Nothing to see here -- just a town declaring a state of emergency before releasing body cam of police shooting!

[Cajun 11705]

8 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Can we do the same with teachers, bankers, and govt employees, politicians?

Every protection you reference is a byproduct of the police unions.  Gut them, and you get an immediate lift.  

Yes please.

[seven 1367]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Bad cops AREN'T fired - they're allowed to resign. Which lets them move along to the next town.

And last time I checked, teachers, bankers, and gov't employees (leaving politicians out since they're typically elected) don't make a habit of murdering minorities and hiding the evidence. But sure, bothsides bothsides thin blue line bothsides bothsides.

This is actually quite a problem with teachers who have had inappropriate contact with students. They just resign and move to the neighboring district. 

[Dahobbs 17527]

6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

So once you are fired, you are essentially given a dishonorable discharge and never allowed to work in the field again?  Can we do the same with teachers, bankers, and govt employees, politicians?

Every protection you reference is a byproduct of the police unions.  Gut them, and you get an immediate lift.  

I love that for @BabaYaga teacher's are the scourge of society. 

But, to answer your question, yes, if you abuse your power as a cop you should never be allowed to work as a cop again. 

[Guest Lobo]

I think way too many institutions are emulating the Catholic Church still.  How is that employee model still around?  

[Brisketexan 105082]

8 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Every protection you reference is a byproduct of the police unions.  Gut them, and you get an immediate lift.

Groovy.  Get elected to city council, take the position that in the next contract negotiation with the cops, you are not going to agree to any contract that gives the police union power to control the fate of a bad cop.  Instead, bad cops will be terminated, and reported to the state so that they cannot be a peace officer anywhere in the state.

And proceed to watch yourself be torn to shreds as a soft-on-crime pussy libtard communist, you'll get destroyed in the next election by the pearl-clutching suburbanites who SUPPORT OUR POLICE AND BACK THE BLUE, and none of the shit you proposed actually happens.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

Don't blame the police unions -- they exist and operate the way they do because the majority of voters WANT IT THAT WAY.  The enemy is the majority of Americans, including the entire governing class in our particular state, who want things to be exactly as they are.

[seven 1367]

Because then the employer doesn't have to deal with it 

[Brisketexan 105082]

1 minute ago, Lobo said:

I think way too many institutions are emulating the Catholic Church still.  How is that employee model still around?  

I'm presuming it's God's will.

[InkaUtexas 25875]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

I'm presuming it's God's will.

Inshallah. 

[BabaYaga 15289]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The mental gymnastics to get our little lefty friends to admit that their sacred cow unions are the direct mechanism that protects bad actors and puts up massive barriers to removal is quite entertaining.....

The unions are what shield officers.  Even with mountains of evidence they lock in and make it's a legislative battle to remove them.  But sure....blue line.....

[Captainant 27640]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

The mental gymnastics to get our little lefty friends to admit that their sacred cow unions are the direct mechanism that protects bad actors and puts up massive barriers to removal is quite entertaining.....

The unions are what shield officers.  Even with mountains of evidence they lock in and make it's a legislative battle to remove them.  But sure....blue line.....

go get your shine box, your drinking buddies need a glow-up

[BabaYaga 15289]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Groovy.  Get elected to city council, take the position that in the next contract negotiation with the cops, you are not going to agree to any contract that gives the police union power to control the fate of a bad cop.  Instead, bad cops will be terminated, and reported to the state so that they cannot be a peace officer anywhere in the state.

And proceed to watch yourself be torn to shreds as a soft-on-crime pussy libtard communist, you'll get destroyed in the next election by the pearl-clutching suburbanites who SUPPORT OUR POLICE AND BACK THE BLUE, and none of the shit you proposed actually happens.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

Don't blame the police unions -- they exist and operate the way they do because the majority of voters WANT IT THAT WAY.  The enemy is the majority of Americans, including the entire governing class in our particular state, who want things to be exactly as they are.

You don't have to be on the city council when you own the office of the president and control both houses.....

[Brisketexan 105082]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

The mental gymnastics to get our little lefty friends to admit that their sacred cow unions are the direct mechanism that protects bad actors and puts up massive barriers to removal is quite entertaining.....

