Are all Restaurants Understaffed now (2021)?

[Bozo_Casanova 26483]

38 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

I've had great and shitty service under both models.  I'm not a diva.  Let me order. Bring me my meal. Refill my drink once. Bring me my check. It can be fast, it can be a bit slow. I'm pretty goddamn low maintenance and don't give a shit about service beyond that.

 What's noticeable is that the service is uniformly more competent in the living wage model. 

Agree - I don't think there's a major difference, except that I've had more ridiculously outstanding service in the states, and consistently better service overall in Europe. 
That being said the consistently best pre-pandemic service in Austin was at L'Oca D'Oro, which builds in a 20% service charge, does not encourage tipping beyond that, and pays the entire staff (front and back of house) a living wage. They just opened back up for in-person dining and appear to have retained/rehired virtually their entire key staff. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Bozo_Casanova

[BabaYaga 15301]

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Agree - I don't think there's a major difference, except that I've had more ridiculously outstanding service in the states, and better service overall in Europe. 
That being said the consistently best pre-pandemic service in Austin was at L'Oca D'Oro, which builds in a 20% service charge, does not encourage tipping beyond that, and pays the entire staff (front and back of house) a living wage. They just opened back up and appear to have retained/rehired virtually their entire key staff. 

Then that's great for them and their model.  Not all restaurants are as high end and employee what seem to be professional wait staff.  Letting the market dictate is almost always a better option.  If more and more people flock to this restaurant, both for the food and their stated values, then those that can match their model will.  And those that can't won't.  Let people vote with their wallets.  I'd assume the trained staff is significantly more valuable, working off an ever evolving menu and doing a little more than refilling iced tea glasses.  

[Guest]

Why doesn’t the flat wage take hold in the US?

Seems like it would be a great selling point, to leverage what an employer is willing to pay.  ‘Please do not tip your server’ might not be a change for some patrons though.  

[Bozo_Casanova 26483]

42 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Then that's great for them and their model.  Not all restaurants are as high end and employee what seem to be professional wait staff.  Letting the market dictate is almost always a better option.  If more and more people flock to this restaurant, both for the food and their stated values, then those that can match their model will.  And those that can't won't.  Let people vote with their wallets.  I'd assume the trained staff is significantly more valuable, working off an ever evolving menu and doing a little more than refilling iced tea glasses.  

I agree in general with you, but let's not pretend that market economics dictated the American model of tipping - it's a historical artifact. From an economic perspective it's terrible for everybody - consumers, business owners, and workers. It also exposes women to Like any bad economic model there are a tiny handful of big winners, and everyone else loses.

The biggest losers are the BOH staff, which, not-all-all-coincidentally are the hardest jobs to fill. IOW - restaurants aren't struggling for a lack of waiters, they are really struggling to hire line cooks - the low paid, high-skilled superheroes of every kitchen.
 

So I agree that the market will dictate the outcome, but it will dictate the outcome (as always) based on social norms and perceptions, not performance or outcomes.
 

41 minutes ago, slorch said:

Why doesn’t the flat wage take hold in the US?

Seems like it would be a great selling point, to leverage what an employer is willing to pay.  ‘Please do not tip your server’ might not be a change for some patrons though.  

This past weekend I was talking to the GM of a regional restaurant group that is not at all high end- very middle income, suburban places. His thoughts on this topic:
1) He figures about 25% of their current staffing shortage is related to additional unemployment benefits, but that "those aren't the people we really want back."
2) For the people they want back, the issues are child care, local cost of living encouraging them into higher income alternatives, especially warehouse work, and reticence to expose family members to contagion, since many of them live in multi-generational households. 

