Are all Restaurants Understaffed now (2021)?

[BabaYaga 15320]

2 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Yes, very much so! JFC if you think restaurants can't find adequate staff because of unemployment benefits then you fundamentally do not understand the root problems in the industry.

The staffing issue was a well-known and widely-discussed problem before Covid struck. Staffing shortages were widespread in Austin because of low-pay, long or undesirable shift hours, and a glut of industry jobs due to the glut of establishments operating across the area. The overwhelming norm in the industry was to pay employees shitty wages and treat them as disposable employees who could be easily replaced. For most restaurants, employee retention was increasingly difficult because the industry norm is to not offer adequate pay, benefits, or stability yet expect loyalty just because you gave someone a job. Unless you're a salaried employee you won't get sick days, you're expected to work even when sick, you aren't offered paid vacation, and you aren't offered a 401k plan. It took the ACA to mandate employee health insurance offerings ferfucksake! And if you are a salaried employee, those benefits come at a price of very long hours for modest pay that employees in other sectors would balk at. When covid hit it just reminded restaurant employees who were already used to being overworked, underpaid and/or treated like shit by ownership, management-- and most of all the general public--how valued they weren't. Now that they need employees to fill their open positions, instead of pointing the blame at the unemployment insurance system they would do well to remind themselves of the money they received in PPP loans and then take a long look at their operational procedures, pay structure, benefits, and company environment and learn from past mistakes. 

 

And you fundamentally don't understand economics.  But cool story about these predatory restaurants getting their comeuppance.  

[ChickenSandwich 9852]

5 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Yes, very much so! JFC if you think restaurants can't find adequate staff because of unemployment benefits then you fundamentally do not understand the root problems in the industry.

The staffing issue was a well-known and widely-discussed problem before Covid struck. Staffing shortages were widespread in Austin because of low-pay, long or undesirable shift hours, and a glut of industry jobs due to the glut of establishments operating across the area. The overwhelming norm in the industry was to pay employees shitty wages and treat them as disposable employees who could be easily replaced. For most restaurants, employee retention was increasingly difficult because the industry norm is to not offer adequate pay, benefits, or stability yet expect loyalty just because you gave someone a job. Unless you're a salaried employee you won't get sick days, you're expected to work even when sick, you aren't offered paid vacation, and you aren't offered a 401k plan. It took the ACA to mandate employee health insurance offerings ferfucksake! And if you are a salaried employee, those benefits come at a price of very long hours for modest pay that employees in other sectors would balk at. When covid hit it just reminded restaurant employees who were already used to being overworked, underpaid and/or treated like shit by ownership, management-- and most of all the general public--how valued they weren't. Now that they need employees to fill their open positions, instead of pointing the blame at the unemployment insurance system they would do well to remind themselves of the money they received in PPP loans and then take a long look at their operational procedures, pay structure, benefits, and company environment and learn from past mistakes. 

 

The service industry labor Pre-Covid had much more to do with opportunity than with wages. Austin per capita food and drink expenditure is one of the highest in the nation, but any server, good or bad, can simply walk down the street and find another job. The amount of new restaurants and bars (and turnover of other restaurants going oob) created Pre Covid was unsustainable and a good majority were done in less than 12 months anyway. 

[Chopper 17245]

3 hours ago, irishtexan said:

Perhaps - and I'm just spitballing here - a business model in which you can't afford to make a profit unless you rig the system to pay your employees 1/4 of the minimum wage without benefits, but then struggle to attract or retain employees, is a flawed business model. 

 

I tried looking up how much the average restaurant check has changed in the past 10 or 20 years. My sense from dining out is that the average bill has not gone up as fast as the rate of inflation, certainly not as fast as housing prices, and therefore the take home pay for restaurant work has fallen in comparison with hourly wages.

Speaking of people who were slugging it out in the restaurant business pre-covid but got out of it early last year, just on my single block alone the adult children of 2 of my neighbors have decided to try other careers. One was a cook and is now a plumber's apprentice, the other was a chef and is now in the brewing industry. This same scenario is playing out all over the country.