The unions are what shield officers.  Even with mountains of evidence they lock in and make it's a legislative battle to remove them.  But sure....blue line.....

Cool.  Let's go political.  Run for office on a proposal that the next contract with the cops and their union will gut the union's power to protect bad cops.  Then, pay attention to the opposition to your plan.  See where it comes from, see where it's funded.  Here's a tiny little hint -- very little of that opposition support will come from the AFL-CIO types.  Almost all of it will come from.....well, exactly where it comes from in this state on that exact issue -- the hard right (Abbott, Patrick, and their base).  I'm not looking to your fantasy world, where police unions are defended by dirty hippies and commies.  I'm talking about the actual world we live in, where the police and every facet of their existence is vehemently protected by the hard right.

[Brothahorn 10087]

I'm disgusted by the size of the Sheriff and his Chief Deputy. They may ride desks, but they are still cops. Those two aren't stopping any crimes unless it occurs at the buffet.

[BabaYaga 15289]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool.  Let's go political.  Run for office on a proposal that the next contract with the cops and their union will gut the union's power to protect bad cops.  Then, pay attention to the opposition to your plan.  See where it comes from, see where it's funded.  Here's a tiny little hint -- very little of that opposition support will come from the AFL-CIO types.  Almost all of it will come from.....well, exactly where it comes from in this state on that exact issue -- the hard right (Abbott, Patrick, and their base).  I'm not looking to your fantasy world, where police unions are defended by dirty hippies and commies.  I'm talking about the actual world we live in, where the police and every facet of their existence is vehemently protected by the hard right.

See my post above.....

[Brisketexan 105082]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

You don't have to be on the city council when you own the office of the president and control both houses.....

Actually, you do.  Almost all law enforcement funding and legal control happens on the local and state level.  The decision on whether or not to enter into a contract with a strong union isn't made in DC -- it's made right here in River City.  You know that.  And you know that proposing any reform gets you attacked -- viciously -- by the right (see the actual legislation supported by Abbott and Patrick right now, in the real world, to punish any city that lifts a finger against its cops).

[Captainant 27640]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Actually, you do.  Almost all law enforcement funding and legal control happens on the local and state level.  The decision on whether or not to enter into a contract with a strong union isn't made in DC -- it's made right here in River City.  You know that.  And you know that proposing any reform gets you attacked -- viciously -- by the right (see the actual legislation supported by Abbott and Patrick right now, in the real world, to punish any city that lifts a finger against its cops).

no, the only way to bring account ability is to destroy every union in the country - haven't you heard??

See the post above /baba

[Hawndoh 2386]

Teachers can lose their license for their state for serious issues. I know of one that did just that. Had to change careers to real estate or something.

And that was just for violating rules about the STAAR test.

But cops can murder folks and then get hired with another department without much trouble.

[BabaYaga 15289]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Actually, you do.  Almost all law enforcement funding and legal control happens on the local and state level.  The decision on whether or not to enter into a contract with a strong union isn't made in DC -- it's made right here in River City.  You know that.  And you know that proposing any reform gets you attacked -- viciously -- by the right (see the actual legislation supported by Abbott and Patrick right now, in the real world, to punish any city that lifts a finger against its cops).

So we can have a top-down, national conversation and sweeping legislative changes about "defunding" the police, but any talk about union changes that protect bad cops have to be the bottom-up.

Good to know...

[BabaYaga 15289]

5 minutes ago, Hawndoh said:

Teachers can lose their license for their state for serious issues. I know of one that did just that. Had to change careers to real estate or something.

And that was just for violating rules about the STAAR test.

But cops can murder folks and then get hired with another department without much trouble.

Then let's get them identification reference numbers similar to an MLS and NMLS #.  Do it tomorrow.

 

[Brisketexan 105082]

9 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

So we can have a top-down, national conversation and sweeping legislative changes about "defunding" the police, but any talk about union changes that protect bad cops have to be the bottom-up.

Good to know...

The "conversation" is national.  But on a federal level, but for some specific funding (see, eg, defense surplus materials) and possible DOJ enforcement against particularly bad PDs, YES, the actual ACTION items are local.  National conversation about a local issue that most every locale in the country has in common -- they have a PD or Sheriff's department.

