot him. So what exactly was the kid supposed to do here? Drop the weapon? Put his hands up? No? Then what? And whatever crime he committed doesn't mean he gets to be executed on the street. Its beyond me how some of you still don't get that. 

[Huckleberry 33045]

32 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

Watch the video in post #17 in real time, it appears to be less than a second between his dropping the gun and the officer firing.  It looks like he drops the gun on his right side, away from the officer and probably out of his view, and then turns while raising his hands.  It's easy to see how in a literal split second heat of the moment the officer could have missed seeing the gun dropped, and logically assumed he was raising the pistol while he turned.

Real people aren't as perfect as the Backseat Driving Bernards.

This is a terrible take. When you are aiming a firearm at a human being and you tell that human being "turn around and show me your hands" and then that human being follows your instructions exactly as you gave them, you shouldn't shoot that person in the chest.

The officer instructed the suspect to turn around and show his hands. That is instructing a person who you're concerned might have a weapon to turn around, face you, and start raising their hand. It's a stupid thing to do and is the reason why the tragedy happened. It's basically asking the person to set themselves up to get shot. I'm absolutely not sure what CPD protocol is but I've seen enough videos to know that instructions to freeze, lie down on the ground, and put your hands behind your back don't just happen in the movies.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, immortal13 said:

That video...Jesus fucking christ

I couldn't watch it .

[Gatorubet 30274]

Chicago cops suck fucking balls. Have always been dirty, above the law types of fucks. Fry them. Fry them all. 

So - as a segue - saw ‘The Trial of The Chicago 7’ on Netflix last night. It was great.

Sacha Baron-Cohen and Frank Langella were especially good.

[Helobious 9464]

48 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Watched the video and as much as I hate police shootings, this one is legit.  The kid had a weapon, was being chased by police, and then threw the weapon down 2 seconds before he was shot.  He was not "unarmed."

Why is a 13 year old kid doing running around in the middle of the night with a gun?

I mean he was unarmed at the moment of shooting. He (eventually) did exactly what the cop told him to do, it just sucks the cop gave him dumb instructions to basically whirl around while raising his arms. It was a very tough situation for the cop but I’d like to think they could be better than that. Looks like at the very least a fireable offense, not sure if it’s criminal though. 
 

And what bubble do you live in? Lots of kids have fucked up lives. I knew 11-12 year olds at my middle school that were in gangs and dealing drugs, or basically raising themselves. Nothing new there.

[Parliament 14275]

Cop made a huge mistake of course, but I don't see a crime here.


ETA
This is the whole body cam vid. It's a bit graphic.

[tchookem 3905]

Cop made a huge mistake of course, but I don't see a crime here.

I'm not sure how making a mistake that ends a person's life isn't a crime. I understand arguing degrees of crime, but if you end a person's life and it isn't self defense... it's a crime.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I’m sorry but the 13 year old was clearly exercising his 2nd amendment rights and was killed for it after following police instructions.  Fuck that lying cop and anyone defending him. 

[hookemATL 11804]

35 minutes ago, tchookem said:

44 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Cop made a huge mistake of course, but I don't see a crime here.

I'm not sure how making a mistake that ends a person's life isn't a crime. I understand arguing degrees of crime, but if you end a person's life and it isn't self defense... it's a crime.

 

FAC

[Leeroy Jenkins 2409]

18 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m sorry but the 13 year old was clearly exercising his 2nd amendment rights and was killed for it after following police instructions.  Fuck that lying cop and anyone defending him. 

How is the cop lying?  
 

This is not the same as many of the other shootings.  From the body cam you can’t tell the kid tossed the gun.  All you can see is him turn and the arm starts coming up.  It sucks ass.  I don’t like it at all.

[Neonmoon 38130]

Huge caveat: We have a gun problem. Police need reform. Why does the kid have a gun? Why did the cop ask a kid with a gun to turn around and show me your hands and the shoot him when he does that? If he thought the kid had a gun, wouldn’t he expect the kid to turn around with it? So he was going to shoot anyway? So many questions. So much stupidity 

This is not cut and dry. He was responding to shots fired call. He sees a citizen with a gun. He chases said gun holder down the alley. The kid did have a gun. There is video evidence of the gun in his hand. The gun was a few feet away from the kid after he threw it. The officer didn’t see him throw it apparently. 

The whole situation is so fucked up 
 

 

 

[RollLeft 5045]

2 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

 

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As i've said in other threads unless a weapon is pulled out to aim at an officer or shots are fired by a perp no one deserves to have a gun aimed at them or fired at by an officer.  I didn't want to see this kid get shot.  He didn't deserve it based upon the video.    

