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2021 NBA Playoffs

Machinator

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Patrick Bateman

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1 hour ago, CurlyDumps said:

So where is Kawhi going after he opts out?

I understand this is probably a quip, but if taken at face value, ESPN started a rumor about Miami.  I think he re-signs on another short term contract and gives it a go.  This is basically a team he and his handlers constructed with PG13 and Lue.  They hav 75m going to those guys per year.  

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dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2724

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7 hours ago, ztejas said:

Kawhi's actually been good. It's his team I'm wondering about. 

He doesn’t really make his teammates better.  Whether that is with his play or with leadership/ intangibles.  
he never really had to do that with the Spurs.  
In the era of high usage superstars he still only has  one triple double in his career and his best season averaged just over 5 assists. 

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Kermit

Kermit 3156

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34 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

He doesn’t really make his teammates better.  Whether that is with his play or with leadership/ intangibles.  
he never really had to do that with the Spurs.  
In the era of high usage superstars he still only has  one triple double in his career and his best season averaged just over 5 assists. 

You mean the guy who left a team in the middle of a season to hide in NY isn’t a good teammate? The guy who didn’t show up to support his team in the playoffs isn’t a good teammate? Even the dude who cheated on his wife with another teammate’s wife thinks Kawhi is a bad teammate. 

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aggie08

aggie08 21505

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Just a terrible matchup for the Clippers. They have, inarguably, the best two on-ball wing defenders in the league, but Dallas's two best players are a dominant big man and a quick little point guard...[checks notes]...ohhhhh. Ohhh. Oh. Well, that's embarrassing.

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aggie08

aggie08 21505

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3 minutes ago, Kermit said:

Hahahahaha. Please let these assholes get swept. Please. I need this. 

Ty Lue sure was a lot better coach when he got to say, "LeBron, do something!" 

Now he's coaching a team that's among the 5 worst teams in crunch time (last 5 minutes of a close game), and the other 4 were just bad lottery teams with no stars.

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Kermit

Kermit 3156

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9 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Ty Lue sure was a lot better coach when he got to say, "LeBron, do something!" 

Now he's coaching a team that's among the 5 worst teams in crunch time (last 5 minutes of a close game), and the other 4 were just bad lottery teams with no stars.

iverson step over GIF by NBA

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ztejas

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Ty Lue sure was a lot better coach when he got to say, "LeBron, do something!" 

Now he's coaching a team that's among the 5 worst teams in crunch time (last 5 minutes of a close game), and the other 4 were just bad lottery teams with no stars.

Well like Dingleberry was saying Kawhi doesn't really elevate his teammates like some other stars do. Even someone like KD is much more vocal, has less tunnelvision and just seems like he cares more. 

Both of Kawhi's titles came on teams that were extremely well coached and very deep with a ton of leaders and high IQ players. So Kawhi could just go do his thing on both ends and not have to worry about figuring anything out or getting the best out of his teammates. In 2014 he was marginally our best player. In 2015 he wilted when we lost to the Clippers and fucking 38 year old Timmy outplayed him. In 2016 KD just straight up outplayed him. In 2017 he got Zazaed so maybe that would have been the exception to the rule but who knows. I'm much more confident Kawhi loses the 2019 Finals with KD healthy than I am in the 2017 Spurs winning that W's series with Kawhi healthy. 

No doubt he's an all timer and he proved that in that 2019 run - but that Toronto team was tailor-made for him to win with and then they got a hobbled GS in the Finals. 

So far in this Clippers experiment he's blown a 3-1 lead to some meddling teenagers as I believe the NBA title favorite and is about to lose to a Dallas team that has like 1 superstar and 3 nice pieces and a bunch of loose parts. 

I can admit he's a phenomenal basketball player but he's a snake bitch and he will never be at the level of KD and LeBron or be as complete of a player. If he really wanted to win last night he should have 1. Played better defense and 2. Shot the ball 35 times. But maybe he doesn't care that much. 

