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Robocalls - Why don't we fine the companies who spam phones?

crash_davis

By crash_davis
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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10,866

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, CDAK said:

You are letting your politics prevent you from understanding the issue. Corporate America, at least the ones with money that lobby the government, is not interested in spoofing numbers and making robocalls.

You can sue any company that robocalls you directly. You are entitled to $500 or $1500 per robocall. Numerous attorneys will help you. The FCC has no involvement in the lawsuit.

You may not care about people being able to receive calls from relatives and friends in India, the Philippines, etc. But a lot of Americans do care about being able to communicate with family and friends over there.

XYZ is correct about your density.

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10,866

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Captainant said:

I think you're missing a bit with your framing. It's not that the major carriers WANT robocalling to continue, but they lack the will to spend the money to modernize their systems to mitigate the problem. It's not that robocalls are some great unknowable problem to solve, it's that the entities who operate the systems don't want to solve it. 

and it's amazing that not one single mainstream media entity of any kind will report anything other than "derp"

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10,866

Posted
Posted

The answer to the title of the thread is this:

1. Telco, like all extremely large regulated oligopolies in the US, are in deep capture.

2. Regulatory agency (FCC) fines of anyone or anything, anywhere, at anytime, results in nasty shit like discovery and depositions.

3. Trillion-dollar problems owned by the captured oligopoly then become exposed, and keeping the sheeple, kettles, and aqqy inoculated from reality becomes difficult.

4. Thus, there can be no legal actions.

5. Therefore, there can be no fines.

6. Abracadabra.

Praise Bob.

Praise the Laser Projekt.

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NeverMarryAStripper

NeverMarryAStripper 21,907

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Captainant said:

I think you're missing a bit with your framing. It's not that the major carriers WANT robocalling to continue, but they lack the will to spend the money to modernize their systems to mitigate the problem. It's not that robocalls are some great unknowable problem to solve, it's that the entities who operate the systems don't want to solve it. 

Don't want to do it then you lose the right to use the frequencies.  They don't do it because buying members of Congress is cheaper.

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CDAK

CDAK 216

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Hagbard Celine said:

The answer to the title of the thread is this:

1. Telco, like all extremely large regulated oligopolies in the US, are in deep capture.

2. Regulatory agency (FCC) fines of anyone or anything, anywhere, at anytime, results in nasty shit like discovery and depositions.

3. Trillion-dollar problems owned by the captured oligopoly then become exposed, and keeping the sheeple, kettles, and aqqy inoculated from reality becomes difficult.

4. Thus, there can be no legal actions.

5. Therefore, there can be no fines.

6. Abracadabra.

Praise Bob.

Praise the Laser Projekt.

I didn't realize you were a "sheeple" and "msm" cover-up guy. I don't even know what a "kettle" is but I assume it's more evidence that you're a lunatic. On the off chance that you do have some semblance of mental faculties, however unlikely, you're very wrong about the lack of legal actions and discovery. Robocalling is an absolute hotbed of litigation. There have been literally tens of thousands of depositions, thousands of legal actions, and a plethora of discovery under the TCPA over the last 15 years or so.

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10,866

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, CDAK said:

I didn't realize you were a "sheeple" and "msm" cover-up guy. I don't even know what a "kettle" is but I assume it's more evidence that you're a lunatic. On the off chance that you do have some semblance of mental faculties, however unlikely, you're very wrong about the lack of legal actions and discovery. Robocalling is an absolute hotbed of litigation. There have been literally tens of thousands of depositions, thousands of legal actions, and a plethora of discovery under the TCPA over the last 15 years or so.

Show me the money.

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8,349

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, CDAK said:

I didn't realize you were a "sheeple" and "msm" cover-up guy. I don't even know what a "kettle" is but I assume it's more evidence that you're a lunatic. On the off chance that you do have some semblance of mental faculties, however unlikely, you're very wrong about the lack of legal actions and discovery. Robocalling is an absolute hotbed of litigation. There have been literally tens of thousands of depositions, thousands of legal actions, and a plethora of discovery under the TCPA over the last 15 years or so.

