Emoni Bates - next big thing or nah?

[Baboontyme 2813]

I figure there has been enough hype that he deserves his own thread if Chet Holmgren has one. 

Background on Bates. First heard about him in 8th grade. 6'8 and growing, game modeled after KD. Heard more about him his freshman year at Ypsi (MI) Lincoln. Led his team to a State title. Hype building. Hearing "next LeBron" type of stuff. Being on the other side of my local area, started hearing more and more about the kid and his Dad and how his Dad was trying to set him up for success. Training videos surfaced of him knocking down something like 30 3s in a row from absurd distance. Sophomore year at Lincoln his season is cut short due to Covid in the State playoffs. Is named Gatorade National Player of the year. In 2020 we had been hearing that he was visiting Michigan State a lot and he had some friends on the team and was really enjoying the vibe up there. But this kid was the next LeBron so he wasn't setting foot on a college campus because the NBA would change their early entry rule. 

Then, everything changed. Dad decided to pull him from public school as the MHSAA was not going to have a season in 2021. Instead of a traditional prep school, he was going to start his own basketball prep academy to tour the country and let Emoni play against the best competition. They recruited a bunch of other D1 recruit types to play on the team. This is where it gets weird. 

The NBA early entry picture starts to crystalize a bit. NBA is not changing their rule until the CBA is up. There are rumors that Emoni will be on track to graduate early and will be looking to go to the next level after his Junior season. NBA G League rules say that you have to be 18 by September of that season to be eligible. Emoni will not be. He commits to Michigan State in an ESPN spot to hype his Dad's Ypsi Prep venture. 

This season (2021) is basically a disaster for Ypsi Prep. They are terrible and poorly coached (if you watched any of the games). Emoni has his moments but overall he shoots poorly and has some struggles. He displays some moments of poor sportsmanship to the untrained observant eye. Another local kid and 4* recruit in the '21 class who is committed to Michigan State is suddenly "parting ways" with Ypsi Prep after the elder Bates and perhaps Emoni himself exchanged words with him. Emoni gets shown up a few times, including by Holmgren and Duren. He sits out other games. His stock is starting to drop a little bit. 

Emoni declares he's decommitting from Michigan State and is opening up his recruitment to pro and college teams. This was a couple of weeks ago. I know that Texas offered, as did Baylor and a few others. Whether he will graduate early and move to the class of '21 is still unclear. If he does, he doesn't seem to be eligible for the G League, though Jeff Borzello seems to think the G League Ignite team has different age requirement rules (but doesn't know for sure - he was asked on Twitter and responded). 

So what's next? Another year at Ypsi Prep, traveling the country and getting beaten down by better teams and being poorly coached? Graduate early and attend college for a year and then go to G League? Graduate early and attend college for 2 years and straight to NBA? Overseas? 

Also how good is the kid? I don't think he's nearly the next LBJ or KD that he was hyped up to be. Might he be the first "big" who can expand the range in the gym to Steph/Dame proportions? Possibly. Who knows. 

It will be interesting to follow his path. Hindsight is 20/20 but it sure seems like a better move for him once it was clear he had to leave the MHSAA to play in 21 would have been to enroll at La Lu, or IMG or Huntington Prep or something and play there. 

[closetohumping 17449]

I was listening to the DP show way back when and I think they said Bates was a better prospect than Holmgren.

[Baboontyme 2813]

53 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I was listening to the DP show way back when and I think they said Bates was a better prospect than Holmgren.

When he was a freshman I think - and certainly when he was a soph - Bates was considered the best HS prospect out there, regardless of class. I am not a scout, but I would be surprised if those in the know would still consider that to be true a year + later. I've only seen Holmgren play the one time when they played each other, but he was spectacular. One theory I've seen written about is that Bates hasn't grown, is still 6'8 and as others around him have continued to grow, they have caught up. 

[closetohumping 17449]

2 minutes ago, Baboontyme said:

When he was a freshman I think - and certainly when he was a soph - Bates was considered the best HS prospect out there, regardless of class. I am not a scout, but I would be surprised if those in the know would still consider that to be true a year + later. I've only seen Holmgren play the one time when they played each other, but he was spectacular. One theory I've seen written about is that Bates hasn't grown, is still 6'8 and as others around him have continued to grow, they have caught up. 

Isn't Chet quite a bit taller?

[Baboontyme 2813]

Yeah he's a legit 7 footer. They didn't match up H2H on every possession when they played. Ypsi had another kid (Hunter? maybe?) that was a big and beefier than Emoni and he and Holmgren played mostly against each other. But yeah, I think Chet blocked Emoni a couple of times and hit some shots over him. I think Bates still pulled in 20-something in that game including a couple of ridiculous 35 footer type of 3s, but Chet's star shined a little brighter that night. Actually quite a bit. His potential was fully realized in that matchup whereas Emoni's was not. In my opinion. 