1 hour ago, Hook1997 said:

These businesses have often been shut down part of the last year and are barely getting by...   But a lot of y’all’s solution is just pay more, you know how I know you don’t own a business?  

You know how I know you don't have a fucking clue?

[BabaYaga 15320]

5 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

The service industry labor Pre-Covid had much more to do with opportunity than with wages. Austin per capita food and drink expenditure is one of the highest in the nation, but any server, good or bad, can simply walk down the street and find another job. The amount of new restaurants and bars (and turnover of other restaurants going oob) created Pre Covid was unsustainable and a good majority were done in less than 12 months anyway. 

It's not just the service/food/beverage industry.  Everyone acts like they are this predatory subset of the economy chewing up and spitting out workers.

It's most small businesses.  More than a third of which are actively indicating they are unable to full workers below a clear price point of that $20-$25/hr range.

Results of that NFIB report also found that nearly 60% of manufacturing firms and almost 70% of construction firms received either few or no qualified applicants for their skilled-position openings.  Manufacturing is facing a glut of almost 53%, or 2+ millions works on the next decade.  

Additionally, according to the Associated General Contractors of America, roughly 81% of construction firms believe it’ll either continue to be hard or become even harder to find skilled workers over the next year.

What this is doing is removing market competition for larger corporations by decimating small businesses who have a very different cost structure than a corporation or franchise.  

[BabaYaga 15320]

14 minutes ago, Chopper said:

My sense from dining out is that the average bill has not gone up as fast as the rate of inflation, certainly not as fast as housing prices,

This is why the CPI excludes food/beverages, energy, etc.  They are too volatile.  

*The Fed has been saying they think the inflation spike right now is temporary, an effect of the economy reopening after Pandemic and a built up demand vs disrupted supply dynamic is cause rising costs. They could be wrong though, or not. We will have to see over next few months if prices begin to stabilize or not.

Edited May 12, 2021 by BabaYaga

[Chopper 17245]

11 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

This is why the CPI excludes food/beverages, energy, etc.  They are too volatile.  It's up 3+% BTW and climbing (CPI)

I'm talking about the average restaurant bill per person, not f&b directly but obviously related. Customers can change their behavior (what they order, where they order) to keep their bill in a comfortably low range. The average restaurateur has a strong motivation to keep costs and menu prices low and there are several strategies to achieve that. The result is a restaurant server's wage (aka gratuities expressed as a fixed percentage of the restaurant bill) doesn't keep pace with the actual cost of living and not just CPI.

edit: because wage growth has been quite low for an extended time, my sense is that this cycle has been particularly brutal.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Chopper

[workswithseed 2111]

6 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Pay more

Don't type too much there. You weren't programmed to have nuanced takes yet.

[BabaYaga 15320]

10 minutes ago, Chopper said:

I'm talking about the average restaurant bill per person, not f&b directly but obviously related. Customers can change their behavior (what they order, where they order) to keep their bill in a comfortably low range. The average restaurateur has a strong motivation to keep costs and menu prices low and there are several strategies to achieve that

That gets back to the earlier price elasticity comments and gets into the deeper fixed and variable cost structure comparison between small and corporate businesses.  Smaller are obviously much more agile and can and do react quickly, but are struggling against the market distortions these checks are exacerbating.

Quote

The result is a restaurant server's wage (aka gratuities expressed as a fixed percentage of the restaurant bill) doesn't keep pace with the actual cost of living and not just CPI.

Which we always see in an inflationary market, and is not limited to tips/gratuity.  If fixed wages do not reset with the rising markets, anyone not seeing an appreciable lift will suffer.  

Edited May 12, 2021 by BabaYaga

[Chopper 17245]

 

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

That gets back to the earlier price elasticity comments and gets into the deeper fixed and variable cost structure comparison between small and corporate businesses.  Smaller are obviously much more agile and can and do react quickly, but are struggling against the market distortions these checks are exacerbating.

 

We haven't had an inflationary market since, oh I don't know, maybe 1990? 