I think a good example of this is how these guys motivate themselves - or just their motivation in general. We roll our eyes at some of the stuff LeBron says in the media like "feel free to not believe in us" or wev the fuck or KD arguing on Twitter with randos or shit talking opposing fans during games but really that just shows you how much those guys burn to win. MJ did the same shit - you never wanted to fuck with or challenge any of those guys or try and get under their skin. It makes them play better and makes that fire burn hotter - sometimes with Kawhi it just feels like that fire is missing or it's always the same temperature. 

And then someone like Duncan, sure he was quiet, but you never questioned his dedication to winning. 

Kawhi is more like a Shaq or Harden where sure they are amazing talents but you just wonder how much they actually care at the end of the day. 

Edited by ztejas
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ztejas

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

He’s not a Top 5 guy.

Certainly not right now. I think he absolutely was in 2017 and 2019. I don't think he's ever been a better player than KD or LeBron, though. 

Fun fact: Kawhi wasn't even in the league the last time Durant or LeBron lost in the first round. And Durant has won in the first round twice without his best teammate since then and LeBron has been on some questionable teams that easily could have. 

Edited by ztejas
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gsoda3

gsoda3 3263

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1 hour ago, immortal13 said:

Lulz

they asked lue last night at the start of the 3rd quarter what they're gonna do to stop luka, and he said coming into the game they wanted to play luka 1 on 1 to keep the ball out of the hands of the other guys.  

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ztejas

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2 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

they asked lue last night at the start of the 3rd quarter what they're gonna do to stop luka, and he said coming into the game they wanted to play luka 1 on 1 to keep the ball out of the hands of the other guys.  

bold GIF

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ztejas

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3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

C'mon, man.

Yeah I knew that wasn't going to stand. I mean I'd take Kyrie over 3 or 4 of those guys but he ain't Kawhi. 

I mean I literally don't think Westbrook is a top 50 player in the league anymore. 

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ztejas

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8 minutes ago, Baboontyme said:

Silly me. I thought the Clips would have some pride after being embarrassed last year by the Nuggets and basically being the laughingstock of LA for a full season. Lesson learned. 

Game 1 wasn't some anomaly. Luka gave these guys hell last year and this year the Mavs are better and the Clips are worse. This isn't a matter of the Clippers just "turning it on". Both of these teams are playing their games and LA is just getting beat. 

I don't understand how Vegas had Dallas +7 last night. That may end up being the worst line of the playoffs for a team covering a + and winning. It went 13 in the other direction and it could have been worse. 

I mean for reference - the Celtics have been +8 and +9 against Brooklyn and they gave LA 7 points against Luka last night. 

Edited by ztejas
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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18550

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45 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Well like Dingleberry was saying Kawhi doesn't really elevate his teammates like some other stars do. Even someone like KD is much more vocal, has less tunnelvision and just seems like he cares more. 

Both of Kawhi's titles came on teams that were extremely well coached and very deep with a ton of leaders and high IQ players. So Kawhi could just go do his thing on both ends and not have to worry about figuring anything out or getting the best out of his teammates. In 2014 he was marginally our best player. In 2015 he wilted when we lost to the Clippers and fucking 38 year old Timmy outplayed him. In 2016 KD just straight up outplayed him. In 2017 he got Zazaed so maybe that would have been the exception to the rule but who knows. I'm much more confident Kawhi loses the 2019 Finals with KD healthy than I am in the 2017 Spurs winning that W's series with Kawhi healthy. 

No doubt he's an all timer and he proved that in that 2019 run - but that Toronto team was tailor-made for him to win with and then they got a hobbled GS in the Finals. 

So far in this Clippers experiment he's blown a 3-1 lead to some meddling teenagers as I believe the NBA title favorite and is about to lose to a Dallas team that has like 1 superstar and 3 nice pieces and a bunch of loose parts. 