3) He really wishes they could get rid of tipping and either add a 20% service charge like L'Oca D'Oro, or just build the cost of labor into the price of food and be done with it - basically the same money the client base pays already, and then if they want to leave a buck or two for really outstanding service, they can. Doing so would allow him to stabilize his BOH labor force, improve food quality, improve benefits, make their financial and tax model more predictable, and on and on. 
BUT, he's afraid that if they do it too early his customers will rebel, because they've been trained to think this model is good for them, and that his most tenured wait staff would walk, because they are the winners in the current system. His view is that they will convert to a living wage for everybody model when the top half of the market does.
 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Bozo_Casanova

[CooterBrown 18014]

39 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Then that's great for them and their model.  Not all restaurants are as high end and employee what seem to be professional wait staff.  Letting the market dictate is almost always a better option.  If more and more people flock to this restaurant, both for the food and their stated values, then those that can match their model will.  And those that can't won't.  Let people vote with their wallets.  I'd assume the trained staff is significantly more valuable, working off an ever evolving menu and doing a little more than refilling iced tea glasses.  

Luckily, no other restaurants exist in the rest of the world other than high end ones. Otherwise, their living salary model would fail.

 

 

[BabaYaga 15301]

27 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

From an economic perspective it's terrible for everybody

That's debatable.  

Quote

He really wishes they could get rid of tipping and either add a 20% service charge like L'Oca D'Oro, or just build the cost of labor into the price of food and be done with it - basically the same money the client base pays already

Then why don't they?  Nothing stopping them.  Let each owner decide for themselves.

Edited May 17, 2021 by BabaYaga

[BabaYaga 15301]

25 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Luckily, no other restaurants exist in the rest of the world other than high end ones. Otherwise, their living salary model would fail.

 

 

Compare their cost structure and margins, especially those that don't serve alcohol.

[CooterBrown 18014]

17 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Compare their cost structure and margins, especially those that don't serve alcohol.

You're like the horse and buggy sales guy trying to keep out the automobile.

The existing setup is broken and has been broken. It's not being fixed by maintaining the old status quo. Adapt or die. 

 

[BabaYaga 15301]

4 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

You're like the horse and buggy sales guy trying to keep out the automobile.

The existing setup is broken and has been broken. It's not being fixed by maintaining the old status quo. Adapt or die. 

 

Not saying that.  Saying let the markets adapt on their own vs a top-down, one size fits all,  legislative solution that often cause more harm than they fix.

[ChickenSandwich 9843]

5 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

You're like the horse and buggy sales guy trying to keep out the automobile.

The existing setup is broken and has been broken. It's not being fixed by maintaining the old status quo. Adapt or die. 

 

Or survive until September when the Covid Benefits expire. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26483]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Not saying that.  Saying let the markets adapt on their own vs a top-down, one size fits all,  legislative solution that often cause more harm than they fix.

OK, but the current model of tipping is, in point of fact, the product of a one-size fits all legislative solution. 

 

 

[CooterBrown 18014]

5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Not saying that.  Saying let the markets adapt on their own vs a top-down, one size fits all,  legislative solution that often cause more harm than they fix.

The $2.13/hour for waiters is a legislative mandate that harms more than it fixes.

 

[BabaYaga 15301]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

OK, but the current model of tipping is, in point of fact, the product of a one-size fits all legislative solution. 

 

 

And here we are......hence the point.  Let the markets decide.  I don't care either way.  I've had just as shitty service in Europe and Asia as I have here.  Both in establishments that allow and discourage gratuity.  In higher end restaurants with no gratuity, service was fine as you'd expect with a high caliber wait staff.  In lower end places, it seemed much worse.  Especially in both Italy and Greece, which could be any number of other reasons.  

If the model and societal pressures force a shift in the paradigm of dining, then we're good to go.  

[Bozo_Casanova 26483]

35 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

That's very, very debatable.  

Not particularly. As I said, there's a small number of big winners.

 

4 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

And here we are......hence the point.  Let the markets decide.  I don't care either way.  I've had just as shitty service in Europe and Asia as I have here.  Both in establishments that allow and discourage gratuity.  In higher end restaurants with no gratuity, service was fine as you'd expect with a high caliber wait staff.  In lower end places, it seemed much worse.  Especially in both Italy and Greece, which could be any number of other reasons.  