When I took econ we learned the difference between causal and correlation. Given the takes of some of the self-professed economic analysis geniuses on this board, it appears they may have stopped teaching that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Which we always see in an inflationary market, and is not limited to tips/gratuity.  If fixed wages so you reset with the rising markets, anyone not seeing an appreciable lift will suffer.  

 

[BabaYaga 15320]

5 minutes ago, Chopper said:

We haven't had an inflationary market since, oh I don't know, maybe 1990? 

Take it up with the CPI you sophomoric cock bag:

According to the Consumer Price Index (CPI), prices are up 4.2 percent from last year. Gains were at their highest level since September 2008, stoking new inflation fears. Prices have risen dramatically since the pandemic began last year. The most significant increase was in energy prices, which increased by 25%, followed by used cars and trucks, which increased by 21%. After two months of consecutive declines, prices increased by nearly 2%.

[Chopper 17245]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Take it up with the CPI you sophomoric cock bag:

According to the Consumer Price Index (CPI), prices are up 4.2 percent from last year. Gains were at their highest level since September 2008, stoking new inflation fears. Prices have risen dramatically since the pandemic began last year. The most significant increase was in energy prices, which increased by 25%, followed by used cars and trucks, which increased by 21%. After two months of consecutive declines, prices increased by nearly 2%.

Sorry but I don't much care for screaming and panicking like a little bitch. Interest rates still low af.

[BabaYaga 15320]

8 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Sorry but I don't much care for screaming and panicking like a little bitch. Interest rates still low af.

LOL.  Tough guy.  Guessing you missed this a few posts back.  Like I said.  fucking cock bag....

*The Fed has been saying they think the inflation spike right now is temporary, an effect of the economy reopening after Pandemic and a built up demand vs disrupted supply dynamic is cause rising costs. They could be wrong though, or not. We will have to see over next few months if prices begin to stabilize or not.

[Gourmand 7774]

55 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

And you fundamentally don't understand economics.  But cool story about these predatory restaurants getting their comeuppance.  

Why don't you kindly take your condescension and unkindly shove it up your ass? 

Granted, I don't have a degree in econ, but I've managed and run restaurants for many years so I know very well the P&Ls and the expected food/bev/labor costs. I know the culture and I can safely say that I can speak expertly on it. This fundamental staffing problem is rooted in the pay structure, lack of benefits, and most importantly work environment. A restaurant that laid off its staff and then blames temporary unemployment benefits (which btw many industry workers did not receive) as the reason it can't get them back is a restaurant that didn't value its staff enough to not have that problem once it needed to rehire. 

 

 

[Hook1997 5402]

1 hour ago, Chopper said:

 

You know how I know you don't have a fucking clue?

This was replying to a post about businesses that were paying employees $15-$20 a hour, please tell how I have no clue?  The answer for struggling businesses that can’t find employees because of unemployment is not for them to have to offer $25 a hour to entice employees back that they can’t afford.....   Many posters have cited examples of this on this thread.   

Edited May 12, 2021 by Hook1997

[BabaYaga 15320]

3 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

This was replying to a post about businesses that were paying employees $15-$20 a hour, please tell how I have no clue?  The answer for struggling businesses that can’t find employees because of unemployment is not for them to have to offer $25 a hour to entice employees back that they can’t afford.....   Many posters have sites examples of this on this thread.   

@Gourmand read this.  Then read it again, and again, and again.

[Gourmand 7774]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

@Gourmand read this.  Then read it again, and again, and again.

Do you have any idea what most restaurants were paying employees in Austin before Covid hit? You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. 

[Gourmand 7774]

9 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

This was replying to a post about businesses that were paying employees $15-$20 a hour, 

[Hook1997 5402]

8 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Do you have any idea what most restaurants were paying employees in Austin before Covid hit? You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. 

You obviously didn’t go back and read the posts on the last page or the ones before....   This wasn’t restaurant workers, it was other small businesses. Try reading next time before you jump to conclusions.

it was post like this that people said pay more to..

