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Meanwhile, in Jerusalem...

Anastasis

By Anastasis
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Chuckie Finster
Chuckie Finster

As an American Jew, I purposefully avoid this topic because I have been unable to put my feelings into words. This tweet thread is the closest I’ve seen anyone articulate how I’m feeling.

hpslugga
hpslugga

That's a nice fairy tale but it has precious little to do with the established diplomatic record that goes back to the 1970's. In 1971, Sadat offered a full peace treaty to Israel (with nothing as a c

wildcat09
wildcat09

This post is so stupid onboard repped it. Think on that.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28712

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Yes but the Christians believe that the lease one day will expire and convert to the True Believers in the One True Messiah and the Jews who don't convert will burn with all the rest of the heathens.

Suppose they tore down the mosque and rebuilt the temple. I wonder how long it would take for Christians to decide that Jesus ain’t never coming back. My guess would be - forever. 

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JBJ

JBJ 3649

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5 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

The US media doesn't often tell the stories of Israeli persecution of Christian Arabs, of which there are very many in Palestine, and once were many more. I know about a dozen in Houston whose huge extrended family was expelled / fled from Ramallah decades ago. There are tons of little Catholic-ish, Orthodox-ish sects scattered from Ethiopia, through Egypt's Copts, and then in Israel / Palestine, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq. Sometimes it seems like each valley or village has its own official Rite...But to the Evangelicals, these are not real Christians, even though these are the descendants of the people who have been keeping the faith for the longest out of all Christians on Earth.

This is my family and you are confusing the Young Turks with just about everyone else.

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JBJ

JBJ 3649

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Posted (edited)
On 5/23/2021 at 9:14 AM, hpslugga said:

And yet there are still going to be people who defend this barbaric idiocy, and they'll even go so far as to defend their position by pointing out that the Palestinians are barbaric idiots. 

‏ https://t.co/GO7iMcPrxN

I'm not sure that walking from the Western Plaza to Solomon's Stables is equivalent to storming al Asqa.

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F250

F250 28691

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22 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

The US media doesn't often tell the stories of Israeli persecution of Christian Arabs, of which there are very many in Palestine, and once were many more. I know about a dozen in Houston whose huge extrended family was expelled / fled from Ramallah decades ago. There are tons of little Catholic-ish, Orthodox-ish sects scattered from Ethiopia, through Egypt's Copts, and then in Israel / Palestine, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq. Sometimes it seems like each valley or village has its own official Rite...But to the Evangelicals, these are not real Christians, even though these are the descendants of the people who have been keeping the faith for the longest out of all Christians on Earth.

My first introduction to Arab Christians was working at a pizza place owned by an Orthodox Syrian-Lebanese family in high school. The father definitely held some grievances towards Israel. I distinctly remember him saying "Hey man, I'm a Christian, I love Jesus man. You know who doesn't love Jesus?" Then the conversation focused on Blood Libel and got weird. He also said Muslims were sheep fuckers. Very interesting dude.

 

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Shady Ray

Shady Ray 1633

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Kinda looks like Netanyahu is flexing while he shoves his thumb up the Biden administration's ass.
 
 

Publicly trashing the ongoing diplomatic efforts of the administration to get back into JCPOA with Iran while literally standing next to the Sec of State. Unreal.
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MissingInAction

MissingInAction 24823

Posted
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5 hours ago, F250 said:

My first introduction to Arab Christians was working at a pizza place owned by an Orthodox Syrian-Lebanese family in high school. The father definitely held some grievances towards Israel. I distinctly remember him saying "Hey man, I'm a Christian, I love Jesus man. You know who doesn't love Jesus?" Then the conversation focused on Blood Libel and got weird. He also said Muslims were sheep fuckers. Very interesting dude.

 

I did not know aggy had a middle east campus.

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hpslugga

hpslugga 4044

Posted
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, lmao said:

 

Uh ok? That's poor reasoning:

1. They're going to accuse us of antisemitism regardless of how accurate the comments are. If they're not flattering to Israel, BAM, antisemitism!