The "defunding" the police issue isn't about cutting/reallocating federal funding.....that's not where police budgets live.  They are local.  See the governor of TEXAS attacking the city of AUSTIN over possible budget shifts.  Functionally the entire issue is decided on a local level.

That's not a matter of opinion -- the budgets, sources of funding, and the parties on the other side of PD contracts are all a matter of public record.  And in every case, they are local.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Brisketexan

[Captainant 27640]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Then let's get them identification reference numbers similar to an MLS and NMLS #.  Do it tomorrow.

So you're saying that there's not actually a problem with accountability and oversight of local police - and the problem is ACTUALLY with teachers and unions?

[BabaYaga 15289]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

The conversation is national.  But on a federal level, but for some specific funding (see, eg, defense surplus materials) and possible DOJ enforcement against particularly bad PDs, YES, the actual ACTION items are local.

The "defunding" the police issue isn't about cutting/reallocating federal funding.....that's not where police budgets live.  They are local.  See the governor of TEXAS attacking the city of AUSTIN over possible budget shifts.  Functionally the entire issue is decided on a local level.

That's not a matter of opinion -- the budgets, sources of funding, and the parties on the other side of PD contracts are all a matter of public record.  And in every case, they are local.

Again, you're deflecting.  Nobody is asking about budgetary concerns.  We all know they are local.  But their is ZERO national talk about the direct mechanism that protects bad actors.  Zero.  None.  Nada.  On either side.  This entire conversation is a series of disingenuous talking points until you address the single, direct bureaucratic roadblock that insulates and provides cover for bad actors and makes firing them extremely difficult.  

Flip over the log, the roaches scatter.  Sunlight.  Disinfectant.  Again.  

[hayden_horn 11362]

i love how yall latched onto the north carolina law about the release of video.

if the cops wanted it out, it would be out. they are obstructing release for a reason. i'll let yall come to your own conclusions.

Quote

CAN THE SHERIFF’S OFFICE RELEASE THE VIDEO ON ITS OWN?
No law enforcement agency in North Carolina has the unilateral power to release body camera video.

But an agency can initiate the process of release on its own. To do that, a police or sheriff’s department has to petition the court — again without paying a fee.

A judge then reviews the video and decides whether to release it during a public hearing.

Again, Tadych said, judges have “an enormous amount of discretion” here.

But in his experience, this is typically the fastest way to get the video in the hands of the public.

“It could be a matter of hours or just a couple of days,” he said.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/crime/article250901119.html

they don't want it out and are playing hardball. wonder why.

[BabaYaga 15289]

2 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i love how yall latched onto the north carolina law about the release of video.

if the cops wanted it out, it would be out. they are obstructing release for a reason. i'll let yall come to your own conclusions.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/crime/article250901119.html

they don't want it out and are playing hardball. wonder why.

We know why

[Brisketexan 105082]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Again, you're deflecting.  Nobody is asking about budgetary concerns.  We all know they are local.  But their is ZERO national talk about the direct mechanism that protects bad actors.  Zero.  None.  Nada.  On either side.  This entire conversation is a series of disingenuous talking points until you address the single, direct bureaucratic roadblock that insulates and provides cover for bad actors and makes firing them extremely difficult.  

Flip over the log, the roaches scatter.  Sunlight.  Disinfectant.  Again.  

Union agreements are 100% a product of agreement between 1) a PD and 2) the local gov't entity.  That's it.  That's where they live.  Thus, that's where they need to be resolved.

And again, I urge you to run for local office in Texas on a platform of "fixing our contract with our cops to take away the power of the police union."  Then pay attention to where the strident opposition comes from.  Everyone here, including you, knows where it would come from.

No need to use your imagination, by the way.....

[Gatorubet 30189]

Well ten cops...it is obvious whatever transpired can’t be shared without editing.

I had a shooting death case where the “report” was not issued until after the statute of limitations had passed. I filed in state court right before, with no evidence. I told the judge at the no cause of action motion that not releasing a report for a year was res ipsa for a cover-up. She ordered production of the report. They lied more than normal in it, and we eventually settled after trial.