What is happening at :35 - :55? Who shot the 8 rounds?  I assume that is what prompted the chase?  I have to assume the cop knew the kid was carrying otherwise he wouldn't have said drop it.  Are we to assume the cop assumed the kid shot the rounds?  If it was the pair it looks like the other guy took the shots and not the kid.  Terrible situation.  

Edited April 16, 2021 by RollLeft

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

8 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

How is the cop lying?  

My understanding was the cop reported the kid was holding a gun when he shot him.  If that’s not the case, then the error is mine.

We have dudes walking around with AR-15s in broad daylight and it’s no big deal, so the idea that this cop thought it necessary to fire on a 13 year old child because he MIGHT do something is just insane to me.   
 

See if you can spot the difference here.

 

The kid should have kept running, he might still be alive today. And yeah, the officer made a huge mistake but he should also face the consequences of that mistake like people who make mistakes often do. 

[ztejas 43524]

Does this mean we can address the rampant gun violence issue as a whole in Chicago now? Or are we still unwilling to do that?

[RollLeft 5045]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

 

Open carry in public is stupid.  

[Leeroy Jenkins 2409]

I am not defending anything.  The picture you posted with the hands up doesn’t bring in the context of time.  I can’t imagine being in the shoes of the officer when you saw a gun in the right hand but didn’t see it get tossed and then the body turns and the arm starts to come up.  That is a tough position to be in.  
 

I am not aware of the officer said that or not.  The family attorney kept pressing the narrative that there wasn’t a guy.  I think that has been clearly proven as false.  
 

Walking around with ARs is just stupid.  I don’t defend that shit at all.   I just feel that I can see why this cop shot.  To be honest I haven’t heard what is orders were.   Should it have just been hands up?   I would think that would be the best course of action.  

[TXSooner518 2438]

1 minute ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

I am not defending anything.  The picture you posted with the hands up doesn’t bring in the context of time.  I can’t imagine being in the shoes of the officer when you saw a gun in the right hand but didn’t see it get tossed and then the body turns and the arm starts to come up.  That is a tough position to be in.  

THEN DON'T TELL HIM TO TURN AROUND AND PUT HIS HANDS UP.

[Brisketexan 105183]

THEN DON'T TELL HIM TO TURN AROUND AND PUT HIS HANDS UP.

That’s the breaking point. The cop issued a very specific order. The kid followed it, exactly. He follows the order. He shouldn’t have been shot.

Oh, and the issue of gun violence in Chicago, etc, is not an “either or” proposition. We can and should discuss and address that too. Feel free to start a thread on that topic if you want.

But this specific instance is its own specific case, with its own specific facts.

[fattyflattie 4638]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, and the issue of gun violence in Chicago, etc, is not an “either or” proposition. We can and should discuss and address that too. Feel free to start a thread on that topic if you want.

What?  The only people that can even start that thread don't think there's an issue.

[Helobious 9464]

28 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Does this mean we can address the rampant gun violence issue as a whole in Chicago now? Or are we still unwilling to do that?

Don’t pretend like you actually care about that. Nobody does.

[Brisketexan 105183]

What?  The only people that can even start that thread don't think there's an issue.

There’s been plenty of discussion about it. From Chicago being surrounded by places selling guns like hotcakes, to the running effects of horrible experiments in public housing, to a broken and corrupt police force, to families that have been in a cycle of violence for 4 generations....all kinds of bad shit. Nobody doesn’t think there’s an issue.

But when it is literally a meme - whenever any police, race, or gun issue comes up, it’s the same people parroting the EXACT conservative media “but what about Chicago!” logical fallacy. The people blaring that fallacy most certainly do not give the first fuck about “Chicago.”

[ztejas 43524]

25 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

That’s the breaking point. The cop issued a very specific order. The kid followed it, exactly. He follows the order. He shouldn’t have been shot.

Oh, and the issue of gun violence in Chicago, etc, is not an “either or” proposition. We can and should discuss and address that too. Feel free to start a thread on that topic if you want.

But this specific instance is its own specific case, with its own specific facts.

C'mon man. I don't start threads like that here and you know that. For good reason.

18 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Don’t pretend like you actually care about that. Nobody does.

