Nothing to see here -- just a town declaring a state of emergency before releasing body cam of police shooting!

[Nicole44 22,072]

[TornACL 7,722]

Cops and police unions and city governments have lost the benefit of the doubt. 

You can't play that "Now let's just wait until all the facts are out" bullshit when police departments repeatedly and systematically try to obfuscate the facts and protect their worst. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

40 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

What is controversial about that statement? 

wait you were serious?

[fattyflattie 4,638]

Just now, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

wait you were serious?

Yes. If a cop kills someone and it’s not defensible, the civil suit should come from their pensions.  As part of the public, I’m tired of paying for their fuckups. Maybe that will slow down the “bad apples”.  

[Captainant 27,722]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Yes. If a cop kills someone and it’s not defensible, the civil suit should come from their pensions.  As part of the public, I’m tired of paying for their fuckups. Maybe that will slow down the “bad apples”.  

You'd think so, but cops have individual protection from civil and criminal suits by qualified immunity. The individual cops (and by connection, their pensions) are shielded by the county/city/state so long as they can convince a DA or judge that they acted in good faith.

[Brisketexan 105,205]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You'd think so, but cops have individual protection from civil and criminal suits by qualified immunity. The individual cops (and by connection, their pensions) are shielded by the county/city/state so long as they can convince a DA or judge that they acted in good faith.

Yep.  And there are quite a few folks who would like to see that change, but that's going to take some much bigger work.

That said, we're all getting out ahead of this story.  We haven't received anything CLOSE to the full set of facts yet, which is troubling in and of itself.  But I'm still sitting in a position of not being able to cast any firm opinion yet.  

[hayden_horn 11,365]

the fact that you can juxtapose the release of certain bodycam footage of someone dying instantaneously when it looks good for cops as in columbus, but don't in the north carolina shooting, and then you redact parts of the videos showing the cops' faces, and then you edit it down to a 20 second clip that starts after the shooting starts and then you don't still have a clear timeline of full release and you have 10 cops involved in this shooting, with 7 on administrative leave, 2 having resigned and the last just retired...your shit isn't smelling like roses. 

full disclosure is the best for these departments, even when it looks bad. i think big city pds are getting that, but this is a sheriff's department, and they tend to be a bit.....different. this won't end well. no reason to slow play the inevitable. your dudes fucked up, get ahead of it.

[hobbes2702 13,052]

2 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

the fact that you can juxtapose the release of certain bodycam footage of someone dying instantaneously when it looks good for cops as in columbus, but don't in the north carolina shooting, and then you redact parts of the videos showing the cops' faces, and then you edit it down to a 20 second clip that starts after the shooting starts and then you don't still have a clear timeline of full release and you have 10 cops involved in this shooting, with 7 on administrative leave, 2 having resigned and the last just retired...your shit isn't smelling like roses. 

full disclosure is the best for these departments, even when it looks bad. i think big city pds are getting that, but this is a sheriff's department, and they tend to be a bit.....different. this won't end well. no reason to slow play the inevitable. your dudes fucked up, get ahead of it.

They’d have to agree that their dudes fucked up. In their mind every warrant is a chance to fire your gun. It’s why they became cops. Seriously just look at the firepower ten cops took to serve a warrant. This is why we need a massive reversal in the militarization of police departments 

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

7 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

They’d have to agree that their dudes fucked up. In their mind every warrant is a chance to fire your gun. It’s why they became cops. Seriously just look at the firepower ten cops took to serve a warrant. This is why we need a massive reversal in the militarization of police departments 

True.

[gyroprotagonist 2,594]

local sheriff's office tech guy editing the video like

 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

27 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Yes. If a cop kills someone and it’s not defensible, the civil suit should come from their pensions.  As part of the public, I’m tired of paying for their fuckups. Maybe that will slow down the “bad apples”.  

I thought you were saying that any damages caused by rioting should be paid for by the family of the dude that was killed in the event they get a settlement.

I drank way too much this weekend and am not fully there. Carry on.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

17 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

this won't end well. no reason to slow play the inevitable. your dudes fucked up, get ahead of it.

I think the lawyer’s comment about the sheriff telling him “they aren’t going to be fucking bullied” should tell you everything about their mindset here. They do things a certain way ‘round them parts, and they ain’t gonna let some angry negros change any of that.

[atomheartbevo 89,775]

2 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

NSFW y'all

 

 

Shame we can't make the cops pay for the inevitable damage that will arise from their fuckups.  I'm not talking about settlements with the families, I'm talking about when people take to the streets and shit gets stirred up.