Also I don't deal in the restaurant industry so I cannot speak to that.  What I can speak to is that jobs in the 15-25/hr range have been VERY hard for us to fill due to extended unemployment benefits.  That is MY experience and nothing more.  If anyone thinks people would rather go to work than sit on the couch for the same money then we live in different Americas.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Hook1997

[BabaYaga 15320]

8 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

You obviously didn’t go back and read the posts on the last page or the ones before....   This wasn’t restaurant workers, it was other small businesses. Try reading next time before you jump to conclusions.

it was post like this that people said pay more to..

Also I don't deal in the restaurant industry so I cannot speak to that.  What I can speak to is that jobs in the 15-25/hr range have been VERY hard for us to fill due to extended unemployment benefits.  That is MY experience and nothing more.  If anyone thinks people would rather go to work than sit on the couch for the same money then we live in different Americas.

The herp-a-derp is strong on this thread.  Jesus people, these payments impact almost all small businesses as I cited a few posts back.  

[Neonmoon 38130]

This thread and the 6th street Inflation thread are really fun. It’s a lot of people throwing wads of shit panic at the wall and really smart people like @washparkhorn explaining why they don’t know shit about inflation, CPI, wages, etc. 

 

[Gourmand 7774]

29 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

You obviously didn’t go back and read the posts on the last page or the ones before....   This wasn’t restaurant workers, it was other small businesses. Try reading next time before you jump to conclusions.

it was post like this that people said pay more to..

Also I don't deal in the restaurant industry so I cannot speak to that.  What I can speak to is that jobs in the 15-25/hr range have been VERY hard for us to fill due to extended unemployment benefits.  That is MY experience and nothing more.  If anyone thinks people would rather go to work than sit on the couch for the same money then we live in different Americas.

When you said "businesses" in the context of this restaurant thread, I took that to mean restaurant businesses. Mea culpa, sorry my dude. 

But back to the context of this thread, the fact that most restaurants weren't paying $15/hr before Covid to their hourly employees and don't come anywhere close to $20+/hr after it's no surprise that they're struggling to fill open hourly positions. That struggle has far more to do with the underlying labor problems endemic to the restaurant industry than the fact that some of them are receiving temporary unemployment benefits. Any restaurant I've ever managed would choke on vomit at the idea of paying all of its hourly employees a minimum of $15/hr. Couple that with occasionally abusive chef behavior, undesired hours, hot kitchens and working every weekend and you can see why it would be a challenge to keep those positions filled. That's not to say that other sectors don't face similar hurdles, just that this is the one I am intimately familiar with.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

5 hours ago, synoptic said:

I have a tremendous amount of respect for her as a person and a worker and think she is very talented.  But talents and aptitudes come in a large spectrum and not everyone is well suited for corporate gigs.   In what other industry is a 25 year old, non-graduate, English 2^nd language worker with limited writing skills and who hates administrative tasks going to make $50k/year?  There are many stories about restaurants and others in food service industry who take advantage of staff, but the whole industry is not like that and for many workers they took the job for the same reason anyone takes a job, and that is because overall they perceive it as the best option for them.  Now if they go on to things that are better fits for them and their families, I am very happy for them.  I’ve even written several letters of recommendation for staff when applying to new industries.  I only want staff if it is mutually beneficial.  The whole industry is not predatory, and many local restaurants genuinely care about their staff as people and professionals. 

Housekeepers are charging $25/hr these days.

[Chopper 17245]

2 hours ago, Chopper said:

I tried looking up how much the average restaurant check has changed in the past 10 or 20 years

 

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

LOL.  Tough guy.  Guessing you missed this a few posts back.  Like I said.  fucking cock bag....

*The Fed has been saying they think the inflation spike right now is temporary, an effect of the economy reopening after Pandemic and a built up demand vs disrupted supply dynamic is cause rising costs. They could be wrong though, or not. We will have to see over next few months if prices begin to stabilize or not.

I really don't know what kind of a fucking moron responds to a post about the past 10 or 20 years by talking only about the last 3 or 4 months, and then follows it up with an extended rant insisting he's right all the while not being able to pull his head out of his ass. Go back to school.

