Texas Recruiting Notes 2022 - Idiotic Slapfights Unrelated To 2022 Recruiting

[Dbeasy 15076]

So the argument on Tyler Johnson is that because he had good physical tools, was highly rated by recruiting services, and had offers from top programs that there is no way Texas could possibly have figured out he was a potential bust because it was a mental/drive issue. Huh. 

The whole point of recruiting evaluations is to figure out both physical and mental limitations. That’s the whole point of an evaluation. How do you think Mack in the early days somehow always ended up with good talent? One way was to have his staff get close to the high school teachers and coaching staff to get their honest insights on a player. There are many other ways. 

And as for Alabama and other programs wanting him, I would say that a) no one really knows whether their offers were commit-able,  and b) even if they were commit-able our standard should be to have better evaluations than anyone on Texas talent. Because, you know, we are the Texas state school.

Finally, I was curious about what might have been known about him in high school. By a strange coincidence I have a close friend that is in the administration at his high school. Let me put it this way. With a little research, there would have been a strong recommendation to really vet the player’s drive before bringing him in.

Over 80% of four star players don’t make the NFL. Evaluations matter and can be done better than what Texas has been doing - obviously  

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Dbeasy

[Dr. Teeth 5845]

Probably had a hard time getting his locking opened at school but figured it out.

[GTJ1982 388]

48 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

He will be an intriguing piece to add to the QB room and seems to be improving his footwork, but I see some people saying he has a chance to start next year and something would have to go really, really wrong for that to happen.

Well looking at what we have he does have a "chance".  Hoping we get a transfer QB.   I wouldn't want him starting though.  Ideally going forward no QB will start until they at least been through a redshirt year.  I would prefer RS Sophomore as the perfect timing to start.  

[Hookem2147 21345]

6 minutes ago, Lonestar88 said:

It’s pretty good insight on how the staff feels about certain players. Coburn was pretty much the only junior listed who actually played. Tells you what a disappointment he’s been, and that they’re ready to give guys like Murphy more run.

I don't know the exact number of snaps, but Coburn has seen his playing time steadily decrease the last few weeks.

It's probably slightly bush league that he got put on the senior night list without him knowing but at this point who cares. His effort has told us he doesn't want to really be here.

[UDontKnow 10447]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

That one of them will be gone. Possibly not both. I don't think they force card to xfer he's a serviceable backup if we end up with a good starter. 

5 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

So the argument on Tyler Johnson is that because he had good physician tools, was highly rated by recruiting services, and had offers from top programs that there is no way Texas could possibly have figured out he was a potential bust because it was a mental/drive issue. Huh. 

[NoName 16367]

3 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

And as for Alabama and other programs wanting him, I would say that a) no one really knows whether their offers were commit-able,  and b) even if they were commit-able our standard should be to have better evaluations than anyone on Texas talent. Because, you know, we are the Texas state school.

Finally, I was curious about what might have been known about him in high school. By a strange coincidence I have a close friend that is in the administration at his high school. Let me put it this way. With a little research, there would have been a strong recommendation to really vet the player’s drive before bringing him in.

Over 80% of four star players don’t make the NFL. Evaluations matter and can be done better than what Texas has been doing - obviously 

...oh, you are serious?

https://247sports.com/Player/Tyler-Johnson-88286/high-school-167830/

the guy was a composite top 60 recruit and was highly thought of from 2017 until he signed in 2019. not like he came out of nowhere.

he had offers from everyone in the region + Bama/Florida/FSU/UGA/LSU/Michigan/ND/USC. his secondary recruiter from OU was fucking Lincoln. they offered before Texas and invited him to Jr Day, got an OV.  but sure, Texas didn't do their due diligence on him and everyone would have known he DGAF about football lol ok.

how convenient that you have a connection at his exact high school! and how convenient that you happen to have this information now. how convenient that you didn't ask in 2017 when this was relevant and wait until now when he is leaving.

[Red Five 40877]

14 minutes ago, Lonestar88 said:

It’s pretty good insight on how the staff feels about certain players. Coburn was pretty much the only junior listed who actually played. Tells you what a disappointment he’s been, and that they’re ready to give guys like Murphy more run.

Conversely, Overshown, Jamison, and Cook were the seniors who were not listed, so those are guys the staff really wants back. (They still have extra covid year eligibility)

It would be funny if they also had Casey Cain and Max Merrill walking on senior day. "Man the time just flies by huh guys?"

