2021 NBA Playoffs

[Kermit 3,157]

Derka: No I hate them more.

Z: No, I hate them more.

Derka: No, I do.

Z: No…

 

[Braff Zacklin 13,628]

[ztejas 43,503]

41 minutes ago, Kermit said:

Derka: No I hate them more.

Z: No, I hate them more.

Derka: No, I do.

Z: No…

 

 

2 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

What's worse is I decidedly took some of this to pms and yet it's still leaking. 

[Loch Ness Monster 3,533]

The game is simply becoming more international. Giannis 2x MVP, Jokic, Luka Doncic etc. Think I like the most about the Europeans is they are for the most part loyal.

Americans fail once or twice, create Twitter burner accounts and cry online, then join superteams.

 

[Loch Ness Monster 3,533]

Lebron is a 4x champ and still crying every week on Twitter about this season not being fair due to rest.

KD goes at Twitter trolls with 10 followers every day.

Even if they are both right its lame.

[406W30th 1,111]

Honestly did not expect a "but they're not American" argument but here we are.

 

[Patrick Bateman 3,918]

28 minutes ago, 406W30th said:

Honestly did not expect a "but they're not American" argument but here we are.

 

It's germane to the conversation though..... and while maybe a tad distasteful, it's honest.  A little underlying xenophobia is obviously more relevant to some than others in this conversation.  

A baller is a baller... that's all I'll say.  

[d2o 1,602]

1 minute ago, Patrick Bateman said:

It's germane to the conversation though..... and while maybe a tad distasteful, it's honest.  A little underlying xenophobia is obviously more relevant to some than others in this conversation.  

A baller is a baller... that's all I'll say.  

100%

[aggie08 21,505]

9 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

It's germane to the conversation though..... and while maybe a tad distasteful, it's honest.  A little underlying xenophobia is obviously more relevant to some than others in this conversation.  

A baller is a baller... that's all I'll say.  

Meh, I think it's just human nature, not necessarily xenophobic. If someone makes it big from your hometown, you're naturally going to be a bigger fan of theirs than an equivalent player from Delaware. Or a bigger fan of a dude that made it from a well-known college than someone who played overseas. It doesn't mean that you resent the international guys...they just don't get Americans rushing to their TV as readily.

In fact, they're often much harder to hate, so you don't get the polarizing effect on the ratings that you would get from people rooting against the Warriors, LeBron, KD, etc.

 

[Patrick Bateman 3,918]

1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

Meh, I think it's just human nature, not necessarily xenophobic. If someone makes it big from your hometown, you're naturally going to be a bigger fan of theirs than an equivalent player from Delaware. Or a bigger fan of a dude that made it from a well-known college than someone who played overseas. It doesn't mean that you resent the international guys...they just don't get Americans rushing to their TV as readily.

In fact, they're often much harder to hate, so you don't get the polarizing effect on the ratings that you would get from people rooting against the Warriors, LeBron, KD, etc.

 

That may be true.... although this isn't a country or regional competition like the Olympics or World Championships, so "nationalism" isn't really the main driver here.  And because of current NBA draft rules, most fans learn about these players at about the same time aside from a few rare exceptions, right around 16-19 years old.  So yea, guy went to your HS, okay, I think most folks can understand some weird sense of loyalty, but this isn't the case with most of these guys.  

I think the illuminating part to me is where motivations lie for consumers.  Maybe it's markets, maybe it's the type of play, maybe it's the cult of personalities, it's all interesting to me.  I will say this, beyond some of the international players, I'm not seeing a lot of great or foundational young American stars other than Zion, maybe Trae and perhaps Tatum under 25.  We're definitely in a transition phase in the NBA.

[shadow_operative 15,932]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

It's germane to the conversation though..... and while maybe a tad distasteful, it's honest.  A little underlying xenophobia is obviously more relevant to some than others in this conversation.  

