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2021 NBA Playoffs

Machinator

By Machinator
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d2o

d2o 1602

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5 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

If I was an NBA GM and you offered Russ to me for a conditional second round pick I wouldn’t make the trade.  The only other “star” player I would’ve said that about is Carmelo during his time in NYC/OKC.  It’s a combo of his salary and selfishness.

Edited:  John Wall also makes the list because of injuries, which is oddly who Russ was traded for.

This is silly but do your thing man.

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21469

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Just now, Sbbruin said:

And that is why you aren’t an NBA GM.

I’ll amend my statement.  If I was the GM of a small market team, who needed to put some butts in seats, I would take Russ.  If I was looking to build a winning team, I’m not sacrificing $35M in cap space for the statistics gathering machine.

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18550

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3 minutes ago, d2o said:

Precisely this.    SA and TOR both had teams with leaders everywhere.   He was just allowed to do what he does best, score and be a mute.   He wanted to go to the Clips but they have no one.   An asshole like Pat Beverly is their de facto leader.   Add in the special treatment Kawhi asked for and got its no wonder they have no cohension.

They also brought in Rondo, but you can't add somebody at the trade deadline and expect him to lead your team. The Clippers are rudderless. Beyond their lack of player leadership, they don't have much of an identity or plan on the court.  I think Ty Lue is a decent coach, but they shitcanned Doc after last year too so maybe it isn't a coaching thing? 

Also, as much as I dislike the Mavs, Doncic is a fucking savant. He was absolutely dissecting the Clippers. I was on his bandwagon before he got drafted after watching a highlight film of his where somebody just ran clip after clip of him playing pick and roll. And he made the right decision every fucking time. He's probably the smartest basketball player I've seen since Magic and he's only 22. And he's a much better shooter than Magic ever dreamed about. It's fucking ridiculous.  He's that good. In that fourth quarter, he was hunting down Patrick Beverly, who is generally recognized as one of the better defenders in the league, but he's way too small to cover Luka. If they switched, Luka just abused him. If they doubled, he made the right play every time and found open looks for Porzingis or Hardaway. He just picked them apart time after time. Nothing the Clippers did worked. They have no answers. And the best part is how much shit he is talking to Beverly, one of the yappiest most annoying and aggravating players in the league. He seems to relish in punishing him and then talking shit. It's fantastic.

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HookEm

HookEm 2467

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I get the hate for Kawhi, but he is a 2-time Finals MVP and 2-time Defensive Player of the Year.  In the right environment, I'm not sure I would would trade anyone for him except Durant or Curry.  And that includes LeBron at this stage of his career.

The problem is the Clippers aren't well constructed AT ALL.  They have too many similar pieces and glaring holes at other positions.  They need a point guard terribly.  Beverly and Rondo aren't gonna cut it.  Their 3rd best player is probably Marcus Morris.  That isn't going to get it done in the west.

If I were the Clippers, I would try to trade PG13 for a good point guard. Maybe De'Aaron Fox plus whatever salary necessary to make it work.  I think I might rather even have John Wall than PG13 on this particular team.

Chris Paul will be a free agent next year. Doubt he would want to go back to the Clippers. Mike Conley and Kyle Lowry are both available. Both are better than Rondo as a 1-2 year rental.  Lonzo Ball would be an upgrade.  Even Goran Dragic.

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3918

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26 minutes ago, Drew said:

Can't put the Heat 3 over Dirk/Jet/(insert random 12 year vet that showed up for one game during their Title run)

Of course you can and deservedly so..... The Heatles had 4 straight Conference Championships, that's incredible and actually something none of the other 3 from the example did (for different reasons).  If you're just being an unbashed fan boi.... then okay.

16 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I’d go with Horry over Fisher.  Clutchiness.

Not Mark Madsen?

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aggie08

aggie08 21505

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1 hour ago, HookEm said:

I get the hate for Kawhi, but he is a 2-time Finals MVP and 2-time Defensive Player of the Year.  In the right environment, I'm not sure I would would trade anyone for him except Durant or Curry.  And that includes LeBron at this stage of his career.

While I totally understand the logic, I feel like we've been saying this for at least 6 years.