I can admit he's a phenomenal basketball player but he's a snake bitch and he will never be at the level of KD and LeBron or be as complete of a player. If he really wanted to win last night he should have 1. Played better defense and 2. Shot the ball 35 times. But maybe he doesn't care that much. 

I think a good example of this is how these guys motivate themselves - or just their motivation in general. We roll our eyes at some of the stuff LeBron says in the media like "feel free to not believe in us" or wev the fuck or KD arguing on Twitter with randos or shit talking opposing fans during games but really that just shows you how much those guys burn to win. MJ did the same shit - you never wanted to fuck with or challenge any of those guys or try and get under their skin. It makes them play better and makes that fire burn hotter - sometimes with Kawhi it just feels like that fire is missing or it's always the same temperature. 

And then someone like Duncan, sure he was quiet, but you never questioned his dedication to winning. 

Kawhi is more like a Shaq or Harden where sure they are amazing talents but you just wonder how much they actually care at the end of the day. 

Kawhi's problem has nothing to do with his being driven to win or motivation or willing to put the work in. By all accounts, he was one of the hardest working and coachable guys that ever came through San Antonio. His work ethic was legendary and you don't mold yourself into an MVP-caliber player without being motivated. But championship basketball is about way more than just honing your individual skills. It's about sacrificing your personal glory and elevating your teammates for the greater good.

And I don't think that Kawhi is a selfish player on the court, at all. But he has next to zero communication skills and he's never had to be a leader. He's also acted like a spoiled child ever since he faked his quad injury with the Spurs. Then he got coddled by the Raptors and fellated by the Clippers. He's been completely enabled all the while being used and influenced by his uncle. All of those stories that came out after last season about how they had separate rules for Kawhi and Paul George - you don't build a championship culture that way. Your teammates aren't going to go to war for you. They aren't going to fight for you when you're down. You look at championship teams, the best player is usually also the leader: Russell, Magic, Lebron, MJ, Duncan, Isiah, Bird, Kobe, Curry. Kawhi is never going to be that guy. 

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TommyGufano

TommyGufano 6021

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1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

Just a terrible matchup for the Clippers. They have, inarguably, the best two on-ball wing defenders in the league, but Dallas's two best players are a dominant big man and a quick little point guard...[checks notes]...ohhhhh. Ohhh. Oh. Well, that's embarrassing.

I'd rather throw Simmons and Thybulle at LD defensively than those 2 .... it's just they'd combine for 60 fewer pts than KL and PG did last night

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3446

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2 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

He doesn’t really make his teammates better.  Whether that is with his play or with leadership/ intangibles.  
he never really had to do that with the Spurs.  
In the era of high usage superstars he still only has  one triple double in his career and his best season averaged just over 5 assists. 

Such a great point. In today's NBA, where good teams have no less than 3 shooters on the court at a time (really good teams have  at least 4) and defenders can't hold or physically inhibit offensive players from getting to where they want to go, Kawhi is a 1 tool player. Shit we have players like Julius Randle averaging 6+ assist/gm in today's NBA. Now don't get me wrong, Kawhi is an absolute killer in that one tool, but he should be so much more. And the leadership/intangibles portion can't be overlooked. Has there ever been a team as talented as this that was so clearly a front running team, totally incapable of handling the least bit of adversity?

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Kermit

Kermit 3156

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9 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Such a great point. In today's NBA, where good teams have no less than 3 shooters on the court at a time (really good teams have  at least 4) and defenders can't hold or physically inhibit offensive players from getting to where they want to go, Kawhi is a 1 tool player. Shit we have players like Julius Randle averaging 6+ assist/gm in today's NBA. Now don't get me wrong, Kawhi is an absolute killer in that one tool, but he should be so much more. And the leadership/intangibles portion can't be overlooked. Has there ever been a team as talented as this that was so clearly a front running team, totally incapable of handling the least bit of adversity?