A baller is a baller... that's all I'll say.  

it's a fair point. the top American stars are all bigger draws than their foreign counterparts. Bron, KD, Steph, etc, are bigger draws than Giannis, Luka, Jokic, or Embiid. i was reading blurbs written by LeBron in Slam Magazine back in 2001; KD became America's Sweetheart in 2007; Steph had his coming out party during March Madness and then proceeded to become the greatest shooter ever. and besides our history with these guys, they're around us more, via advertising, promotion, marketing, etc. it's not even a little bit xenophobic for 9.5/10 people. we just know them/care about them more.

case in point: anyone who peruses IG, twitter, reddit, etc will be well aware that A TON of nba fans have zero respect for Jokic and don't think much of him at all. it's not because he sucks; it's not because they're all just morons who can't recognize a generational talent when they see one; it's because he's a serbian dude who plays in Denver (never on TV) and has zero name/face recognition in this country. scores of nba fans aren't even familiar with him aside from what they see on Sportscenter or the TNT half time show. that's just the way it is. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by shadow_operative

[shadow_operative 15,932]

also, let's keep this on track: during this discussion, the one post with the most post rep has an author who states that he can't imagine how any nba fan could not be interested in these nba finals. that post might have the most pos rep of this discussion, but that doesn't mean that it isn't the most absurd post of this discussion- which it is.

seriously- you're telling me that all of y'all who are so upset right now truly can't even imagine why some of us (and literally millions of other nba fans around the country) haven't been interested in these NBA finals? for real? lack of stars, lack of big market teams, none of the games have been good, all of the most popular players and teams are injured/at home, and y'all seriously claim you "can't imagine" why anyone would be less interested in these finals than LAL vs Brooklyn? just stop it. you can convince yourselves that we're over here being haters all you want, but that is a ridiculous take, and your reactions to our disinterest are equally ridiculous.

Edited July 13, 2021 by shadow_operative

[shadow_operative 15,932]

According to ProgramInsider.com, the Bucks beating the Suns in game three of the NBA Finals averaged 6.34 million viewers on ABC in the early data.

you insult me (and ztejas); you tell us we're shitty fans for not being interested; you make things personal; you claim you "can't imagine" how any real nba fan could be disinterested in these finals; and then you sit around circle jerking yourselves about what superior fans you all are, shaking your heads at us like *we're* the ones who are wrong and/or out of line here. yeah, i'm gonna go back to norm for this one:

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by shadow_operative

[UTDD 362]

I'd be curious how traditional ratings fare over the next ten years in general.  I have no doubt interest is down this year without the biggest stars/teams, but I also wonder how well the ratings are measuring very real shifts in viewership with the very younger set and how it's likely moving more away from traditional TV ratings over time.  (I don't have an answer, but I'm curious about this maybe they are measuring streaming somehow better than I realize)  Every NBA fan I know (admittedly only about a dozen or so but I think it's kind of representative for a not insignificant number of people) under 20 has basically for the most part never - or barely have ever - watched an NBA game on television.  They stream everything, and a lot of them don't even bother to watch the game live but just avoid the score and then wait for YT highlight videos so they can watch it in ten minutes versus two hours plus.  They know to wait about 3+ hours or so from tip off to be kind of close to having those videos available.  

[406W30th 1,111]

51 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

According to ProgramInsider.com, the Bucks beating the Suns in game three of the NBA Finals averaged 6.34 million viewers on ABC in the early data.

you insult me (and ztejas); you tell us we're shitty fans for not being interested; you make things personal; you claim you "can't imagine" how any real nba fan could be disinterested in these finals; and then you sit around circle jerking yourselves about what superior fans you all are, shaking your heads at us like *we're* the ones who are wrong and/or out of line here. yeah, i'm gonna go back to norm for this one:

 

 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

at least i'm mad because other people are being combative and insulting towards me, and not because someone doesn't like my tv show as much as i do. 

 

[Js1 85,441]

Neither thread makes you look like a sane person, bro. 