2. The only thing that matters is whether what you're saying is true or false. If you want to "apologize for posts," it should be because what you said was wrong. If it wasn't wrong? Fuck them.

Edited by hpslugga
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bolverk

bolverk 29400

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Why do people have to be such dicks to each other?

Far-Right March Tests New Israeli Coalition, Amid Hamas Threats
Just two days after taking office, Israel’s new government is split about a decision to allow a procession through Palestinian areas of Jerusalem.

JERUSALEM — Far-right Jewish activists marched through Palestinian areas of Jerusalem on Tuesday evening after receiving permission from Israel’s new coalition government, angering parts of the alliance, prompting threats from the militant group Hamas, and giving the government a first test of its unity.

The march is a rescheduled version of an aborted far-right procession originally planned for last month, which the group cited to justify firing rockets toward Jerusalem on May 10, setting off an 11-day air war between Hamas and Israel.

Waving Israeli flags, marchers streamed past Damascus Gate outside Jerusalem’s Old City, pausing to dance in a plaza central to Palestinian life that was off-limits to Palestinians for much of the month of Ramadan. Many marchers were chanting, “The nation of Israel is alive.” Some younger boys could be heard shouting threats to Palestinians, including, “Death to Arabs!”

The police were out in force, forcing Palestinian residents away from the route of the march except for people who own or work in shops in the area. Several bystanders were detained by officers. One Palestinian man was filmed being beaten by officers as they cleared the area to make way for the marchers.

Spoiler

 

The situation highlighted the frailties and contradictions of the new coalition, which on Sunday night replaced Israel’s longest-serving leader, Benjamin Netanyahu, in a confidence vote in Parliament that passed by just one vote — 60 to 59, with one abstention. The bloc is an unwieldy alliance of the hard right, the left and the center, as well as, for the first time ever, an independent Arab party, sharing little common ground beyond a desire to keep Mr. Netanyahu from returning to power.

For right-wing and many centrist members of the alliance, including Naftali Bennett, the new hard-right prime minister, the march is a matter of national pride: a celebration of their right to walk through areas of Jerusalem captured by Israel during the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, which Israel now considers part of its undivided capital. Known as a “flags march,” the event happens every year, and features thousands of marchers waving Israeli flags, but was aborted in May because of the rocket fire from Gaza.

One of the last acts of the Netanyahu government was to reschedule this year’s aborted march for Tuesday. The decision was upheld on his first day in office by Omer Bar-Lev, the new center-left minister for public security — to the praise of his new right-wing allies.

“I congratulate public security minister Omer Bar-Lev for his decision to hold the flag dance tomorrow,” tweeted Nir Orbach, a hard-right member of the coalition who almost dropped out of the alliance before the confidence vote. “The flag dance is part of the culture of religious Zionism and is held regularly. It does not need to be a political dance or proof of governance, it needs to be a display of joy.”

But to Arab and left-wing members of the coalition, it is a provocative gesture. It offends Palestinians, who do not celebrate the capture of East Jerusalem, which is still considered occupied by much of the world, and who hope it will one day form the capital of a Palestinian state. Palestinian families living on the route of the march often board up their homes and shops in anticipation of abuse and violence from the marchers.

In the build-up to the march, the main United Nations envoy in the region, Tor Wennesland, warned of rising tensions and asked all sides to “avoid any provocations that could lead to another round of confrontation.”

The U.S. State Department barred its employees from entering the Old City of Jerusalem on Tuesday, where the marchers are scheduled to proceed through Palestinian neighborhoods on their way to the Western Wall, a sacred site in Judaism.

Inter-communal violence between Jews and Arabs in Jerusalem and across Israel formed the backdrop to the recent war, and some fear a resurgence.

Mossi Raz, a lawmaker from Meretz, a left-wing party that controls three ministries in the new government, compared the march to holding a pride parade in an ultra-Orthodox neighborhood.

“If we know it is dangerous, why do we need it?” he said in a radio interview on Tuesday. “They are interested in provocation.”

