Why does everyone who doesn't agree in lockstep with everything I do have to be right wing?

[Celery Man 20886]

 

from the inevitable evolution of the daily texan Columbus police shooting thread, here

 

 

 

There are several different answers to the question from @Trey3216

One is that the statement is wrong - I disagree with plenty of people who are not right wingers. Bad Teammate is an easy target and is a nice example because I won't need to explain that this is not an attack on him. I disagree with him about plenty, and I do not think he is a right winger. Certainly wouldn't call him that. It's not accurate, and is an example of how I do not think that everyone who disagrees with me is a right winger.

Another answer is that, while my statement may have been slightly hyperbolic (maybe, but also maybe not), the dudes that one could safely assume I'm talking about are in fact right wingers. They might describe themselves as something different, but any observable way of measuring that would indicate that they are in fact "right wingers". You could quibble with the term "right wingers" and that would be fine. I was actually not going for any kind of confrontational verbiage there, and don't think I used any.

If the problem with "right wingers" is that it diminishes the complexity and diversity of thought behind the guys who are constantly doing "conservative" (less accurate than right wing) cloak room in the daily texan, that would lead to the big overarching problem we have societally in that things are extremely binary right now (it would also be bullshit). That is a big problem (the stark increasing divide in our country between two sides). I think if we can't agree on even basic facts, I don't know how we overcome that problem. Honestly, it seems like the best case scenario is that the GOP continues on the path it is on and does not win power until it loses firmly by attrition, we can do some repair on the old representative democracy, and they are completely marginalized and replaced by the moderate wing of the democratic party.

 

Anyways, tl;dr - people who don't agree with me are not necessarily right wing, but the folks I was talking about are.

Also side note - I don't take politics into dog threads or guitar threads or shit that has fuck all to do with politics. Just, I didn't directly address the "with everything I do" portion of the question. This isn't a "with everything I do" thing, this is a "people continuing to use daily texan as right wing CR" thing.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Celery Man

[Beau Vine 54003]

No one in the world is more persecuted than Right Wingers.  God bless them.

[jimmyjazz 45560]

2 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

No one in the world is more persecuted than Right Wingers.  God bless them.

RWLM

[C-Man 27057]

9 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

No one in the world is more persecuted than Right Wingers.  God bless them.

Nobody does pearl clutching quite like the far right -- for all that talk about "libs" being "triggered" over the years, the right has taken it to new heights. It's amazing really.

[406W30th 1111]

[Gil Bang 25898]

23 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

No one in the world is more persecuted than Right Wingers.  God bless them.

The only bigger group of pussies is Texas High-School football coaches...who are probably right-wingers anyway. 

[Celery Man 20886]

29 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

im pro higher tax, pro abortion, pro drug legalization, pro social net, anti war/defense, anti civil forfeiture, anti qual immunity, and a mixed-marriage minority to boot, and ive been accused of being a right winger trumpist.

thats how fucking stupid these CR vermints are

see I think if you came into the cloak room and talked about that stuff, people wouldn't assume you were a right winger when you were saying right wing shit with the other right wingers. I don't have the time or the desire to go through and study your involvement in DTCR threads for the past year, but if what you say above is consistent with what you've posted, I guess we assume you're right wing because you only jump into protest threads to agree with the rest of the DTCR guys about the limits of free speech and the benefits of martial law.

[burntorangebongos 10681]

I remember when cajun and a few others went into the board discussion forum to bitch about Hugo fucking up CR. I think if I remember correctly, they thought he was a political operative with an agenda trying to take over the CR. They bitched to no avail and then decided to post threads with "no politics" warnings in DT but that might have been on the other site because I don't see posts like that here except for that one covid thread. The point in going back over that(and likely misremembering)is we allowed human nature to take over instead of having a meeting of the minds on how to proceed.

We formed cliques and I who was never a CR denizen became one without thinking why I posted here instead of there when I became willing to engage in political discussion. If DT was where the moderates and lefties posted, I imagine I would have continued to stay out of the CR. In other words, we formed a new political forum by high-jacking the news one. It would have likely happened the other way around so we can't blame the right wing for that completely. 