[Brisketexan 105,205]

21 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

the fact that you can juxtapose the release of certain bodycam footage of someone dying instantaneously when it looks good for cops as in columbus, but don't in the north carolina shooting, and then you redact parts of the videos showing the cops' faces, and then you edit it down to a 20 second clip that starts after the shooting starts and then you don't still have a clear timeline of full release and you have 10 cops involved in this shooting, with 7 on administrative leave, 2 having resigned and the last just retired...your shit isn't smelling like roses. 

full disclosure is the best for these departments, even when it looks bad. i think big city pds are getting that, but this is a sheriff's department, and they tend to be a bit.....different. this won't end well. no reason to slow play the inevitable. your dudes fucked up, get ahead of it.

Good post.  But won't happen because....

17 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

They’d have to agree that their dudes fucked up. In their mind every warrant is a chance to fire your gun. It’s why they became cops. Seriously just look at the firepower ten cops took to serve a warrant. This is why we need a massive reversal in the militarization of police departments 

As officers of LAW ENFORCEMENT, their highest and greatest obligation ought to be to the rule of law, and the people they presumably protect and serve.  That is not the case.  Their loyalty and sense of obligation -- almost to the point of exclusivity -- is to the badge and the other people who wear it.  If all of the rest of us have to die so that those who wear the badge can "win," that's absolutely a price they are willing to pay.  Which is, ummm, pretty messed up.

[fattyflattie 4,638]

7 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I thought you were saying that any damages caused by rioting should be paid for by the family of the dude that was killed in the event they get a settlement.

I drank way too much this weekend and am not fully there. Carry on.

Yeah I went back and re-read it after your post and thought that might be the case.  I could have drafted that more clearly. Watch those Victorias, they will fog up the brain. 

[VABuckeye 2,472]

36 minutes ago, Captainant said:

cops have individual protection from civil and criminal suits by qualified immunity.

Well, then let's get rid of that and while we're at it let's get rid of the ridiculous immunity that certain politicians have as well.

[hobbes2702 13,052]

1 minute ago, VABuckeye said:

Well, then let's get rid of that and while we're at it let's get rid of the ridiculous immunity that certain politicians have as well.

There’s a way to do that many people have been shouting for sometime now...

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,346]

45 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

the fact that you can juxtapose the release of certain bodycam footage of someone dying instantaneously when it looks good for cops as in columbus, but don't in the north carolina shooting, and then you redact parts of the videos showing the cops' faces, and then you edit it down to a 20 second clip that starts after the shooting starts and then you don't still have a clear timeline of full release and you have 10 cops involved in this shooting, with 7 on administrative leave, 2 having resigned and the last just retired...your shit isn't smelling like roses. 

full disclosure is the best for these departments, even when it looks bad. i think big city pds are getting that, but this is a sheriff's department, and they tend to be a bit.....different. this won't end well. no reason to slow play the inevitable. your dudes fucked up, get ahead of it.

That's a big problem with where things are now. To release all video immediately moves these things from courts of law to courts of public opinion. Only one side gets to narrate their opinions of what actually happened.  Something has to change, but releasing these asap I don't think helps things. There needs to be a more formal process, whatever that is. 

[hobbes2702 13,052]

3 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

That's a big problem with where things are now. To release all video immediately moves these things from courts of law to courts of public opinion. Only one side gets to narrate their opinions of what actually happened.  Something has to change, but releasing these asap I don't think helps things. There needs to be a more formal process, whatever that is. 

How does only one side get to narrate their opinions of the full video is released? 
Every officer involved shooting that results in death should be require the PD to release the body cam footage within 24 hours. The state shouldn’t be allowed to kill us and then not provide us the opportunity to determine what’s justified.

[JBJ 3,664]

5 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

There needs to be a more formal process, whatever that is. 

That's what NC has.  Only a judge can determine whether to release bodycam footage and only a judge can determine whether to withhold it.

[TwiceHorn 31,520]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

You'd think so, but cops have individual protection from civil and criminal suits by qualified immunity. The individual cops (and by connection, their pensions) are shielded by the county/city/state so long as they can convince a DA or judge that they acted in good faith.

Couple of clarifications here.  "Qualified immunity" applies only in civil cases, and, strictly speaking, civil cases for civil rights violations under 42 USC 1983.

In Texas, PDs and police officers have complete sovereign immunity from tort claims under Texas law, but not to the 1983 claims.  There is no immunity to criminal charges in Texas or anywhere else that I know of.

Some states either waive sovereign immunity for PDs and officers for certain torts relating to excessive use of force, or have their own "special" statutes for cops that create viable civil actions against them, other than the 1983 suit under federal law in federal court.  

