Meanwhile, in Jerusalem...

[hpslugga 4044]

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

it's cute when right-wingers try to weaponize identity politics.

Just calling people racist. #sad

Not sure that's actually true, but even if it is... how does that excuse what Israel is doing?

It’s not and it doesn’t. He’s talking out of his ass. Such is the aggy way. Whoop!

[Sawbonz 27436]

Have the non Jewish residents of Palestine ever had self rule? There was a Jewish majority in Roman times. After the fall of Rome the inhabitants were ruled by nomadic Arabic tribes up until the Ottoman Empire, who ruled up until its fall, correct? Has there ever been a state of Palestine? 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6555]

1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

We, as in the white European conquerors of this country, have treated the Native Americans horribly. We would probably do well to integrate more of their culture into our own. But at least Joe Biden appointed the first Native American - Deb Haaland - to a cabinet position as Secretary of the Interior, the first Native American to hold a cabinet position. I think that’s progress. There are no rules preventing a Native American from becoming President of this country. That’s not true for Arab Israelis.

I’d happily vote for a gay transsexual Native American atheist if I thought he or she represented my values. I know what my values are, I can state them and defend them. And they’re first and foremost that all ‘men’ (which is a general term meaning everyone) are created equal. Government should be secular and provide equal rights for everyone regardless of race, color, religion, or creed. You should be free to practice whatever dumbass religion your parents indoctrinated you on so long as you don’t try to force it on anyone else or use it as a means to justify thinking you’re better than “them.” And if you use it as an excuse to steal someone else’s land, don’t be surprised if they fight back.

It’s really not complicated.

You really didn’t answer my question.  The Native Americans in this country have a argument that this whole place is their land and they want it back from the European conquerors.  Would you say they have every right to go out and fight for it?  Maybe Israel should go back to the Italians since Rome conquered the land during the time of Jesus and Charlton Heston Ben Hur.  If the Palestinians could be Prime Minister of Israel you are saying they would be happy?  

[Bigbend1812 12889]

8 minutes ago, immamac said:

What the fuck is this thread

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 minute ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

You really didn’t answer my question.  The Native Americans in this country have a argument that this whole place is their land and they want it back from the European conquerors.  Would you say they have every right to go out and fight for it?  Maybe Israel should go back to the Italians since Rome conquered the land during the time of Jesus and Charlton Heston Ben Hur.  If the Palestinians could be Prime Minister of Israel you are saying they would be happy?  

It would be interesting to hear your answers to your own questions.

The root of all of this, really, is the fallacy of the idea that land can be owned and nations can be valid concepts. We compound the fallacy by putting things like ethnocentrism and religious claims in the mix.

[Sawbonz 27436]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

It would be interesting to hear your answers to your own questions.

The root of all of this, really, is the fallacy of the idea that land can be owned and nations can be valid concepts. We compound the fallacy by putting things like ethnocentrism and religious claims in the mix.

Is your name Dennis?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It would be interesting to hear your answers to your own questions.

The root of all of this, really, is the fallacy of the idea that land can be owned and nations can be valid concepts. We compound the fallacy by putting things like ethnocentrism and religious claims in the mix.

Stop that right now please. Nations do exist, and they do own land. Next subject.

[WhatTheBuck 28713]

1 minute ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

You really didn’t answer my question.  The Native Americans in this country have a argument that this whole place is their land and they want it back from the European conquerors.  Would you say they have every right to go out and fight for it?  Maybe Israel should go back to the Italians since Rome conquered the land during the time of Jesus and Charlton Heston Ben Hur.  If the Palestinians could be Prime Minister of Israel you are saying they would be happy?  

I did answer your question. People are people and we are where we are. Show me the Native Americans who are arguing that everyone else should leave the country. We could treat the Native Americans better but we treat them a lot better than the Israelis treat the Palestinians. The Palestinians aren’t asking the Jews to leave. But they have no political power and no voice and continue to suffer under an apartheid regime. Do you seriously think that’s true of the Native Americans?

Native Americans can vote. Palestinians can’t. 

[WhatTheBuck 28713]

10 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Stop that right now please. Nations do exist, and they do own land. Next subject.

Palestinians will never have a nation of their own. I mean, they did for more than a millennium and a half but it was stolen from them. So there is that. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by WhatTheBuck

[WhatTheBuck 28713]

3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

it's cute when right-wingers try to weaponize identity politics.

The real problem is that they weaponize ignorance.

