Robocalls - Why don't we fine the companies who spam phones?

[crash_davis 23,113]

So it's basically a joke/meme that EVERYONE gets robocalls for auto extended warranties. We are all trying to stop the robocalls but that shit will never happen. Robo calls and automation were built for each other.

So instead of trying to treat the symptom, why not treat the fucking problem, the asshole companies who use robocalls/spam for business.

It would be easy as fuck to punish the companies, so why aren't we doing it?

Until we make it painful for companies, we'll always have robocalls.

[You don't know me 1,161]

Instead of fining, I'd prefer public executions.

[Sandman 3,403]

I have moved past the car warranty and health insurance calls and now get solar power calls. 

[52-80 19,159]

until the politicians get their phones spammed, aint nobody gonna do shit

[crash_davis 23,113]

Are robocalls protected under freedom of speech? Maybe some asshole company would challenge under that premise if they were fined for robocalls.

[High Plains Drifter 11,049]

 

39 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

It would be easy as fuck to punish the companies, so why aren't we doing it?

 

 

what are campaign contributions?

 

[52-80 19,159]

politicians also use robocalls as part of their campaigns so...

[Red Five 40,859]

I’ve gotten a few calls recently from the IRS. Oddly enough it’s a spoofed Austin number, and the agent always has a very thick Indian accent and is calling from a call center. Weird.

[crash_davis 23,113]

6 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

politicians also use robocalls as part of their campaigns so...

hadn't thought of this. our problem is a small price to pay for their re-election campaigns.

[XYZ 2,154]

Because the regulatory agencies in this country have been captured by corporate America. It doesn’t mean anything to, for example, the FCC, if you get a million spam calls a day.

[Nivek 16,930]

spoofing is allowed because of law enforcement.  That should be a crime punishable in a North Korean prison.

[XYZ 2,154]

Just a couple of days ago there was a thing on the news about how there was some sort of proposal at the FCC to block calls from “unapproved” foreign carriers (most robocalls come from outside the USA, apparently), so AT&T, Verizon, and T Mobile went like “whoa, let’s not do anything rash here, we ask that you put this on hold so that the situation can be analyzed some more”. And here we are.

[CDAK 216]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

It would be easy as fuck to punish the companies, so why aren't we doing it?

It's actually not easy.

22 minutes ago, XYZ said:

Because the regulatory agencies in this country have been captured by corporate America. It doesn’t mean anything to, for example, the FCC, if you get a million spam calls a day.

This is not why robocalls are a problem. 

The robocalls are coming from fly-by-night companies, foreign scammers, and other neer-do-wells. It's difficult to identify and fine these people. Starbucks, Chase, Amazon, etc. have no interest in robocalling you about auto warranties. Think about what these calls are about - auto warranties and other bullshit scams. They come from spoofed numbers. Microsoft is not spoofing its number to robocall you about buying an Xbox.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,907]

Get fucking rid of the fucking ability to spoof fucking numbers.  There is no fucking good reason for that ability to be available.

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2,675]

Spoofing numbers to do scam/spam calls is illegal in Texas. Enforcement is non-existent and basically impossible. As everyone knew when the bill went into law.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,907]

If I was a multi Billionaire I would use a few hundred million to set up a group whose sole purpose was to track down spam texters and robocallers and eliminate them with a bullet to the forehead in the middle of the night. 

[Orange&White 5,528]

I am all for making all sales calls, whether robo or person to person, illegal.

I get probably 10-20 calls a fucking day on my work line. 

[crash_davis 23,113]

11 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

If I was a multi Billionaire I would use a few hundred million to set up a group whose sole purpose was to track down spam texters and robocallers and eliminate them with a bullet to the forehead in the middle of the night. 

covid is getting a head start. 

[Steel Shank 9,425]

13 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

If I was a multi Billionaire I would use a few hundred million to set up a group whose sole purpose was to track down spam texters and robocallers and eliminate them with a bullet to the forehead in the middle of the night. 

Then two chicks at the same time?

[Samson's Wig 3,192]

21 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

I am all for making all sales calls, whether robo or person to person, illegal.

I get probably 10-20 calls a fucking day on my work line. 

I am thankful that we're old school and everything is still funneled through receptionists.  They have been trained well to weed out the sales calls.

[Captainant 27,669]

42 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Get fucking rid of the fucking ability to spoof fucking numbers.  There is no fucking good reason for that ability to be available.

It's not so much that it was designed to be that way, but rather that our phone system is built on incredibly old technology and standards that were not designed with strong security and attribution capabilities in mind. Considering that most phone calls these days (and specifically spam calls) are actually VOIP calls retrofitted to the old phone system, we could address this with a certificate model much like how websites use HTTPS to validate and authenticate their "identity". 