If the model and societal pressures force a shift in the paradigm of dining, then we're good to go.  

As in any market, wealth comes from inefficient allocation of productivity, and one of the most important functions of the market is to break incumbent inefficiencies, which is naturally leads to rent-seeking behaviors by the incumbents. 
I would argue that at the very least the delta between $2.13 minimum wage for wait staff and the actual minimum wage is pure socialized cost.

[BabaYaga 15301]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

As in any market, wealth comes from inefficient allocation of productivity,

Hmmmmmm.....is this the argument that in a truly "efficient" market, 100% of revenue goes back into the production, manufacturing, and distribution mechanisms of the biz?  I get that on paper.  Obviously this ignores incentives, human nature, etc.  

I would argue we're talking more about what John Bates Clark labeled "Marginal Production Theory"

 

Quote

I would argue that at the very least the delta between $2.13 minimum wage for wait staff and the actual minimum wage is pure socialized cost.

 

Would this not assume in this example one set ONLY makes the 2.13 - would it not be a better (and much more difficult) analysis of actual take home of one control group vs those that only make MW.  Then you have to account for region, city, state, restaurant type, etc.  

Edited May 17, 2021 by BabaYaga

[DonkeyCigars 143]

I wonder if the big blocker and obstacle here is that those who typically patronize the lower/fast-food to middle/fast casual up to your Chili's/TGIF/Cheddar's people aren't the type to tip 20-25% every time they go out no matter what, so they don't want the price bump. For those of us who default to 20-25% no matter what just because we are dumb monkey sheep doing as we are told and conditioned so we are part of polite society, who cares? It's $6 one way and half a dozen the other.

[CooterBrown 18014]

6 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I wonder if the big blocker and obstacle here is that those who typically patronize the lower/fast-food to middle/fast casual up to your Chili's/TGIF/Cheddar's people aren't the type to tip 20-25% every time they go out no matter what, so they don't want the price bump. For those of us who default to 20-25% no matter what just because we are dumb monkey sheep doing as we are told and conditioned so we are part of polite society, who cares? It's $6 one way and half a dozen the other.

Goddamn it. If I have to pay $12 instead of $10 + $2 tip for my pizza shooters, there's gonna be hell to pay!!!

[workswithseed 2112]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

And here we are......hence the point.  Let the markets decide.  I don't care either way.  I've had just as shitty service in Europe and Asia as I have here.  Both in establishments that allow and discourage gratuity.  In higher end restaurants with no gratuity, service was fine as you'd expect with a high caliber wait staff.  In lower end places, it seemed much worse.  Especially in both Italy and Greece, which could be any number of other reasons.  

If the model and societal pressures force a shift in the paradigm of dining, then we're good to go.  

Facebook can do whatever they want, but small businesses. Those fuckers better be forced to do what I want. 

[BabaYaga 15301]

1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

Goddamn it. If I have to pay $12 instead of $10 + $2 tip for my pizza shooters, there's gonna be hell to pay!!!

The average restaurant margin is under 10%.  The current labor costs are typically around 30%, while COGS is another 30% and the rest is overhead.  So walk me through the math of doubling or tripling labor costs without drastically slashing headcount?

[Neonmoon 38129]

If kids want to work in the coal mines, let them work in the coal mines. I say let the market decide. 

[workswithseed 2112]

10 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

If kids want to work in the coal mines, let them work in the coal mines. I say let the market decide. 

Sure, seems like you agree.

[hobbes2702 13045]

 

I wonder why he can’t find employees...

[DonkeyCigars 143]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

The average restaurant margin is under 10%.  The current labor costs are typically around 30%, while COGS is another 30% and the rest is overhead.  So walk me through the math of doubling or tripling labor costs without drastically slashing headcount?