[immortal13 4059]

Highlight video?

[gsoda3 3263]

I think holmgren is better than Bates at this point. I also don't think holmgren is that good, he's too slow.

[NYCH1 17]

Decided less than 1080p highlights.

[Baboontyme 2813]

I was going to post a video but the videos are all the same. Dunks and jump shots that barely touch the rim. Kind of useless. It's obvious from the videos that Bates has nice form on his jumper, has good pull up game, very good handle for a kid his size and that he's a competitor. Of course it doesn't show the holes in his game that you see when you watch a full game - he doesn't play D, physically needs to get a lot stronger (who doesn't at that age), seems to have an attitude that borders right on the edge of chip vs. bad, shot a low % from the field this year (39% from the field, 26% from range according to Ypsi Prep's website, which I don't necessarily trust), etc. The jumper form looks great and I know he can shoot it, so I would expect those numbers to go up. 

I have contemplated a lot what he would look like in a college uniform. I think it would have been somewhat of a disaster if he had stuck with MSU, for a lot of reasons. The kid and his dad don't give off the appearance of a camp that is going to handle adversity or tough coaching very well. Izzo is smart enough to adjust and give a player of this caliber some extra leeway, but I don't necessarily think that would have played well with the culture of the program. One of the MSU writers floated a name that to me, hit the nail on the head. Jalen Johnson. I could easily see the Emoni experiment at the college level (if he goes that route) ending similarly. I don't think the player is NBA ready certainly at 16/17, but his game fits that mold much better than it would seem to in many college offenses. In my opinion. Keep in mind that after watching Foster Loyer tear up the HS circuit in MI including a team in the finals that had Xavier Tillman and Duane Washington on it, I said that I thought he would be an All B1G type of player by his Sr year. 

[Baboontyme 2813]

It sounds like Emoni is going to join Duren and play for Penny in Memphis, at least for a year. It will be very interesting to watch how this unfolds. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

i don't think much of Penny as a coach, but even he should be able to compete at a high level with that kind of talent.

[BigOrange1 6442]

i listened to a pod over the weekend that said duren could be the potential #1 pick in the 2022 draft.  that should definitely be a loaded team.

[jeevsie 3734]

On 8/17/2021 at 1:46 PM, shadow_operative said:

i don't think much of Penny Shaka as a coach, but even he should be able to compete at a high level with that kind of talent.

Wasn't this our line for the last few years?

[Michael Knight 12988]

hes gonna go waste a year at memphis 

 

 

[Helobious 9462]

Dads a pussy for not naming him Master. 

[ztejas 43475]

16 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Dads a pussy for not naming him Master. 

Yankees off tonight, huh?

[Helobious 9462]

53 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Yankees off tonight, huh?

Don’t know what to do with myself. Pinstripe alley is dead on off days. Should probably go do something productive like the other sheep in the world I guess. 

[ztejas 43475]

1 minute ago, Helobious said:

Don’t know what to do with myself. Pinstripe alley is dead on off days. Should probably go do something productive like the other sheep in the world I guess. 

Pads/Dodgers last night was pretty awesome. Playoff like atmosphere. 

[Bogeywon 2519]

I live in michigan heard he’s a head case

[Herpa Derpa 6126]

11 hours ago, Helobious said:

Dads a pussy for not naming him Master. 

Don't forget his good for nothing brother Repro.

[Baboontyme 2813]

Reading between the lines a little bit. I heard rumors that there was some fuckery afoot with the dad, Elgin. Not really fuckery, per se, but "promises". Those promises appear to be that Penny is going to let Emoni play the 1. I'm a little bit skeptical about player/skill fit at that position but it will be interesting to watch. 

Something else to keep in mind - barring a rule change, Emoni can't be drafted until Summer of 2023. So he's got 1 year at Memphis and 1 year of something else, or 2 years at Memphis. 

[Woodrow Call 494]

On 8/17/2021 at 1:46 PM, shadow_operative said:

i don't think much of Penny as a coach, but even he should be able to compete at a high level with that kind of talent.

His team was vastly improved by the final quarter of the season. Great defensive team. And now that he has Larry Brown, any strategic deficiencies should be minimized. 

[Woodrow Call 494]

12 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

hes gonna go waste a year at memphis 

 

 

No he's not. It's the smart move. He's surrounded himself with guys that are former NBA stars and champions. It's basically a development year with a solid coach with NBA coaching experience and a former all-star guard. 

[Baboontyme 2813]

Not working out so well. I'm going to go with Nah. The Dad who was determined to pave the path for his kid's success (in a shocking turn of events) has made selfish bad decision after selfish bad decision. He's been away from the team for a few weeks and they are winning without him. Dad insists he's not leaving the program but we'll see. Sucks, this kid had a lot of promise. Hopefully he can turn it around. And Memphis is sort of a disaster even without the Bates sideshow.