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2021 NBA Playoffs

Machinator

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hobbes2702

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4 minutes ago, TommyGufano said:

I'm saying there was no realistic path to a Dame-led team overcoming Golden State. And I love Dame. But he's a 30 year old who is a 1x 1st-team all NBA player; he's closer to being the 20th best guy of his era than 20th best guy in history.

If you want to say they should have generally had more playoff success and been to more than one conference finals then I'm here for that

I tend to agree with this. If you’re a small guard then you better be steph level of you really want a chance to win. He’s not that level. And I don’t think he’s anywhere close to good enough to say he’s a top 20 talent all time. 

I’m not saying he’s not great, he is, but he’s probably one of the more overrated players of this generation 

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aggie08

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7 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Dame was 17-24 from the field.  Look at that list.  Everyone is over 50% shooting from the field on that list except for one guy......

Who's the imposter!!!

giphy.gif

The less said about that series, the better.

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MNLonghornFUKM

MNLonghornFUKM 8817

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I tend to agree with this. If you’re a small guard then you better be steph level of you really want a chance to win. He’s not that level. And I don’t think he’s anywhere close to good enough to say he’s a top 20 talent all time. 

I’m not saying he’s not great, he is, but he’s probably one of the more overrated players of this generation 

He needs a better sidekick. Not a undersized shooting guard that’ll be earning 30-35 million the next 3 years

34e60da9a0651a13faa797bce2b9cb53.jpg


Him and cj will be 34/35 making 85 million lol. That lillard contract is preposterous.
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Patrick Bateman

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9 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I tend to agree with this. If you’re a small guard then you better be steph level of you really want a chance to win. He’s not that level. And I don’t think he’s anywhere close to good enough to say he’s a top 20 talent all time. 

I’m not saying he’s not great, he is, but he’s probably one of the more overrated players of this generation 

Last 4 years, it's been Dame time or about even overall for the reg season.  Curry at his heights or apex was a better player though.  Even this year, with that huge flurry at the end of the reg season for Steph, it was very close and a case can be made that Lillard had the better season.  Damian is definitely better in one ability -- availability.

However, there is one big difference in legacy and this will surprise folks considering what they just watched.... Steph is a much better playoff basketball player.  In fact, Dame isn't all that great in the playoffs overall.  He has had signature moments and games but overall his numbers fall way down.

 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19076

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2 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


He needs a better sidekick. Not a undersized shooting guard that’ll be earning 30-35 million the next 3 years

34e60da9a0651a13faa797bce2b9cb53.jpg


Him and cj will be 34/35 making 85 million lol. That lillard contract is preposterous.

Yeah- I’m not paying that guy 50 million. It’s impossible to have a title at the end of that rainbow. 
He’s not near as good as Chris Paul historically, and Paul has been to 1 conference title just like Lillard. You just can’t be 6 foot ish and be center point and lead dog on a title team. Thomas is the only guy whose ever done it. 

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hobbes2702

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14 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


He needs a better sidekick. Not a undersized shooting guard that’ll be earning 30-35 million the next 3 years

34e60da9a0651a13faa797bce2b9cb53.jpg


Him and cj will be 34/35 making 85 million lol. That lillard contract is preposterous.

He also just needs to be better. He’s a liability defensively and, despite being a great offensive player, isn’t efficient enough, and doesn’t create for others enough, to carry a team as a small guard. They need a better squad but for sure but frankly I don’t think he could be the best player on a title team.

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Blotto

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46 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

However, there is one big difference in legacy and this will surprise folks considering what they just watched.... Steph is a much better playoff basketball player.  In fact, Dame isn't all that great in the playoffs overall.  He has had signature moments and games but overall his numbers fall way down.

 

If you say so......

Dame career stats - 24.7/4.2/6.6

Dame career playoff stats - 25.2/4.5/6.1

For comparison sakes....

Steph career playoff stats -26.5/5.4/6.3

Kobe Bryant career playoff stats 25.6/5.1/4.7

I'm not saying I would take Dame over either of those players, but the playoff stats for each are pretty similar, and those other guys had a hell of a lot more help. 

Edited by Blotto
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hobbes2702

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1 minute ago, Blotto said:

If you say so......

Dame career stats - 24.7/4.2/6.6

Dame career playoff stats - 25.2/4.5/6.1

For comparison sakes....

Steph career playoff stats -26.5/5.4/6.3

Kobe Bryant career playoff stats 25.6/5.1/4.7

I'm not saying I would take Dame over either of those players, but the playoff stats for each are pretty similar, and those other guys had a hell of a lot more help. 

And they are both way better defenders than Dame. Plus Dame shoots barely over 40% in the playoffs but his usage goes way up. He’s just not as elite as people want to pretend he is.

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aggie08

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4 minutes ago, Blotto said:

If you say so......

Dame career stats - 24.7/4.2/6.6

Dame career playoff stats - 25.2/4.5/6.1

For comparison sakes....

