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Mare of Easttown

TwiceHorn

By TwiceHorn
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C-Man

C-Man 27286

Posted
Posted
gonna need everyone's guess about the contents of the pic before the finale.  i haven't a clue.  need to think on it.

Was it a pic or just a page she ripped out of the diary? My guess it somehow shows that John/Billy/Frank is the father of Erin’s child.

Up until last night, I was convinced Guy Pearce was somehow wrapped up in this. I just hope whatever the conclusion is, it’s not something completely out of left field just to surprise us. It’s been too good to this point to resort to that. It would spoil it IMO.

At any rate, based on the finale previews, the story doesn’t end at the fishing cabin with Mare/John/Billy.
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Vito Andolini

Vito Andolini 9135

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It could be an ultrasound photo with “Parents: Erin McMenamin/John Ross” (or Billy) printed on it.

Back to the theories for a second. Outside the scope of the story, from an entertainment business standpoint, and this is admittedly a rather silly take from someone who’s been in the media business for decades, I’ve always been thrown by Julianne Nicholson being so high on the cast list*. I swear she was #2 right behind Winslett earlier, but she’s now #3 behind Smart. It’s not a giant role, and she’s not a big star, so my cynical brain is now considering Lori Ross as the shooter. I haven’t looked back to see if there are any gaping plot holes with that theory. But if Lori discovered John knocked up Erin, it would provide a motive.

Also, the attic? The one “no one ever goes to anymore?” I’ll bet that’s where Dad’s old gun is kept, and Siobhan has no problem going up there. Mare would never know it’s missing. (I still think Siobhan has a very dark side, and won’t be surprised if she has footage of her brother, swinging from the rafters, on those computer files. Mare discovers those one day after Siobhan has left for college in LA... just as a series of murders break out there! She goes to find her daughter in S2, Mare of  Los Angeles!)

*I was going to say “Call Sheet,” but that can vary depending on the day. But it will absolutely rank the importance of a star to the production.

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utxmike05

utxmike05 1828

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Reddits provided that pic and have all kinds of theories on what they see lol

From what I read people think:  Main person is John or Frank and they see a woman lying in background.  Someone is kissing a pregnant belly.  Someone is going to eat a hot dog.  Some also think it is Mare's son, or Ryan.

I kinda see someone taking a selfie...likely Erin because the selfie taker usually would print and keep the photo.  And someone is asleep or laying down in background unaware of the photo.  Not sure if a baby is involved.  It could have been taken at reunion when John or whomever was passed out.  

I dont think a baby would be in a picture with Erin and John...then why would she make Dylan think the kid is his this whole time?

 

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Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey 12659

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if Siobhan is the killer, it must mean that her dead brother Kevin is the father of the baby.  what else would connect Siobhan to Erin in some emotional way?  there's nothing suggesting they were friends.  not sure how the timeline works, but Kevin could have gotten Erin pregnant before he committed suicide.

if that's the case, then Mare would be DJ's grandma.  Mare is gonna lose her grandson Drew to Carrie.  but what if she gains DJ as a grandson and raises him?  DJ doesn't have any other family.  her grandpa Kenny is in prison.  grandma McMenamin is dead.  Erin has no siblings.

why would Siobhan kill Erin?  Siobhan helped her when Erin got catfished.  what could cause her to snap and kill Erin a few hours later?  well, we know Siobhan can act irrationally when she takes her gummy.  and Siobhan must have known Kevin was Erin's baby daddy.  maybe Erin was refusing to tell Mare about it and wouldn't get any help from the Sheehans.

but then why does Billy have blood on him?  why would he confess to the murder?  i don't see how you get from Siobhan being the killer to Billy/John being involved in moving the body.

 

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Vito Andolini

Vito Andolini 9135

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Spoiler

The bullet was from an old school police pistol. The preview showed them opening up Mare’s dad’s gun case. That gun was the likely murder weapon. How did it get involved? That’s why I have a strong suspicion Siobhan is involved somehow,. Someone with knowledge of the gun had to bring it to the murder scene. I also just get a suspicious vibe from her. 

 

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utxmike05

utxmike05 1828

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Posted (edited)

Just too far fetched for Sio to be the killer.  Acting pretty normal and hasn't appeared weird/guilty for someone who murdered a young mother. And all while living under the same roof as the detective trying to crack the case. And even if Sio did it on accident she would have confessed by now.  Nah..she aint cold blooded like that.  Unless she is some super low key sociopath..

Sio is just there for the emotional family factor for Mare/Kevin memory.

 

Edited by utxmike05
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deech

deech 2297

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Here's my best, last thought.  It was Lori.  

1.  John is the father.   Erin wanted her best life for her child so she blamed the dumbfuck kid who had rich parents because she felt they would always pay and she was sleeping with him at time.  That's better than her uncle going to jail for stat rape and the incest.  When the kid is in on the catfish and assault, she's done with this bullshit as she just wants her kids ear surgery and threatens to out John (which Lori hears).

