Another police shooting. This one in Columbus, OH

[BabaYaga 15299]

12 minutes ago, alincoln said:

There is at least anecdotal evidence that police departments (including the Columbus PD) have significantly decreased patrols in black neighborhoods and that response times to reports of violent crimes in those neighborhoods have increased significantly.  In Columbus, there has been talk of police basically abandoning Linden (the poorest black neighborhood in the city). 

There has been significant attention given to the "post-pandemic" violence but the murder rate was already up almost 40% in 2020.  In Columbus, black male homicide victims increased from 58 in 2019 to 84 in 2020, a 50% increase, and half of those murders didn't result in any arrest.  Murder without consequences yields more murder.    

Yep.  Saw it in Baltimore as well years back.  And before all the stupid taking points come out about rogue, wanna-be SEAL cops having to work off a shorter leash...that isn't even close to the case.  

So much of what they have to do is subjective.  Very few situations are black/white, so if you perceive the media, political and city leaders, and your own leadership to not have your back and default against you, they just won't put themselves into situations where they don't have the benefit of the doubt and keep to the low hanging fruit of less frenetic areas of the city.  Which stinks, because those neighborhoods that needs them the most are the ones that are most negatively impacted; and based upon poling, WANT them actively patrolling their areas.  

[MonkeyDoughnut 10243]

13 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Yep.  Saw it in Baltimore as well years back.  And before all the stupid taking points come out about rogue, wanna-be SEAL cops having to work off a shorter leash...that isn't even close to the case.  

So much of what they have to do is subjective.  Very few situations are black/white, so if you perceive the media, political and city leaders, and your own leadership to not have your back and default against you, they just won't put themselves into situations where they don't have the benefit of the doubt and keep to the low hanging fruit of less frenetic areas of the city.  Which stinks, because those neighborhoods that needs them the most are the ones that are most negatively impacted; and based upon poling, WANT them actively patrolling their areas.  

Agree, now is also an opportunity in places, especially like Columbus, where getting new police recruits is getting harder and harder. Its definitely a place where federal government could help out with funds of incentives. They need to find ways to get qualified candidates to join with goal of getting the police force to better resemble the communities they serve.  The racial breakdown disparities between police and community is still incredibly large.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

15 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Yep.  Saw it in Baltimore as well years back.  And before all the stupid taking points come out about rogue, wanna-be SEAL cops having to work off a shorter leash...that isn't even close to the case.  

So much of what they have to do is subjective.  Very few situations are black/white, so if you perceive the media, political and city leaders, and your own leadership to not have your back and default against you, they just won't put themselves into situations where they don't have the benefit of the doubt and keep to the low hanging fruit of less frenetic areas of the city.  Which stinks, because those neighborhoods that needs them the most are the ones that are most negatively impacted; and based upon poling, WANT them actively patrolling their areas.  

It's sad if good police think they can't do their job but unfortunately part of the blame is on their own failure to police their own.  Any one of the police officers at the George Floyd murder could have talked Chauvin into taking his knee of Floyd's neck but I don't believe any of them even looked in Chauvin or Floyd's way. Their code is to allow other police to do what they think is best and don't question it, at least in the moment.

My guess is that if one of the other police had acted in that way, Floyd should be alive today AND that intervening cop would have faced informal punishment from the other cops.

[SHOOTER12 8810]

Does anyone have a different link to the shooting video? I'm getting a "private video" message on the op's link.

Thanks

[Nicole44 22060]

According to the jjie (Juvenile Justice Information Exchange) .06 of the population are (my words) in gangs and they comprise half of the homicides of any given city. I posted on multiple threads how we can make a difference with at risk kids. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

40 minutes ago, alincoln said:

There is at least anecdotal evidence that police departments (including the Columbus PD) have significantly decreased patrols in black neighborhoods and that response times to reports of violent crimes in those neighborhoods have increased significantly.  In Columbus, there has been talk of police basically abandoning Linden (the poorest black neighborhood in the city). 