Hagbard has been pilled recently. It is difficult to determine which color pill he's chosen; I'll give him that, but it's been odd to see the last year or so. 

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Nivek

Nivek 16,933

Posted
Posted

I used to get some texts where they would charge my at&t account for it. I was supposed to opt out of paying not opt in.

At&t pretended there was nothing they could do, but refunded me the charges. It happened again and again they refunded me. And a 3rd time, and refunds. It finally stopped.

Still, I was curious to start a firm that auto charges every subscriber to at&t $5 for each line.

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AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11,765

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Still, I was curious to start a firm that auto charges every subscriber to at&t $5 for each line.

there are whole groups already doing this.

The money comes from the 15% of the population that never checks their bills to see where the costs are coming from.    so you get  1,00,000 idiots who originally subscribed to a "free cat facts" text message service who then got bored, blocked the number, but forgot they would be charged... and now the company is making $500-$750k a month.  With maybe $20k in overhead to schedule the texts through servers and billing info  maybe 5 employees at $5k a month each and poof...  major profit.

they dont care if 90% of their charges are credited back, they are still making a half mil a month at $5 at a time.

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Dennis Taylor

Dennis Taylor 18,829

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 5/14/2021 at 6:56 PM, po elvis said:

I have my dad's phone since he passed away last month. He gets all kinds of emails and texts from political organizations. A guy called right before the defund police vote in San Antonio trying to make sure my dad voted for it. The guy read from this rambling, long script. I just sat the phone down on my desk and let him keep going. I hear "Hello..." so I pick up. I said "could you repeat that?" He says "which part?" I say "The whole thing, I was kind of busy there and didn't hear it." He says "I sure can" and reads his script from the beginning. I sat the phone down again and had a good laugh.

I enjoy fucking with these people if I'm not busy at the time. I told one of the warranty people since he called me he should probably already know what I drove, but I'd love to get an extended warranty and since I drive a 2019 corvette, price was no object. Fred from Pakistan quickly transferred me to someone that said they were in Florida who sounded like a native English speaker so may have been true. After bullshitting him for a few more questions I got bored and told him he was a piece of shit con artist and to go fuck himself. He just laughed and hung up.  My guess is the call center gets paid to make X- thousands of calls, and gets a little more for leads that they transfer to the salesperson scam artist

Edited by Dennis Taylor
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Lhorn

Lhorn 4,913

Posted
Posted
On 5/15/2021 at 8:48 PM, immortal13 said:

The punishment for this crime should include being locked in a cell while the ringing of a telephone is being played on a nonstop loop

....while being drawn and quartered by 4 F250s..... over a bed of fire ants....... then hosed down with a flame thrower.

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Dennis Taylor

Dennis Taylor 18,829

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, StruggleBus said:

New legislation around 10DLC should significantly reduce spam. You’ll still get legal cold calls, but it should hopefully reduce the scammers 

That would be nice...but in my experience criminals don't give a fuck about legislation, old or new 

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Doc Reeves

Doc Reeves 6,434

Posted
Posted

Just got a scam call from one of those people spoofing CPS right now and trying to get a payment over the phone. Thick Indian accent and pretty obvious but if I were sleepy or super distracted could have fallen for it. I have several electrical accounts because of the business so I asked “which address is delinquent?” And there was an “uhhhhh…”

sorry if it’s the wrong thread but I thought I should share 

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StruggleBus

StruggleBus 3,922

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Dennis Taylor said:

That would be nice...but in my experience criminals don't give a fuck about legislation, old or new 

It’s a combination of legislation and technology from the carriers. Legitimate business will register and show up as certified on your phone.

But yeah, legislation on its own won’t do anything. 