Since I don't know a time different from the Surly CR, maybe someone can explain how it was before when both groups posted in the political forum because I didn't participate much to know about it, other than when shit went on blast because of outrageous posts. Is it worth going back to that? Are we willing to do that or should we just acknowledge that we want 2 political forums?

[hobbes2702 12846]

6 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

I remember when cajun and a few others went into the board discussion forum to bitch about Hugo fucking up CR. I think if I remember correctly, they thought he was a political operative with an agenda trying to take over the CR. They bitched to no avail and then decided to post threads with "no politics" warnings in DT but that might have been on the other site because I don't see posts like that here except for that one covid thread. The point in going back over that(and likely misremembering)is we allowed human nature to take over instead of having a meeting of the minds on how to proceed.

We formed cliques and I who was never a CR denizen became one without thinking why I posted here instead of there when I became willing to engage in political discussion. If DT was where the moderates and lefties posted, I imagine I would have continued to stay out of the CR. In other words, we formed a new political forum by high-jacking the news one. It would have likely happened the other way around so we can't blame the right wing for that completely. 

Since I don't know a time different from the Surly CR, maybe someone can explain how it was before when both groups posted in the political forum because I didn't participate much to know about it, other than when shit went on blast because of outrageous posts. Is it worth going back to that? Are we willing to do that or should we just acknowledge that we want 2 political forums?

We only need one political forum we just need an opposition side that is willing to argue in good faith. That disappeared as the became more and more unable to defend their positions with logic or data

[immamac 42519]

What the fuck do you people want from me? Like seriously I'm tired of this bullshit. Use the report button. I'll just start banning people. 

[Captainant 27464]

6 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

Since I don't know a time different from the Surly CR, maybe someone can explain how it was before when both groups posted in the political forum because I didn't participate much to know about it, other than when shit went on blast because of outrageous posts. Is it worth going back to that? Are we willing to do that or should we just acknowledge that we want 2 political forums?

Shaggy CR was much more right-leaning than Surly CR is left-leaning. Around 2016 when Trump became president, fewer and fewer of the right-leaning posters wanted to or could defend trump, so they retreated to other boards to repeat the same talking points as before in the CR, and to have cover to deflect any critique of what they're saying by saying "OMG CR TROLL!!!"

[Captainant 27464]

2 minutes ago, immamac said:

What the fuck do you people want from me? Like seriously I'm tired of this bullshit. Use the report button. I'll just start banning people. 

Whatever yall end up doing, I think it would help the community to better follow the rules if yall have a "thread of shame" or whatever to display posts that earned punishment, and a sentence or two on why it was actioned on

[immamac 42519]

Done. 

Let's fucking go. 

 

 

 

 

[hpslugga 4044]

25 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

We only need one political forum we just need an opposition side that is willing to argue in good faith. That disappeared as the became more and more unable to defend their positions with logic or data

You're being too kind. It's literally impossible to defend their positions. Asking a GQP to argue in good faith is like dreaming of the perfect woman.

[Gatorubet 30113]

What the fuck do you people want from me?

Obligatory.

[immamac 42519]

Just now, Gatorubet said:

 

Obligatory.

 

God damn I'm glad they made that movie when this was still allowed to be funny. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

i thought this thread was about me but then I saw it wasn't so I got bored.

Drinking a Coke Zero now

['stache 21774]

Brought to you by people who call everyone else snowflakes.

[SydneyCarton 47884]

45 minutes ago, immamac said:

Done. 

Let's fucking go. 

 

 

 

 

I fear this ends 2 ways: you either get too exhausted to keep policing or a ton of folks leave and go elsewhere, like TigerDroppings. 

[Biff Tannen 45497]

2 hours ago, C-Man said:

Nobody does pearl clutching quite like the far right -- for all that talk about "libs" being "triggered" over the years, the right has taken it to new heights. It's amazing really.

It's all projection.  They have always been the snowflakes.