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TommyGufano

TommyGufano 6021

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1 hour ago, HookEm said:

I get the hate for Kawhi, but he is a 2-time Finals MVP and 2-time Defensive Player of the Year.  In the right environment, I'm not sure I would would trade anyone for him except Durant or Curry.  And that includes LeBron at this stage of his career.

The problem is the Clippers aren't well constructed AT ALL.  They have too many similar pieces and glaring holes at other positions.  They need a point guard terribly.  Beverly and Rondo aren't gonna cut it.  Their 3rd best player is probably Marcus Morris.  That isn't going to get it done in the west.

If I were the Clippers, I would try to trade PG13 for a good point guard. Maybe De'Aaron Fox plus whatever salary necessary to make it work.  I think I might rather even have John Wall than PG13 on this particular team.

Chris Paul will be a free agent next year. Doubt he would want to go back to the Clippers. Mike Conley and Kyle Lowry are both available. Both are better than Rondo as a 1-2 year rental.  Lonzo Ball would be an upgrade.  Even Goran Dragic.

Sorry, but this is a message board where the day following a game the losing team's best player is fully to blame and irrecoverably flawed (... unless if the player in question is your guy). Them's the rules

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19126

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8 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I take Luka, LBJ, KD, Jokic, Beal, Westbrook, Curry, Lillard, Giannis, Joel, Zion, Kyrie and Harden over him. So he’s barely Top 15. 

Beal and Westbrook are silly. 
kyrie has always sucked shit through a straw when trying to carry a team. Leonard is clearly better than those 3. That said, I’m not arguing with the rest of the list at all. I might not agree with one or two but they aren’t “wrong”. 

Edited by Wulaw Horn
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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21469

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1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Beal and Westbrook are silly. 
kyrie has always sucked shut through a straw when trying to carry a team. Leonard is clearly better than those 3. That said, I’m not arguing with the rest of the list at all. I might not agree with one or two but they aren’t “wrong”. 

Beal is questionable, but I don’t know that it rises to the level of being silly.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19126

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5 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

If I was an NBA GM and you offered Russ to me for a conditional second round pick I wouldn’t make the trade.  The only other “star” player I would’ve said that about is Carmelo during his time in NYC/OKC.  It’s a combo of his salary and selfishness.

Edited:  John Wall also makes the list because of injuries, which is oddly who Russ was traded for.

Lots of people are giving you shit but you are right and they are wrong. Most nba GM’s wouldn’t give Russ a 35 million a year contract right now which is all you are essentially saying. 

Edited by Wulaw Horn
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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19126

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2 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Beal is questionable, but I don’t know that it rises to the level of being silly.

I think when you have 30 out of 30 nba GM’s that would take Leonard (if the contracts were the same) that rises to the level of silliness. Not as bad as Westbrook, but nobody paid to do this would take Beal. You’d have arguments for all the rest. 

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21469

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12 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I think when you have 30 out of 30 nba GM’s that would take Leonard (if the contracts were the same) that rises to the level of silliness. Not as bad as Westbrook, but nobody paid to do this would take Beal. You’d have arguments for all the rest. 

I thought there was a bigger age gap between the two.  Lioked it up and it’s only 2 years.  I was thinking more like 5.  That would’ve been the argument.

edited to add:  how the fuck is Leonard only 29 years old?  

Edited by conVINCEd
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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3918

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2 hours ago, HookEm said:

I get the hate for Kawhi, but he is a 2-time Finals MVP and 2-time Defensive Player of the Year.  In the right environment, I'm not sure I would would trade anyone for him except Durant or Curry.  And that includes LeBron at this stage of his career.

The problem is the Clippers aren't well constructed AT ALL.  They have too many similar pieces and glaring holes at other positions.  They need a point guard terribly.  Beverly and Rondo aren't gonna cut it.  Their 3rd best player is probably Marcus Morris.  That isn't going to get it done in the west.

If I were the Clippers, I would try to trade PG13 for a good point guard. Maybe De'Aaron Fox plus whatever salary necessary to make it work.  I think I might rather even have John Wall than PG13 on this particular team.

Chris Paul will be a free agent next year. Doubt he would want to go back to the Clippers. Mike Conley and Kyle Lowry are both available. Both are better than Rondo as a 1-2 year rental.  Lonzo Ball would be an upgrade.  Even Goran Dragic.

