Chicago cops murder 13 year old point blank

[52-80 19206]

47 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Reading an article the other day that said the 2.5 number (by percentage that makes a black person more likely to be shot) corresponds almost entirely to race/poverty statistics. I don’t think it’s any surprise that poor people are policed more than affluent people. 
maybe we need to just have less interactions period, and the problem isn’t the nature of the interactions but the total number. 

ding ding ding ding ding.  the strongest and most obvious link to all of this, but it's not as fashionable as stoking up racial discord. 

39 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Why do you think black people make up a disproportionate percentage of poor people in America?

you can have 10s and 100s of speculative answers to this, and they can be totally legitimate and deserving of their own thread. 

but the answer ISNT because police officers are shooting all the ones on their way to being rich.

[52-80 19206]

18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm not disagreeing that your suggestion would have been the better course.  I'm just suggesting to you that in the normal, human context, if someone says "show me your hands," you instinctively show your palms....which generally requires that you be facing the person.  Give me an order at gunpoint, and instinct will almost certainly drive my response.

in normal, human context, my instinct tells me i shouldnt be out shooting guns on the streets at 3am, but sure let's scrutinize whether a command for showing hands is really asking for the palms or not.

[wildcat09 29360]

25 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Slavery, de jure segregation followed by de facto segregation with a mixture  of the destruction of the nuclear family and a lack of introduction, for most people, into the club whereby we get many/most of our opportunities, with a pinch of counter culture standoffishness?  
I mean- I’m sure there’s plenty of other stuff too, but that can be a pretty solid start. 

So you acknowledge that racism has played a big part. If racism played a big part in why black people are so disproportionately poor, you can't really say that discrimination against the poor is not itself racist. We're not really talking about two separate things any more, they've been mixed together for so long and so thoroughly that it's become something else.

[wildcat09 29360]

8 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

ding ding ding ding ding.  the strongest and most obvious link to all of this, but it's not as fashionable as stoking up racial discord. 

you can have 10s and 100s of speculative answers to this, and they can be totally legitimate and deserving of their own thread. 

but the answer ISNT because police officers are shooting all the ones on their way to being rich.

You're right, historically police practice has been to let white mobs burn black homeowners' houses down.

[Wulaw Horn 19140]

22 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'm not following the whole show your palms thing. He says let me see your hands, and my back is to him, I for damn sure am not going to turn around. I'm going to comply as quickly, and smoothly as I can with my hands up, and fingers spread.  If I'm facing him sure my hands may be palm up, but with my back to him I don't want to give any reason to think I'm making a move against him.

Yeah but you are thinking about it from behind your computer while fucking around at work or on your cell phone while taking a shit.  Human nature is to turn and face the person and show them your palms.  You are making split second decisions here.   Standard call should probably be- on the ground, and then from there hands behind your head.  

[Wulaw Horn 19140]

6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

So you acknowledge that racism has played a big part. If racism played a big part in why black people are so disproportionately poor, you can't really say that discrimination against the poor is not itself racist. We're not really talking about two separate things any more, they've been mixed together for so long and so thoroughly that it's become something else.

I don't think one necessarily follows the other.  Trailer parks in polk county are going to be policed more than the areas around Lake Livingston.  Cops are going to hang out by the dive bar more than they are outside the country club.  There you are talking about things outside of race.  I would venture to guess that police presence is always most active "on the wrong side of the tracks" even in areas that doesn't have a racial connotation.  

But my point goes to the actions of the individual officers shooting black people not being motivated by racism  Black cops shoot black people. Hispanic cops shoot hispanics.  White cops shoot whites.  I don't think the actual shootings are likely to be racially biased- I think it's just a numbers game based upon interactions.  Like - 1 in 1,000,000 interactions with cops are likely going to end with a questionable shoot, and that's if it's 1,000,000 with White, black, yellow or brown.  I'm guessing if you did the percentage of bad/questionable shoots by percentage of interactions it'd remove most of the race from the deal.  Then- you have a question about do we want to have interactions disproportionately with people of color.  And that's a harder question than you might think- as people within those minority majority communities that are law abiding do not want to see police leave their neighborhoods.