There has been significant attention given to the "post-pandemic" violence but the murder rate was already up almost 40% in 2020.  In Columbus, black male homicide victims increased from 58 in 2019 to 84 in 2020, a 50% increase, and half of those murders didn't result in any arrest.  Murder without consequences yields more murder.    

and they're abandoning patrols because a police officer decided to murder a guy in broad daylight and was convicted of said murder?

who is this an indictment on? us as a society? the media? or police? or someone else?

[BabaYaga 15299]

2 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Agree, now is also an opportunity in places, especially like Columbus, where getting new police recruits is getting harder and harder. Its definitely a place where federal government could help out with funds of incentives. They need to find ways to get qualified candidates to join with goal of getting the police force to better resemble the communities they serve.  The racial breakdown disparities between police and community is still incredibly large.

There is no amount of money that could incentivize me to take on that stressful shit.  All of my LEO friends have either left the force or moved into specialized units (SWAT or other task forces that get them off the streets).

Best analogy I heard was the study done after Vietnam and reinforced with the ME conflicts on why front-line soldiers suffered so dramatically, yet SF/SMU operators so much less, despite seeing significantly higher engagement rates.  It's the day in and day out monotony and fear that the next engagement could be your last.  It's always responding to the unknown and not having the training to deal with those high-energy scenarios.  At least soldiers do a work up, then rotate out.  LEO's often live in the area or near it.  It's day in and day out with no breaks and minimal training while every media outlet just shits all over you (hence the Vietnam initial study).  We're seeing many with higher PTSD traits than many soldiers.  It's bad and getting worse.

[BabaYaga 15299]

7 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

It's sad if good police think they can't do their job but unfortunately part of the blame is on their own failure to police their own.  Any one of the police officers at the George Floyd murder could have talked Chauvin into taking his knee of Floyd's neck but I don't believe any of them even looked in Chauvin or Floyd's way. Their code is to allow other police to do what they think is best and don't question it, at least in the moment.

My guess is that if one of the other police had acted in that way, Floyd should be alive today AND that intervening cop would have faced informal punishment from the other cops.

Those were all rookies for the most part.  They had probably never seen shit like that and didn't know what on earth to do.  Get's back to training, as they obviously had had none for scenarios like that.  They just panicked and froze.  Classic diffusion of responsibility syndrome you see in crowded scenarios where nobody does anything and everyone looks to someone else to step in.  Not excusing their lack of action, but trying to wrap my head around it.  

[BurntOrange&White 39934]

16 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Agree, now is also an opportunity in places, especially like Columbus, where getting new police recruits is getting harder and harder. Its definitely a place where federal government could help out with funds of incentives. They need to find ways to get qualified candidates to join with goal of getting the police force to better resemble the communities they serve.  The racial breakdown disparities between police and community is still incredibly large.

I’ve heard a lot of police jurisdictions are starting to require bachelor degrees. 

[Celery Man 20962]

I wonder what the most effective way is to replace cops/departments who decide that if they don't get a blank murder check they can't do their job. let them flip burgers and guard malls while taking a massive step in the right direction for police culture.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Those were all rookies for the most part.  They had probably never seen shit like that and didn't know what on earth to do.  Get's back to training, as they obviously had had none for scenarios like that.  They just panicked and froze.  Classic diffusion of responsibility syndrome you see in crowded scenarios where nobody does anything and everyone looks to someone else to step in.  Not excusing their lack of action, but trying to wrap my head around it.  

you're absolutely excusing their inaction. dozens of citizens knew exactly what was happening and tried to interject. they didn't have any training that somehow resulted in them acting like a human being, they just recognized a human was being murdered and tried to stop it. meanwhile, the cops did nothing. it's inexcusable, but fits a long pattern of behavior where 'good cops' stand by and do nothing while 'bad cops' commit crimes. it's ingrained in their culture.