[atomheartbevo 89449]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Shaggy CR was much more right-leaning than Surly CR is left-leaning. Around 2016 when Trump became president, fewer and fewer of the right-leaning posters wanted to or could defend trump, so they retreated to other boards to repeat the same talking points as before in the CR, and to have cover to deflect any critique of what they're saying by saying "OMG CR TROLL!!!"

Ehh, a bunch of us were pretty right-leaning and/or independent (or whynotboth.gif, myself included) or centrist, and then 2016 happened, and we were given a choice between Hillary and Trump, and then Trump somehow still wins, and that pretty much made a bunch of us move to the left of center.

And all of this is against a backdrop where politicians already in office, the politicians win the ballot, and the media pretty much tried to get anybody in the middle to pick a side.

I still have family members who can't believe I don't belong to a party, and will vote for candidates from both major parties, as well as various third parties.  More than once I've gotten the "BBBBBUT YOU CAMPAIGNED FOR BUSH AND FOR OTHER REPUBLICANS, HOW CAN YOU TURN YOUR BACK ON THEM?" message/lecture.

 

[Hornius Emeritus 12420]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

What the fuck do you people want from me? Like seriously I'm tired of this bullshit. Use the report button. I'll just start banning people. 

 

Why not just move the political threads in the DT over here to the CR and then tell the offending person that if he does it again he's banned?

[Beau Vine 54003]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

What the fuck do you people want from me? Like seriously I'm tired of this bullshit. Use the report button. I'll just start banning people. 

Well, since you asked, I want the same thing that I've been asking for for years -- more transparency on the moderation.

1.  I hit report and see nothing other than "Thanks for report."  The post I report is rarely deleted, and I have no idea if any action was taken.  For example, I reported this post a couple of weeks ago, which could not be more political, and it's still up, and the guy was still posting the next day:

2.  So basically, I want a Surly police blotter.  

[elfenix 34171]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

What the fuck do you people want from me? Like seriously I'm tired of this bullshit. Use the report button. I'll just start banning people. 

indicate by bolded message in the post or thread when you perform a moderation activity.  so that we know something that is forked off from a DT thread is forked off from a DT thread, or if someone gets time off for being an asshat we know they got time off for that, etc. 

at least, that's what i want from you

[immamac 42519]

I can do that in a post edit note. 

[elfenix 34171]

Just now, immamac said:

I can do that in a post edit note. 

that'll work

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Meh, it's the internet. If it's unabashedly against terms of service then perhaps deal with that, otherwise, I either choose to engage or I don't.

If someone makes a point I hadn't considered, I try to acknowledge that.

It's a community and it has its flaws, but overall it seems to work.

I've always admired the UT motto on their seal; it has merit. "Cultivated mind is the guardian genius of democracy." Two other sayings associated with the University are also worthy, IMO. The well known: what starts here changes the world and the tower inscription: Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.

I would like to meet with the formidable Dr. William Battle in the afterlife and propose that the inscription on the tower, which was discussed at length prior to being chosen, should be amended to Ye shall know the truth and the truth may make you uncomfortable. I suspect he would take issue with that, being that it is from the Bible, and maybe that is what 'free' means when used the way it was, but we shall have time to discuss the topic at length if he can overcome reservations about discussing that with a woman. Considering that Molly Ivins is likely already having a fairly robust debate with prominent Texans, I suspect he'd have to get over it.

 

[UDontKnow 10439]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

What the fuck do you people want from me? Like seriously I'm tired of this bullshit. Use the report button. I'll just start banning people. 

An invitation to go fishing.

[Trey3216 15325]

7 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Well, since you asked, I want the same thing that I've been asking for for years -- more transparency on the moderation.

1.  I hit report and see nothing other than "Thanks for report."  The post I report is rarely deleted, and I have no idea if any action was taken.  For example, I reported this post a couple of weeks ago, which could not be more political, and it's still up, and the guy was still posting the next day:

2.  So basically, I want a Surly police blotter.  

Well, to be fair, Manfred is an idiot.  But those things don't scrape the surface of why he's an idiot.  