[Dbeasy 15076]

3 minutes ago, NoName said:

...oh, you are serious?

https://247sports.com/Player/Tyler-Johnson-88286/high-school-167830/

the guy was a composite top 60 recruit and was highly thought of from 2017 until he signed in 2019. not like he came out of nowhere.

he had offers from everyone in the region + Bama/Florida/FSU/UGA/LSU/Michigan/ND/USC. his secondary recruiter from OU was fucking Lincoln. they offered before Texas and invited him to Jr Day, got an OV.  but sure, Texas didn't do their due diligence on him and everyone would have known he DGAF about football lol ok.

how convenient that you have a connection at his exact high school! and how convenient that you happen to have this information now. how convenient that you didn't ask in 2017 when this was relevant and wait until now when he is leaving.

I actually did post his thoughts on Ossai several years ago on surly/shaggy, who was also at Oak Ridge. From his input, I stated in the recruiting thread that I thought he would be our surprise recruit. Feel free to look it up if you want to waste time. I never asked about Johnson until today because I didn’t realize he went to Oak Ridge. Oh and fuck you. 

[NoName 16367]

1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

I actually did post his thoughts on Ossai several years ago on surly/shaggy, who was also at Oak Ridge. From his input, I stated in the recruiting thread that I thought he would be our surprise recruit. Feel free to look it up if you want to waste time. I never asked about Johnson until today because I didn’t realize he went to Oak Ridge. Oh and fuck you. 

man you are over here shitting on evals for a top 60 composite player who spent most of his senior year as a top 40 composite player.

you are acting like if Texas gave a fuck, they too could have known that Johnson cared about other things more than football. you don't seem to understand that if it was a bad mental evaluation, then EVERYONE in the region plus most of the blue bloods nationally missed on it. you act like if they had just asked you, they would have known!

so, no. fuck you for bringing these terrible ass takes to the thread 3 years after the fact.

[UncleBuck 6455]

1 minute ago, NoName said:

then EVERYONE in the region plus most of the blue bloods nationally missed on it. you act like if they had just asked you, they would have known!

Yah, but what you're missing is that the ole retroactive "maybe those were non-committable offers" card has been played. You've been had, Sir!

[AP101S 1480]

19 minutes ago, NoName said:

his secondary recruiter from OU was fucking Lincoln.

NTTAWWT

[Longhornlove 4838]

I got negged for my comments about Tyler Johnson? WTF. Pussy. I never said he wasn't a take, all things at the time said he would be a good player. Having said that, it doesn't mean it wasn't a bad eval either. He obviously isn't good at football since he has started one game in his career and still can't sniff the field. What exactly would be attributed to him not being a competitive football player? Coaching? I guess you are entitled to that but I disagree. He is a bust, that can be attributed to a bad eval, mental, lack of drive or other.

[Dbeasy 15076]

6 minutes ago, NoName said:

man you are over here shitting on evals for a top 60 composite player who spent most of his senior year as a top 40 composite player.

you are acting like if Texas gave a fuck, they too could have known that Johnson cared about other things more than football. you don't seem to understand that if it was a bad mental evaluation, then EVERYONE in the region plus most of the blue bloods nationally missed on it. you act like if they had just asked you, they would have known!

so, no. fuck you for bringing these terrible ass takes to the thread 3 years after the fact.

Your argument that Texas should  blindly follow the recruiting service ratings when it’s well known that these recruiting evaluators a) are wrong all the time, b) often not even qualified to assess players, c) often don’t even consider character and other mental factors, and d) 80% of four star players don’t make the nfl makes you look quite stupid by comparison. I just figured out you are Mack Brown after 2009. Hi Mack. 

[Darth Tron 1123]

So we’re at the point of the season where we argue if benchwarmers were good takes or not? 
 

Here’s my two cents:  Tyler Johnson sucks BECAUSE he came to Texas.  I am certain that if he chose OU he’d have been bulldozing Jett Bush into the secondary this past October on his way to the NFL.

 

Such is life since 2009.

[Longhornlove 4838]

7 minutes ago, Darth Tron said:

So we’re at the point of the season where we argue if benchwarmers were good takes or not? 
 

Here’s my two cents:  Tyler Johnson sucks BECAUSE he came to Texas.  I am certain that if he chose OU he’d have been bulldozing Jett Bush into the secondary this past October on his way to the NFL.

 

Such is life since 2009.

Probably the curse of Mack Brown. Whatever, the dude can't find PT even as shitty as our O-line is, maybe we should cut bait and move on.