 

[Nicole44 22060]

 

CHICAGO – Authorities tell WGN that a father and his 7-year-old girl were shot Sunday in the city’s Homan Square neighborhood while sitting at a McDonald’s drive-thru. The girl did not survive.

———-

Gunfire that erupted at a 12-year-old’s birthday party in Louisiana last week left nine teenagers injured, including two who remain hospitalized, authorities said Monday.

 

——————-

Despite the large number of attendees at the party, St. John the Baptist Parish Sheriff Mike Tregre said on Monday that no witnesses have come forward with information regarding the shooting.

"Not one person has given a formal statement," Tregre said in a statement. "I am asking witnesses to come forward with information to help us learn more about what happened."

The injured included:

• A 17-year-old boy shot in the arm
• A 16-year-old boy grazed in the ribs
• A 15-year-old boy shot in the foot
• A 14-year-old boy shot in the leg
• A 13-year-old boy shot in the leg
• A 12-year-old shot in both legs
• A 16-year-old boy shot in the stomach
• A 14-year-old boy shot in the head

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Nicole44

[alincoln 2372]

8 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

you're absolutely excusing their inaction. dozens of citizens knew exactly what was happening and tried to interject. they didn't have any training that somehow resulted in them acting like a human being, they just recognized a human was being murdered and tried to stop it. meanwhile, the cops did nothing. it's inexcusable, but fits a long pattern of behavior where 'good cops' stand by and do nothing while 'bad cops' commit crimes. it's ingrained in their culture.

 

And they are circling the wagons now more than ever.  Avoiding situations that lead to police shootings is a relatively immature "solution" instead of addressing the underlying issues but it probably will lead to less police shootings.  Police are increasingly defining their role as investigatory instead of preventative in high crime areas.  

[Message Board User 12395]

Incredible...but not surprising at all.

I'm sure Twitter will put up a misinformation/misleading disclaimer on these tweets any...time...now...

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

The outcry at the media is laughable. The media is a business that do everything they can to get you to click/read an article.  If you hate misleading articles from a certain media outlet, stop clicking on them.

FYI, I'm reading CNN's home page that says police shot and killed a teen holding a knife. Right there in the headline.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Nice Guy Eddie

[alincoln 2372]

6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The outcry at the media is laughable. The media is a business that do everything they can to get you to click/read an article.  If you hate misleading articles from a certain media outlet, stop clicking on them.

FYI, I'm reading CNN's home page that says police shot and killed a teen holding a knife. Right there in the headline.

I don't think the fact that elements of the media are actively distorting reality to suggest that police shot an unarmed black 15 year old girl in the immediate wake of the Chauvin verdict is laughable at all.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

4 minutes ago, alincoln said:

I don't think the fact that elements of the media are actively distorting reality to suggest that police shot an unarmed black 15 year old girl in the immediate wake of the Chauvin verdict is laughable at all.  

but it is because they always do this. Acting like this is the first time this has occurred is the laughable part. and this occurs on both sides. The point of the news is not for you to be informed. It's to get eyes on the stories and corresponding ads. 

[alincoln 2372]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

but it is because they always do this. Acting like this is the first time this has occurred is the laughable part. and this occurs on both sides. The point of the news is not for you to be informed. It's to get eyes on the stories and corresponding ads. 

And that is depressing and dangerous, not laughable.  No one is acting like this is the first time this has occurred.  It is expected.  

[Deej 76799]

She was doing a bit more than holding a knife. 

[BabaYaga 15299]

2 minutes ago, alincoln said:

And that is depressing and dangerous, not laughable.  No one is acting like this is the first time this has occurred.  It is expected.  

The "everyone is doing it " defense of the media is exactly why nobody trusts a word they say and further feeds the divide as each side's confirmation on events leads them to sources that feed that bias.  

[Message Board User 12395]

Just now, alincoln said:

And that is depressing and dangerous, not laughable.  No one is acting like this is the first time this has occurred.  It is expected.  

Damn right.  There are real world consequences for spreading misinformation.

