Howard University is making a colossal mistake

[Satchel 6908]

I wonder what’s really behind this ill advised idea.

The removal of the classics is a sign that we, as a culture, have embraced from the youngest age utilitarian schooling at the expense of soul-forming education. To end this spiritual catastrophe, we must restore true education, mobilizing all of the intellectual and moral resources we can to create human beings of courage, vision and civic virtue.

Students must be challenged: Can they face texts from the greatest thinkers that force them to radically call into question their presuppositions? Can they come to terms with the antecedent conditions and circumstances they live in but didn’t create? Can they confront the fact that human existence is not easily divided into good and evil, but filled with complexity, nuance and ambiguity?

This classical approach is united to the Black experience. It recognizes that the end and aim of education is really the anthem of Black people, which is to lift every voice. That means to find your voice, not an echo or an imitation of others. But you can’t find your voice without being grounded in tradition, grounded in legacies, grounded in heritages...

https://www.surlyhorns.com/board/index.php?/forum/17-cloak-room/&do=add

 

[Neonmoon 38127]

You know, Frederick fucking Chopin 

[David Dennison 18658]

A lot of people want college to be a vocational school. Some universities are responding accordingly.

[Beau Vine 54001]

59 minutes ago, Satchel said:

https://www.surlyhorns.com/board/index.php?/forum/17-cloak-room/&do=add

????

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

6 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

You know, Frederick fucking Chopin 

Yep, heeeee's yer Huckleberry......

[TwiceHorn 31280]

7 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

????

Now this.  Rated PG.

[Gil Bang 25898]

From the title, I assumed that they were hiring Tom Herman

[Beau Vine 54001]

Can anyone figure out what this thread is about?

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

7 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Can anyone figure out what this thread is about?

Howard university is changing the mascot to the Ducks.  

[formermav43 4599]

7 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Can anyone figure out what this thread is about?

Howard University is making a colossal mistake. It's right there in the title.

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

In before Classics.

[Underdog 28457]

8 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Howard university is changing the mascot to the Ducks.  

Lea Thompson likes this. 

[Beau Vine 54001]

3 minutes ago, Underdog said:

Lea Thompson likes this. 

Beau Vine likes Lea Thompson.

And her daughter Zoey.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Beau Vine

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

28 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Can anyone figure out what this thread is about?

Howard University to dissolve classics department - The Washington Post

[Biff Tannen 45495]

22 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Howard university is changing the mascot to the Ducks.  

[Beau Vine 54001]

12 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Howard University to dissolve classics department - The Washington Post

Thank you. 

This does not seem like a colossal mistake -- there's a big difference between dissolving a department and dissolving a curriculum.  Dissolving a department basically involves getting rid of administrative positions, such as department chairs, assistant chairs, etc.  It doesn't necessarily mean courses are going away. 

 

Edit: 

Quote

Officials determined the classics department, which does not offer a major, could be disbanded and its courses dispersed to other academic units, “which will allow the university to function more effectively and efficiently,” Thomas said.

I mean, shit... seriously?

Edited April 22, 2021 by Beau Vine

[SimonBolivar 10931]

15 hours ago, David Dennison said:

A lot of people want college to be a vocational school. Some universities are responding accordingly.

I get that sentimentally to a certain extent, but when the #1 (or close to it) HBCU drops Classics we are in some shit.

[Js1 85110]

53 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Thank you. 

This does not seem like a colossal mistake -- there's a big difference between dissolving a department and dissolving a curriculum.  Dissolving a department basically involves getting rid of administrative positions, such as department chairs, assistant chairs, etc.  It doesn't necessarily mean courses are going away. 

 

Edit: 

I mean, shit... seriously?

I mean, right?

Wouldn't it end up lumped under, like, idk, the English department or something? 

[Satchel 6908]

56 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Thank you. 

This does not seem like a colossal mistake -- there's a big difference between dissolving a department and dissolving a curriculum.  Dissolving a department basically involves getting rid of administrative positions, such as department chairs, assistant chairs, etc.  It doesn't necessarily mean courses are going away. 

 

Edit: 

I mean, shit... seriously?

Yeah. The Classics Department faculty know what’s coming. It’s no wonder when asked that a large number of college students believe the purpose of a college education is to help secure a well paying job. 

[SimonBolivar 10931]

32 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I mean, right?

Wouldn't it end up lumped under, like, idk, the English department or something? 

I probably would've made much better grades if Latin and Ancient Greek had been in the English department.

[Js1 85110]

5 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

I probably would've made much better grades if Latin and Ancient Greek had been in the English department.

Classical Studies does fall under a lot of English departments. 

If they don't actually offer a major, I don't see why they need their own department. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Js1

[RDCanecutter 26275]

γιατί το σκατά θα ήταν τα κλασικά στα αγγλικά;

[David Dennison 18658]

1 hour ago, SimonBolivar said:

I get that sentimentally to a certain extent, but when the #1 (or close to it) HBCU drops Classics we are in some shit.

I don't disagree.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

3 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

γιατί το σκατά θα ήταν τα κλασικά στα αγγλικά;

That frat has a really long name. 