Mansour Abbas, the leader of Raam, an Arab Islamist party within the coalition, said he had not raised the issue with Mr. Bennett, and downplayed the idea of letting it become a wedge between the coalition partners.

“If we quarrel over everything, there is no doubt that this coalition will fall apart,” Mr. Abbas said in a radio interview on Tuesday. But he nevertheless also called the march a provocation. “I hope it will pass without escalation but Jerusalem is a sensitive city,” he said. “The whole world looks at what is happening there and reacts to it.”

The march already risks another escalation in fighting with Hamas, which threatened a violent response, while nevertheless hinting that it may not resort to something as drastic as rocket fire.

“What is certain is we can’t be silent in the face of the flags march, which is deeply provocative and part of the occupation’s internal politics,” said Mohammad Hamada, a spokesman for the militant group. “If the occupation carries out this arrogance, we have several options in front of us. Armed resistance from Gaza is not the only option. We have the Jerusalem and West Bank fronts, where we can participate in popular resistance. But we also do not rule out armed resistance.”

On Tuesday, fires broke out in southern Israel, which Israeli firefighters attributed to incendiary balloons released by militants in Gaza.

Gaza has barely begun to recover from last month’s fighting, which killed at least 250 Palestinians and 13 Israelis, and damaged more than 16,000 homes, 28 medical facilities, and water and sewage works in Gaza, according to the United Nations. Rebuilding has yet to restart in earnest, and Israel and Egypt, which control access to Gaza, are still withholding key financial and material assistance — all factors that some analysts believe will make Hamas wary of provoking Israel into another round of airstrikes.

But others expect that Hamas will want to give an early test to the new government. And having attempted to establish itself as a symbolic standard-bearer for Palestinians in Jerusalem during the conflict in May, Hamas leaders may not want to back down so quickly.

For its part, the new government is under pressure to avoid appearing to capitulate to Hamas.

“Israel cannot be a hostage of a terrorist organization,” Amos Yadlin, the former head of Israeli military intelligence, said in a radio interview on Tuesday. “As far as Hamas is concerned, it dictates to Israel what to do in Jerusalem — it must be shown that it did not win here.”

 

 

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Js1

Js1 85110

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37 minutes ago, Satchel said:

The new guy doesn’t even pretend to support a two state solution. What to make of this? IDK

He’s more right wing than Bibi. Why would he even pretend? He’s only in power because the anti-Bibi coalition was big enough to strike a deal.  But he won’t be able to get much stuff that’s too conservative through the coalition. 

At the end of the day, they forced Bibi out. 

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Satchel

Satchel 6908

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8 minutes ago, Js1 said:

He’s more right wing than Bibi. Why would he even pretend? He’s only in power because the anti-Bibi coalition was big enough to strike a deal.  But he won’t be able to get much stuff that’s too conservative through the coalition. 

At the end of the day, they forced Bibi out. 

Bibi says reports of his political demise are premature. He plans to overcome the Israeli “deep state.”

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Js1

Js1 85110

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11 hours ago, Satchel said:

Bibi says reports of his political demise are premature. He plans to overcome the Israeli “deep state.”

Will the coalition stay together? Maybe, maybe not.  It's the first time the Arabs has an actual say in Israel's government.  Bennett is only PM through the end of 2022 and the Lapid takes over.   Lapid supports a two-state solution.

The CW is that the status quo will prevail, as Lapid can veto anything as part of the agreement (and Bennett can do the same for Lapid's two years as PM).   So basically incremental changes, but nothing remarkable, just no fucking Bibi in charge. 

But at the moment, the only thing holding together the coalition is the intense hatred of Bibi and the desire to move on from him.  He no longer has the PM job to shield him from the corruption charges.  Either he needs to be in jail or the new coalition needs to pass a law to keep Bibi from ever holding the PM job again (either by saying anyone under trial/convicted cannot hold the job or putting a limit on years as PM or something). 