[Loch Ness Monster 3,533]

Personally I don't care if someone only tunes in to watch the American superstars like LeBron or KD. Watch what you want.

Not an NBA owner and the league isn't going to collapse any time soon. 

[Brothahorn 10,087]

When the attendance gets low or there aren't 5 figure crowds in the Deer stand, the NBA is going to worry about TV ratings too much.

I didn't start watching until the 2nd half, because of a Xbox fishing tourney. But I recorded it and still watched. Not sure how recordings are calculated but I actually prefer that. I get to avoid the same lame ass commercials, the annoying studio shit and bad interviews. People just have more entertainment options.

[shadow_operative 15,932]

1 minute ago, Brothahorn said:

When the attendance gets low or there aren't 5 figure crowds in the Deer stand, the NBA is going to worry about TV ratings too much.

I didn't start watching until the 2nd half, because of a Xbox fishing tourney. But I recorded it and still watched. Not sure how recordings are calculated but I actually prefer that. I get to avoid the same lame ass commercials, the annoying studio shit and bad interviews. People just have more entertainment options.

this is how i generally watch sports now, at least games that i'm not too heavily invested in. get it on the dvr so i can ffwd commercials, half times, and sideline reporting. that said, when i'm intermittently checking the box score and the game never even seems interesting, i'll often just skip watching it altogether, which is what has happened for me with this series. 

[Message Board User 12,395]

3 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

because of a Xbox fishing tourney.

Well don't leave us in suspense...who won?

[Brothahorn 10,087]

Well don't leave us in suspense...who won?

It's not about winning and losing. It's about spending time with family and friends. And teaching my son proper sportsmanship.

That's the bullshit I said as I somehow came in 8 out of 8.

[LTtxfan 49,302]

HaHaHaHa  😂😂😂

 

[aggie08 21,505]

9 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

That may be true.... although this isn't a country or regional competition like the Olympics or World Championships, so "nationalism" isn't really the main driver here.  And because of current NBA draft rules, most fans learn about these players at about the same time aside from a few rare exceptions, right around 16-19 years old.  So yea, guy went to your HS, okay, I think most folks can understand some weird sense of loyalty, but this isn't the case with most of these guys.  

I think the illuminating part to me is where motivations lie for consumers.  Maybe it's markets, maybe it's the type of play, maybe it's the cult of personalities, it's all interesting to me.  I will say this, beyond some of the international players, I'm not seeing a lot of great or foundational young American stars other than Zion, maybe Trae and perhaps Tatum under 25.  We're definitely in a transition phase in the NBA.

How much more popular do you think soccer, tennis, hockey, and F1 would be if we had American Messi's, Nadal's, Gretzky's, and Hamilton's? It's just easier to "relate" to guys whose back stories involve cities that we've heard of and names we can pronounce. Giannis's story is awesome; it will never resonate with me as strongly as the scrawny son of an ex-NBA player who overcame spaghetti ankles to make a deep March run with Davidson and ultimately become the best shooter who ever lived. Luka is a prodigy; nothing will compare to LeBron being anointed the future of the NBA at 15, then exceeding that hype. You know first hand as a Spurs' fan: it's hard to get the attention and coverage that you deserve when you're not 1) Marketable,  and 2) American. The international guys are, for the most part, extremely likeable, but it's harder to have the intense fandom for them (and, conversely, the backlash of people who will tune in to root against them). Of course, there are plenty who just don't like when "foreigners dominate 'our' sports," but I can't imagine that makes up much of the NBA demographic.

Your second paragraph is spot on. It's going to be interesting. Right now, there's no clear cut "next guy" once LeBron, KD, and Steph age out. And certainly not an American one. No Kareem, Magic, or Bird. Even when MJ retried, we had the Shaq/Kobe Lakers to bridge the gap until LeBron became the heir apparent.

Edited July 14, 2021 by aggie08

[shadow_operative 15,932]

42 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

HaHaHaHa  😂😂😂

 

my dad watched the Euro final and he said it's the first time he's ever sat down to watch a soccer match. soccer is definitely on the ascendancy.