But the essence of this problem isn't technical, its a lack of regulatory willpower to make it happen. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

2 hours ago, Red Five said:

I’ve gotten a few calls recently from the IRS. Oddly enough it’s a spoofed Austin number, and the agent always has a very thick Indian accent and is calling from a call center. Weird.

I had the same a few years ago. If I didn't pay them right then with a credit card, they were ordering the local police to come arrest me.

[atomheartbevo 89,672]

2 hours ago, Sandman said:

I have moved past the car warranty and health insurance calls and now get solar power calls. 

Yeah, but what about all of those Marriott points or whatever?

[XYZ 2,154]

3 hours ago, CDAK said:

This is not why robocalls are a problem. 

The robocalls are coming from fly-by-night companies, foreign scammers, and other neer-do-wells. It's difficult to identify and fine these people. Starbucks, Chase, Amazon, etc. have no interest in robocalling you about auto warranties. Think about what these calls are about - auto warranties and other bullshit scams. They come from spoofed numbers. Microsoft is not spoofing its number to robocall you about buying an Xbox.

The biggest American phone carriers are cockblocking regulation that would reduce the number of robocalls coming from abroad. Try to keep up.

[CDAK 216]

15 minutes ago, XYZ said:

The biggest American phone carriers are cockblocking regulation that would reduce the number of robocalls coming from abroad. Try to keep up.

Can you provide some specifics on this? 

[Sbbruin 21,853]

4 hours ago, Red Five said:

I’ve gotten a few calls recently from the IRS. Oddly enough it’s a spoofed Austin number, and the agent always has a very thick Indian accent and is calling from a call center. Weird.

Thick Indian accent, but his name is Fred.

[elfenix 34,242]

i get that and bullshit about buying a property i have listed.  fuck you.

if phone calls cost something there'd be very little robocalling.  make a phone call, pay a penny.  take a phone call, receive a penny back.  for real people and business you'd break even or wouldn't mind the cost.  for those whose strategies are to place a million calls before 9 on a wednesday, they'd be fucked. 

[The Gimp 346]

4 hours ago, crash_davis said:

hadn't thought of this. our problem is a small price to pay for their re-election campaigns.

Didn't Donald Trump call you last year?

[TwiceHorn 31,475]

I have had 11 fucking spam calls today, including 9 in the last hour and a half.  All of them "leaving a message" about pressing one for Amazon customer service.

Also same ac and prefix.  I haven't had many of those lately.

Fucking hell.

Edited May 14, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[conVINCEd 21,469]

Ever since Verizon implemented some sort of screening program I’m down to one or two per day.  Now those fuckers who leave voicemails without actually calling deserve a special place in hell.

[TwiceHorn 31,475]

Now up to 18.

[crash_davis 23,113]

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Now up to 18.

at&t?

[po elvis 2,070]

I have my dad's phone since he passed away last month. He gets all kinds of emails and texts from political organizations. A guy called right before the defund police vote in San Antonio trying to make sure my dad voted for it. The guy read from this rambling, long script. I just sat the phone down on my desk and let him keep going. I hear "Hello..." so I pick up. I said "could you repeat that?" He says "which part?" I say "The whole thing, I was kind of busy there and didn't hear it." He says "I sure can" and reads his script from the beginning. I sat the phone down again and had a good laugh.

[TwiceHorn 31,475]

10 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

at&t?

20 something.  Sprint/TMo.  This is the worst I have ever experienced by a mile.

[crash_davis 23,113]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

20 something.  Sprint/TMo.  This is the worst I have ever experienced by a mile.

TMO usually does a great job filtering spam calls. Did you come from Sprint? Install Tmobile Spam Shield and it will filter many of those calls. 

AT&T doesn't give a shit about filtering spam unless you pay them. My work phone is unusable because I get so many a day. I've open a ticket and they say they can't do anything unless my company signs up for the spam protection plan. Fuck those greedy bastards.

[TwiceHorn 31,475]

15 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

TMO usually does a great job filtering spam calls. Did you come from Sprint? Install Tmobile Spam Shield and it will filter many of those calls. 

AT&T doesn't give a shit about filtering spam unless you pay them. My work phone is unusable because I get so many a day. I've open a ticket and they say they can't do anything unless my company signs up for the spam protection plan. Fuck those greedy bastards.

They're all labeled scam likely, as opposed to outright spam.  I auto-block spam, but not scam likely, as I have had a few real calls get blocked that way.  This just using google dialer.

[clapclapclap 9,000]

THIS.

IS 

a Cold Call!