Conley may be a good fit if he'll come cheap but the Clippers don't have any cap space and don't have many assets for a trade so a leveraged S&T may make sense or the MLE.  The rest of those suggestions are Ugh.  Dragic?  JFC.  Lonzo wouldn't be an upgrade.  We all like to give Playoff P a hard time because he should be better than this and wilts in the playoffs, but none of those PG options are better than George right now.  John Wall?  That's gotta be a joke, right?

36 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Lots of people are giving you shit but you are right and they are wrong. Most nba GM’s wouldn’t give Russ a 35 million a year contract right now which is all you are essentially saying. 

41m+ with over 91m+ attached the next two years.  It's probably a little hyperbole but not too much.  He's going to be a burden for at least another year and probably 1.5 years.  

 

24 minutes ago, d2o said:

I'd go with Horry cause fuck Derek Fisher.

This is correct.

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dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2724

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5 hours ago, d2o said:

Yep, the reason is AD doesnt like playing center

I don’t get this shit.  He’s a fuckin center, and it really doesn’t matter anymore.  It’s not like 90s where he’s be battling Sabonis, or Shaq or Ewing every day.  Is there a single “center “ in the league that commands the ball in the post and would  wear AD down all game?  Jokic I guess.  So sure play your center against Jokic. 

Edited by dingleberryswitzer
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aggie08

aggie08 21505

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2 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

And anyone saying that over the last 6 years has been wrong.  Very wrong.

No doubt. I'd probably still take the next 3 years of LeBron over the next 6 of Kawhi, and I'm still pretty high on Kawhi. He's just not the dude that's going to singlehandedly lead the Clippers to historical relevance.

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21469

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1 hour ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

I don’t get this shit.  He’s a fuckin center, and it really doesn’t matter anymore.  It’s not like 90s where he’s be battling Sabonis, or Shaq or Ewing every day.  Is there a single “center “ in the league that commands the ball in the post and would  wear AD down all game?  Jokic I guess.  So sure play your center against Jokic. 

Embiid, but it’s a short list.  Just tell the announcer to call him a PF in the pregame introductions and be done with it.

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21154

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2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Lots of people are giving you shit but you are right and they are wrong. Most nba GM’s wouldn’t give Russ a 35 million a year contract right now which is all you are essentially saying. 

I was surprised at the shit he caught on that post.  Nobody is saying Westbrook isn't as valuable as a second rounder.  They're saying you don't fucking pay Westbrook 35M this year or any year in the future.  You wouldn't trade a bag of chips for Westbrook.  You obviously give Hardaway Jr. more money/years then WB at this point in his career. 

The real argument is would you trade a second rounder for WB at the tail end of his OKC career?  I still say no.  I'd have said fuck no to the Angels signing Pujols to that obscene contract too.  I don't know why we all give GM's so much credit in sports.  They're dipshits more often than they are genius...  For every GM who is a genius there's at least 2 who leave you scratching your head. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43499

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Westbrook tonight - 2/10, 6/10 from the FT line - 4 turnovers

I didn't watch but I'm about 99% sure he didn't play a lick of defense, either. 

I could easily name 50 players I'd rather have for the same contract. Let alone for less than whatever ridiculous amount he's still getting. 

Like - just looking at the game in front of me - I'd take Trae Young, John Collins and Julius Randle over him without a doubt. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43499

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1 minute ago, Machinator said:

Knicks gave up a lot of open looks to close but luck is smiling on them today.

Eh. I remember watching game one thinking neither of these teams is going anywhere. It's 2 mediocre playoff teams playing a fun series under a big spotlight. Not like Atlanta has a bunch of ice cold vets that will light you up in the clutch if you leave them open. 

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Machinator

Machinator 32099

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3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Eh. I remember watching game one thinking neither of these teams is going anywhere. It's 2 mediocre playoff teams playing a fun series under a big spotlight. Not like Atlanta has a bunch of ice cold vets that will light you up in the clutch if you leave them open. 

Of course not, just saying it bodes well going forward in this particular series. Those shots will drop in Atlanta.

Edited by Machinator
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