I think it look like:

Instead of paying $2/hour plus tips over which an 8 hour shift averages out to, make up a number, $20/hour. You pay $20 an hour and add 25% restaurant management fee to every bill (or whatever you want to call it, it goes straight to the management costs). No different than the "resort fees" you see at Vegas or Hotels. Or "delivery fee" you see with food delivery, etc. These aren't real fees to cover anything other than management costs.

Like I said, it's six one way, half a dozen the other to me. I'm paying the same regardless (X * .25), so might as well architect the way that best helps the workers and restaurant management.

Will you lose people who don't want to pay 25%? I have no idea. I've never been someone or known anyone who stiffs waiters and doesn't tip. Is that a sizable contingent of people who dine out? Is the restaurant industry built upon those people? Then the $2/hr strategy is a bail out for those losers, if so, and another reason to squash it.

I say all this now, but let me get hit with bad service from servers with bad attitudes because they are not incentivized to do a good job (read: like every other retail worker in America) a couple of times and I bet I'll change my tune. I know me too well.

Edited May 17, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[Enchubben 5510]

2 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I think it look like:

Instead of paying $2/hour plus tips over which an 8 hour shift averages out to, make up a number, $20/hour. You pay $20 an hour and add 25% restaurant management fee to every bill (or whatever you want to call it, it goes straight to the management costs). No different than the "resort fees" you see at Vegas or Hotels. Or "delivery fee" you see with food delivery, etc. These aren't real fees to cover anything other than management costs.

Like I said, it's six one way, half a dozen the other to me. I'm paying the same regardless (X * .25), so might as well architect the way that best helps the workers and restaurant management.

Will you lose people who don't want to pay 25%? I have no idea. I've never been someone or known anyone who stiffs waiters and doesn't tip. Is that a sizable contingent of people who dine out? Is the restaurant industry built upon those people? Then the $2/hr strategy is a bail out for those losers, if so, and another reason to squash it.

I say all this now, but let me get hit with bad service from servers with bad attitudes because they are not incentivized to do a good job (read: like every other retail worker in America) a couple of times and I bet I'll change my tune. I know me too well.

That’s probably how it would work. As a restaurant owner I would probably cut headcount and use 75% of normal wait staff to cover the same amount of tables. Just enough to where it doesn’t drastically impact table turnover/satisfaction, but enough to where I get a share of that 25%.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Not particularly. As I said, there's a small number of big winners.

 

As in any market, wealth comes from inefficient allocation of productivity, and one of the most important functions of the market is to break incumbent inefficiencies, which is naturally leads to rent-seeking behaviors by the incumbents. 
I would argue that at the very least the delta between $2.13 minimum wage for wait staff and the actual minimum wage is pure socialized cost.

If that cost was spread across every citizen, whether they ate at the restaurant or not, you might have a point.  

[hornian 5219]

13 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

This past weekend I was talking to the GM of a regional restaurant group that is not at all high end- very middle income, suburban places. His thoughts on this topic:
1) He figures about 25% of their current staffing shortage is related to additional unemployment benefits, but that "those aren't the people we really want back."
2) For the people they want back, the issues are child care, local cost of living encouraging them into higher income alternatives, especially warehouse work, and reticence to expose family members to contagion, since many of them live in multi-generational households. 

3) He really wishes they could get rid of tipping and either add a 20% service charge like L'Oca D'Oro, or just build the cost of labor into the price of food and be done with it - basically the same money the client base pays already, and then if they want to leave a buck or two for really outstanding service, they can. Doing so would allow him to stabilize his BOH labor force, improve food quality, improve benefits, make their financial and tax model more predictable, and on and on. 
BUT, he's afraid that if they do it too early his customers will rebel, because they've been trained to think this model is good for them, and that his most tenured wait staff would walk, because they are the winners in the current system. His view is that they will convert to a living wage for everybody model when the top half of the market does.
 

This is the type of info I was interested in when I started this thread, not the rest of the CR bs this thread has turned into. Thanks for posting. I mean that sincerely. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by hornian

[justhookit 4191]

1 hour ago, hornian said:

This is the type of info I was interested in when I started this thread, not the rest of the CR bs this thread has turned into. Thanks for posting. I mean that sincerely. 