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SHOOTER12

SHOOTER12 8,810

Posted
Posted
On 5/14/2021 at 11:48 AM, Sandman said:

I have moved past the car warranty and health insurance calls and now get solar power calls. 

I just turned 64, and it's medicare and medicaid and disability and life insurance.

Probably about 50 per day.

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Lhorn

Lhorn 4,913

Posted
Posted

I get the vacation club associated with Marriot and car warranty renewal almost exclusively. 
I’ve gotten the thick Indian accent guy from Microsoft who found out that my computer was infected with a virus and wanted to help me clear that up. Isn’t that nice of them?

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Red Five

Red Five 40,859

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Keep them on the phone, and keep threatening to pay them what they say you owe. It’s great fun. 

Oh I love it. I keep them on for as long as possible. 

Just got the Amazon one too. "If you didn't authorize a payment of $1,500, press 1". 

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  • 1 month later...
Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan 4,007

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I pretty much set my phone to only allows calls from my contact list. Cuts down on so much bullshit. Fuck phone companies for allowing this and fuck out government too for allowing this.

Yeah I don't think many people know about this.  I get that some are in jobs that this wouldn't work, but for the rest of the population you can save yourself a lot of frustration by silencing unknown callers.

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XYZ

XYZ 2,154

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I pretty much set my phone to only allows calls from my contact list. Cuts down on so much bullshit. Fuck phone companies for allowing this and fuck out government too for allowing this.

I also silence unknown callers. Wish I could do the same text messages. 100% agree with “fuck phone companies and the government for allowing this”.

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Armybrat

Armybrat 40,850

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, XYZ said:

This is why we can’t have nice things. So three brothers in NJ placed 45 million robocalls and they got caught, but did anybody go to jail? NO. Pay a “settlement” and keep on trucking.

I think those three mofos should get the concrete shoes treatment, as well as all the rest of the scum involved.

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TexasEd

TexasEd 8,067

Posted
Posted
On 5/20/2021 at 3:06 PM, Doc Reeves said:

Just got a scam call from one of those people spoofing CPS right now and trying to get a payment over the phone. Thick Indian accent and pretty obvious but if I were sleepy or super distracted could have fallen for it. I have several electrical accounts because of the business so I asked “which address is delinquent?” And there was an “uhhhhh…”

sorry if it’s the wrong thread but I thought I should share 

Yeah CPS = City Public Service in San Antonio

Has an unfortunate common TLA with Child Protective Services so I had to read the whole thing for context and clear my first impression.

 

 

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Blotto

Blotto 23,518

Posted
Posted

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/08/fcc-slaps-300m-fine-on-largest-illegal-robocall-operation-its-ever-seen/

Quote

"An international network of companies violated federal statutes and the Commission's regulations when they executed a scheme to make more than five billion robocalls to more than 500 million phone numbers during a three-month span in 2021, including violating federal spoofing laws by using more than one million different caller ID numbers in an attempt to disguise the true origin of the robocalls and trick victims into answering the phone," the FCC said.

Pretty sure I received about 3% of those.

Quote

Cox was banned from telemarketing in a 2013 settlement with the FTC, which accused him of sending "illegal robocalls offering credit card interest rate reduction programs, extended automobile warranties, and home security systems." At the time, the FTC said that Cox was issued "a $1.1 million civil penalty that will be suspended due to his inability to pay."

In 2017, the FTC obtained a similar telemarketing ban on Jones. He was also fined $2.7 million, but, as with Cox, the fine was "suspended based on his inability to pay."

I'm sure they will pay up this time. How about we just throw these cockbags in jail? 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,147

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Blotto said:

which accused him of sending "illegal robocalls offering credit card interest rate reduction programs, extended automobile warranties, and home security systems."

Ok, so here's the thing: each one of those things offered (CC rate reduction program, auto warranties, security systems) are REAL businesses.  There are actual enterprises behind those who would benefit from any customer generated by those robocalls.  So....MAKE THEM LIABLE.  I offer the simple Brisketexan amendment to the current law:

"Any enterprise who engaged a person to make such robocalls, by employment, contract, or any other means, is equally and entirely liable for the full fine/civil penalty permitted by law."