[atomheartbevo 89449]

15 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Palestinians will never have a nation of their own.

On a side note, and completely anecdotal, but out of all of the Arabs I've went to school with, closely worked with, been friends with, I don't recall any of them having anything positive to say about the Palestinians. Granted, this is maybe 20 or so people, but they all seemed to view the Palestinians the way we view the fucking Irish.

Some did like that the Palestinians fucked with the Israel, but that wasn't very positive. That's more like laughing when Alabama steamrolls aggy in football.

[bad_teammate 13132]

27 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Stop that right now please. Nations do exist, and they do own land. Next subject.

no

Nations are constructs that, without exception, fail and disappear. All of them. Including our beloved 'merica.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

no

Nations are constructs that, without exception, fail and disappear. All of them. Including our beloved 'merica.

Oy, yes there constructs that have been here for a long fucking time, get over it.

[Beantown Express 2.0 6555]

On a side note, and completely anecdotal, but out of all of the Arabs I've went to school with, closely worked with, been friends with, I don't recall any of them having anything positive to say about the Palestinians. Granted, this is maybe 20 or so people, but they all seemed to view the Palestinians the way we view the fucking Irish.
Some did like that the Palestinians fucked with the Israel, but that wasn't very positive. That's more like laughing when Alabama steamrolls aggy in football.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Neonmoon 38127]

27 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

You really didn’t answer my question.  The Native Americans in this country have a argument that this whole place is their land and they want it back from the European conquerors.  Would you say they have every right to go out and fight for it?  Maybe Israel should go back to the Italians since Rome conquered the land during the time of Jesus and Charlton Heston Ben Hur.  If the Palestinians could be Prime Minister of Israel you are saying they would be happy?  

This is a stupid simplistic view made so simple people can feel good about inflicting pain and suffering.

Why you ask?

No one TODAY thinks what Americans did to Native Americans hundreds of years ago was okay and good. They were systematically eradicated from the land. They were persecuted, murdered, defeated militarily, poisoned, cheated, corralled into a certain area and oppressed for hundreds of years. 

 

 

[WhatTheBuck 28713]

15 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

On a side note, and completely anecdotal, but out of all of the Arabs I've went to school with, closely worked with, been friends with, I don't recall any of them having anything positive to say about the Palestinians. Granted, this is maybe 20 or so people, but they all seemed to view the Palestinians the way we view the fucking Irish.

Some did like that the Palestinians fucked with the Israel, but that wasn't very positive. That's more like laughing when Alabama steamrolls aggy in football.

You’re drunk. Go to bed my friend. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by WhatTheBuck

[David Dennison 18660]

2 hours ago, Ag with kids said:

So, firing rockets - that are unguided - towards inhabited areas is NOT a crime against humanity?

Probably not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity

[Beantown Express 2.0 6555]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Probably not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity

Just making sure but do you believe Israel is purposely trying to kill civilians and not Hamas?  I believe that is what it says a crime against humanity is.  

[hpslugga 4044]

5 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

This is a stupid simplistic view made so simple people can feel good about inflicting pain and suffering.

Why you ask?

No one TODAY thinks what Americans did to Native Americans hundreds of years ago was okay and good. They were systematically eradicated from the land. They were persecuted, murdered, defeated militarily, poisoned, cheated, corralled into a certain area and oppressed for hundreds of years. 

 

 

Right I mean the Native American example is probably the best analogy to pursue, but it’s morally bankrupt to use it in defense of the occupation. Like someone else said earlier, they got the right analogy, just not the way he had intended. That’s seriously a level of depravity that’s hard to fathom.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

3 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

You steal my land, I’m going to fight you. It’s not complicated. 

This x1000. These supposed alpha males in the GOP suggest that a group of people whose land was stolen from them and then they were forced to travel around through checkpoints in their land should just “be nice”.

If that happened to you @Ag with kids is that what you would do? If so, I’m guessing you won’t mind if I call you a beta cuck?

Edited May 17, 2021 by DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

[hpslugga 4044]

1 minute ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

This x1000. These supposed alpha males in the GOP suggest that a group of people whose land was stolen from them and then they were forced to travel around through checkpoints in their land should just “be nice”.

If that happened to you @Ag with kids is that what you would do? If so, I’m guessing you won’t mind if a call you a beta cuck?

That’s one reason that I wouldn’t mind seeing Mexico steal back Texas: just to watch those morons twist in the wind and pretend as if they actually could whip cream with a boat’s motor.