2.  Confrontation at park where John, Billy, and Lori are - Lori pulls out gun.  Billy tries to wrestle it from her, but it goes off killing Erin or Lori just flat kills her.  

3.  If you go back and watch John's last conversation with Lori he talks to her about doing things for the family and asks her whether she can lie to Mare for the good of the family.  This conversation makes a lot more sense if Lori shot Erin and John is going to kill Billy to help cover it up.

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utxmike05

utxmike05 1828

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Yea Lori is on my radar too.

So in that scene where Mare, Lori, John, Billy are drinking in the living room...wasn't it John and/or Lori that brought up the topic of Erin staying with Billy after her mom passed?? Why would they give that kind of clue to Mare and put Billy on the spot like that?  Were they trying to setup the sacrifice of Billy....?

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bschoolprof

bschoolprof 6273

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38 minutes ago, deech said:

Here's my best, last thought.  It was Lori.  

1.  John is the father.   Erin wanted her best life for her child so she blamed the dumbfuck kid who had rich parents because she felt they would always pay and she was sleeping with him at time.  That's better than her uncle going to jail for stat rape and the incest.  When the kid is in on the catfish and assault, she's done with this bullshit as she just wants her kids ear surgery and threatens to out John (which Lori hears).

2.  Confrontation at park where John, Billy, and Lori are - Lori pulls out gun.  Billy tries to wrestle it from her, but it goes off killing Erin or Lori just flat kills her.  

3.  If you go back and watch John's last conversation with Lori he talks to her about doing things for the family and asks her whether she can lie to Mare for the good of the family.  This conversation makes a lot more sense if Lori shot Erin and John is going to kill Billy to help cover it up.

Why would she then ask John in the last episode about the family reunion and if anything happened to Erin?  Under your scenario, she would already know this.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29197

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if they go with significant twist, it's lori, because john is the father and clearly can't keep his dick in his pants and she's tired of it.  if they go with a ~medium twist, it's john but his simpleton brother confesses and john gets away with it (the fredo/staged suicide mentioned are all possibilities).

i said originally that this would be one of those conclusions where a bunch of people interacted with erin and the killer that night, but only one person was behind it.  the priest was involved, but doesn't look like the killer.  siobhan was involved (maybe she got the gun) but i don't think she did it.  i know she's 17, but i don't love what they did with her character.  she dumps her girl for being a sloppy high, and then shows her own psycho side after playing it cool with a college chick.  doesn't square to me, but whatever.

they're certainly setting the picture up to tell the tale, or at least what they want the viewer to think the tale is.  i think it'll tell us who the father is, in some way or another.  i also said from the very beginning that whomever the father is should be the lead suspect, so whenever they realized it wasn't dylan, they really should've tried harder to figure that shit out.  if the story is that she only started hooking after she had a kid, her list of possible partners couldn't have been that extensive.

also the journal thing kinda bugs me.  they made them out to be something, and she lied about where they were so they could get to them and destroy them, which makes me think there better be some shit in the actual journals, and not make it just about the photo.  dylan certainly wanted them destroyed and he knew nothing of the photo.  maybe he's the pimp and she kept track of her johns in the journal.  who knows.  dylan's part is the one i can't make sense of, because he obviously thought he was the father.

should be a good finale, and i'm sure someone on here has predicted the ending almost exactly, so we'll wait and see.  i hope they don't spend more than ~10 min or so reenacting that night, because you know that's going to be part of it.

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Vito Andolini

Vito Andolini 9135

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22 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Why would she then ask John in the last episode about the family reunion and if anything happened to Erin?  Under your scenario, she would already know this.

I’d be way more on board with “Lori did it” as well, but things like this don’t square, along with telling Mare the bros went to the lake. I still think she could be the killer, as she would have motive if she knew about the baby being John’s, plus since I’m sure she practically lived at Mare’s house, she would probably know about the gun and could have pilfered it at some point.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29197

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the only thread possibly still left to pull is the "the kidnapper had a beard" account that the witness had.  obviously he's dead, but i think it would be strange for them to just ignore that in favor of, "yeah, he shaved".  i still think he had a partner and one of the idiot brothers was involved in his shit.  not sure how that overlaps with the erin murder, but it would be odd for it not to at all.