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Just now, UDontKnow said:

An invitation to go fishing.

Actually I'd like to see a cute baby pic of immamac jr, but as a parent I completely understand not wanting to put that out there. Love me some cute babies. Such a wonderful way to put a smile on a weary world.

[Beau Vine 54003]

6 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

Well, to be fair, Manfred is an idiot.  But those things don't scrape the surface of why he's an idiot.  

Everyone in that forum agrees that Manfred is an idiot.  

No one needed a moron taking it full Cloak Room.  

[washparkhorn 9935]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

What the fuck do you people want from me?

To enjoy your role as a publisher.  

 

[UDontKnow 10439]

2 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Everyone in that forum agrees that Manfred is an idiot.  

No one needed a moron taking it full Cloak Room.  

I don't like that post in the MLB (and I personally don't agree with it). But you made a CR style post in the Volleyball thread (which I didn't have a problem with at all) a couple of days ago. I think asking for bans based on one post might be a bit extreme.

This might be one of the reasons for @immamac's frustrations. That and the fact he might be mistaken for a Sikh devotee based on his current appearance.

[Trey3216 15325]

3 hours ago, Celery Man said:

 

from the inevitable evolution of the daily texan Columbus police shooting thread, here

 

 

 

There are several different answers to the question from @Trey3216

One is that the statement is wrong - I disagree with plenty of people who are not right wingers. Bad Teammate is an easy target and is a nice example because I won't need to explain that this is not an attack on him. I disagree with him about plenty, and I do not think he is a right winger. Certainly wouldn't call him that. It's not accurate, and is an example of how I do not think that everyone who disagrees with me is a right winger.

Another answer is that, while my statement may have been slightly hyperbolic (maybe, but also maybe not), the dudes that one could safely assume I'm talking about are in fact right wingers. They might describe themselves as something different, but any observable way of measuring that would indicate that they are in fact "right wingers". You could quibble with the term "right wingers" and that would be fine. I was actually not going for any kind of confrontational verbiage there, and don't think I used any.

If the problem with "right wingers" is that it diminishes the complexity and diversity of thought behind the guys who are constantly doing "conservative" (less accurate than right wing) cloak room in the daily texan, that would lead to the big overarching problem we have societally in that things are extremely binary right now (it would also be bullshit). That is a big problem (the stark increasing divide in our country between two sides). I think if we can't agree on even basic facts, I don't know how we overcome that problem. Honestly, it seems like the best case scenario is that the GOP continues on the path it is on and does not win power until it loses firmly by attrition, we can do some repair on the old representative democracy, and they are completely marginalized and replaced by the moderate wing of the democratic party.

 

Anyways, tl;dr - people who don't agree with me are not necessarily right wing, but the folks I was talking about are.

Also side note - I don't take politics into dog threads or guitar threads or shit that has fuck all to do with politics. Just, I didn't directly address the "with everything I do" portion of the question. This isn't a "with everything I do" thing, this is a "people continuing to use daily texan as right wing CR" thing.

Fair enough.  I've had time to read this twice now.  I wasn't calling you out specifically, even though I did quote you.  I was also being hyperbolic because it sickens me how we've become a nation where anyone that doesn't completely agree with everything we think, we must categorize/ostracize them into "the other side" and such.  

 

I'm a barely right of center person.  I have supported criminal justice reform, am firmly against qualified immunity/association of church and state (even though I'm a Christian, gahh!!!)/the War on Drugs/Weaponizing the Police and a host of other things.  I'm for various ideas of flat and national sales taxes and against property/income(outside of flat)/estate taxes.  I'm for a much smaller government, and against excessive government spending, on anything.  I'm for gun ownership, but not against reforms that better track and monitor their ownership.   I don't give 2 shits about someone's sexual preferences/race/religion/ethos, but I'm also not in favor of FEDERAL laws specifically biased towards any specific one or group.   