Babaregard. Change your user name.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Chopper

[Chopper 17245]

20 minutes ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

Housekeepers are charging $25/hr these days.

I'm familiar with some charging $40 or more. And no, any of you perverts, it doesn't come with a hj.

[Chopper 17245]

1 hour ago, Hook1997 said:

please tell how I have no clue? 

Because you make assumptions about the people you're responding to with zero basis in fact.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

4 minutes ago, Chopper said:

I'm familiar with some charging $40 or more. And no, any of you perverts, it doesn't come with a hj.

I should have said they start at $25/hr these days. I'm paying $30/hr.

[Zepol87 9191]

Damn you mfers got house keepers? 

[Enchubben 5510]

this is for a casino in MS. Interesting 

[Js1 85574]

24 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

Damn you mfers got house keepers? 

No this is Surly. Everyone has live in nannies, housekeepers, cooks and butlers. Duh 

[Deej 76921]

35 minutes ago, Chopper said:

I'm familiar with some charging $40 or more. And no, any of you perverts, it doesn't come with a hj.

 

[Hefeweizen 5333]

2 hours ago, Gourmand said:

Why don't you kindly take your condescension and unkindly shove it up your ass? 

Granted, I don't have a degree in econ, but I've managed and run restaurants for many years so I know very well the P&Ls and the expected food/bev/labor costs. I know the culture and I can safely say that I can speak expertly on it. This fundamental staffing problem is rooted in the pay structure, lack of benefits, and most importantly work environment. A restaurant that laid off its staff and then blames temporary unemployment benefits (which btw many industry workers did not receive) as the reason it can't get them back is a restaurant that didn't value its staff enough to not have that problem once it needed to rehire. 

 

 

You are trying to argue economics against a political agenda.  Impossible.  For what it’s worth, I have seen the inflationary pressure on wages across business in a lot of fields that touch mine (engineering).  It’s across the board but especially on the entry level jobs.  I don’t think in Texas there are many  people choosing to stay unemployed because it makes them more money, but sure, if you look hard maybe you can find done.

[Gourmand 7774]

.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Gourmand
nm

[workswithseed 2111]

18 minutes ago, Js1 said:

No this is Surly. Everyone has live in nannies, housekeepers, cooks and butlers. Duh 

And they're all 10s. 

[Hagbard Celine 10923]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

 

deej has been bringing it lately, strong game, fucks and goes hard, across multiple forums

[Deej 76921]

3 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

deej has been bringing it lately, strong game, fucks and goes hard, across multiple forums

I started drinking, again. 

[Hagbard Celine 10923]

and that's fair.

[Paco 1934]

Is this what the cloak room is like? It's like watching a half dozen fat ladies screaming at each other at close range, geysers of spittle shooting off in all directions. Red, crying faces, refusing to give up. Refusing to give an inch.

Because THAT BITCH IS WRONG!!!

[Zepol87 9191]

1 minute ago, Paco said:

Is this what the cloak room is like? It's like watching a half dozen fat ladies screaming at each other at close range, geysers of spittle shooting off in all directions. Red, crying faces, refusing to give up. Refusing to give an inch.

Because THAT BITCH IS WRONG!!!

Nah that's just life in general now 

[Deej 76921]

2 minutes ago, Paco said:

Is this what the cloak room is like? It's like watching a half dozen fat ladies

 

And just like that, Vic is a regular Cloak Room visitor.

[pantone159 719]

I am happy to see wage inflation at the low end, honestly, whatever the reason. For decades, the economic bargain that the low end got has got shittier and shittier. It is time to be able to live on a basic job. Of course it means I will pay a little more for some things, but I don't mind. It is worth it as a society. I'd actually bet that child care issues is the biggest thing that is depressing the labor pool right now, but I dunno.

The economic lot of the masses actually got a lot better after the Black Plague. Suddenly there were not enough serfs, and the landowners had to actually attract labor, and the peasants got a better bargain. Maybe this will be a little bit similar.