[workswithseed 2036]

2 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Can anyone figure out what this thread is about?

Black man can't spell Howard.

 

[jw4381 3063]

20 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

γιατί το σκατά θα ήταν τα κλασικά στα αγγλικά;

Is that something your Greek philosopher slave told you?

[pantone159 712]

23 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

γιατί το σκατά θα ήταν τα κλασικά στα αγγλικά;

σκατά και μάθετε

[TwiceHorn 31280]

So, is the stuff quoted by OP in support of a Classics curriculum or opposed?

I suppose the objection to the Classics is that it was white men in white cultures.  Is there an African equivalent?

[DaysOff 7853]

Lots of dumbass white privilege in here. Dad may have spent 150k on your education so you could sit in coffee shops study philosophy, ancient languages, and literature, but that can be had for a library card and a $1.50 in late fees.

Most parents and students have to treat university as a means to a higher paying career given the costs. Hopefully, critical thinking and a broader world view is learned along the way.

[Beau Vine 54001]

4 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

Lots of dumbass white privilege in here. Dad may have spent 150k on your education so you could sit in coffee shops study philosophy, ancient languages, and literature, but that can be had for a library card and a $1.50 in late fees.

Most parents and students have to treat university as a means to a higher paying career given the costs. Hopefully, critical thinking and a broader world view is learned along the way.

Of course that's your contention. You're a first year grad student. You just got finished reading some Marxian historian, Pete Garrison probably, you’re gonna be convinced of that until next month when you get to James Lemon, then you’re gonna be talking about how the economies of Virginia and Pennsylvania were entrepreneurial and capitalist way back in 1740. That's gonna last until next year, you’re gonna be in here regurgitating Gordon Wood, talkin’ about, you know, the Pre-revolutionary utopia and the capital-forming effects of military mobilization.

[freyguy 4245]

4 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Of course that's your contention. You're a first year grad student. You just got finished reading some Marxian historian, Pete Garrison probably, you’re gonna be convinced of that until next month when you get to James Lemon, then you’re gonna be talking about how the economies of Virginia and Pennsylvania were entrepreneurial and capitalist way back in 1740. That's gonna last until next year, you’re gonna be in here regurgitating Gordon Wood, talkin’ about, you know, the Pre-revolutionary utopia and the capital-forming effects of military mobilization.

Is all this necessary to ensure you got my coffee order correct?

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

6 minutes ago, freyguy said:

Is all this necessary to ensure you got my coffee order correct?

Hey, those three guys with liberal arts degrees that started Starbucks are laughing all the way to the bank.

[phdhorn 6224]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I suppose the objection to the Classics is that it was white men in white cultures.  Is there an African equivalent?

That would be a misguided objection.  DNA, cultural artifacts, and a host of other evidence shows that the ancient Greeks and Romans were a potpourri of basically Mideastern, very southern (dark-skinned at the time) Europe, and - wait for it - Non-black African (Egyptian and other Paleo-Phonecian (darker skinned)) types.  There was on average about 2%-4% Caucasian blood ("Caucasian" being truly that, far Southeastern Europe, akin to dark-haired Baltics today).

What we know of as "white guys" (i.e. Angles, Jutes, Nordics, Danes, Slavs, etc.) were far, far away living in stone-age mud huts and slinging shit like in Monty Python/Holy Grail.  They were no way or nowhere involved in the "Classics".  Of course they started picking them up Medieval Europe into the Renaissance.

But, it wouldn't surprise me if some idiot(s) look back and actually think that "white guys" in today's skewed terminolgy ran Greece or Rome.

[RDCanecutter 26275]

2 hours ago, jw4381 said:

Is that something your Greek philosopher slave told you?

Not him. I have a different Greek slave for the σκατά stuff.

Don't judge. Snails and oysters, frater.

[lmao 178]

Is this because The Classics are considered white supremacy or whatever now?

[Satchel 6908]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, is the stuff quoted by OP in support of a Classics curriculum or opposed?

I suppose the objection to the Classics is that it was white men in white cultures.  Is there an African equivalent?

The opinion piece by Cornell West and Jeremy Tate advocates on behalf of retaining the Classics.

[TwiceHorn 31280]

1 hour ago, phdhorn said:

That would be a misguided objection.  DNA, cultural artifacts, and a host of other evidence shows that the ancient Greeks and Romans were a potpourri of basically Mideastern, very southern (dark-skinned at the time) Europe, and - wait for it - Non-black African (Egyptian and other Paleo-Phonecian (darker skinned)) types.  There was on average about 2%-4% Caucasian blood ("Caucasian" being truly that, far Southeastern Europe, akin to dark-haired Baltics today).

What we know of as "white guys" (i.e. Angles, Jutes, Nordics, Danes, Slavs, etc.) were far, far away living in stone-age mud huts and slinging shit like in Monty Python/Holy Grail.  They were no way or nowhere involved in the "Classics".  Of course they started picking them up Medieval Europe into the Renaissance.

But, it wouldn't surprise me if some idiot(s) look back and actually think that "white guys" in today's skewed terminolgy ran Greece or Rome.