It might work, but it’s unrealistic. As per Shaggy we are talking about a bunch of different things. You obviously can’t compare fast food to chain to high end and kitchen staff is way different from servers. A waiter at a high end restaurant is well over 50 bucks an hour. Just here in Port A they usually walk with around 400-500 or more a night and a lot of it is tax free. In a large city I’m sure you can double that. They would never go for that model so at that point they would be looking for a different line of employment. At somewhere like Chili’s? Yeah but if you think your service sucks now, just wait till that happens.

Just anecdotally but Trout Street here in town is down 1/3 of their staff. I know the managers pretty well and while they do have people refusing to come back because they are getting unemployment it’s mostly because they can’t afford to live here anymore. This is a train wreck you could see coming years ago but nobody took the initiative to do anything about it.

[Landomatic 3813]

Gov. Abbott Ends Extra $300 in Federal Unemployment Payments for Texans

Spoiler

AUSTIN, Texas - Gov. Abbott announced Monday that Texas will reject any more federal funding of unemployment benefits related to the pandemic.

Abbott’s decision means unemployed Texans will no longer get the $300 weekly unemployment supplement from the Federal Pandemic Unemployment Compensation program starting June 26.

Abbott said in a statement there are enough open jobs for everyone currently on unemployment. 

"The Texas economy is booming and employers are hiring in communities throughout the state," Abbott said.

According to the most recent unemployment data from the Texas Workforce Commission, about 970,000 people were unemployed -- a rate of about 7 percent.

"There is a shortage of workers nowadays and you don't need an economist to tell you that," said Mike Davis, SMU economist.

Abbott says the number of available jobs almost mirrors the number of people receiving benefits. 

"It’s extremely challenging," said Kevin Lillis, Hospitality Alliance CEO.

Lillis owns the Jaxon Texas Kitchen and Beer Garden in downtown Dallas along with other restaurants across North Texas.

"We are not seating guests based on availability of seats, we are seating guests based on availability of servers and kitchen staff to service those seats," he said. 

The Texas Association of Business calls the $300 weekly unemployment supplement a major barrier to hiring. But experts say it’s likely more complicated than that.

"We have people who have left the restaurant business who are working in sales, construction, everything from OnlyFans to TikTok, you name it," said Jon Alexis, owner, TJ's Seafood and Malibu Poke.

Alexis says even before the pandemic there was a labor shortage in his industry.

Davis says there isn’t a once size fits all explanation for the current labor shortage. 

"There are certainly people who are saying I can make more money on unemployment and that's true. But there are also people that are saying, I don't have childcare, people taking courses online and working their way up the job ladder," Davis said.

Texas is one of numerous states with Republican governors that has opted in recent weeks to halt the additional federal unemployment payments before the program ends at the conclusion of the summer.

https://www.fox4news.com/news/gov-abbott-ends-extra-300-in-federal-unemployment-payments-for-texans

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26483]

11 hours ago, slorch said:

If that cost was spread across every citizen, whether they ate at the restaurant or not, you might have a point.  

It is. 

[ChickenSandwich 9843]

1 hour ago, Landomatic said:

Gov. Abbott Ends Extra $300 in Federal Unemployment Payments for Texans

  Reveal hidden contents

AUSTIN, Texas - Gov. Abbott announced Monday that Texas will reject any more federal funding of unemployment benefits related to the pandemic.

Abbott’s decision means unemployed Texans will no longer get the $300 weekly unemployment supplement from the Federal Pandemic Unemployment Compensation program starting June 26.

Abbott said in a statement there are enough open jobs for everyone currently on unemployment. 

"The Texas economy is booming and employers are hiring in communities throughout the state," Abbott said.

According to the most recent unemployment data from the Texas Workforce Commission, about 970,000 people were unemployed -- a rate of about 7 percent.

"There is a shortage of workers nowadays and you don't need an economist to tell you that," said Mike Davis, SMU economist.