[dcar00 14319]

24 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Your argument that Texas should  blindly follow the recruiting service ratings when it’s well known that these recruiting evaluators a) are wrong all the time, b) often not even qualified to assess players, c) often don’t even consider character and other mental factors, and d) 80% of four star players don’t make the nfl makes you look quite stupid by comparison. I just figured out you are Mack Brown after 2009. Hi Mack. 

who did he have offers from?  we aren't blindly following recruiting rankings we are blindly following the really good teams who give offers, that we generally lose to.  do you really think anyone refuses his LOI?

[UncleSonny 6573]

19 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

d) 80% of four star players don’t make the nfl

You keep quoting this statistic like it means recruiting evaluators don't know what they are doing, but what percentage of three star players do you think make the NFL? (it's about 5 or 6 percent).

We go through this every NFL draft when someone will post about how there were more 3* recruits drafted than 4 and 5 stars without understanding that there are literally 5X more three stars ranked every year. The recruiting sites aren't perfect and they miss on guys, but on the whole their rankings are hugely predictive of success both in college and the NFL. 

In the case of Tyler Johnson, sure maybe Alabama was in the position to pass on him based on a weak mental evaluation but Texas sure as shit was/is not.

 

[dcar00 14319]

14 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

Probably the curse of Mack Brown. Whatever, the dude can't find PT even as shitty as our O-line is, maybe we should cut bait and move on.

how do you know we aren't?  because we haven't Jimmy Johnson'd him?

[956 Worldwide 34742]

1 minute ago, UncleSonny said:

You keep quoting this statistic like it means recruiting evaluators don't know what they are doing, but what percentage of three star players do you think make the NFL? (it's about 5 or 6 percent).

We go through this every NFL draft when someone will post about how there were more 3* recruits drafted than 4 and 5 stars without understanding that there are literally 5X more three stars ranked every year. The recruiting sites aren't perfect and they miss on guys, but on the whole their rankings are hugely predictive of success both in college and the NFL. 

In the case of Tyler Johnson, sure maybe Alabama was in the position to pass on him based on a weak mental evaluation but Texas sure as shit was/is not.

 

Look, the task is simple. Do you want to hunt for 7 red jelly beans buried in a jar with 10 yellow jelly beans? Wouldn’t you have better odds finding 20 red jelly beans in a jar with 100 yellow ones? 20>7! That’s math! 

[Elmer_Fudd 22308]

[Tex-19 2872]

1 hour ago, Lonestar88 said:

It’s pretty good insight on how the staff feels about certain players. Coburn was pretty much the only junior listed who actually played. Tells you what a disappointment he’s been, and that they’re ready to give guys like Murphy more run.

Conversely, Overshown, Jamison, and Cook were the seniors who were not listed, so those are guys the staff really wants back. (They still have extra covid year eligibility)

I highly doubt the staff just put Coburn on the senior day list to push him out without telling him. That'd be real shitty. There likely was either a miscommunication when they created the list or Coburn just doesn't want to talk about leaving with the media so said he was surprised.

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13119]

1 hour ago, Hookem2147 said:

It's probably slightly bush league that he got put on the senior night list without him knowing but at this point who cares.

Bush league? I’m sure it wasn’t his first hint. His stupid little dances following his one highlighted play of the game, which probably came in garbage time, was bush league. I wanted him gone at the beginning of the season. He behaves like you’d expect Tom Herman’s son to act.

[Lonestar88 4699]

8 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

In the case of Tyler Johnson, sure maybe Alabama was in the position to pass on him based on a weak mental evaluation but Texas sure as shit was/is not.

 

This is really the only point that matters in this debate. Given our poor recent history recruiting OL, absent legal issues, there was no chance we were going to pass on someone with Johnson’s measurables and potential.

It didn’t work out, but this ain’t even top 50 on the long list of things people should be captain hindsighting on with this team.

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13119]

Wasn’t there a lot of anger on this board about Johnson dropping in the rankings because he didn’t attend camps? Turns out he just didn’t like football.

[ClubWhatever 12154]

Johnson missed a game in HS because he was in my grandmothers quilting group. 

[EastTexan 662]

2 hours ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Talent isn’t this issue, but he was a poor mental evaluation. Kid doesnt love football, and I think that is one thing Sark says they look for when recruiting.

"love football". would be the first thing I would look for.

[D3zii 3708]

6 minutes ago, Coelenterate Fuccboi said:

Wasn’t there a lot of anger on this board about Johnson dropping in the rankings because he didn’t attend camps? Turns out he just didn’t like football.