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by clapclapclap

[atomheartbevo 89,672]

3 hours ago, po elvis said:

I have my dad's phone since he passed away last month. He gets all kinds of emails and texts from political organizations. A guy called right before the defund police vote in San Antonio trying to make sure my dad voted for it. The guy read from this rambling, long script. I just sat the phone down on my desk and let him keep going. I hear "Hello..." so I pick up. I said "could you repeat that?" He says "which part?" I say "The whole thing, I was kind of busy there and didn't hear it." He says "I sure can" and reads his script from the beginning. I sat the phone down again and had a good laugh.

Actually, if everybody resolved to do something like this - tie up these people's time, it would probably cost the companies doing the spamming.

Seriously, If hundreds of thousands of people said "okay, I'm going to tie up the next spam call for 10 or 15 minutes", it might force them to change up what they are doing.  Right now, there's a lot of automation involved, and very little cost, but if you got a human involved and tied them up, that costs the companies.

[Lhorn 4,913]

I know nothing about it, but have always had the theory that either the phone companies didn’t put an end to this because they are getting paid or else the politicians were turning a blind eye because of political donations. 

If either of those are true then fuck those fucking cunts. It’s an issue that affects almost everyone with a phone and there are almost zero people who think of robocalls as a positive. It’s such low hanging fruit. A figurative waive of your hand and you’d make everyone’s life better. That no one in power gives a rip about this tells you all you need to know about how much politicians care about you.  Heads on a pike (figuratively)!

[Neonmoon 38,129]

If I was a billionaire, I would robocall every elected official and their family members until their ears bled, and if they switched numbers I would robocall the new number. And if they stopped using a phone, I would hire a guy with a recording tape and a speaker to follow those cunts around until they got the fucking point 

[XYZ 2,154]

6 hours ago, CDAK said:

Can you provide some specifics on this? 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/at-t-verizon-and-t-mobile-challenge-rule-targeting-robocalls-11620552600

[CDAK 216]

18 minutes ago, XYZ said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/at-t-verizon-and-t-mobile-challenge-rule-targeting-robocalls-11620552600

Thanks, the carriers concern seems very legitimate. The rule requires foreign carriers, such as carriers in India, to better block robocalls to the U.S. The U.S. carriers say some foreign carriers, such as those in India, don't have the capacity to identify and block robocalls to the U.S. The result would be blocking too many calls from India. So Americans' relatives in India would have a tough time calling their family in the U.S. The FCC can't increase Indian carriers' ability to stop robocalls via fiat.

If you think corporate America has captured the FCC to allow it to continue to make robocalls as you indicated earlier, you're delusional. Corporate America is not interested in spoofing numbers and robocalling people to scam them about auto warranties, pretending to be the IRS or SSA, etc. The people making these calls are not corporations lobbying government officials. They are crooks without FCC connections. 

[Brisketexan 105,142]

Spoofing numbers to do scam/spam calls is illegal in Texas. Enforcement is non-existent and basically impossible. As everyone knew when the bill went into law.

There’s a very simple solution: massive fines of the businesses using these robocallers. Most of the calls are soliciting on behalf of an actual auto warranty seller, an actual local duct cleaner, etc.

Prove that a sale originated from an illegal robocall, $100,000 fine. Second offense? $500k. Third? $1 million. And keep going up.

Those outfits will drop robocalling like that.

[CDAK 216]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

There’s a very simple solution: massive fines of the businesses using these robocallers. Most of the calls are soliciting on behalf of an actual auto warranty seller, an actual local duct cleaner, etc.

Prove that a sale originated from an illegal robocall, $100,000 fine. Second offense? $500k. Third? $1 million. And keep going up.

Those outfits will drop robocalling like that.

The TCPA has been around for years. Consumers can sue companies directly. There is a private right of action and high statutory damages. There are thousands of plaintiffs' attorneys who specialize in suing companies that get on the wrong side of the TCPA.

If there is an actual company selling auto warranties and they have agents spoofing numbers to robocall people, those people can sue directly and there are attorneys incentivized to help them. 

[DalTxHornFan 3,101]

I don't know if this guy that says he can get you paid if you handle robo-callers correctly is legit, but I saw this article this past week:

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/investigations/robocalls/kvue-defenders-robocalls-in-texas/269-982bfad0-28f5-4836-8c58-79128190e66f

Edited May 15, 2021 by DalTxHornFan

[Hagbard Celine 10,864]

21 hours ago, Captainant said:

It's not so much that it was designed to be that way, but rather that our phone system is built on incredibly old technology and standards that were not designed with strong security and attribution capabilities in mind. Considering that most phone calls these days (and specifically spam calls) are actually VOIP calls retrofitted to the old phone system, we could address this with a certificate model much like how websites use HTTPS to validate and authenticate their "identity". 