Apparently if businesses get looted or people hurt tonight because of riots or looting over this cop shooting, some people will think it's laughable.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 The point of the news is not for you to be informed. It's to get eyes on the stories and corresponding ads. 

How else do you discover that sure fire treatment for baldness, ED, and incontinence ?

[Captainant 27678]

4 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

The "everyone is doing it " defense of the media is exactly why nobody trusts a word they say and further feeds the divide as each side's confirmation on events leads them to sources that feed that bias.  

IMO, you're touching on a much broader distrust of institutions that's been simmering ever since dubya sent us into the middle east for two-plus generations on the lie of WMD's.

It's not just the media, we've been getting lied to for a long time now which has had wide reaching caustic effect.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Captainant

[Nicole44 22060]

Why was Lizzo attacking nicki minaj? Pink was involved? 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

How else do you discover that sure fire treatment for baldness, ED, and incontinence ?

you won't believe what _________ did next? <embedded provocative photo>

[alincoln 2372]

2 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Damn right.  There are real world consequences for spreading misinformation.

Apparently if businesses get looted or people hurt tonight because of riots or looting over this cop shooting, some people will think it's laughable.

Exactly, particularly as someone with a business in Columbus with a building that rioters tried to burn down while our IT staff was inside.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

IMO, you're touching on a much broader distrust of institutions that's been simmering ever since dubya sent us into the middle east for two-plus decades on the lie of WMD's.

It's not just the media, we've been getting lied to for a long time now which has had wide reaching caustic effect.

Guess W somehow convinced all these people of Iraq's WMDs, some from the time he was sitting in the Governor's mansion in Austin.

Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade and much of his nation's wealth not on providing for the Iraqi people but on developing nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them." -- President Bill Clinton (State of the Union Address), Jan. 27, 1998 "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998 "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 "No one has done what Saddam Hussein has done, or is thinking of doing.  He is producing weapons of mass destruction, and he is qualitatively and quantitatively different from other dictators.""Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998 "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." --Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by: -- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998 "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998 "Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999 "There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by: -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001     "I mean, we have three different countries that, while they all present serious problems for the United States -- they're dictatorships, they're involved in the development and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction -- you know, the most imminent, clear and present threat to our country is not the same from those three countries.  I think Iraq is the most serious and imminent threat to our country." -- Sen. John Edwards (D, NC) Feb. 24, 2002 "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them." -- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002 "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.   We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."   " -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 "There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated.  He must be disarmed.  We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Edward Kennedy (D, MA) Sep. 27, 2002 "Now let me be clear -- I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein.  He is a brutal man.  A ruthless man.  A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power.  He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity.  He's a bad guy.  The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him." -- State Senator Barack Obama (Democrat, Illinois) Oct. 2, 2002 "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." -- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002 "My position is very clear: The time has come for decisive action to eliminate the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction." -- Senator John Edwards (D, NC), Oct. 7, 2002 "We stopped the fighting [in 1991] on an agreement that Iraq would take steps to assure the world that it would not engage in further aggression and that it would destroy its weapons of mass destruction.  It has refused to take those steps.  That refusal constitutes a breach of the armistice which renders it void and justifies resumption of the armed conflict." -- Sen. Harry Reid (D. NV) Oct. 9, 2002 "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002 "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002 "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" -- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002 "I come to this debate, Mr. Speaker, as one at the end of 10 years in office on the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, where stopping the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction was one of my top priorities.  I applaud the President on focusing on this issue and on taking the lead to disarm Saddam Hussein.  ...  Others have talked about this threat that is posed by Saddam Hussein.  Yes, he has chemical weapons, he has biological weapons, he is trying to get nuclear weapons."   -- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D. CA) Oct. 10, 2002 "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." -- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002 "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003 "People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons." -- Ex President Bill Clinton, Jul. 22, 2003 (Interview with CNN Larry King) I asked very direct questions of the top people in the CIA and people who'd served in the Clinton administration.  And they said they believed that Saddam Hussein either had weapons or had the components of weapons or the ability to quickly make weapons of mass destruction.  What we're worried about is an A-bomb in a Ryder truck in New York, in Washington and St. Louis.  It cannot happen.  We have to prevent it from happening.  -- Rep. Richard Gephardt (D, MT) Nov. 2, 2003

[BabaYaga 15299]

4 minutes ago, alincoln said:

Exactly, particularly as someone with a business in Columbus with a building that rioters tried to burn down while our IT staff was inside.  