Departments and municipalities and counties and other governmental entities ARE NOT liable for the torts of individual officers in 1983 suits, unless it is proven that the city/department had a practice or policy that led to the brutality in question (Monell claim), which is extremely hard to prove.

Whether departments and municipalities can be liable for the actions of individual cops in those states with "cop torts," or that waive sovereign immunity for injury claims, is a matter of state law.  It seems that those states that permit lawsuits against cops under their state laws are pretty rare, because the 1983 suit is the most common vehicle for raising brutality/excessive force claims, by far.

Don't assume that every big judgment in a police brutality case is paid by the taxpayers.  One way or another it might be, but it most often is not the city/department that's paying.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

I have a hypothesis I’d like to test:  Take all the bullets away from police officers and many POS cops would retire within one year.

[EuroHorn 3,268]

4 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

If body cam footage can't be released immediately after any incident (at least to immediate family) there's probably something being hidden.

North Carolina law for body camera release is different from other states.  I believe someone has to petition the court for its release 

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/25/990634265/n-c-sheriff-pushes-to-release-bodycam-footage-in-killing-of-andrew-brown-jr
 

Quote

Under North Carolina law, a judge must generally sign off on the release of law enforcement body camera footage. Leaders of Elizabeth City have demanded the release of the footage, and a coalition of media filed a petition in court to make it public. Governor Roy Cooper has also issued a statement calling for the swift release of the footage.

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by EuroHorn

[Zepol87 9,189]

1 hour ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

That's a big problem with where things are now. To release all video immediately moves these things from courts of law to courts of public opinion. Only one side gets to narrate their opinions of what actually happened.  Something has to change, but releasing these asap I don't think helps things. There needs to be a more formal process, whatever that is. 

That's fair but then don't fucking release shit right away when you know cops are in the clear. Even if justified it looks completely shitty and like they are trying to hide something when the videos clearing them come out right away

[atomheartbevo 89,775]

3 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

North Carolina law for body camera release is different from other states.  I believe someone has to petition the court for its release 

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/25/990634265/n-c-sheriff-pushes-to-release-bodycam-footage-in-killing-of-andrew-brown-jr

So they had a problem with cops doing a lot of shady shit on camera, the police unions lobbied the legislature, and they made it hard to release the footage.

Is that basically right?

[atomheartbevo 89,775]

Just now, Zepol87 said:

That's fair but then don't fucking release shit right away when you know cops are in the clear. Even if justified it looks completely shitty and like they are trying to hide something when the videos clearing them come out right away

It is annoying as hell that if the cops are in the clear, they make damn sure to release the footage right away.

[EuroHorn 3,268]

1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

So they had a problem with cops doing a lot of shady shit on camera, the police unions lobbied the legislature, and they made it hard to release the footage.

Is that basically right?

Maybe. Someone asked the question why it wasn’t released immediately. 

[workswithseed 2,109]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I don't judge any such matter until I've heard from Lebron, Ben Shapiro, Candace Owens, Flavor Flav, and the official government account of the DPRK.   It's what any intellectually honest person would do.

I wait for Brian Stelter and Ibram X Kendi myself.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

9 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

That's fair but then don't fucking release shit right away when you know cops are in the clear. Even if justified it looks completely shitty and like they are trying to hide something when the videos clearing them come out right away

Do they do that in NC?

[Captainant 27,722]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

I wait for Brian Stelter and Ibram X Kendi myself.

Ibram Kendi is not in any way comparable to anyone that you #bothsides him with. But your enthusiasm to already play teams is worth noting. 

[JBJ 3,664]

7 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Do they do that in NC?

Law enforcement can't release them in NC ever.  They can only set up limited viewings which is what happened today. 

Someone has to file a petition and a judge has to hold a hearing to review what can or can't be released.

Edited April 27, 2021 by JBJ

[Deej 76,883]

This is some Mt. Pilot shit. Never would have happened in Mayberry. 

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

3 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Law enforcement can't release them in NC ever.  They can only set up limited viewings which is what happened today. 

Someone has to file a petition and a judge has to hold a hearing to review what can or can't be released.

That's what I thought.  Which is why I don't think it is fair to compare the quick release in Ohio last week to this one.  Now I personally think NC should not have that law unless there is some compelling reason that I have not considered.  

This one sounds bad. I would like to see the full video.  If they are just showing the shots and not what led up to them firing, unless there was some malfunction that they can prove, that looks awful.  The shit that leads up to the time the triggers are pulled is what needs to be evaluated.