And for that matter, can have interest ratez plz??? I am tired of earning 0% on money.

[Gourmand 7774]

Confession time:

This thread for me might be the most home-hitting thread in the history of Surly, so much so that reading it almost triggers PTSD.

My background is in restaurant management. I was laid off from my job last year despite being the longest-tenured employee since the first location opened over a decade ago. I had to lay off all staff but two or three people and then got laid off myself the next day.

I was fortunate to have money saved and also recently closed on a house in Round Rock after selling my house in Austin that I bought ten years ago, so I wasn't destitute or living paycheck to paycheck. I was happy to collect well-deserved unemployment because I missed raising my toddler for the first 2 1/2 years of his life since I was stuck at that job for 12 hours per day. I only saw him for maybe an hour or two before work each day and my days off. But the reason I haven't returned to the industry is all about the industry and its untenable demands on salaried employees. I'm not willing to work a 60+hr week without  the occasional Sunday off, improved bonus structure, or higher employer contributions with health insurance, life insurance offering, or retirement plans. Unemployment pay allowed me time to catch up with raising my son and gave my wife a break but I'm not sure if I'm willing to go back to the industry unless the industry is willing to soften its demands on salaried employees. 

 

[cmontexas 3282]

I used to work in the restaurant industry for many years and I remember a few years ago when all the Wall talk started was that the restaurant industry was gonna end up hurting for people as a result. Idk I havent seen it mentioned at all seems like it might be a factor. Construction too

[Gourmand 7774]

1 minute ago, cmontexas said:

I used to work in the restaurant industry for many years and I remember a few years ago when all the Wall talk started was that the restaurant industry was gonna end up hurting for people as a result. Idk I havent seen it mentioned at all seems like it might be a factor. Construction too

[cmontexas 3282]

18 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Immigration dude. Cheap labor

[Gourmand 7774]

6 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

The service industry labor Pre-Covid had much more to do with opportunity than with wages

What??? No, it has always been about pay.  That is ALWAYS the bottom line propostion that makes xyz worth it.

 

[Js1 85574]

55 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

What??? No, it has always been about pay.  That is ALWAYS the bottom line propostion that makes xyz worth it.

 

It’s about the dignity of work. Employers think you should be happy to sacrifice your mental health, body and personal life for $2.13/hour plus tips, no healthcare, no sick leave and no vacation.  JUST BE HAPPY WITH YIUR CRUMBS, PEASANT

[LABEVO 928]

 

[Armybrat 40911]

On 5/9/2021 at 7:08 PM, Hook1997 said:

The people that work at the restaurants I’ve been to have all said they can’t find employees, the ones working are doing doubles almost every day.  

Two close family members are restaurant managers - most of their furloughed staff are sitting at home collecting extended benefits while playing video games.

[BabaYaga 15320]

14 hours ago, Chopper said:

 

I really don't know what kind of a fucking moron responds to a post about the past 10 or 20 years by talking only about the last 3 or 4 months,

Babaregard. Change your user name.

I wasn't responding to anything related to the last 10-20 years.  I was responding to your stupid post about people freaking out.  Read better

Quote

Sorry but I don't much care for screaming and panicking like a little bitch. Interest rates still low af.

Then this little gem

Quote

and then follows it up with an extended rant insisting he's right all the while not being able to pull his head out of his ass. Go back to school.

For which was posted earlier -again, read better

*The Fed has been saying they think the inflation spike right now is temporary, an effect of the economy reopening after Pandemic and a built up demand vs disrupted supply dynamic is cause rising costs. They could be wrong though, or not. We will have to see over next few months if prices begin to stabilize or not.

[irishtexan 11522]

1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

Two close family members are restaurant managers - most of their furloughed staff are sitting at home collecting extended benefits while playing video games.

If they're furloughed it's because the employer specifically wants to retain the staff member and presumably the staff member liked working there and wants to keep their job. Otherwise they would have been laid off. This is something your restaurant-manager family member actually wants. What else would you suggest that person do while waiting to go back to work?