Steph career playoff stats -26.5/5.4/6.3

Kobe Bryant career playoff stats 25.6/5.1/4.7

I'm not saying I would take Dame over either of those players, but the playoff stats for each are pretty similar, and those other guys had a hell of a lot more help. 

Dame career stats: 44%/38%/89%

Dame playoff stats: 41%/36%/88% (with his 4 non-first round series being downright bad)

Steph career stats: 48%/43%/91%

Steph playoff stats: 45%/40%/91%

Those are pretty massive differences for dudes with similar raw numbers.

 

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Blotto

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2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Dame career stats: 44%/38%/89%

Dame playoff stats: 41%/36%/88% (with his 4 non-first round series being downright bad)

Steph career stats: 48%/43%/91%

Steph playoff stats: 45%/40%/91%

Those are pretty massive differences for dudes with similar raw numbers.

 

You have a different definition of massive than I do. All I know is that mofo competes harder than anyone in the league not named Westbrook. And when the pressure is at its highest, he usually performs. I'd take him on my team anyday. 

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hobbes2702

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3 minutes ago, Blotto said:

You have a different definition of massive than I do. All I know is that mofo competes harder than anyone in the league not named Westbrook. And when the pressure is at its highest, he usually performs. I'd take him on my team anyday. 

The difference between 45% and 40% is absolutely massive. He’s just not as good as people want to pretend he is

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aggie08

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23 minutes ago, Blotto said:

You have a different definition of massive than I do. All I know is that mofo competes harder than anyone in the league not named Westbrook. And when the pressure is at its highest, he usually performs. I'd take him on my team anyday. 

A 4% difference in shooting percentage is the difference between LeBron James and Paul George (among other things, obviously). Again, pretty massive.

To put it in perspective, Dame has shot <40% from the field in four of his 12 career playoff series. He also has 5 series below 30% from 3. From those 8 combined series, their record is 2-6.

In 22 career playoff series, Steph has never shot under 40% from the field, and has only shot below 34% from 3 once (the series where he lit up Houston for 33 in the 2nd half to punch their ticket to meet Dame in the WCF). His lone truly bad series--the 2016 Finals--he shot 40/40/93.

Dame has had some absolute stinkers, sweeps from New Orleans and a non-KD Golden State in particular.

That said, to your overall point, there's no one else in the league I'd rather have in minute 48. The other 47 minutes, he's a tad overrated...though still amazing and a borderline Top 10 player.

Edited by aggie08
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ztejas

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7 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I know I’m just joining in with all the people that overreact but unless LAL get a 90% AD back this is a wrap.  Even with a healthy AD the Lakers don’t have the offense to win 4 imo.  I’d like to see CP3 win one but this is a cakewalk for the Nets.  I could do without seeing these super teams win every damn time.  Go Bucks or Suns...A healthy Nuggets would have been nice as well...

Assuming Embiid can stay healthy - the best 3 teams are in the East. Going through Milwaukee and Philly is not a cakewalk. The Lakers saving grace was that the West is a bit easier path this year - and that Brooklyn might not make the Finals - so had they handled business I kind of liked their odds because I'm not convinced the Nets are a huge favorite in the East right now. 

However - if the Nets do make the Finals I think that's a wrap. But were just getting started - I wouldn't be shocked if we got something super interesting like Clippers/Sixers or Jazz/Bucks in the Finals - so there is hope yet for fans like you. 

The Lakers are fuckin cooked. LeBron looks like he wants to retire. I think Portland is done, too. This was the one to steal. Lillard can't give you 55 every night. 

Mavs/Clippers is still intriguing. I expect that to go 7.

I do probably like Brooklyn over MIL in 6 and assuming Philly can stay healthy the real fun starts after they dust Atlanta. 

The West Semis should be a lot of fun too. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19076

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6 hours ago, Blotto said:

You have a different definition of massive than I do. All I know is that mofo competes harder than anyone in the league not named Westbrook. And when the pressure is at its highest, he usually performs. I'd take him on my team anyday. 

He’s 6 foot tall. He has to be a try hard. Basketball is really hard when you are 6 foot. He needs to make about 30 million and play with Joel Embiid or someone like that. 
Whoever said he’s borderline top 10 had it correct. Whoever said he can’t win a title as the #1 option had it correct. 
here’s the list of Guys I’m for sure, without a doubt, picking before him if I want to try to win a title:

giannis, Leonard, LBJ, Embiid, Durant, Harden, Joker, Luka. Theres no doubt about any of those guys. 
 

I’d take booker bc of the contract (allows me to fill in elsewhere), Tatum, Butler bc of the size and versatility, Kyrie bc he’s friends with KD and Harden and convinced them to come to my team, and a couple other guys. 
 

if I was someone like the Rockets or Pistons GM I wouldn’t trade a conditional second for him. I’m only trading for him if I’m absolutely convinced he’s my final piece or if I’m shedding bad money. If I’m Philly I’d trade Ben Simmons and something else interesting for him to pair with Embiid. If I’m Milwaukee I’d want him badly. If I’m the lakers I’d trade AD for him, probably. If I’m the clippers playoff P. 