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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9856

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4 hours ago, Jive Turkey said:

if Siobhan is the killer, it must mean that her dead brother Kevin is the father of the baby.  what else would connect Siobhan to Erin in some emotional way?  there's nothing suggesting they were friends.  not sure how the timeline works, but Kevin could have gotten Erin pregnant before he committed suicide.

if that's the case, then Mare would be DJ's grandma.  Mare is gonna lose her grandson Drew to Carrie.  but what if she gains DJ as a grandson and raises him?  DJ doesn't have any other family.  her grandpa Kenny is in prison.  grandma McMenamin is dead.  Erin has no siblings.

why would Siobhan kill Erin?  Siobhan helped her when Erin got catfished.  what could cause her to snap and kill Erin a few hours later?  well, we know Siobhan can act irrationally when she takes her gummy.  and Siobhan must have known Kevin was Erin's baby daddy.  maybe Erin was refusing to tell Mare about it and wouldn't get any help from the Sheehans.

but then why does Billy have blood on him?  why would he confess to the murder?  i don't see how you get from Siobhan being the killer to Billy/John being involved in moving the body.

 

Siobhan's dad was seen with Erin bringing her groceries.  Mare broke up his engagement when she confronted him in front of his entire family and demanded a paternity test.  There is some history.

One hole....if Mare's X did take the test and was not the father, the DNA would still show a family connection if it was his son Kevin or Brothers??  Has the test not come back yet? 

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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9856

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9 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

the only thread possibly still left to pull is the "the kidnapper had a beard" account that the witness had.  obviously he's dead, but i think it would be strange for them to just ignore that in favor of, "yeah, he shaved".  i still think he had a partner and one of the idiot brothers was involved in his shit.  not sure how that overlaps with the erin murder, but it would be odd for it not to at all.

going to have a flash back to Guy P shaving

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Vito Andolini

Vito Andolini 9135

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40 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Siobhan's dad was seen with Erin bringing her groceries.  Mare broke up his engagement when she confronted him in front of his entire family and demanded a paternity test.  There is some history.

One hole....if Mare's X did take the test and was not the father, the DNA would still show a family connection if it was his son Kevin or Brothers??  Has the test not come back yet? 

It’s been said the paternity test revealed Frank Sheehan is not the father. He then high fived Maury Povich and jumped up and down on the couch. 

But yeah, not sure how those things work, but there would certainly be a similar physiological profile for Frank and Kevin Sheehan, so I don’t think Kevin is the baby daddy.

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3933

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On 5/23/2021 at 10:41 PM, Reynolds Woodcock said:

So seems pretty clear that...

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John knocked Erin up, Billy killed her at John’s request, now John is going to off Billy before he confesses.

 

 

I think I'm there, except.....

Spoiler

John knocked her up.  Billy was involved with killing her (maybe couldn't follow thru for his brother?), hence the bloody clothes but either John is involved and can simply take advantage of his dimmer younger brother and is getting him to take the fall because he has no family or John was confirming with Billy he killed her ("I have to hear you say it"), Billy confirms but really is part of the cover up?  I think it's obvious Erin was either trying to blackmail the John or both Ross brothers for the cost of her son's surgery.  So who could known about the secret and been angry or leveraged enough to kill Erin.  I think 4 suspects:

First, John  and second, Billy.  These are the obvious suspects.  Third is Dylan.  Why is threatening the friend, Jess, and what does it mean they're all in it together?  Because they destroyed evidence together?  Or could it be he ended up stumbling upon Erin later that night after the woods and she tells him the truth of her son's parentage and he loses it?  Possible, but then why would the necklace be a big deal.  I think he knows more than he says but then why the Ross brother drama?  Maybe he was told and hired by Billy?  Then why would Jess help him?  I just don't think it's him.

Four, Ryan Ross.  If the show wants to go to a quiet, tertiary character who has been privy to sensitive information which would also anger him, it's Ryan.  It's known he saw his Dad with a woman.... yet again, as his Dad is a serial philanderer.  What if he saw his Dad with Erin and finally, after her murder, confronted his father about the affair?  Or he heard when Erin went to shakedown John for money and while angry with his father, doesn't want to crush him mother and have his father going to prison.  Could this be enough for him to kill his cousin?  Billy finds Ryan having killed Erin and is taking the fall for nephew as not to destroy his brother's family???  Hmmm.... 

Fifth, Lori Ross.  Doubtful as she doesn't seem nearly distracted enough but if she found out the secret somehow then maybe that could have led her down a dark path.  

I think it's probably John had the affair, Billy is involved in the murder somehow, and Dylan found out and was either bought off or became involved in the cover up.  But the Ryan Ross angle is interesting.

 

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Doc Sam Beckett

Doc Sam Beckett 5797

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1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Also, my guess is Billy is a black out drunk and only remembers what John told him about that night. Waking up with blood on his clothes and missing time, he would be easy to manipulate. 

Would also make sense why Billy jumped up and left his beer. Look dude, you've been pretty nails with your theories on this thread, but you also used a capital x to refer to Mare's ex. Not really sure what to think here

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3933

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On 5/26/2021 at 5:57 PM, Patrick Bateman said:

I think I'm there, except.....