But the essence of this problem isn't technical, its a lack of regulatory willpower to make it happen. 

this.  your login credential is tied to your mac address.

your cell sim number is not transported over the ancient architecture past the "billing" part of the call.  it is only used for provisioning and billing.  @@ is good at using the sim for that.

follow the money.

@@ is not going to pay to upgrade the infrastructure to stop the problem and allow the endpoint to authenticate the inception device/location.

it would cost a trillion dollars.

not getting reported by the msm no way no how.

[XYZ 2,154]

12 hours ago, CDAK said:

Thanks, the carriers concern seems very legitimate. The rule requires foreign carriers, such as carriers in India, to better block robocalls to the U.S. The U.S. carriers say some foreign carriers, such as those in India, don't have the capacity to identify and block robocalls to the U.S. The result would be blocking too many calls from India. So Americans' relatives in India would have a tough time calling their family in the U.S. The FCC can't increase Indian carriers' ability to stop robocalls via fiat.

If you think corporate America has captured the FCC to allow it to continue to make robocalls as you indicated earlier, you're delusional. Corporate America is not interested in spoofing numbers and robocalling people to scam them about auto warranties, pretending to be the IRS or SSA, etc. The people making these calls are not corporations lobbying government officials. They are crooks without FCC connections. 

The carriers’ concern seems very legitimate??? Who gives a shit? What, AT&T is very worried that somebody in America is not gonna get the call from a relative in India? So all of us have to suffer this every day so that some dude can get his call? You seem dense, and I’m going to reiterate my position one last time. When I say that the regulatory bodies in the USA (in this case the FCC) are captured by corporate America, I don’t mean some shitty robocalling company in India. I mean AT&T, Verizon, etc. Why does the FCC listen to them instead of to us? Why is it that when there’s a conflict of interest between corporate America and the people of this country, corporate America ALWAYS fucking wins?

[CDAK 216]

33 minutes ago, XYZ said:

The carriers’ concern seems very legitimate??? Who gives a shit? What, AT&T is very worried that somebody in America is not gonna get the call from a relative in India? So all of us have to suffer this every day so that some dude can get his call? You seem dense, and I’m going to reiterate my position one last time. When I say that the regulatory bodies in the USA (in this case the FCC) are captured by corporate America, I don’t mean some shitty robocalling company in India. I mean AT&T, Verizon, etc. Why does the FCC listen to them instead of to us? Why is it that when there’s a conflict of interest between corporate America and the people of this country, corporate America ALWAYS fucking wins?

You are letting your politics prevent you from understanding the issue. Corporate America, at least the ones with money that lobby the government, is not interested in spoofing numbers and making robocalls. 
 

You can sue any company that robocalls you directly. You are entitled to $500 or $1500 per robocall. Numerous attorneys will help you. The FCC has no involvement in the lawsuit. 
 

You may not care about people being able to receive calls from relatives and friends in India, the Philippines, etc. But a lot of Americans do care about being able to communicate with family and friends over there.

[Captainant 27,669]

42 minutes ago, CDAK said:

You are letting your politics prevent you from understanding the issue. Corporate America, at least the ones with money that lobby the government, is not interested in spoofing numbers and making robocalls. 
 

You can sue any company that robocalls you directly. You are entitled to $500 or $1500 per robocall. Numerous attorneys will help you. The FCC has no involvement in the lawsuit. 
 

You may not care about people being able to receive calls from relatives and friends in India, the Philippines, etc. But a lot of Americans do care about being able to communicate with family and friends over there.

I think you're missing a bit with your framing. It's not that the major carriers WANT robocalling to continue, but they lack the will to spend the money to modernize their systems to mitigate the problem. It's not that robocalls are some great unknowable problem to solve, it's that the entities who operate the systems don't want to solve it. 

[CDAK 216]

30 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I think you're missing a bit with your framing. It's not that the major carriers WANT robocalling to continue, but they lack the will to spend the money to modernize their systems to mitigate the problem. It's not that robocalls are some great unknowable problem to solve, it's that the entities who operate the systems don't want to solve it. 

Disagree that I’m misframing. A few posters indicated that it was easy to identify and fine the companies making robocalls. We just need bigger fines and to get the FCC out of the clutches of the companies making robocalls. (Chicken, brisket, and XYZ). This is wrong and I pointed it out. People can sue directly for big damages. The FCC has no involvement in the suits. The robocallers are not easy to identify and fine.
 

I don’t know the technical infrastructure solution. I won’t dispute that piece but it’s a different argument from what I responded to.