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aggie08

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Awesome. Let the bidding wars begin for a dude who's abandoning the mess that he created because they're stuck in limbo with no chance to win a title anytime soon, despite having every draft capital advantage imaginable.

...but his name is Danny Ainge, so he'll probably get a new job pretty quick.

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ztejas

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Damn - so not only did Lillard break the 3p record (which was never standing for long anyway so whatever) he tied the NBA record for points + points assisted in a playoff game with 80.

That's far more impressive and a little nutty. 

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d2o

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8 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

And they are both way better defenders than Dame. Plus Dame shoots barely over 40% in the playoffs but his usage goes way up. He’s just not as elite as people want to pretend he is.

Steph is in NO WAY a better defender than Dame.   Not saying Dame is great just that Steph is terrible!

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ztejas

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5 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Charlie Hustle 

 

He's given up. He gave up in game 4. He barely tried last night then left the court early. We've seen this before. This Suns team is going to whip their ass again in game 6. 

I really wonder if he's thinking about hanging it up. Maybe he's just fucking exhausted at this point. No one would blame him. If he wants to keep going this Lakers team is going to undergo a huge overhaul. 

The only thing left he could prove is catching Kareem. 

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d2o

d2o 1602

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23 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Awesome. Let the bidding wars begin for a dude who's abandoning the mess that he created because they're stuck in limbo with no chance to win a title anytime soon, despite having every draft capital advantage imaginable.

...but his name is Danny Ainge, so he'll probably get a new job pretty quick.

I have to think that other teams have seen him fuck that "boston" he had and wont be quick to hire him but then again most of these teams are fucking stupid.

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d2o

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7 minutes ago, ztejas said:

He's given up. He gave up in game 4. He barely tried last night then left the court early. We've seen this before. This Suns team is going to whip their ass again in game 6. 

I really wonder if he's thinking about hanging it up. Maybe he's just fucking exhausted at this point. No one would blame him. If he wants to keep going this Lakers team is going to undergo a huge overhaul. 

The only thing left he could prove is catching Kareem. 

Crazy cause at the start of the season all we heard wasas how stacked they were

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ztejas

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On 5/11/2021 at 9:12 PM, ztejas said:

So... one of them is definitely getting fired. They are a fucking trainwreck and have been most of this season. Just trying to figure out which one if not both. Maybe because I'm trying to figure out if their suckage has more to do with awful personnel management or dreadful underacheivement. 

Maybe Stevens jumps ship and wants to go coach somewhere else? 

 

On 5/11/2021 at 10:12 PM, ztejas said:

Based on what? Maybe his contract extension? Boston is ruthless. They don't give a fuck. Maybe Ainge gets a longer leash because he's a Celtic but this experiment is clearly a failure. Tatum will never be a #1 on a title team. Stevens is not elevating these guys. You think Boston fans are cool seeing this team below .500?

I'm counting this as Ainge getting fired. And while Stevens isn't getting fired they are replacing both positions. Like I said... Boston is different. They don't stand for that shit. 

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d2o

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1 minute ago, ztejas said:

 

 

I'm counting this as Ainge getting fired. And while Stevens isn't getting fired they are replacing both positions. Like I said... Boston is different. They don't stand for that shit. 

Not only is Stevens not getting fired he is getting a promotion.   No way they would force Ainge out just to promote Stevens.    Dont pat yourself on the back

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aggie08

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15 minutes ago, d2o said:

Steph is in NO WAY a better defender than Dame.   Not saying Dame is great just that Steph is terrible!

He's better than Dame. Like you allude to, it's splitting hairs between bad and worse, but Steph is significant longer. They're both equally abysmal on the ball against other top point guards, but Steph has at least proven that he can be a capable and active team defender, making smart rotations, fighting through screens, and contesting. He held his own just fine this year on a top 5 defense without Klay's protection (not that he really contributes to their high defensive rankings since the Mark Jackson era, but he doesn't actively hurt it).

Dame is pretty notorious for dying on screens. Portland is consistently among the very worst defensive teams in the league, and always will be with a Dame/CJ backcourt...most of that is lack of size, some of that is them really, really sucking at it.

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ztejas

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9 minutes ago, d2o said:

No way they would force Ainge out just to promote Stevens. 

So you think Ainge told them "Hey I'm not coming back" and then overnight they tell Stevens "Hey you're actually going to be our president of ops now"?

Like the tweet above you said, this was in the works for awhile. Meaning Ainge was gone. They can phrase it however they want to make him look better or protect his legacy as a Celtic. Just like Mack wasn't "fired" he "resigned".

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