Abbott says the number of available jobs almost mirrors the number of people receiving benefits. 

"It’s extremely challenging," said Kevin Lillis, Hospitality Alliance CEO.

Lillis owns the Jaxon Texas Kitchen and Beer Garden in downtown Dallas along with other restaurants across North Texas.

"We are not seating guests based on availability of seats, we are seating guests based on availability of servers and kitchen staff to service those seats," he said. 

The Texas Association of Business calls the $300 weekly unemployment supplement a major barrier to hiring. But experts say it’s likely more complicated than that.

"We have people who have left the restaurant business who are working in sales, construction, everything from OnlyFans to TikTok, you name it," said Jon Alexis, owner, TJ's Seafood and Malibu Poke.

Alexis says even before the pandemic there was a labor shortage in his industry.

Davis says there isn’t a once size fits all explanation for the current labor shortage. 

"There are certainly people who are saying I can make more money on unemployment and that's true. But there are also people that are saying, I don't have childcare, people taking courses online and working their way up the job ladder," Davis said.

Texas is one of numerous states with Republican governors that has opted in recent weeks to halt the additional federal unemployment payments before the program ends at the conclusion of the summer.

https://www.fox4news.com/news/gov-abbott-ends-extra-300-in-federal-unemployment-payments-for-texans

 

 outside the box but the gov should have used the extra $300 as a work bonus for those reentering work force. Let the government pay them to work instead of not work. 

[irishtexan 11521]

16 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

 outside the box but the gov should have used the extra $300 as a work bonus for those reentering work force. Let the government pay them to work instead of not work. 

They were federal benefits. He's opting Texans out of being able to receive those funds. He doesn't have discretion to determine how those funds are spent. 

[BabaYaga 15301]

8 hours ago, justhookit said:

It might work, but it’s unrealistic. As per Shaggy we are talking about a bunch of different things. You obviously can’t compare fast food to chain to high end and kitchen staff is way different from servers. A waiter at a high end restaurant is well over 50 bucks an hour. Just here in Port A they usually walk with around 400-500 or more a night and a lot of it is tax free. In a large city I’m sure you can double that. They would never go for that model so at that point they would be looking for a different line of employment. At somewhere like Chili’s? Yeah but if you think your service sucks now, just wait till that happens.

Just anecdotally but Trout Street here in town is down 1/3 of their staff. I know the managers pretty well and while they do have people refusing to come back because they are getting unemployment it’s mostly because they can’t afford to live here anymore. This is a train wreck you could see coming years ago but nobody took the initiative to do anything about it.

Yep.  It's so utterly complicated any single directive is going to massively disrupt the market.  My guess is if this really has legs, and there is interest in shifting how these establishments are run, first movers will drive the market.  Not legislation (hopefully).  

As stated, I'd assume the higher end places will move first.  Their COGS sold is usually higher as are fixed costs, but so are their menu prices and fully bolstered by liquor/wine sales so their margins are higher.  

Your mom/pop places will probably be last as they often do not sell beer/wine nor have any larger corporate backing.

The chains are going to just slash headcounts.  Apps to order from your table.  Kiosks.  They will probably mirror what you see in airports with a shoestring staff and as much automation as they can manage.  Either way, I think the overall headcount in the industry is going to crater.  I can easily see going to a Chili's, ordering from my table on an app (much like when you order online for pickup).  Then getting a text when the food is ready and going to a window to pick it up.  Zero staff other than people filling water and bussing tables....which will royally suck for all the younger kids and workers in school, etc.  

[luke duke 6413]

If kids want to work in the coal mines, let them work in the coal mines. I say let the market decide. 

[TXSooner518 2438]

1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

 outside the box but the gov should have used the extra $300 as a work bonus for those reentering work force. Let the government pay them to work instead of not work. 

 

1 hour ago, irishtexan said:

They were federal benefits. He's opting Texans out of being able to receive those funds. He doesn't have discretion to determine how those funds are spent. 