[High Plains Drifter 11,050]

4 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

If body cam footage can't be released immediately after any incident (at least to immediate family) there's probably something being hidden.

 

 

Body cam footage should be live streamed to the cloud, and available for live or recorded viewing anytime, anywhere, by anybody. If the cop is on the job, their cameras are live. Enough of this bullshit.

 

 

[JBJ 3,664]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

That's what I thought.  Which is why I don't think it is fair to compare the quick release in Ohio last week to this one.  Now I personally think NC should not have that law unless there is some compelling reason that I have not considered.  

This one sounds bad. I would like to see the full video.  If they are just showing the shots and not what led up to them firing, unless there was some malfunction that they can prove, that looks awful.  The shit that leads up to the time the triggers are pulled is what needs to be evaluated.

The law exists so that a judge and not law enforcement or prosecutors determines what is public information and what needs to be private for investigative or prosecutorial reasons (or for just plain privacy - of bystanders or minors, for example).  Yeah, it is procedurally bogged down, but it exists for exactly what people in this thread are asking for.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

2 minutes ago, JBJ said:

The law exists so that a judge and not law enforcement or prosecutors determines what is public information and what needs to be private for investigative or prosecutorial reasons (or for just plain privacy - of bystanders or minors, for example).  Yeah, it is procedurally bogged down, but it exists for exactly what people in this thread are asking for.

So the judge makes the call?  Does the state/cops have a say?  Because if they are saying "release it" and they do have a say, that should be public.  Same as if they want it withheld.  They are paid by taxpayers and if they take a position on whether the video should be released, the public should know.

[JBJ 3,664]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

So the judge makes the call?  Does the state/cops have a say?  Because if they are saying "release it" and they do have a say, that should be public.  Same as if they want it withheld.  They are paid by taxpayers and if they take a position on whether the video should be released, the public should know.

They have to petition for it's release like anyone else can.  The hearings are public, so if they want a word in we will know what it is.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

2 minutes ago, JBJ said:

They have to petition for it's release like anyone else can.  The hearings are public, so if they want a word in we will know what it is.

Thanks for the info.  Was curious.  I lean towards most shit the government does should be public unless there is a really good reason.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

11 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

 

Body cam footage should be live streamed to the cloud, and available for live or recorded viewing anytime, anywhere, by anybody. If the cop is on the job, their cameras are live. Enough of this bullshit.

 

 

No.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

40 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

No.

Absent the whole “massive infringement on civil rights” it could work. 

[formermav43 4,606]

53 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

 

Body cam footage should be live streamed to the cloud, and available for live or recorded viewing anytime, anywhere, by anybody. If the cop is on the job, their cameras are live. Enough of this bullshit.

 

 

Live viewing of body cams by anyone. Who could foresee any potential problems with that?

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

Just now, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Absent the whole “massive infringement on civil rights” it could work. 

Or the whole fuck the next of kins feelings when they see jr. gunned down on the 11:00 news, or Facebook..

[Nivek 16,961]

 
 
Body cam footage should be live streamed to the cloud, and available for live or recorded viewing anytime, anywhere, by anybody. If the cop is on the job, their cameras are live. Enough of this bullshit.
 
 

Just get a toilet cam dude if that’s what you are into.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Or the whole fuck the next of kins feelings when they see jr. gunned down on the 11:00 news, or Facebook..

Well, back to the drawing board.

[High Plains Drifter 11,050]

21 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Absent the whole “massive infringement on civil rights” it could work. 

 

you take the good with the bad.

 

 

[Deej 76,883]

37 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

you take the good with the bad.

 

 

You take them both and there you have
The facts of life, the facts of life

[atomheartbevo 89,775]

1 hour ago, formermav43 said:

Live viewing of body cams by anyone. Who could foresee any potential problems with that?

People foolishly pay a lot of money thinking they can get mugshots taken off of the internet.

Bet they'd pay a lot in the belief that footage of them being drunk and dealing with LEOs could be scrubbed from the interne.  Instead that footage will end up in a thousand YouTube react videos.

 

[Blotto 23,564]

13 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

People foolishly pay a lot of money thinking they can get mugshots taken off of the internet.

Bet they'd pay a lot in the belief that footage of them being drunk and dealing with LEOs could be scrubbed from the interne.  Instead that footage will end up in a thousand YouTube react videos.

 

 

[InkaUtexas 26,037]

1 hour ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

you take the good with the bad.

 

 

You take the good, you take the bad
You take them both and there you have
The facts of life, the facts of life

[DaggerHorns 3,085]

Everyone in this thread needs a cigarette and Bud Light Clamato.