Fodder for the cause....

[Guest Lobo]

"I was for the Iraq War before I was against it." 

People forget a very influential cadre of the Neocon movement came from the Democratic Party and they lasted well into the 2000's. 

Having said that, what does this have to do with Columbus?  
 

Oh wait, are we gonna invade Columbus and remove it from the United States?  Because I am in. Count me in.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

Guess W somehow convinced all these people of Iraq's WMDs, some from the time he was sitting in the Governor's mansion in Austin.

Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade and much of his nation's wealth not on providing for the Iraqi people but on developing nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them." -- President Bill Clinton (State of the Union Address), Jan. 27, 1998 "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998 "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 "No one has done what Saddam Hussein has done, or is thinking of doing.  He is producing weapons of mass destruction, and he is qualitatively and quantitatively different from other dictators.""Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998 "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." --Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by: -- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998 "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998 "Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999 "There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by: -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001     "I mean, we have three different countries that, while they all present serious problems for the United States -- they're dictatorships, they're involved in the development and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction -- you know, the most imminent, clear and present threat to our country is not the same from those three countries.  I think Iraq is the most serious and imminent threat to our country." -- Sen. John Edwards (D, NC) Feb. 24, 2002 "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them." -- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002 "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.   We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."   " -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 "There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated.  He must be disarmed.  We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Edward Kennedy (D, MA) Sep. 27, 2002 "Now let me be clear -- I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein.  He is a brutal man.  A ruthless man.  A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power.  He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity.  He's a bad guy.  The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him." -- State Senator Barack Obama (Democrat, Illinois) Oct. 2, 2002 "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." -- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002 "My position is very clear: The time has come for decisive action to eliminate the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction." -- Senator John Edwards (D, NC), Oct. 7, 2002 "We stopped the fighting [in 1991] on an agreement that Iraq would take steps to assure the world that it would not engage in further aggression and that it would destroy its weapons of mass destruction.  It has refused to take those steps.  That refusal constitutes a breach of the armistice which renders it void and justifies resumption of the armed conflict." -- Sen. Harry Reid (D. NV) Oct. 9, 2002 "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002 "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002 "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" -- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002 "I come to this debate, Mr. Speaker, as one at the end of 10 years in office on the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, where stopping the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction was one of my top priorities.  I applaud the President on focusing on this issue and on taking the lead to disarm Saddam Hussein.  ...  Others have talked about this threat that is posed by Saddam Hussein.  Yes, he has chemical weapons, he has biological weapons, he is trying to get nuclear weapons."   -- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D. CA) Oct. 10, 2002 "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." -- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002 "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003 "People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons." -- Ex President Bill Clinton, Jul. 22, 2003 (Interview with CNN Larry King) I asked very direct questions of the top people in the CIA and people who'd served in the Clinton administration.  And they said they believed that Saddam Hussein either had weapons or had the components of weapons or the ability to quickly make weapons of mass destruction.  What we're worried about is an A-bomb in a Ryder truck in New York, in Washington and St. Louis.  It cannot happen.  We have to prevent it from happening.  -- Rep. Richard Gephardt (D, MT) Nov. 2, 2003

God dammit !!!  this is not allowed....  Let him keep on with the shallow, predictable partisan rant.  It's good humor.

For the record distrust of the media was was formenting before Bush II was in the WH.  I'd put its roots at the beginning of Turner news, and the 24 hour news cycle.  Post Carter, the media has been a one team advocate. Journalism became something other than reporting the news.  