Yep shoulda seen that red flag from a mile away 

[Sabalo 997]

6 hours ago, Dummy said:

Just went back and listened to Sark's comments they're all butthurt about. Like has been said, it if was intentional, that's gold. I'm more fascinated that Liucci indirectly made Sark's point for him. Jimbo's first year at aggy (9-4 including a bowl win) and all the years since is pretty similar to every aggy season since 2013 (7 or 8 regular season wins), but Jimbo has been faring better in bowl games than late Sumlin, so he's maintained the status quo pretty well without really improving all that much despite the really good recruiting. I'd be happy to trade places with them, but he never ceases to amaze me. 

I listened to the press conference Monday. I heard the line about 3 or for losses in year 4, and chuckled to myself thinking about aggy. I have no idea if it was intentional, but it was sure as hell funny.

[Dbeasy 15076]

The argument you guys are making is that it wasn’t a bad evaluation. By definition that means it was either an okay or good evaluation….for a player that looks to be a bust. That’s a hell of argument to make. 

[Chopper 17242]

I used to enjoy seeing the best of our walk-ons get rewarded with a scholarship. Now I enjoy seeing which of the guys that came here on scholarship are being pushed out.

[Longhornlove 4838]

28 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

how do you know we aren't?  because we haven't Jimmy Johnson'd him?

Maybe we are, I ain't in a position to know. Maybe they think he is salvageable but I highly doubt that because he was passed on the depth chart by multiple guys already that are younger than him.

[Hookem2147 21345]

It's funny talking about Tyler Johnson not liking football because Neto Umeozulu apparently doesn't like football either (his brother likes it way more) and he's one of our top remaining targets.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Hookem2147

[Longhornlove 4838]

2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

The argument you guys are making is that it wasn’t a bad evaluation. By definition that means it was either an okay or good evaluation….for a player that looks to be a bust. That’s a hell of argument to make. 

That's the point I was trying to make. +

[Sgt Hulk 13816]

4 minutes ago, Sabalo said:

I listened to the press conference Monday. I heard the line about 3 or for losses in year 4, and chuckled to myself thinking about aggy. I have no idea if it was intentional, but it was sure as hell funny.

Please don’t interrupt the Tyler Johnson thread 

[RaysBoomBoomRoom 5742]

Its most likely trolling but Jordan Hudson is liking a bunch of Texas stuff

[UncleSonny 6573]

9 minutes ago, Sabalo said:

I listened to the press conference Monday. I heard the line about 3 or for losses in year 4, and chuckled to myself thinking about aggy. I have no idea if it was intentional, but it was sure as hell funny.

 

Looch is still in a lather about what amounts to a vague (kind-of) shot at a&m. Also, he knows Sark's recruiting pitches to the word apparently. 

Hilarious that he paints himself as a master Horn troller while taking the bait at literally anything Texas related. 

[Fondren & Main 6726]

Lol Nate Liucci is a fitting pejorative for that cunt whisker.

[Sgt Hulk 13816]

23 minutes ago, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

Its most likely trolling but Jordan Hudson is liking a bunch of Texas stuff

I want to beleive. But I’ll wager he follows to TCU 

[Lonestar88 4699]

29 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

The argument you guys are making is that it wasn’t a bad evaluation. By definition that means it was either an okay or good evaluation….for a player that looks to be a bust. That’s a hell of argument to make. 

No, we’re just not pretending to be know-it-alls after the fact. The take made sense at the time, we weren’t in a position to be picky.

 

27 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

It's funny talking about Tyler Johnson not liking football because Neto Umeozulu apparently doesn't like football either (his brother likes it way more) and he's one of our top remaining targets.

That’s a good point, and almost everyone on this board wants Neto, because like back then, we aren’t in a position to be picky.

[closetojumping 62765]

3 hours ago, GTJ1982 said:

 

Seems like this board has cooled on Maalik  but he has continued to improve week to week and all in on Texas.  His attitude and positivity seem in infectious and guys gravitate to him in camps.  Will be glad to have him on campus come January.  

I can't buy into any of this until @Burt Macklin makes an appearance to confirm or deny Murphy's improvement.

2 hours ago, Tex-19 said:

I wouldn't force Card out by any means. Worst case, solid backup. Best case, he gets more comfortable Year 2 in the system and could actually become a quality starter. (note: I'm by no means saying you plan on that. You definitely go all-out for a transfer. But at least he has upside.)

We don't need any pusillanimity on this roster going forward. Worst case, he continues to suck and shit himself at the first sign of pressure. Best case, he converts to WR and his tiny hands don't make him completely useless at that position. Anything else is equivocating nonsense. If they're going to be a big dog, they will bite you as a pup.