[David Dennison 18660]

2 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Just making sure but do you believe Israel is purposely trying to kill civilians and not Hamas?  I believe that is what it says a crime against humanity is.  

Oh, I think they both are. But only one targets civilians as a matter of foreign policy. The other is fighting against an occupying force.

 

 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6555]

So you believe Israeli military is sitting there saying,” how do we kill Palestinian civilians?.  Hmmm there is a school, lets blow it up so we can kill a bunch of kids”.   That is not what is happening and if you believe that you are a stooge.  There are civilian casualties and it is horrible but pretty sure that isn’t their goal.  If it was their goal they could end this real quick and kill them all (once again that would be horrible and I would not want that to happen.  Maybe if Hamas stopped hiding with civilians it wouldn’t be an issue.  

[bad_teammate 13132]

3 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Maybe if Hamas stopped hiding with civilians it wouldn’t be an issue.  

Is this why Israel pushes settlements further and further past its borders and uses its military to force out home and landowners? Hamas is the rationalization?

[David Dennison 18660]

3 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

So you believe Israeli military is sitting there saying,” how do we kill Palestinian civilians?.  Hmmm there is a school, lets blow it up so we can kill a bunch of kids”.   That is not what is happening and if you believe that you are a stooge.  There are civilian casualties and it is horrible but pretty sure that isn’t their goal.  If it was their goal they could end this real quick and kill them all (once again that would be horrible and I would not want that to happen.  Maybe if Hamas stopped hiding with civilians it wouldn’t be an issue.  

I think the government absolutely uses "self-defense" as justification inflicting civilian casualties on an oppressed population.

[Beantown Express 2.0 6555]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Is this why Israel pushes settlements further and further past its borders and uses its military to force out home and landowners? Hamas is the rationalization?

Different subject.  It is being stated that Israel purposely kills civilian Palestinians to make a point.  I don’t agree with that theory.  I find it interesting that many on this thread make it sound like the Jews in Israel are these horrible people who don’t want to live in peace but actually just want to kill Palestinians but all these super nice Palestinians who just want to live in peace with the Jews haven’t been part of the problem.  Talk about twisting the truth into a fairy tale.

Yeah, yeah, ethno state/apartheid but what happens if the Palestinians did take control of Israel?  They let the jews live there in peace?  Hamas disbands and goes into the t shirt business or something?  I actually have a few friends/business associates in Israel.  Some are Jews and some are Arab citizens there.  They don’t seem to have an issue with each other or at least that’s what they tell me.  They live in peace, go to work in the same city, eat some falafel or whatnot and live their lives.  I am not sure the Palestinians would have the same viewpoint.  

[cactusflinthead 27594]

 

[David Dennison 18660]

3 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Different subject.  It is being stated that Israel purposely kills civilian Palestinians to make a point.  I don’t agree with that theory.  I find it interesting that many on this thread make it sound like the Jews in Israel are these horrible people who don’t want to live in peace but actually just want to kill Palestinians but all these super nice Palestinians who just want to live in peace with the Jews haven’t been part of the problem.  Talk about twisting the truth into a fairy tale.

Yeah, yeah, ethno state/apartheid but what happens if the Palestinians did take control of Israel?  They let the jews live there in peace?  Hamas disbands and goes into the t shirt business or something?  I actually have a few friends/business associates in Israel.  Some are Jews and some are Arab citizens there.  They don’t seem to have an issue with each other or at least that’s what they tell me.  They live in peace, go to work in the same city, eat some falafel or whatnot and live their lives.  I am not sure the Palestinians would have the same viewpoint.  

So Israel is obligated to oppress Palestinians to protect Jewish political power in an ostensible democracy?

[Beantown Express 2.0 6555]

11 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

So Israel is obligated to oppress Palestinians to protect Jewish political power in an ostensible democracy?

If you truly believe that is what is occurring then give me your alternative.  

[Ag with kids 581]

2 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

You’ve got to feel sorry for the kids. 

I don't.  They're smarter than you...

[David Dennison 18660]

2 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

If you truly believe that is what is occurring then give me your alternative.  

a) Leave the occupied territories and recognize a Palestinian state, or

b) Annex the occupied territories and make Palestinians Israeli citizens

[Beantown Express 2.0 6555]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

a) Leave the occupied territories and recognize a Palestinian state, or

b) Annex the occupied territories and make Palestinians Israeli citizens

And you believe either of those solves the issue and the Palestinians and Hamas recognize Israel as a country and live side by side in peace?