[Mole 4,333]

2 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

this is how i generally watch sports now, at least games that i'm not too heavily invested in. get it on the dvr so i can ffwd commercials, half times, and sideline reporting. that said, when i'm intermittently checking the box score and the game never even seems interesting, i'll often just skip watching it altogether, which is what has happened for me with this series. 

I did this once: for the Gideon Tech game. I didn't check the live score and just sped through the breaks. I caught up right around the last Texas drive where we didn't burn enough clock. I nearly lost my mind watching the game and I think I might be partially responsible. Never again.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5,400]

2 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

HaHaHaHa  😂😂😂

 

In all fairness, that game was really good. I've always thought a shootout is the most exciting moment in all of sports. 

[HookEm 2,467]

Needing a top-10 American on the team to be interested is dumb. How many top-10 Americans did the Spurs have on their roster?  How about Dallas with Dirk? How about the Rockets with Olajuwon? How about the Detroit teams of the early 2000s?   
 

Most of those “top 10” American players are old af.  Are we sure Harden is better than Chris Paul RIGHT NOW? I’m not. Harden is fat. And injured. And he probably will be next year as well. Chris Paul is motivated to get his ring. Harden is motivated to party.

[Patrick Bateman 3,918]

3 hours ago, aggie08 said:

How much more popular do you think soccer, tennis, hockey, and F1 would be if we had American Messi's, Nadal's, Gretzky's, and Hamilton's? It's just easier to "relate" to guys whose back stories involve cities that we've heard of and names we can pronounce. Giannis's story is awesome; it will never resonate with me as strongly as the scrawny son of an ex-NBA player who overcame spaghetti ankles to make a deep March run with Davidson and ultimately become the best shooter who ever lived. Luka is a prodigy; nothing will compare to LeBron being anointed the future of the NBA at 15, then exceeding that hype. You know first hand as a Spurs' fan: it's hard to get the attention and coverage that you deserve when you're not 1) Marketable,  and 2) American. The international guys are, for the most part, extremely likeable, but it's harder to have the intense fandom for them (and, conversely, the backlash of people who will tune in to root against them). Of course, there are plenty who just don't like when "foreigners dominate 'our' sports," but I can't imagine that makes up much of the NBA demographic.

Your second paragraph is spot on. It's going to be interesting. Right now, there's no clear cut "next guy" once LeBron, KD, and Steph age out. And certainly not an American one. No Kareem, Magic, or Bird. Even when MJ retried, we had the Shaq/Kobe Lakers to bridge the gap until LeBron became the heir apparent.

I'm not sure because a large amount of those sports are played abroad.  We're talking about a sport cultivated and played in America whereby a player will spending 8-9 months in.  That's not case with any of your listed examples, as well as some of them are individual sports which is a whole different ball of wax.  And the difference between nationalism and xenophobic is not a large a leap as you seem to be implying (look at Stephen A Smith today).  Additionally, I think you have a little foundation bias with Steph.  If Steph played in Orlando and Giannis in the Bay, you'd be a huge Giannis fan and his story would "resonate" much more.  You'd probably still know Curry, but you wouldn't care about him all that much.  As far as your last sentence in the first paragraph...... I'll just say we'll have to agree to disagree.  I think that opinion is much more prevalent than you apparently do.  

I think the NBA is about to really become global where in a decade or maybe a little more, half the top 20 players will probably be foreign, and that's something fans will have to navigate.  If they leave, I think that's okay for the NBA because for every fan that leaves them in America, they're picking up 2 in other countries.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,550]

8 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I think the NBA is about to really become global where in a decade or maybe a little more, half the top 20 players will probably be foreign, and that's something fans will have to navigate.  If they leave, I think that's okay for the NBA because for every fan that leaves them in America, they're picking up 2 in other countries.