[Not a cat 5658]

11 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

How else do you discover that sure fire treatment for baldness, ED, and incontinence ?

I don't appreciate your implication, I can hold my piss in just fine.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Not a cat said:

I don't appreciate your implication, I can hold my piss in just fine.

Give it time.... give it time... this too shall pass.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Onboard 2.0

['stache 21816]

So was the girl that was shot the one who called the cops for help? Was she using the knife to protect herself while waiting for the cops to arrive? Did the cop really have time to say "hey what's going on here" before shooting? This is a tough one, but I have to believe there are ways to deescalate, and it's especially sad if the girl was the one calling for help. I've read that but haven't seen it confirmed. Just adds to the notion to never call the cops for help.

Edited April 21, 2021 by 'stache

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

So was the girl that was shot the one who called the cops for help? Was she using the knife to protect herself while waiting for the cops to arrive? Did the cop really have time to say "hey what's going on here" before shooting? This is a tough one, but I have to believe there are ways to deescalate, and it's especially said if the girl was the one calling for help. I've read that but haven't seen it confirmed. Just adds to the notion to never call the cops for help.

When the cops show up and you have a knife and are in the process of attempting to stab someone who is not armed, it really is not a tough one at all.

['stache 21816]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

When the cops show up and you have a knife and are in the process of attempting to stab someone who is not armed, it really is not a tough one at all.

You don't think that maybe she was swinging the knife to keep them away? If she was intent on stabbing them, wouldn't she likely have done it much earlier? What are the odds that the exact moment the cops arrived was the exact moment she was ready to stab? I'll wait on more confirmation, but if she called the cops for help and had either taken the knife from the aggressors or was using it to protect herself, it is maybe the saddest situation of all. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

When the cops show up and you have a knife and are in the process of attempting to stab someone who is not armed, it really is not a tough one at all.

Tough isn't the right word IMO.  Unfortunate timing may be a better description. No idea what happened before the cops showed up, but yeah, you're gonna get shot if you have the weapon in your hand.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Onboard 2.0

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, 'stache said:

You don't think that maybe she was swinging the knife to keep them away? If she was intent on stabbing them, wouldn't she likely have done it much earlier? What are the odds that the exact moment the cops arrived was the exact moment she was ready to stab? I'll wait on more confirmation, but if she called the cops for help and had either taken the knife from the aggressors or was using it to protect herself, it is maybe the saddest situation of all. 

Yep, it's a horrible situation all around, especially if she was in the act of defending herself.

[Nicole44 22060]

Just now, Not a cat said:

I don't appreciate your implication, I can hold my piss in just fine.

Meow. At least you are preemptive

4 minutes ago, 'stache said:

So was the girl that was shot the one who called the cops for help? Was she using the knife to protect herself while waiting for the cops to arrive? Did the cop really have time to say "hey what's going on here" before shooting? This is a tough one, but I have to believe there are ways to deescalate, and it's especially sad if the girl was the one calling for help. I've read that but haven't seen it confirmed. Just adds to the notion to never call the cops for help.

What may I ask were the guys doing during this altercation? The ones in the background? 
 

the video was slowed down and is transparent. 
https://www.10tv.com/mobile/article/news/local/16-year-old-girl-shot-and-killed-by-police-officer-in-southeast-columbus/530-c77bb47e-97d1-47b5-8ed8-099c105a0f20

 

['stache 21816]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Tough isn't the right word IMO.  Unfortunate timing my be a better description. No idea what happened before the cops showed up, but yeah, you're gonna get shot if you have the weapon in your hand.

We've seen lots of examples of cops taking out shooters physically, without guns. It's possible, it happens.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

You don't think that maybe she was swinging the knife to keep them away? If she was intent on stabbing them, wouldn't she likely have done it much earlier? What are the odds that the exact moment the cops arrived was the exact moment she was ready to stab? I'll wait on more confirmation, but if she called the cops for help and had either taken the knife from the aggressors or was using it to protect herself, it is maybe the saddest situation of all. 