[Ag with kids 581]

50 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

This x1000. These supposed alpha males in the GOP suggest that a group of people whose land was stolen from them and then they were forced to travel around through checkpoints in their land should just “be nice”.

If that happened to you @Ag with kids is that what you would do? If so, I’m guessing you won’t mind if I call you a beta cuck?

I live in S Texas.  Every time I come back from Port Mansfield I go through a checkpoint.  I live through it.

But then, most of us down here don't want to kill a bunch of people after we get past the checkpoint.

And the hispanic folks down here mostly don't say we "stole" the land from them.  Probably because they know their ancestors stole it from New Spain.

 

BTW, I could seriously not care less what you call me.  I think I shall call you  

 

фаллоимитатор

[DonkeyCigars 144]

This thread has gotten nutty. It's chaos! @bad_teammate I owe you some thoughtful responses but didn't get online almost all weekend sorry.

[Ag with kids 581]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

a) Leave the occupied territories and recognize a Palestinian state, or

b) Annex the occupied territories and make Palestinians Israeli citizens

They LEFT Gaza, gave it to the Palestinians and were rewarded with rocket attacks.  THAT is why they went back in to stop shit.

[David Dennison 18660]

1 minute ago, Ag with kids said:

They LEFT Gaza, gave it to the Palestinians and were rewarded with rocket attacks.  THAT is why they went back in to stop shit.

I wonder if that had anything to do with Israel refusing to cede control of borders, airspace, and territorial waters. Oh, and the West Bank.

[Gatorubet 30115]

So, you're in the group of people that are lacking in reading comprehension.  I did not do that.

You do remember you rolled in saying you had not read all the posts - and then declared from your admittedly limited knowledge of the thread that a percentage of the board were Jewish genocide fans - right?

Maybe simma down a bit Cletus.

[David Dennison 18660]

12 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

I live in S Texas.  Every time I come back from Port Mansfield I go through a checkpoint.  I live through it.

But then, most of us down here don't want to kill a bunch of people after we get past the checkpoint.

And the hispanic folks down here mostly don't say we "stole" the land from them.  Probably because they know their ancestors stole it from New Spain.

 

BTW, I could seriously not care less what you call me.  I think I shall call you  

 

фаллоимитатор

Most Palestinians don't, either.

[WhatTheBuck 28713]

19 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

You do remember you rolled in saying you had not read all the posts - and then declared from your admittedly limited knowledge of the thread that a percentage of the board were Jewish genocide fans - right?

Maybe simma down a bit Cletus.

That’s disrespectful to all Cletuses everywhere.

[Brian Fantana 6668]

33 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Most Palestinians don't, either.

Don't you know that all Palestinians are Hamas?

[washparkhorn 9935]

9 hours ago, immamac said:

What the fuck is this thread

2021 Status update on the longstanding civil war amongst believers of the Abrahamic God (most notably Judaism, Islam, and Christianity)

 

Not a shit post. Just answering your question. 

 

[washparkhorn 9935]

War is human failure. Every damn time. It feeds on pain and suffering. Self-destructive.

A good book on it. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by washparkhorn

[hpslugga 4044]

8 hours ago, Ag with kids said:

They LEFT Gaza, gave it to the Palestinians and were rewarded with rocket attacks.  THAT is why they went back in to stop shit.

That’s another lie. You really need to stop showing your ass at this point because you’re just digging a deeper hole for yourself. Every major assertion you’ve made here has been absolutely wrong on absolutely all counts. And again, it’s all third person hearsay anyways. You’re just repeating some shit you heard from someone else and pretending that it’s actual fact. That’s. Fucking. Lying.

[TwiceHorn 31283]

11 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Have the non Jewish residents of Palestine ever had self rule? There was a Jewish majority in Roman times. After the fall of Rome the inhabitants were ruled by nomadic Arabic tribes up until the Ottoman Empire, who ruled up until its fall, correct? Has there ever been a state of Palestine? 

As far as I can tell, Palestine has never had self rule, no matter who occupies it.  It hasn't even been a vassal state.  Just a desert wasteland sporadically occupied by Arab outcasts and Jews with ZIonist fantasies.

Other than Jerusalem, there's never been anything much worth fighting for there.