Want to put robocallers out of business?  Let businesses know that if they hire a robocaller, they'll be on the hook for a multimillion dollar civil penalty.

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 34,715

Posted
Posted

I’ve posted here before about this but it bears repeating. I believe that the relentless assault of scams and the continued blurring of lines between scam and business has done more than anything a politician has to destroy the social fabric of our society. It really is astonishing how many fucking con attempts we have to fight off each day. 

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pantone159

pantone159 719

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I’ve posted here before about this but it bears repeating. I believe that the relentless assault of scams and the continued blurring of lines between scam and business has done more than anything a politician has to destroy the social fabric of our society. It really is astonishing how many fucking con attempts we have to fight off each day. 

And real soon now, we are going to get an even more massive deluge of scams using generative AI to automate fraud even more. I am pessimistic that the only real 'killer app' of this latest batch of generative AI is going to be fraud.

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Captainant

Captainant 27,677

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I’ve posted here before about this but it bears repeating. I believe that the relentless assault of scams and the continued blurring of lines between scam and business has done more than anything a politician has to destroy the social fabric of our society. It really is astonishing how many fucking con attempts we have to fight off each day. 

 

31 minutes ago, pantone159 said:

And real soon now, we are going to get an even more massive deluge of scams using generative AI to automate fraud even more. I am pessimistic that the only real 'killer app' of this latest batch of generative AI is going to be fraud.

The really fucked up thing is that the phone companies processing these spam calls and texts are fully aware of the spoofers. They generate revenue from the sheer volume of calls and especially each time someone picks up on a spam call. If we want to stop the spammers and scammers, we should be going after the phone companies who know the calls aren't genuine but connect them nonetheless. 

But unfortunately, regulation is socialism. Or something like that. 

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Surly Bevo

Surly Bevo 24,926

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, pantone159 said:

And real soon now, we are going to get an even more massive deluge of scams using generative AI to automate fraud even more. I am pessimistic that the only real 'killer app' of this latest batch of generative AI is going to be fraud.

Don't forget porn

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Nivek

Nivek 16,933

Posted
Posted
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/08/fcc-slaps-300m-fine-on-largest-illegal-robocall-operation-its-ever-seen/
"An international network of companies violated federal statutes and the Commission's regulations when they executed a scheme to make more than five billion robocalls to more than 500 million phone numbers during a three-month span in 2021, including violating federal spoofing laws by using more than one million different caller ID numbers in an attempt to disguise the true origin of the robocalls and trick victims into answering the phone," the FCC said.
Pretty sure I received about 3% of those.
Cox was banned from telemarketing in a 2013 settlement with the FTC, which accused him of sending "illegal robocalls offering credit card interest rate reduction programs, extended automobile warranties, and home security systems." At the time, the FTC said that Cox was issued "a $1.1 million civil penalty that will be suspended due to his inability to pay."
In 2017, the FTC obtained a similar telemarketing ban on Jones. He was also fined $2.7 million, but, as with Cox, the fine was "suspended based on his inability to pay."
I'm sure they will pay up this time. How about we just throw these cockbags in jail? 

Maybe a new amendment is needed to deal with mass fraud/crimes. Every 100 crimes you commit gets bumped to a felony. 3 felonies = life in jail. And maybe if one stacks up 50 felonies they are not executed, just released into the middle of the ocean without a boat.
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Bevo

Bevo 13,577

Posted
Posted
On 7/19/2021 at 2:04 PM, Nicole44 said:
On 7/19/2021 at 11:08 AM, Pancho said:

I started getting spam FaceTime calls. They’d happen one right after the other. I disabled FaceTime several months ago for this reason.

Stop hanging out with strippers! 

FED3AE93-0225-452F-8AB3-4E52C472C4A3.thu

 

Nicole. :(

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