Not released means bad for cops. Almost always.

[BabaYaga 15289]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Union agreements are 100% a product of agreement between 1) a PD and 2) the local gov't entity.  That's it.  That's where they live.  Thus, that's where they need to be resolved.

And again, I urge you to run for local office in Texas on a platform of "fixing our contract with our cops to take away the power of the police union."  Then pay attention to where the strident opposition comes from.  Everyone here, including you, knows where it would come from.

No need to use your imagination, by the way.....

Again, you are deflecting for the 3rd time and hiding behind this simplistic implementation reasoning.  If we can have a national "defund" discussion, we can damn well have one of unions and qualified immunity that protect bad actors and make removing them almost impossible.

Chauvin had EIGHTEEN prior complaints filed against him and yet still had a job.  18!  That's no thin blue line bullshit, those are registered, documented occurrences, and yet he still had a job.  Why?  We know why?

[Hawndoh 2386]

19 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Then let's get them identification reference numbers similar to an MLS and NMLS #.  Do it tomorrow.

 

Teachers already have a number in Texas from TEA that would follow them from district to district. 

If TEA strips your license, you aren't getting that back the next county over.

So I'm not sure what it is you are wanting that isn't already in place.

[TXSooner518 2438]

53 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

So once you are fired, you are essentially given a dishonorable discharge and never allowed to work in the field again?  Can we do the same with teachers, bankers, and govt employees, politicians?

Every protection you reference is a byproduct of the police unions.  Gut them, and you get an immediate lift.  

If you are fired for something that shows you don't have the capacity to do the job, sure. Try getting another job as a banker if you steal from your bank. Or getting another job as a teacher if you beat the shit out of a kid. Should be the same if you show you aren't capable of correctly using force as a cop.

[BabaYaga 15289]

Just now, Hawndoh said:

Teachers already have a number in Texas from TEA that would follow them from district to district. 

If TEA strips your license, you aren't getting that back the next county over.

So I'm not sure what it is you are wanting that isn't already in place.

Not talking about teachers - apply the same licensing and registration steps to LEO's as we do with so many other professions.

[BabaYaga 15289]

1 minute ago, TXSooner518 said:

If you are fired for something that shows you don't have the capacity to do the job, sure. Try getting another job as a banker if you steal from your bank. Or getting another job as a teacher if you beat the shit out of a kid. Should be the same if you show you aren't capable of correctly using force as a cop.

100%  Do it tomorrow

[Hawndoh 2386]

Oh. I guess I've been misreading your posts all this time or confusing them with someone else.

Sure, I think it would be great if bad cops could be prevented from getting new jobs elsewhere.

[Cajun 11705]

45 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I love that for @BabaYaga teacher's are the scourge of society. 

But, to answer your question, yes, if you abuse your power as a cop you should never be allowed to work as a cop again. 

They may not be the scourge, but just like cops, they aren't heroes either.  Maybe some here and there actually are, but not as a whole.

Plenty of bullshit within their ranks.

Plenty.

[Cajun 11705]

3 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

 Try getting another job as a banker if you steal. 

fify

Edited April 27, 2021 by Cajun
Of course, that means if you're caught and it's on your record. Ain't happening.

[Brisketexan 105082]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

Again, you are deflecting for the 3rd time and hiding behind this simplistic implementation reasoning.  If we can have a national "defund" discussion, we can damn well have one of unions and qualified immunity that protect bad actors and make removing them almost impossible.

Chauvin had EIGHTEEN prior complaints filed against him and yet still had a job.  18!  That's no thin blue line bullshit, those are registered, documented occurrences, and yet he still had a job.  Why?  We know why?

Absolutely.....and I'm not deflecting shit.  Are you under some illusion that the national conversation has NOT included the issue of cops having too much protection as a result of their local contracts/agreements?   Are you fucking serious?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/us/police-unions-contracts-shielding-bad-cops-invs/index.html

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-police-union-power-helped-increase-abuses

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapolis-kroll.html

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-police-unions/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/09/police-union-says-dont-protect-bad-cops-amid-protests-reform-calls/5323847002/

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-06-16/police-unions-contracts-misconduct

 

And I could post dozens more.  It's a fucking huge and central topic in the NATIONAL conversation that you think is so important, yet somehow ignoring it. 