 

So, in light of that, it makes me sick when people draw a line in the sand before their argument even starts.  I quoted you in the other thread to bring up the point, not to accuse you (and I'm glad you started a thread to discuss it) of anything in particular.  The folks on the far right are equally guilty of drawing lines as the folks on the far left.  

 

The thing is, and I firmly believe this still, that America is still a middle country where most people can either agree on much of the same things or agree to disagree on a few key objects that they personally have a deeply vested interest in or are deeply profound beliefs about.  The loudest of the fringes make so much more noise than the 'agreeable' middle that that is all we hear about.  Ever.  

 

We're also a country that's been sold shit sandwiches for leadership for a while now.  Take that as you will.  I've voted for independents or write-ins (when that was still a thing, is it?) rather than parading a donkey or elephant around.  I've also voted for donkeys and elephants.  I've been accused by hardcore Trumpers as being a leftist and I've been called a piece of shit right wing fascist on this board.  Whatever.  I'm neither.  Never will be.   

 

But one thing I believe in firmly is this:  Supporting and legislation of only the views that you support (the royal you), i.e. acceptance of only what is acceptable to me and my worldview, is fascism in and of itself, however and whatever side it comes from.    

 

 

[Trey3216 15325]

14 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Everyone in that forum agrees that Manfred is an idiot.  

No one needed a moron taking it full Cloak Room.  

No doubt.  And he deserves the shellacking he no doubt received.  

[immamac 42519]

19 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Actually I'd like to see a cute baby pic of immamac jr, but as a parent I completely understand not wanting to put that out there. Love me some cute babies. Such a wonderful way to put a smile on a weary world.

I know - he looks nothing like me and has blonde hair and blue eyes. 

[Beau Vine 54003]

Adorable kid!  Who's the real father?

[immamac 42519]

2 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Adorable kid!  Who's the real father?

He's missing out if it's not me, Gunnar is equally cool and smart as he is good looking. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Oh!!!! Thank you! Absolutely adorable. Children are the light the shines so bright when our hearts are heavy.

He looks like a wonderful spirit. Thanks again.

[RomaVicta 29794]

3 hours ago, C-Man said:

Nobody does pearl clutching quite like the far right -- for all that talk about "libs" being "triggered" over the years, the right has taken it to new heights. It's amazing really.

The entire strategy of FOX News and the late, unmissed Rush Limbaugh was founded in fear-mongering and then triggering knee-jerk outrage and fear for profit. Add constant projection to that, and you have trouble figuring out what to do with all the fucking cash.

Better than dealing drugs.

[Trey3216 15325]

For solidarity, I live to make sure this one grows up to be intelligent, with an open mind to a big world of endless possibilities.   
 

 

[Beau Vine 54003]

6 minutes ago, immamac said:

He's missing out if it's not me, Gunnar is equally cool and smart as he is good looking. 

He has Steel Shank's eyes.

[Biff Tannen 45497]

58 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

More than once I've gotten the "BBBBBUT YOU CAMPAIGNED FOR BUSH AND FOR OTHER REPUBLICANS, HOW CAN YOU TURN YOUR BACK ON THEM?" message/lecture.

That's fuckin weird man.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

2 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

For solidarity, I live to make sure this one grows up to be intelligent, with an open mind to a big world of endless possibilities.   
 

 

 

That young lady has a mind that is going ninety miles an hour, you can see it in her eyes. Look out Dad, she's going to be running circles around you asking questions in a short short time.

[StassneyHorn 6540]

You could put a leaderboard that shows how many times a poster has reported and we can choose fun names for them.

Something idk like “collection of nuisance threads” or CONT. The top 10 could get a special title like Top CONT under their name.

[Trey3216 15325]

Just now, Mrs Whiggins said:

That young lady has a mind that is going ninety miles an hour, you can see it in her eyes. Look out Dad, she's going to be running circles around you asking questions in a short short time.

There's no doubt.  6 months old and is trying to stand up.  Doing the feet drag crawl because she's already strong enough to 'downward dog' and pull herself along with her feet keeping up.  Modified Bear Crawl I suppose.    She's gonna wear my ass out.    