[closetojumping 62765]

1 hour ago, NoName said:

man you are over here shitting on evals for a top 60 composite player who spent most of his senior year as a top 40 composite player.

you are acting like if Texas gave a fuck, they too could have known that Johnson cared about other things more than football. you don't seem to understand that if it was a bad mental evaluation, then EVERYONE in the region plus most of the blue bloods nationally missed on it. you act like if they had just asked you, they would have known!

so, no. fuck you for bringing these terrible ass takes to the thread 3 years after the fact.

I'm not interested in the overall discussion about whether folks should have known that Tyler Johnson was going to be a bust because of his mental side of things, but I will say that I have a buddy that covers this stuff and his take at the time was basically: "His dad is an executive for a big company (Johnson & Johnson, if memory serves) and the guy hasn't grown up worrying about food or getting out of his neighborhood for a better life. If he wants to play football, he's a great pick-up. " 

So, he wasn't Nostradamus, but he knew enough info for him to have his own caveat. Assume that coaches paid to recruit these guys have their own things they look for and this type of stuff is part of that. Some schools did back off after really grilling Johnson during the process, and I believe Alabama was one of them.

1 hour ago, Tex-19 said:

I highly doubt the staff just put Coburn on the senior day list to push him out without telling him. That'd be real shitty. There likely was either a miscommunication when they created the list or Coburn just doesn't want to talk about leaving with the media so said he was surprised.

This is what trap doors look like. You're being willfully naive with this post. They're actively sending messages. You think Bo Davis is worried about Coburn's feelings after the soft ass shit that fat fuck has pulled? No. Adios motherfucker, don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'. 

[dilloncp98 80]

38 minutes ago, Lonestar88 said:

That’s a good point, and almost everyone on this board wants Neto, because like back then, we aren’t in a position to be picky.

This. We would’ve thrown a riot had Tyler Johnson gone to any other school, especially if we chose to pass on him. 
 

Tyler Johnson likes making films (or some weird shit like that) and actually cares about school. That hasn’t been a reason for us not to pursue in the past (Hayden Connor, our OL losses to Stanford).

Frankly, I question the football focus of any lineman not looking to go to the SEC (especially guys who consider USC and us). Does that mean we shouldn’t pursue guys like Cambell and Neto? God no. We can’t sit here and act like we’re in a position to turn down top 100 OL recruits.

Has Tyler Johnson been a wasted scholarship? Yes. Should we have offered him? Yes. 6’6” 300 Lb athletic tackles don’t grow on trees. Maybe if the last coach hadn’t fed him runny eggs, he would’ve cared more about football.

[Ricky Butler 2731]

Was Coburn the mole?

[Leanderman 2276]

Good to see chinpubes is up to his old standards. What a rube.

[texasstrong12 4668]

4 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

Was Coburn the mole?

No clue but the dude is terrible. He has no explosion at all now. He's a JAG and that's being kind. 

 

[Dbeasy 15076]

This whole argument over Tyler Johnson started when a poster argued it wasn’t a bad eval. That is a very different statement then “we should or shouldn’t have recruited him”.

I agree with other posters that we all would have been unhappy if this top rated recruit didn’t sign with us. And, you can make the argument that they gambled on him and were fine with the gamble.

But it still doesn’t change the fact that at the end of the day it looks like they got it wrong with him. Bad eval. It is what it is, just like Parcells says. You are what you are, no matter how many excuses you want to give.  

 I’ve had enough of the Johnson talk. 

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13119]

1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

 I’ve had enough of the Johnson talk. 

Obviously not.

[mwaadeeb 1234]

1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

I’ve had enough of the Johnson talk. 

What if he's making a film about his big comeback? Better story this way. See the field.

[texasstrong12 4668]

 

1 hour ago, Tex-19 said:

I highly doubt the staff just put Coburn on the senior day list to push him out without telling him. That'd be real shitty. There likely was either a miscommunication when they created the list or Coburn just doesn't want to talk about leaving with the media so said he was surprised.

If we aren’t trap dooring players like Coburn we aren’t serious about winning.  

Edited November 24, 2021 by texasstrong12

[Longhornlove 4838]

 

2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

This whole argument over Tyler Johnson started when a poster argued it wasn’t a bad eval. That is a very different statement then “we should or shouldn’t have recruited him”.

I agree with other posters that we all would have been unhappy if this top rated recruit didn’t sign with us. And, you can make the argument that they gambled on him and were fine with the gamble.

But it still doesn’t change the fact that at the end of the day it looks like they got it wrong with him. Bad eval. It is what it is, just like Parcells says. You are what you are, no matter how many excuses you want to give.  

 I’ve had enough of the Johnson talk. 

Insert Big Johnson joke here .........