I don't think those facts have any real bearing on anything today, 

Edited May 17, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Beantown Express 2.0 6555]

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

As far as I can tell, Palestine has never had self rule, no matter who occupies it.  It hasn't even been a vassal state.  Just a desert wasteland sporadically occupied by Arab outcasts and Jews with ZIonist fantasies.

Other than Jerusalem, there's never been anything much worth fighting for there.

I have never been there but I believe Tel Aviv and other areas have become pretty nice cities and there are nice beaches on the Med Sea.  

[Nivek 16861]

Well, not us.  As I said earlier, Iran and Russia (Interesting to know that Russia isn't the bad guy anymore, though) should step up their game since they're the ones supplying the weapons.  At least if they provided Hamas with guided weapons they wouldn't land indiscriminately...
Not that I actually advocate that idiocy, but I was following your lead...
 

Um, I am glad that you recognized the silliness of my rhetorical question. And I do like how you projected your statement which precipitated my silly response on to me, but I guess you “take no responsibility at all” like someone else.

Possibly they feel as if their citizens are being targeted then they lack any sympathy for their enemy’s citizen casualties.

Ill just ignore the ramblings about Russia as a lack of coffee or something and not a sign that you cannot exercise self control and stop slinging shit to see what sticks.

According to NPR this morning 11 children who had nothing to do with this conflict and do not understand it and bear no responsibility for it are gone.

I think I am not alone here, I generally default to siding with Israel. But that does not put them beyond reproach.

[956 Worldwide 34444]

I’ll say this, drawing explicit comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany (Auschwitz, itself even) is a pretty blistering hot take. There’s plenty of other conflicts and human rights violators out there where the comparisons are far more apt. 
 

It shows a remarkable lack of historical knowledge and context and seems deliberately inflammatory and edge-lordish. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I’ll say this, drawing explicit comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany (Auschwitz, itself even) is a pretty blistering hot take. There’s plenty of other conflicts and human rights violators out there where the comparisons are far more apt. 
 

It shows a remarkable lack of historical knowledge and context and seems deliberately inflammatory and edge-lordish. 

I agree that it's a wild and inappropriate comparison, which should (of course) highlight how absurd it is that Israel uses the specter of the Holocaust to justify its territorial aggression and slow-motion ethnic cleansing 2500 miles from Berlin and 75 years after Hitler ventilated his own skull.

At least Israel has a powerful military and every material advantage over its "adversary", whose main weapons are rocks and unguided rockets that kill fewer people in Israel than gender reveal rockets in America.

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 hour ago, hpslugga said:

That’s another lie. You really need to stop showing your ass at this point because you’re just digging a deeper hole for yourself. Every major assertion you’ve made here has been absolutely wrong on absolutely all counts. And again, it’s all third person hearsay anyways. You’re just repeating some shit you heard from someone else and pretending that it’s actual fact. That’s. Fucking. Lying.

To a person, self-identifying "Zionists" who are white gentiles are ignorant and motivated largely by cultural pressures and currents. Their church. Their political wing. The tools they use to believe in the tenets of their religious faith are applied to questions of secular history so seeking actual knowledge is pointless because truth, like groove, is in the heart.

He is factually "wrong" about basic points of history, sure, but he's right in spirit. Which is the spirit of "Muslims/Arabs are the bad guys in this grand story I adore and the Jews used to be as well, but kind of aren't for the time being, but will be again later when Christ returns"

Mix in Republican culture war politics and hey presto... a legion of goy morons.

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by bad_teammate

[956 Worldwide 34444]

53 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

As far as I can tell, Palestine has never had self rule, no matter who occupies it.  It hasn't even been a vassal state.  Just a desert wasteland sporadically occupied by Arab outcasts and Jews with ZIonist fantasies.

Other than Jerusalem, there's never been anything much worth fighting for there.

I don't think those facts have any real bearing on anything today, 

The Hasmoneans ruled the area as either a fully independent or semi-autonomous client state as a Jewish Kingdom for about 200 years until Herod the Great took over. First as a client king for the Romans and then the Roman Republic just absorbed the province. That’s the last time there was true self-rule.

Interestingly enough, the at the time of the first Crusade, the region had been controlled by the Shia Fatimid Caliphate that was currently running the show for only 100 years after their own crusade of sorts against a different Muslim dynasty. And the population was majority Christian and had been since the first wave of Arab invasions.

Most of the historical claims to that patch of dirt get really tenuous when you pull on a thread, which is why they should be mostly irrelevant when it comes to any solution and international law and treaty needs to come into play.