Oklahoma is taking some of their allocated money from the jobs bill and giving $1200 bonuses to anyone who was on unemployment and works for at least 6 weeks of 32+ hours a week. So he couldn't reallocate the unemployment funds, but could implement a similar program.

[Trey3216 15347]

I mean, the shit is really starting to hit the fan...

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26483]

16 hours ago, Enchubben said:

That’s probably how it would work. As a restaurant owner I would probably cut headcount and use 75% of normal wait staff to cover the same amount of tables. Just enough to where it doesn’t drastically impact table turnover/satisfaction, but enough to where I get a share of that 25%.

Well that would make you a bad owner/GM well before you adopted the fee, and that’s why you wouldn’t be able to hire or retain good staff in a good economy. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Bozo_Casanova

[Bozo_Casanova 26483]

And again- folks/ the labor shortage is mostly BOH. The only places with a waiter shortage in big cities have reputation problems. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Bozo_Casanova

[Ag with kids 581]

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

And again- folks/ the labor shortage is mostly BOH. The only places with a waiter shortage in big cities have reputation problems. 

Well, most of the restaurants here on N Padre have shortages in both FOH and BOH...

Next time I stop at the ones I frequent I'll ask the owners what the issue is...

[Deej 76820]

[Sandman 3403]

My wife's company is struggling to get furloughed employees back. These are bartenders, servers, BOH people, guest relations. Many have told her they're making more by staying at home. They just put on a 2 day job fair, they're desperate for help. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26483]

Somebody mentioned a FOH labor shortage upthread. I I tend to take a very economically deterministic view of things and it sure doesn't seem like there's a FOH labor shortage on the level of BOH, but I have a bunch of old friends who are hospitality lifers who are sharing this twitter thread. It seems to represent their perspective at the employee level. I wonder how much being treated like shit by customers factors into things. It seems like a lot. 

TL;DR: they are sick of your shit
 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Bozo_Casanova

[DonkeyCigars 143]

Interesting read about how a restaurant loses money on a $14 sandwich (in NYC). Not posting this to make a broad-reaching claim (after all, this is NYC and upper scale food cost analysis, not McDonalds or Burger King), but thought it was interesting:

https://www.eater.com/2021/5/17/22434443/how-a-new-york-city-restaurant-loses-money-on-a-14-sandwich

Edited May 19, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[Guest]

@Bozo_Casanova maybe it’s because I also work n the public, but we always try to avoid being ‘that customer’ when we go out.  I am constantly amazed at the number of folks who are just complete assholes and do everything possible to have an unpleasant experience. Bottom line is there are just too many miserable saps out there who want the rest of the wold to be as unhappy as they are.

Fuck em.   Be nice.   Be a decent customer.   Make it better for everyone.

[Js1 85372]

 

[Js1 85372]

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26483]

2 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Interesting read about how a restaurant loses money on a $14 sandwich (in NYC). Not posting this to make a broad-reaching claim (after all, this is NYC and upper scale food cost analysis, not McDonalds or Burger King), but thought it was interesting:

https://www.eater.com/2021/5/17/22434443/how-a-new-york-city-restaurant-loses-money-on-a-14-sandwich

They have business model problems, some self-inflicted. 
This is the menu at a place I like to get sandwiches in Paris. It's in the Place de la Bastille, has incredibly high food quality, and makes a profit on cheap lunches:

Edited May 19, 2021 by Bozo_Casanova

[jimmyjazz 45971]

Now THAT'S a humblebrag.

[Gourmand 7774]

3 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Somebody mentioned a FOH labor shortage upthread. I I tend to take a very economically deterministic view of things and it sure doesn't seem like there's a FOH labor shortage on the level of BOH, but I have a bunch of old friends who are hospitality lifers who are sharing this twitter thread. It seems to represent their perspective at the employee level. I wonder how much being treated like shit by customers factors into things. It seems like a lot. 