Even if it wasn't the product of a purely white culture and white males, it is decidedly Western, so there's that strike against it.

It's a rigorous curriculum, as far as I know.  One of the only people I know with a Classics degree is from OU of all places.  I went to high school with him and he was an undoubtedly smart guy, but a long family history at OU.  Pretty sure he took Latin in high school, so had a leg up there.  I would consider it a pain in the ass to learn two new languages for the first time at the college level.

Does Texas even offer a degree in Classics?

[Js1 85110]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Even if it wasn't the product of a purely white culture and white males, it is decidedly Western, so there's that strike against it.

It's a rigorous curriculum, as far as I know.  One of the only people I know with a Classics degree is from OU of all places.  I went to high school with him and he was an undoubtedly smart guy, but a long family history at OU.  Pretty sure he took Latin in high school, so had a leg up there.  I would consider it a pain in the ass to learn two new languages for the first time at the college level.

Does Texas even offer a degree in Classics?

Classical Languages

Classical Studies

[Js1 85110]

48 minutes ago, lmao said:

Is this because The Classics are considered white supremacy or whatever now?

I mean, OP couldn't even properly post the news from Howard.

Quote

"Howard University has decided to close the Department of Classics as part of its prioritization efforts and is currently negotiating with the faculty of Classics and with other units in the College as to how they might best reposition and repurpose our programs and personnel. These discussions have been cordial, and the faculty remains hopeful that the department can be kept intact at some level, with its faculty and programs still in place." 

Like Beau said, this is a department that doesn't even offer a major.  It can easily be folded into a different program and move staff into that department. 

You can only minor in Classical Civilization, Latin or Ancient Greek.   The last 2 could be folded into World Languages & Culture and the first could be part of English, History or Theater depending on what coursework you pursue (you only have to take 5 classes to qualify for a minor). 

[lmao 178]

58 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I mean, OP couldn't even properly post the news from Howard.

Like Beau said, this is a department that doesn't even offer a major.  It can easily be folded into a different program and move staff into that department. 

You can only minor in Classical Civilization, Latin or Ancient Greek.   The last 2 could be folded into World Languages & Culture and the first could be part of English, History or Theater depending on what coursework you pursue (you only have to take 5 classes to qualify for a minor). 

Ok, I read the WaPo op-ed. Got it confused with this man who wants to "Save The Classics from whiteness"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/02/magazine/classics-greece-rome-whiteness.html

[phdhorn 6224]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Even if it wasn't the product of a purely white culture and white males, it is decidedly Western, so there's that strike against it.

It's a rigorous curriculum, as far as I know.  One of the only people I know with a Classics degree is from OU of all places.  I went to high school with him and he was an undoubtedly smart guy, but a long family history at OU.  Pretty sure he took Latin in high school, so had a leg up there.  I would consider it a pain in the ass to learn two new languages for the first time at the college level.

Does Texas even offer a degree in Classics?

Like most universities, it's probably a history or bach. liberal arts degree. But all these universities offer a classics major, you would graduate say with a ba in history with a major in classics. Harvard, Yale, and Princeton all have classics programs and majors.

I have no problem with a university dumping a classics program per se as long as they offer the classes, or teach about ancient Greece and Rome -which in and of itself has as much to do with our modern term of "whiteness" as we do with life on Pluto.

This thread got off to a rocky and vague start because I think the article he meant to quote was actually in favor of keeping the classics (written by two progressive black guys as well). But I guess I'm addressing more of the idiot who wants to "save" the classics from "whiteness." That's pretty much akin to saying the Babylonians sucked because they probably hated rap music. My god, so stupid.

[Satchel 6908]

My linking to an article favoring retention of the Classics department at Howard was intentional. Wading into the weeds about the inward significance of whiteness was not.

[jw4381 3063]

One of my oldest and dearest friends got a degree in philosophy from UT. He is now one of the most successful brewers in the Lonestar state. 
 

So that type of degree isn’t all bad. 

[Gatorubet 30105]

Can anyone figure out what this thread is about?

People hate welders.

[Js1 85110]

29 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

People hate welders.

Conservative bitch about higher education bureaucracy 

HCBU decides to cut the classics department to streamline operations and fold it into some other departments

Conservatives decry HBCU for being bowing to the woke mob and something something whiteness and culture and history

[hayden_horn 11360]

i have a classical civ minor from texas, so this hits close to home. would've been a major, but i didn't want to do the greek or latin language thing. so i got history and english as a double major with classical civ as a minor. 

i do math mostly in excel for a living.

go figure.

[Bozo_Casanova 26282]

Sic friatur crustulum

[Beau Vine 54001]

4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Sic friatur crustulum

Romanes eunt domus

 

[mchookem 16218]

1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

i have a classical civ minor from texas, so this hits close to home. would've been a major, but i didn't want to do the greek or latin language thing. so i got history and english as a double major with classical civ as a minor. 

i do math mostly in excel for a living.

go figure.

i got a UT liberal arts degree. worked up to/as manager/director level IT positions for 15 years. some of my best staff were LA majors. as far as i'm concerned some of the smartest, most logical and well-balanced people are LA majors.

i ❤ LA 😊