I think, this summer, I saw that the polling amongst AA showed that they wanted more cops not less in their neighborhood, with the group saying it was "about right" in 3rd place.  But it was pretty much like 35, 33, 32 or something like that with the percentages. 

Which- when you look at that data, again goes to "no easy fix".  Is disarming police in minority majority neighborhoods going to lead to more crime?  Maybe.  Is less interactions or pretext stops going to lead to more crime in those neighborhoods?  Maybe.  
If cops stop pulling people over on the road ways will that lead to more traffic fatalities?  Maybe.  I say maybe because we've never really tried it another way. Lets have some pilot programs where we try it that way and see what happens. Maybe there is a better way.  I suspect probably not- and the 1 in 1,000,000 type outcomes just aren't fixable, b/c if you stack enough shit up something wild is bound to happen.  But that's just a guess. I don't know the answer to that and neither does anyone else.   

[Captainant 27694]

39 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

You're right, historically police practice has been to let white mobs burn black homeowners' houses down.

Shit, sometimes they even get in on the fun

[52-80 19206]

47 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

So you acknowledge that racism has played a big part. If racism played a big part in why black people are so disproportionately poor, you can't really say that discrimination against the poor is not itself racist. We're not really talking about two separate things any more, they've been mixed together for so long and so thoroughly that it's become something else.

Okay, let's go with that:

(1) Police are patrolling poorer areas with higher occurrences of crime. 

(2) Given race-blind crime-based policing, the # of arrests are in proportion to the population living in those areas. 

(3) This is all due to long-seeded multi-generational racism.  [your assertion, in bold]

Let's go with all of that. 

Is there something actionable here that you propose?  Stop patrolling poor areas?

[52-80 19206]

41 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

But my point goes to the actions of the individual officers shooting black people not being motivated by racism  Black cops shoot black people. Hispanic cops shoot hispanics.  White cops shoot whites.  I don't think the actual shootings are likely to be racially biased- I think it's just a numbers game based upon interactions.  Like - 1 in 1,000,000 interactions with cops are likely going to end with a questionable shoot, and that's if it's 1,000,000 with White, black, yellow or brown.  I'm guessing if you did the percentage of bad/questionable shoots by percentage of interactions it'd remove most of the race from the deal.

We have a multi-year race-based dataset from the Dallas PD in this thread.  (Anybody with a larger dataset feel free to share it).

It records # of resistive/antagonistic encounters as filed by police.  We assume the recordings are NOT under-reported because:

(1) police need to record the antagonism to JUSTIFY their own response

(2) the common anti-police narrative that police exaggerate the theat to themselves.

 

The data shows that all cops of all colors record % antagonistic encounters against arrestees of all colors in identical equal proportion:  2:1:1 vs Black:White:Hispanic

Are white cops more biased against blacks (or any other color), compared to asian and hispanic cops?  No. 

Or is it that white and asian and hispanic cops are coincidentally biased against black at the same rate?  (LOL). 

 

Let's see somebody explain those numbers.

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Why do you think black people make up a disproportionate percentage of poor people in America?

The world may never know

[Poe It Up 126]

16 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

The world may never know

This. I saw a stat that 75% of black children are born into single parent homes. That is absolutely insane. 

[Incredulity 11679]

3 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

This. I saw a stat that 75% of black children are born into single parent homes. That is absolutely insane. 

....get with the program, math is racist.

[Guest Lobo]

I wonder what percentage of those absentee fathers are incarcerated or, due to previous jail time, were shut out of the child's life.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

7 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I wonder what percentage of those absentee fathers are incarcerated or, due to previous jail time, were shut out of the child's life.  

Only about 2 percent of black males are in prison, so probably not all that many.  And you don't get shut out of a child's life for doing time unless a court determines it is in the best interest of the child.

Good dads tend to avoid committing felonies that would land them in prison.