TL;DR: they are sick of your shit
 

 

 

Thanks for sharing because this is EXACTLY right, I can personally attest to every singular aspect she touched upon.  Frankly I couldn't peek at some of the commentary in this thread without losing it over those who can't grasp the fuller context of the restaurant labor shortage so I'm relieved to see this contribution.

I'm a personable guy, genuine and sincere, with admittedly less charisma than those naturally charismatic types, but I can get along with almost everyone. I cared a great deal about my job performance and I did it well for many years. I also cared dearly about the treatment my staff received from guests and most of all their opportunity to make money. However, dealing with the shit I put up with for so long--between asshole customers who complain about the dumbest, most inconsequential shit over a cheap fuckin lunch/dinner to drug addicts and alcoholic employees falling off the wagon to ownership constantly harping on labor costs (despite refusing to pay the most senior BOH staff more than $13/$14 hr!) my job beat the life out of me by the time the pandemic hit. For seven years plus I was expected to work a 55 hr week every week, but I typically worked 60-65 hrs most weeks and in the event I had some key positions unfilled, it wasn't uncommon to work 80 hrs. I never had any weekends off, worked most holidays (except Xmas and Thanksgiving) and was always at work late night at the end of every month for inventory regardless of what day it fell upon.  I was denied a salaried assistant GM for a restaurant that operated seven days a week for 12 hrs a day. I was never offered bonuses for hitting our COGS targets. I worked my ass off day after day after day because I was committed to my job and my employees. I worked hard to support my family, but in the end my employer repaid my loyalty by laying me off to save salary when he could have laid off the highest earning salaries in the company and filled one or both of those roles himself. If it were my business and I needed to drastically cut costs, that's the move I would've made, but that also would have meant that he would have to actually work a 40+hr week....And then there's the issue of losing my family health insurance at the beginning of a goddamn global pandemic.

Within a matter of weeks he collected over $772,000 in PPP loans and closed one underperforming, bloated location but did not hire back most FOH staff or any salaried managers. He had some performative tears when he let me go but  I'm sure he still sleeps well in the hip million-dollar MCM he bought the previous year on the backs of his overworked and underpaid cooks and managers. But let's all beat up on restaurant employees and their paltry unemployment insurance and ignore the myriad reasons most of them don't want to go back. /rant

 

 

[RollLeft 5045]

On 5/17/2021 at 10:21 AM, Bozo_Casanova said:

...The biggest losers are the BOH staff, which, not-all-all-coincidentally are the hardest jobs to fill. IOW - restaurants aren't struggling for a lack of waiters, they are really struggling to hire line cooks - the low paid, high-skilled superheroes of every kitchen.

This past weekend I was talking to the GM of a regional restaurant group that is not at all high end- very middle income, suburban places. His thoughts on this topic:
1) He figures about 25% of their current staffing shortage is related to additional unemployment benefits, but that "those aren't the people we really want back."
2) For the people they want back, the issues are child care, local cost of living encouraging them into higher income alternatives, especially warehouse work, and reticence to expose family members to contagion, since many of them live in multi-generational households. 

 

I think this is pretty close and don't feel the need to tackle where we disagree. I would only add that what I see is that with individual restaurants or lower end restaurant groups and or places where the demographic tends to have a larger 1st generation American staff the percentage and or impact from unemployment benefits is probably higher.  A point Synoptic alluded to.  The better funded/located and or more desirable service jobs and or stronger restaurant groups probably are less impacted by the unemployment benefits.  A point Gourmand alluded to.  Just a purview from talking to my clients.   

Doesn't mean we can't do better, i'm for that.  That said someone is always gonna be at the bottom or get the short end of the stick.  Unless we go communist.  Then we all get 2.13 an hour.   

[RollLeft 5045]

2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

They have business model problems, some self-inflicted. 
This is the menu at a place I like to get sandwiches in Paris. It's in the Place de la Bastille, has incredibly high food quality, and makes a profit on cheap lunches:

Man how do they survive in that terrible location;)