Wtf are you talking about? She was defending herself by being the aggressor and attacking a girl standing around holding a small dog? Was the girl in pink about to chunk a rabid chihuahua at her?  She was about to stab the girl in pink.

She should have been afforded more time to fatally stab someone who was posing no threat to her? Jesus fucking Christ.  It is morons like you who fuck up good arguments for police reform by including things like this or Michael Brown as criticism against cops.  Stick with Floyd, Tony Timpa, Tamir Rice, Philando Castile.

[fuggled 576]

33 minutes ago, alincoln said:

I don't think the fact that elements of the media are actively distorting reality to suggest that police shot an unarmed black 15 year old girl in the immediate wake of the Chauvin verdict is laughable at all.  

I don't think it's as sinister as you're making it out to be.  The reports immediately after the shooting were based on statements from the girl's family that she had already dropped the knife.  The video showing differently wasn't released until later.  Maybe the media shouldn't have included those elements in the stories until they could verify with video.  But that's different than claiming the media saw one thing in the video and decided to publish the opposite (i.e. lies).  Like @Nice Guy Eddie said, this is more a problem of the media racing to get something out to get clicks than it is a problem of active distortion.  At least in this case.

[Nicole44 22060]

I have now watched this shitty video 9 times. She was attacking both women with a knife. Cop should have fired in the air on the shooting trying to save a life. What were the guys who were bitching about the shooting doing? Nada. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

We've seen lots of examples of cops taking out shooters physically, without guns. It's possible, it happens.

She had a knife, and probably outweighed the cop by 100 lbs.    I doubt he was gonna take her down manually.

I remember in HS, a fight breaks out in the hall, as they did from time to time. Asst principal comes running down the hall wading thru people, and does a quick, hard stop when he sees it's 2 black girls fighting..  Yeah, that fight ended on its own.  He didn't even try to stop it, just stood there with a dumfounded look on his face while they wailed on each other, ripping earrings, and hair out.

[hayden_horn 11362]

yall who don't want cloak room in the daily texan really like bringing the cloak room into the daily texan.

i'm going to have a think about how to treat this thread, but don't be surprised if some posts are moved around lunchtime.

[Nicole44 22060]

7 minutes ago, 'stache said:

We've seen lots of examples of cops taking out shooters physically, without guns. It's possible, it happens.

Yes we have. Too many times to count. Cops did the appropriate thing here. Jmo.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

34 minutes ago, alincoln said:

And that is depressing and dangerous, not laughable.  No one is acting like this is the first time this has occurred.  It is expected.  

agreed. and the folks most outraged by the WP instance posted above (which is irresponsible and dangerous) mainline Fox News and other 'news' outlets whose entire existence is based on sensationalism and distorting the truth.

if we could stop the hypocrisy and hold everybody accountable, that would be a great start. but that isn´t happening...we're falling further and further into whatever camp distorts the truth towards our liking.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

I have now watched this shitty video 9 times. She was attacking both women with a knife. Cop should have fired in the air on the shooting trying to save a life. What were the guys who were bitching about the shooting doing? Nada. 

I like that thought.

[Fondren & Main 6718]

We have some real lunatics in this country, that's for sure.  I'm not sure why this and the Marcelo Garcia case are being conflated with Chauvin...

 

[Trey3216 15346]

4 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

yall who don't want cloak room in the daily texan really like bringing the cloak room into the daily texan.

i'm going to have a think about how to treat this thread, but don't be surprised if some posts are moved around lunchtime.

Perhaps you should tell that to Captainant, and yourself on occasion.  

[hayden_horn 11362]

Just now, Trey3216 said:

Perhaps you should tell that to Captainant, and yourself on occasion.  

i'll take it under advisement.

you should report captainant posts you feel are political. also, feel free to report any of my posts you feel are offside. i won't take it personally, and i'll let @immamac and @blacklab handle it.

i just think it's a real problem that needs some more attention. i'm also open to feedback about how to handle it.