[Wulaw Horn 19140]

33 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

The world may never know

I said that this was part of why black people were poor. That doesn't negate the other points I made on legacy of systematic racism and later, defacto racism. It's both and, and prior policy can have a large role in having created all that. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yeah but you are thinking about it from behind your computer while fucking around at work or on your cell phone while taking a shit.  Human nature is to turn and face the person and show them your palms.  You are making split second decisions here.   Standard call should probably be- on the ground, and then from there hands behind your head.  

I know, and I say my back is to the man, and he says let me see your hands, they're going up, and out with spread fingers, but I'm not a 13 yr old kid either.  I'm Making as a few moves as possible.  That way I might not piss my pants.

[BabaYaga 15302]

32 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

That way I might not piss my pants.

[workswithseed 2109]

On 4/18/2021 at 9:32 AM, Brisketexan said:

What part of “shall not be infringed” do you not understand?

Exactly, now if he didn't fire those shots, then he'd be alive today otherwise sure. It's not like Chicago some bastion of 2nd amendment advocates, it'd be cool if they could open up to more than the one percent. 

[BrazilHorn 6624]

3 hours ago, Lobo said:

I wonder what percentage of those absentee fathers are incarcerated or, due to previous jail time, were shut out of the child's life.  

I think of the kids since 2015 - ~90% of them were from Gary Johnson when he played Juco/UT.

[Deej 76861]

5 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

This. I saw a stat that 75% of black children are born into single parent homes. That is absolutely insane. 

A lot of that falls on Shawn Kemp.

[fattyflattie 4638]

7 hours ago, Lobo said:

I wonder what percentage of those absentee fathers are incarcerated or, due to previous jail time, were shut out of the child's life.  

Surely most innocent, framed, and then falsely imprisoned by a racist system. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Surely most innocent, framed, and then falsely imprisoned by a racist system. 

Is this where we discuss how draconian crack cocaine penalties were instituted at the insistence and support of the congressional black caucus?

It was the black communities that were being ravaged by crack cocaine abuse and related violence.  

[fattyflattie 4638]

13 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Is this where we discuss how draconian crack cocaine penalties were instituted at the insistence and support of the congressional black caucus?

It was the black communities that were being ravaged by crack cocaine abuse and related violence.  

Yeah and there’s some truth to all that. But here’s the deal. Don’t do crack, and you won’t go to jail.  Even if the law is unfair and stacked against you, there’s one sure fire way.  

[workswithseed 2109]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Yeah and there’s some truth to all that. But here’s the deal. Don’t do crack, and you won’t go to jail.  Even if the law is unfair and stacked against you, there’s one sure fire way.  

Seems like the people who says "fuck around and find out" are sad that they are finding out 

Edited April 20, 2021 by workswithseed

[WhatTheBuck 28794]

On 4/19/2021 at 3:46 PM, Wulaw Horn said:

I said that this was part of why black people were poor.

Want to know how to spot a racist? They say shit like that. 

[Wulaw Horn 19140]

4 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Want to know how to spot a racist? They say shit like that. 

It’s part of why anyone that lives in a single parent family is likely to be poor. It’s not racism it’s literally math. 
And, I was responding tho Johnny who posted the graph on single family as “the reason for it all” seemingly blaming the black community in its entirety, when my point is that it’s more nuanced than that, and decisions, laws and actions going back to the foundation of this country have led to that happening. 
but please, completely ignore the entire context of what I said, ignore the fact that what you picked out and quoted was an argument against what Johnny was saying and me pushing back in what I read as his assigning

all the blame to the community (while also acknowledging the math) pull a couple words out and call me essentially the most vile name in modern America. Well done. A tour de force of disengenuousness and/or poor reading comprehension. 

[Lat22 4015]

He pulled a gun.  End of story.

[fattyflattie 4638]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Well done. A tour de force of disengenuousness and/or poor reading comprehension. 

You expected something different?

[Wulaw Horn 19140]

6 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

You expected something different?

No. But pointing it out where it exists. He also makes clownish arguments against faith constantly. Maybe the most intellectually dishonest poster on this site. 
there’s tons of people I disagree with who I think have a shitty point of view on life, or aren’t particularly thoughtful, or just because, but I don’t think any of them are anywhere close to his level of intellectual cowardice/dishonesty.