I’ll take the Aught’s Phoenix Suns for $800, Alex.

Edited by Kermit
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ztejas

ztejas 43476

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34 minutes ago, Kermit said:

I’ll take the Aught’s Phoenix Suns for $800, Alex.

DeRozan Raptors. Lillard Blazers. 

Not sure either of those teams are as talented, though. 

(Lillard's Blazers probably not fair - they've won some tough series)

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ztejas

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50 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Kawhi's problem has nothing to do with his being driven to win or motivation or willing to put the work in. By all accounts, he was one of the hardest working and coachable guys that ever came through San Antonio. His work ethic was legendary and you don't mold yourself into an MVP-caliber player without being motivated.

I don't doubt he works hard and plays to win. I'm just saying I don't think losing burns him as much as the guys I listed. 

If it did - I don't think he'd be down 0-2 right now. What has Kawhi done since that Nuggets series to turn this team around? Putting up jumpers in an empty gym doesn't count. 

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21861

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2 hours ago, ztejas said:

Yeah I knew that wasn't going to stand. I mean I'd take Kyrie over 3 or 4 of those guys but he ain't Kawhi. 

I mean I literally don't think Westbrook is a top 50 player in the league anymore. 

Yeah, that’s not a good take.  Not top 50?  Alrighty then.

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3446

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1 hour ago, ztejas said:

I don't doubt he works hard and plays to win. I'm just saying I don't think losing burns him as much as the guys I listed. 

If it did - I don't think he'd be down 0-2 right now. What has Kawhi done since that Nuggets series to turn this team around? Putting up jumpers in an empty gym doesn't count. 

Kawhi has all the qualities you'd expect from a cyborg. All of the technical skill and precise efficiency of a machine without any of the empathy or human qualities needed to galvanize and lead his teammates through tough times. 

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21469

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7 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

If I was an NBA GM and you offered Russ to me for a conditional second round pick I wouldn’t make the trade.  The only other “star” player I would’ve said that about is Carmelo during his time in NYC/OKC.  It’s a combo of his salary and selfishness.

Edited:  John Wall also makes the list because of injuries, which is oddly who Russ was traded for.

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21861

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3 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

If I was an NBA GM and you offered Russ to me for a conditional second round pick I wouldn’t make the trade.  The only other “star” player I would’ve said that about is Carmelo during his time in NYC/OKC.  It’s a combo of his salary and selfishness.

Edited:  John Wall also makes the list because of injuries, which is oddly who Russ was traded for.

And that is why you aren’t an NBA GM.

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d2o

d2o 1602

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2 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Kawhi's problem has nothing to do with his being driven to win or motivation or willing to put the work in. By all accounts, he was one of the hardest working and coachable guys that ever came through San Antonio. His work ethic was legendary and you don't mold yourself into an MVP-caliber player without being motivated. But championship basketball is about way more than just honing your individual skills. It's about sacrificing your personal glory and elevating your teammates for the greater good.

And I don't think that Kawhi is a selfish player on the court, at all. But he has next to zero communication skills and he's never had to be a leader. He's also acted like a spoiled child ever since he faked his quad injury with the Spurs. Then he got coddled by the Raptors and fellated by the Clippers. He's been completely enabled all the while being used and influenced by his uncle. All of those stories that came out after last season about how they had separate rules for Kawhi and Paul George - you don't build a championship culture that way. Your teammates aren't going to go to war for you. They aren't going to fight for you when you're down. You look at championship teams, the best player is usually also the leader: Russell, Magic, Lebron, MJ, Duncan, Isiah, Bird, Kobe, Curry. Kawhi is never going to be that guy. 

Precisely this.    SA and TOR both had teams with leaders everywhere.   He was just allowed to do what he does best, score and be a mute.   He wanted to go to the Clips but they have no one.   An asshole like Pat Beverly is their de facto leader.   Add in the special treatment Kawhi asked for and got its no wonder they have no cohension.

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