But OF FUCKING COURSE Bibi says the same shit Trump did - they are two peas in a pod.  Wait until Bolsonaro loses next year and he will say the same shit.  Kiko Fujimori in Peru is doing it too - the election was stolen, voter fraud, leftist violence, blah blah blah. 

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hpslugga

hpslugga 4044

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Posted
1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Will the coalition stay together? Maybe, maybe not.  It's the first time the Arabs has an actual say in Israel's government.  Bennett is only PM through the end of 2022 and the Lapid takes over.   Lapid supports a two-state solution.

Let me be clear, he does not. For one, his political associations alone casts a tremendous amount of skepticism over this statement.

More importantly, his conception of the two-state settlement runs in contravention to the international consensus. He has said that he wants to maintain all or some of the settlement blocs (the ones he definitely wants to maintain are the very largest of them, namely Ariel, Gush Etzion and Ma'aleh Adumim). So he won't adequately even define what the "Palestinian State" would be, he insists on settlement inclusion, he insists on said Palestinian state being demilitarized, he bitches about all the "threats" Israel faces while wholly ignoring the much bigger threats Palestinians face, etc.

Furthermore, he's stated numerous times that he would only insist on negotiations with the Palestinian Authority, which is a completely illegitimate entity that does not speak for the Palestinian people, and they've been known not to for decades. They were created via a concession by Arafat in the Oslo negotiations, largely because it was the life preserver that Israel and the US were willing to throw to him after tacitly supporting Saddam Hussein in the first Gulf War. It has since been maintained despite the fact that they were defeated in the 2006 elections and continue to do so mostly through intimidation, coercion and violence. This would be akin to some Arab leader saying that they'd only negotiate with the US via the Tea Party.  

Bottom line, this has nothing to do with the two-state settlement as it's understood by the vast majority of the world. That consensus includes, among other things, to quote the Peaceful Settlement of the Palestine Question:

Quote

Recalling the affirmation by the Security Council of the vision of a region where two States, Israel and Palestine, live side by side within secure and recognized borders,

The Palestinians will never recognize those settlement blocs, which means they will never recognize whatever "borders" Lapid proposes. 

Quote

Recalling the advisory opinion rendered on 9 July 2004 by the International Court of Justice on the legal consequences of the construction of a wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory

Yeah, Lapid is absolutely opposed to this. That advisory opinion, which to repeat was unanimous when you consider what Buergenthal said in his separate declaration, deemed that all segments of the wall in the West Bank that were built in Palestinian territory as a means to protect Israeli settlements are, to quote Buergenthal, "ipso facto in violation of international humanitarian law" and that those segments of the wall must therefore be dismantled. 

Quote

Stressing that the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples is among the purposes and principles enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations,

Again, that can't happen when Israel is proposing preservation of illegal settlements.

Quote

Reaffirming the principle of the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war,

Lapid insists on maintaining large swaths of that territory.

Quote

Reaffirming the illegality of the Israeli settlements in the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem,

Again, opposed.

Quote

Expressing grave concern about the extremely detrimental impact of Israeli settlement policies, decisions and activities in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, including on the contiguity, integrity and viability of the Territory, the viability of the two-State solution based on the pre-1967 borders and the efforts to advance a peaceful settlement in the Middle East,

You get the idea. 

What he has said about it is akin to when David Bar-Illan said back in 1996, "If Palestinian sovereignty is limited enough so that we feel safe, call it [the Palestinian State] fried chicken." It's that same dismissive, imperialist attitude that Bibi has about it. Again, they're changing the style. Not the substance.

Just as a guide, if what Israel is proposing falls shorter of the international consensus than the Clinton Parameters did, it's a non-starter. Lapid knows that.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28712

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Posted

There will never be a two state solution. Don’t kid yourselves.

Also, Jesus ain’t never coming back. (Assuming he ever existed in the first place, of which I’m unconvinced. In fact, I seriously doubt it.)

I’m tempted to make an, “Out of the frying pan, into the fire!” joke, but I feel that might be in poor taste. 

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