For sure it's players are going to become increasingly global. It's already global when it comes to it's viewership. Bateman is spot on, but there are some folks missing the forest for the trees here. Cite the Nielson ratings all you want.  If this article is to be believed, they are irrelevant.  The league's viewership is also skewing young and absolutely drums the other major sports in its social media following. At this rate, it's going to be bigger than the NFL.

https://sports.yahoo.com/you-dont-really-have-to-care-about-nba-television-ratings-180944196.html

Quote

Ratings are only a fraction of the NBA's audience
Armchair TV ratings experts often cast aside the nuances of an inherently flawed metric that is increasingly under fire (i.e., the exclusion of regional network simulcasts, and Nielsen only began including out-of-home viewership — an expected double-digit numbers increase — in October, when sports bars were mired in a pandemic), they also ignore the fact that TV ratings account for a fraction of the NBA's media consumption. 

The NBA reaches a billion people in more than 215 countries across the world, and roughly three quarters of its viewers are outside the U.S., boosted by the popularity of Antetokounmpo, Embiid, Nikola Jokic, Luka Doncic, four of the top six vote-getters in the MVP race. Global viewers on League Pass for the playoffs are up 18% from last year and 24% from 2019, per the NBA. None of them are included in Nielsen ratings.

Neither is the majority of the NBA's 56 million Instagram followers, an audience that generated 6.55 billion views and counts about twice the following of the NFL, NHL and MLB combined. The league is approaching 9 billion lifetime views on YouTube — again, almost as many as the three other major American sports leagues combined. Nearly 70% of the NBA's social media followers are outside the U.S.

So 3/4 of the league's viewers are outside of the US? I don't think the NBA cares that much that you aren't watching a finals involving two of the league's smallest markets and none of its most marketable stars, in a pushed back schedule during the time of year when US TV viewership in general is at its annual low point, coming off a fractured and bizarre covid impacted season when a huge number of injuries to its stars have diminished the perceived value of the championship. Really? We are supposed to be surprised that the numbers are bad?

Maybe I've lost sight of what the actual argument is, here. Is it that people aren't watching because of those got damned commie fegh Euro foreigners are taking over our 'Merican sport? If Manu Ginobili had played for the Knicks and won a title there, he would be considered a God in New York. If Dirk Nowitzki had won a ring for the Lakers, same thing there. As international as the league has become, the major market teams, for whatever reason, have lacked international stars, notwithstanding Porzingis (elevated to unicorn status before ever accomplishing shit) and.... uh.... Sasha Medvedenko? Robert Sacre?

Again, I'm watching the shit out of these finals because I like basketball, have zero interest in baseball, and football doesn't start for another six weeks. What the fuck else am I going to do? Talk to my wife? I do wish the games were more competitive. That's really my only complaint about this series. 

[aggie08 21,505]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

What the fuck else am I going to do? Talk to my wife?

Oh god no. Don't even joke about that.

[Kermit 3,157]

Wait, you guys talk to your wives?

[Loch Ness Monster 3,533]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

As international as the league has become, the major market teams, for whatever reason, have lacked international stars, notwithstanding Porzingis (elevated to unicorn status before ever accomplishing shit) and.... uh.... Sasha Medvedenko? Robert Sacre?

Haven't been too many Euro superstars so far that care about making the most money possible off the court yet. Sure it will happen at some point.

A ton of American guys like Lebron, KD, Shaq ring chase and seek attention, fame, and money. Zion has been in NO two years and his family is already saying he's leaving NO at some point for a major market.

[aggie08 21,505]

11 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

As far as your last sentence in the first paragraph...... I'll just say we'll have to agree to disagree.  I think that opinion is much more prevalent than you apparently do.

After the last few years, I'm certainly not got to debate with you there. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part that 90% of the NBA demographic is "above" that.

It doesn't bother me at all that the NBA is becoming more global, but losing more of of the casual NBA fans goes with the territory. If you ask someone from the D.R. who their favorite baseball player is, they probably aren't going to say Mike Trout. It is what it is.