[BabaYaga 15289]

1 minute ago, Cajun said:

They may not be the scourge, but just like cops, they aren't heroes either.  Maybe some here and there actually are, but not as a whole.

Plenty of bullshit within their ranks.

Plenty.

Adverse selection is in play for both.  Too easy to be either, so less qualified applicants who can't find employment elsewhere often self-select into the role while more qualified people who can make more elsewhere self-select out.  Not applicable to all, but it does for many.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Again, you are deflecting for the 3rd time and hiding behind this simplistic implementation reasoning.  If we can have a national "defund" discussion, we can damn well have one of unions and qualified immunity that protect bad actors and make removing them almost impossible.

Chauvin had EIGHTEEN prior complaints filed against him and yet still had a job.  18!  That's no thin blue line bullshit, those are registered, documented occurrences, and yet he still had a job.  Why?  We know why?

I am not sure 18 complaints for a street cop in 20 years is that remarkable.  If there was anything of substance to those complaints, pretty sure someone would have publicized them.

Public sector unions weren't really a thing until the late 50s and early 60s, and were created by executive orders at the state and federal level.  They should be abolished.

[Bullneck 19073]

21 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

We do? Or is it a common denominator? 
 

Is this not how government works? Tax the shit out of you, fine you for bullshit, come after your credit, or freedom and then some. Have to hire a lawyer. That’s expensive. Or plea out. Go to jail. Financing someone else. Or maybe government works like claim to give a shit about you. Exploit you. Use you for a cause that matters very little to anyone on either side of the aisle because: profit. 

I take it you love Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.

[Dahobbs 17527]

6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Again, you are deflecting for the 3rd time and hiding behind this simplistic implementation reasoning.  If we can have a national "defund" discussion, we can damn well have one of unions and qualified immunity that protect bad actors and make removing them almost impossible.

Chauvin had EIGHTEEN prior complaints filed against him and yet still had a job.  18!  That's no thin blue line bullshit, those are registered, documented occurrences, and yet he still had a job.  Why?  We know why?

Are you under the impression that there hasn't been a national conversation about "qualified immunity" and "police unions?" 

Here are some articles on police unions:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-police-union-power-helped-increase-abuses

https://scholar.law.colorado.edu/articles/1295/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-problem-with-police-unions-11591830984

https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-trouble-with-police-unions

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapolis-kroll.html

https://theconversation.com/why-police-unions-are-not-part-of-the-american-labor-movement-142538

And here is information on the bill passed by the House to get rid of qualified immunity:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2021/03/04/house-passes-new-bill-to-abolish-qualified-immunity-for-police/

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/25/politics/qualified-immunity-police-reform-bill-bush-capito-cnntv/index.html

Who do you think opposes reforms to police unions and qualified immunity?

[BabaYaga 15289]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

They should be abolished.

They should.  Articles citing their play into these roles is very different from legislation omitting any mechanisms to curb their power and influence.  The legislation that mandates a national LEO registry is a step in the right direction, but for all the bluster, nothing directly curbing the union influence makes it over the goal line.  

[Cajun 11705]

49 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool.  Let's go political.  Run for office on a proposal that the next contract with the cops and their union will gut the union's power to protect bad cops.  Then, pay attention to the opposition to your plan.  See where it comes from, see where it's funded.  Here's a tiny little hint -- very little of that opposition support will come from the AFL-CIO types.  Almost all of it will come from.....well, exactly where it comes from in this state on that exact issue -- the hard right (Abbott, Patrick, and their base).  I'm not looking to your fantasy world, where police unions are defended by dirty hippies and commies.  I'm talking about the actual world we live in, where the police and every facet of their existence is vehemently protected by the hard right.

You know, you could fold this paper thesis over and on the other side is Adler/COA/all the stupid shit going on in ATX and the voters who keep the merry-go-round circling right down the drain.  You know, the pearl clutchers saving blind salamanders and emoting all over the place?

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Cajun

[workswithseed 2095]

44 minutes ago, Captainant said:

no, the only way to bring account ability is to destroy every union in the country - haven't you heard??