I actually do. Unlike people that pretend to but actually don't. And I'm coming around on more stringent gun control as someone that's pretty traditionally conservative in that regard. I think it's a huge issue in this country and a lot of it should be avoidable. I watch that video and as terrible as it is to see a 13 year old shot and killed - I have to consider the cop's perspective of being on a bad beat in Chicago and winding up in a situation like this. Consider the environment and past happenings. Is that justification to shoot this kid? Probably not - but it's at least justification to fear for your life and act accordingly. We are talking about an area that has some of the highest gun violence rates in the world. This isn't George Floyd or Trayvon Martin - this is messy because we've let it become messy. And it's embarassing. That rung of society deserves better. 

[fattyflattie 4638]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

But when it is literally a meme - whenever any police, race, or gun issue comes up, it’s the same people parroting the EXACT conservative media “but what about Chicago!” logical fallacy. The people blaring that fallacy most certainly do not give the first fuck about “Chicago.”

Personally, I’d love it if we could fix the violence there, and several other cities including Houston’s recent rise in murder rates.  But forget about the 20-50 people who will be shot there over the next few weeks, let’s talk about banning suppressors and 15 round mags.  
 

Feel really bad for the kid and officer.  Officer made a split second decision, poorly, and has to live with that now.  Kid made an epically dumb decision, and won’t get a second chance.  So much stupidity to go around. Mind bottling. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The officer was scared for his life, from the child running away from him, as one usually is. 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Hugo Stiglitz

[ztejas 43524]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Huge caveat: We have a gun problem. Police need reform. Why does the kid have a gun? Why did the cop ask a kid with a gun to turn around and show me your hands and the shoot him when he does that? If he thought the kid had a gun, wouldn’t he expect the kid to turn around with it? So he was going to shoot anyway? So many questions. So much stupidity 

This is not cut and dry. He was responding to shots fired call. He sees a citizen with a gun. He chases said gun holder down the alley. The kid did have a gun. There is video evidence of the gun in his hand. The gun was a few feet away from the kid after he threw it. The officer didn’t see him throw it apparently. 

The whole situation is so fucked up 
 

 

 

Yeah... this^

[fattyflattie 4638]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The officer was scared for his life, from the child gun toting suspect running away from him, as one usually is. 

 

[Huckleberry 33045]

45 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

THEN DON'T TELL HIM TO TURN AROUND AND PUT HIS HANDS UP.

Exactly. The argument that it was a good shoot because he thought the kid had a gun in his hand and the kid turned around, faced the officers, and started raising his hand fails because, you know, the only reason the kid turned around, faced the officers and started raising his hand is because that's exactly what the officer instructed him to do.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The cops aren’t supposed to murder guilty people either.  

[immortal13 4059]

27 minutes ago, ztejas said:

C'mon man. I don't start threads like that here and you know that. For good reason.

I actually do. Unlike people that pretend to but actually don't. And I'm coming around on more stringent gun control as someone that's pretty traditionally conservative in that regard. I think it's a huge issue in this country and a lot of it should be avoidable. I watch that video and as terrible as it is to see a 13 year old shot and killed - I have to consider the cop's perspective of being on a bad beat in Chicago and winding up in a situation like this. Consider the environment and past happenings. Is that justification to shoot this kid? Probably not - but it's at least justification to fear for your life and act accordingly. We are talking about an area that has some of the highest gun violence rates in the world. This isn't George Floyd or Trayvon Martin - this is messy because we've let it become messy. And it's embarassing. That rung of society deserves better. 

How would stricter gun control prevented that kid from carrying? It's not as if he didn't know he was too young to legally carry a handgun.

[immortal13 4059]

26 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The officer was scared for his life, from the child running away from him, as one usually is. 

If you were chasing someone with a gun, you wouldn't be scared? No one on this forum thinks you're that big of a bad ass, not even your CR minions

[ztejas 43524]

19 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

How would stricter gun control prevented that kid from carrying? It's not as if he didn't know he was too young to legally carry a handgun.

Your politics are getting in the way of my discourse. 

@immortal13 and I think you're a good guy and not trying to dismiss what you're saying - but dig a little deeper and I think you might find we are coming from a similar place.

Edited April 16, 2021 by ztejas

[Henry Hill 3156]

So many questions with this case but the compliance with the exact order given and subsequent shot fired is especially awful. Damn.

[LABEVO 928]

 

[immortal13 4059]

13 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Your politics are getting in the way of my discourse. 

@immortal13 and I think you're a good guy and not trying to dismiss what you're saying - but dig a little deeper and I think you might find we are coming from a similar place.

Oh I took no offense, man. Just had that question pop into my head when I read your post. Would any type of new control legislation have prevented this kid from packing that gun around and hence prevented this tragic incident? 

And yes it's essentially a rhetorical question because we all already know the answer.