[Dahobbs 17447]

57 minutes ago, immamac said:

I can do that in a post edit note. 

Personally, I want Surly to be your full time and only job. Also, if you could avoid having a personal life, that would be helpful. It is the only way to be sure. 

[atomheartbevo 89449]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

That's fuckin weird man.

I used to think that, but far too many people these days are locked into some kind of binary/team politics, where you don't get to move around on the political spectrum anymore, or you don't get to select candidates from multiple parties when you vote.  For some, it's turned into "You grew up in this location, therefore you must vote for this party" or "your dad/uncle/whoever is a Republican, you should be a Republican!" or "I can't comprehend how you can't see things differently than the way I see them!"

And the funny thing is, Trump switched parties multiple times, he was a Democrat, was an independent, etc., and if I toss that out there to those folks, it's more of a "Oh, he was just doing that for business reasons!" They can't even use the excuse that he was a Democrat in the 60s/70s and then swung over to the GOP, since he was a Dem in the 2000s while George W. was President.

Hell, these people have forgotten that back in the 80s and into the 90s, Democrats ran Texas.  I like to toss out there that Rick Perry ran Al Gore's campaign in Texas for a little bit of "WTF?"

[RomaVicta 29794]

22 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

...it sickens me how we've become a nation where anyone that doesn't completely agree with everything we think, we must categorize/ostracize them into "the other side" and such.  

 

I'm a barely right of center person.  I have supported criminal justice reform, am firmly against qualified immunity/association of church and state (even though I'm a Christian, gahh!!!)/the War on Drugs/Weaponizing the Police and a host of other things.  I'm for various ideas of flat and national sales taxes and against property/income(outside of flat)/estate taxes.  I'm for a much smaller government, and against excessive government spending, on anything.  I'm for gun ownership, but not against reforms that better track and monitor their ownership.   I don't give 2 shits about someone's sexual preferences/race/religion/ethos, but I'm also not in favor of FEDERAL laws specifically biased towards any specific one or group.   

 

So, in light of that, it makes me sick when people draw a line in the sand before their argument even starts.  I quoted you in the other thread to bring up the point, not to accuse you (and I'm glad you started a thread to discuss it) of anything in particular.  The folks on the far right are equally guilty of drawing lines as the folks on the far left.  

 

The thing is, and I firmly believe this still, that America is still a middle country ...  

Interesting post. I do my best not to pigeon hole posters here unless they do that to themselves (Johnny Sack, GR Horn, Chickensandwich), and I don't hold grudges against those guys. 

You describe yourself as someone who, as far as I can tell, is actually not right of center. You're left of center even though you may be considered a conservative of the old school. Like many here, you've lost your party. Not only that, but your former party is aligning itself and defining itself with America's most degenerate and deleterious traits.

You're in a political world where the stinking Democrats, my party, have become through pure relativity the shining good guys just because they don't hate people of color, they see citizens as basically equal, and they respect America's democratic traditions and institutions. What is left of the GOP has no use for any of that bullshit. They've pulled loose from their anchors on the foundation of what we thought this country was and knuckle-dragged towards fascism.

You probably don't like the Democratic Party. Hell, I don't like it that much myself, but it's how I traditionally vote. I can totally see why you don't want to align yourself with the Dems on real policy issues. But you may have to stand with them on basic foundational beliefs in the American system until a party more suited to you arises.

Your later description of America as a middle country is quaint. So we all believed. We have 70 million voters embracing a would-be autocrat. The same number doesn't care about honesty, respecting the vote, or even weighing different sources of news and information. That's not a traditional GOP-Dem battleground. It's an existential struggle more profound than party politics.

I like your political views. I know you won't become a Dem, and I'm glad that not everybody wants to be a Dem. Many Dems are idiots and cowards and self-serving hogs just like most politicians. They just happen to be on the right side of this whole existential struggle thing this time.

[RomaVicta 29794]

Oh, and I don't give a shit about your children. Any of your children.