See the post above /baba

Yes, to have better accountants we must destroy every union. 

[Pato del Muerto 52487]

This may sound harsh to some, but my position is that if a teacher kills a child via firearm or restraint hold for not following instructions, not following them fast enough, or not following them correctly, that teacher shouldn’t be allowed to resign with pension intact and free to teach again at a neighboring district. I’m hard line on this and I don’t care who knows it. 

[pacman 7355]

50 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

The mental gymnastics to get our little lefty friends to admit that their sacred cow unions are the direct mechanism that protects bad actors and puts up massive barriers to removal is quite entertaining.....

The unions are what shield officers.  Even with mountains of evidence they lock in and make it's a legislative battle to remove them.  But sure....blue line.....

This is a bit confusing. Police unions and their negotiated protections would affect internal discipline only. Yes, you certainly have it correct their. I can't imagine anybody is arguing otherwise.

Police union contracts have zero control over criminal punishment of police. They have zero control over DA bringing charges, grand juries agreeing to prosecute, etc and, of course, 5h3 public opinion.

The most key witnesses in Chauvin's trial were his own fellow officers and Chief. Despite that mountain of support against Chauvin, a certain base of the country almost unanimously considered his guilty verdict a sham.

To Brisket's point, that is far more powerful and enabling than any union contract.

[jeevsie 3733]

2 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

agree, but how do we forecast 90% correctly evil intent in advance? Look at the Indianapolis shooter. No way in hell should he have had weapons, but he did. 

[Cajun 11705]

Short guys feeling up pretend titties?

[workswithseed 2095]

3 minutes ago, Cajun said:

Short guys feeling up pretend titties?

He's in the closet, bro.

[BabaYaga 15289]

2 minutes ago, pacman said:

This is a bit confusing. Police unions and their negotiated protections would affect internal discipline only. Yes, you certainly have it correct their. I can't imagine anybody is arguing otherwise.

Police union contracts have zero control over criminal punishment of police. They have zero control over DA bringing charges, grand juries agreeing to prosecute, etc and, of course, 5h3 public opinion.

The most key witnesses in Chauvin's trial were his own fellow officers and Chief. Despite that mountain of support against Chauvin, a certain base of the country almost unanimously considered his guilty verdict a sham.

To Brisket's point, that is far more powerful and enabling than any union contract.

It is.  My point is that is a major component piece in the struggle to remove bad actors.  To the point about punishment, they are the shield covering LE's actions and give them cover.  Weaken that cover is a huge step in accountability.

Take what happened in Camden, NJ when they fired 100% of the cops, then rehired them on the condition of much weaker union protections.  The results were impressive.  For one, the cost-per-officer was cut IN HALF, allowing them to double their force.  Murders went down.  Crime went down.  

[Brisketexan 105082]

5 minutes ago, Cajun said:

You know, you could fold this paper thesis over and on the other side is Adler/COA/all the stupid shit going on in ATX and the voters who keep the merry-go-round circling right down the drain.  You know, the pearl clutchers saving blind salamanders and emoting all over the place?

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Are you surprised to get no disagreement from me?  Then be surprised.

I actually reach an opposite conclusion as to the core issue than Baba and his pals do, though.  We aren't getting shitty government because it's unaccountable to the people.  We're getting shitty government -- whether it be local governments that fellate police unions because you gotta be "strong on law and order," or local governments that waste fortunes on bike lanes and expensive homeless hotels that solve nothing -- BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE ASK FOR AND VOTE FOR.

The problem is not nearly so much that our governments aren't accountable to the will of the voters.  Rather, it's that our local governments are doing exactly what their voters want.  It feels good to point at our gov't leaders and blame them for our shitty outcomes.  But when they are just doing what the voting majority wants them to do....well, we don't like to look at ourselves as the proper folks to blame, because that sucks.  But it has never not been true: we have met the enemy, and he is us.

We have shitty, abuse PDs that are protected from meaningful scrutiny or consequences because WE WANT IT THAT WAY.

We have wasteful bike lanes and homeless policies because WE WANT IT THAT WAY.

The problem with America is Americans.

[BabaYaga 15289]

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The problem with America is Americans.

I've come to claim my right of prima nocte