  Hide contents

John knocked her up.  Billy was involved with killing her (maybe couldn't follow thru for his brother?), hence the bloody clothes but either John is involved and can simply take advantage of his dimmer younger brother and is getting him to take the fall because he has no family or John was confirming with Billy he killed her ("I have to hear you say it"), Billy confirms but really is part of the cover up?  I think it's obvious Erin was either trying to blackmail the John or both Ross brothers for the cost of her son's surgery.  So who could known about the secret and been angry or leveraged enough to kill Erin.  I think 4 suspects:

First, John  and second, Billy.  These are the obvious suspects.  Third is Dylan.  Why is threatening the friend, Jess, and what does it mean they're all in it together?  Because they destroyed evidence together?  Or could it be he ended up stumbling upon Erin later that night after the woods and she tells him the truth of her son's parentage and he loses it?  Possible, but then why would the necklace be a big deal.  I think he knows more than he says but then why the Ross brother drama?  Maybe he was told and hired by Billy?  Then why would Jess help him?  I just don't think it's him.

Four, Ryan Ross.  If the show wants to go to a quiet, tertiary character who has been privy to sensitive information which would also anger him, it's Ryan.  It's known he saw his Dad with a woman.... yet again, as his Dad is a serial philanderer.  What if he saw his Dad with Erin and finally, after her murder, confronted his father about the affair?  Or he heard when Erin went to shakedown John for money and while angry with his father, doesn't want to crush him mother and have his father going to prison.  Could this be enough for him to kill his cousin?  Billy finds Ryan having killed Erin and is taking the fall for nephew as not to destroy his brother's family???  Hmmm.... 

Fifth, Lori Ross.  Doubtful as she doesn't seem nearly distracted enough but if she found out the secret somehow then maybe that could have led her down a dark path.  

I think it's probably John had the affair, Billy is involved in the murder somehow, and Dylan found out and was either bought off or became involved in the cover up.  But the Ryan Ross angle is interesting.

 

Yup.  Never really had a good explanation of Dylan's motives though.  I mean the explanation was lame.  But, yea, once you figured out who the father was, it really narrowed it down to 4 main folks.  1 didn't have the resolve, 1 didn't have the darkness in them, and 1 was too damn obvious.

Good show with beautiful scenery of small town America.  Was really surprised Guy Pearce was given so little to do.

 

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wild_turkey

wild_turkey 3187

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That was great. Once I realized who the actual killer was, everything made complete sense to the point that I felt a bit dumb for not realizing it in advance. But definitely a well written conclusion.

The only thing I’m a little disappointed about is Dylan’s role, or lack thereof. He seemed pretty intent to burn Erin’s journals, then he became a psychopath chasing down Jess and telling her something about how they were now joined for life, as if to suggest they shared a pretty dark secret. Then in the finale, he simply shows up at Lori’s door and gives her the money. I guess he was just a red herring, but they maybe overplayed that angle a little bit.

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Eskimohorn

Eskimohorn 5644

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Yup.  Never really had a good explanation of Dylan's motives though.  I mean the explanation was lame.  But, yea, once you figured out who the father was, it really narrowed it down to 4 main folks.  1 didn't have the resolve, 1 didn't have the darkness in them, and 1 was too damn obvious.
Good show with beautiful scenery of small town America.  Was really surprised Guy Pearce was given so little to do.
 

I’m not buying it either. He assaults Jesse badly, says the “three of them” are in it together. All because the diary would hasten the discovery of the who the real father was? Who we already know is not Dylan.
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bschoolprof

bschoolprof 6273

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1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

I guess I’m in the minority. It seemed far-fetched, and based on what had been shown there’s no reason to have suspected Ryan. Oh well, good show but a bit of a letdown ending for me.

The show was very well done and the writing held up much better than I expected.  But I guess I wasn't as satisfied with the resolution as everyone else.  

1) The Ryan involvement was silly. Imagining my 12 year old or any kid of that age doing something like that - on his schwinn at midnight, miles from home - is laughable.  They should have just left John as the killer. 

Real quick: so the old man noticed his gun was missing in the middle of the night during the 2 hour window that Ryan took it and returned it?  

2) The Dylan et al book burning sub plot still makes little sense.

 

On the other hand, I agree with others that the character development on this show was excellent. Mare losing her son to suicide was gut wrenching and the final scene with the attic stairs was very well done.  

 

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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9942

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Posted (edited)

The plot had some minor holes, but for a mystery it was solid.  I’ve seen some absurd BBC mystery plot twists over the years.  This was small stuff. 
 

The reality is the the series was about grief and history. How we process it and don’t, how it affects our lives in ways big and small. It was as beautifully acted as anything I’ve seen in years, without a single weak point.  
 

Her Bates quip had my hard lol-ing. Guy Pierce was about to exchange one shitty small college town with weird accents for a different shitty small college town with weird accents.

Edited by Bateshorn
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