Dirk is one of my favorite players, but it probably took me longer than it should have to really appreciate him.

Edited July 14, 2021 by aggie08

[406W30th 1,111]

Not sure where these numbers are coming from (i.e. North America, globally, etc) but thought this was interesting, in light of the poor ratings narrative around this Finals series:

Either all the Suns/Bucks fans have been buying Finals merch or they're actually popular teams?

 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

40 minutes ago, 406W30th said:

Not sure where these numbers are coming from (i.e. North America, globally, etc) but thought this was interesting, in light of the poor ratings narrative around this Finals series:

Either all the Suns/Bucks fans have been buying Finals merch or they're actually popular teams?

 

 

Results are based on NBAStore.com sales from March 11 through July 13.

 

...while Phoenix Suns’ Devin Booker (No. 6) also earned his highest jersey ranking and 12 spots ahead of where he finished in March. On the team merchandise list, the Suns (No. 3) climbed 16 spots ahead of where the team finished at the first half of the season and the Bucks (No. 4) finished 6 spots above where the team ranked in March.

Edited July 14, 2021 by shadow_operative

[Brothahorn 10,087]

Wait, you guys talk to your wives?

If 'go to the kitchen and make me a sausage sandwich' is considered talking, then yes.

[aggie08 21,505]

1 hour ago, Brothahorn said:

8 hours ago, Kermit said:

Wait, you guys talk to your wives?

If 'go to the kitchen and make me a sausage sandwich' is considered talking, then yes.

Nice of you to cook for your wife.

[Brothahorn 10,087]

Nice of you to cook for your wife.

Hey if she has to open her mouth to eat, I can always stick something else in.

[threesheets 1,673]

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,817]

Brook Lopez might be the worst shooter to ever receive the green light to shoot from deep.

[ztejas 43,503]

4 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

 

Results are based on NBAStore.com sales from March 11 through July 13.

 

...while Phoenix Suns’ Devin Booker (No. 6) also earned his highest jersey ranking and 12 spots ahead of where he finished in March. On the team merchandise list, the Suns (No. 3) climbed 16 spots ahead of where the team finished at the first half of the season and the Bucks (No. 4) finished 6 spots above where the team ranked in March.

Are you telling me playing in the Finals increases merch sales? 

[aggie08 21,505]

4 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Brook Lopez might be the worst shooter to ever receive the green light to shoot from deep.

It seems that you have misspelled 'Brodie.'

[ztejas 43,503]

This is such dogshit basketball. Please keep crying about people not watching this series. And don't worry... I'm tuning in because it's a pivotal game 4 of the Finals... but write a letter to Harry hardwalk about no one watching.

[Brothahorn 10,087]

Brook Lopez might be the worst shooter to ever receive the green light to shoot from deep.

And still better than the 2x MVP, who wants to be LeBron.

[Brothahorn 10,087]

This is such dogshit basketball. Please keep crying about people not watching this series. And don't worry... I'm tuning in because it's a pivotal game 4 of the Finals... but write a letter to Harry hardwalk about no one watching.

But you're watching..that all that matters.

Hate the game, not the players.

I'm watching Lakefront Bargain Hunt and grilling steaks. I will tune in sometime in the 2nd quarter.

[shadow_operative 15,932]

just tuned in, here's the first three plays i've seen:

1)Brook Lopez passed the ball to some guys on the Milwaukee bench

2)Phoenix went and did the same thing

3)Lopez missed a bunny 

both teams are in the low 40's with 3:28 left in the 1H. not off to a great start thus far.

[ztejas 43,503]

How does Monty not challenge that horseshit on Jrue? God that's awful.

[ztejas 43,503]

Booker is single handedly making this game watchable 

[Kermit 3,157]

5 minutes ago, ztejas said:

How does Monty not challenge that horseshit on Jrue? God that's awful.

The one where Booker had hold of his arm?