Critical Race Theory policy in hiring at UT

[Pancho 45492]

39 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

CRT is interesting because it is so polarizing and it means something different to most people I ask (as shown by this thread, too). I find it to be tacky to talk about things like, specifically CRT, and generally politics, among friends and family and in public and at parties. I think you should just do what you think is right and what you think is best.

FWIW, I think of CRT like Johnny Sack does, and so CRT is probably about 50% of why we decided against public schools for a private education. We just didn't want any part of it and think our children's energy, resources and time is better spent in different ways. If you want to engage with it and think it's great, great. More power to you, as we used to say.

I said this earlier, but I feel like there is a healthy medium between "Pale, Yale and Male" and Critical Race Theory. We are trying to find the best landing place for our kids. Go and do likewise, gents. The money is out there. You pick it up, it's yours. You don't? I have no sympathy.

CRT isn’t taught in public elementary middle, or high schools so it’s unclear why something like CRT was part of the decision to put your kids in a private school.  It looks like you wear searching for a reason to confirm your choice and CRT was the first thing you saw, no matter how wrong you were. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Pancho said:

CRT isn’t taught in public elementary middle, or high schools so it’s unclear why something like CRT was part of the decision to put your kids in a private school.  It looks like you wear searching for a reason to confirm your choice and CRT was the first thing you saw, no matter how wrong you were. 

Like anyone could know that

[DonkeyCigars 143]

6 minutes ago, Pancho said:

CRT isn’t taught in public elementary middle, or high schools so it’s unclear why something like CRT was part of the decision to put your kids in a private school.  It looks like you wear searching for a reason to confirm your choice and CRT was the first thing you saw, no matter how wrong you were. 

Are you sure that is accurate? Can you cite something here?

I ask because I was told the five tenets of critical race theory can be found in almost every public school in Texas, and teachers are now being required to attend training in these tenets of CRT.

Edit to add: this might be where the whole vague and nebulous definition and application of CRT is muddying the waters?

Edited May 20, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[DonkeyCigars 143]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Like anyone could know that

[Horn of Gabriel 1864]

Critical Race Theory may have started in academic circles but it has grown far beyond that, and is now being used (daresay stretched?) as justification for lots of policies, training, and jobs. CRT advocates might not like it to be pointed out but it is highly reductive (everything, ev-re-thing is about race & any differences in outcomes between races is a result of racism on behalf of whites).  And yes, at its core it is about redistribution and power, just like <gasp> Marxism, but under a new name.

The Courage of our Convictions from the Manhattan Institute

Quote

Critical race theory is an academic discipline, formulated in the 1990s and built on the intellectual framework of identity-based Marxism. Relegated for many years to universities and obscure academic journals, it has increasingly become the default ideology in our public institutions over the past decade. It has been injected into government agencies, public school systems, teacher training programs, and corporate human-resources departments, in the form of diversity-training programs, human-resources modules, public-policy frameworks, and school curricula.

Of course if every difference in outcome is the result of racism, then equality of opportunity is insufficient.  We need equity, which sounds very similar but is very, very different.

Quote

Its supporters deploy a series of euphemisms to describe critical race theory, including “equity,” “social justice,” “diversity and inclusion,” and “culturally responsive teaching.” Critical race theorists, masters of language construction, realize that “neo-Marxism” would be a hard sell. Equity, on the other hand, sounds non-threatening and is easily confused with the American principle of equality. But the distinction is vast and important. Indeed, critical race theorists explicitly reject equality—the principle proclaimed in the Declaration of Independence, defended in the Civil War, and codified into law with the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. To them, equality represents “mere nondiscrimination” and provides “camouflage” for white supremacy, patriarchy, and oppression.

In contrast to equality, equity as defined and promoted by critical race theorists is little more than reformulated Marxism. In the name of equity, UCLA law professor and critical race theorist Cheryl Harris has proposed suspending private property rights, seizing land and wealth, and redistributing them along racial lines. Critical race guru Ibram X. Kendi, who directs the Center for Antiracist Research at Boston University, has proposed the creation of a federal Department of Antiracism. This department would be independent of (i.e., unaccountable to) the elected branches of government, and would have the power to nullify, veto, or abolish any law at any level of government and curtail the speech of political leaders and others deemed insufficiently “antiracist.”

One practical result of the creation of such a department would be the overthrow of capitalism, since, according to Kendi, “In order to truly be antiracist, you also have to truly be anti-capitalist.” In other words, identity is the means; Marxism is the end.

In other words, we need equity of outcomes.  Because, if you're white, anything you have is the result of your racism, any hard work you've put in is a distant second to systemic racism.

DEI is the response to the problem-framework CRT poses, and in practice looks like this:

Quote

What does critical race theory look like in practice? Last year, I authored a series of reports focused on critical race theory in the federal government. The FBI was holding workshops on intersectionality theory. The Department of Homeland Security was telling white employees that they were committing “microinequities” and had been “socialized into oppressor roles.” The Treasury Department held a training session telling staff members that “virtually all white people contribute to racism” and that they must convert “everyone in the federal government” to the ideology of “antiracism.” And the Sandia National Laboratories, which designs America’s nuclear arsenal, sent white male executives to a three-day reeducation camp, where they were told that “white male culture” was analogous to the “KKK,” “white supremacists,” and “mass killings.” The executives were then forced to renounce their “white male privilege” and to write letters of apology to fictitious women and people of color.

This year, I produced another series of reports focused on critical race theory in education. In Cupertino, California, an elementary school forced first-graders to deconstruct their racial and sexual identities and rank themselves according to their “power and privilege.” In Springfield, Missouri, a middle school forced teachers to locate themselves on an “oppression matrix,” based on the idea that straight, white, English-speaking, Christian males are members of the oppressor class and must atone for their privilege and “covert white supremacy.” In Philadelphia, an elementary school forced fifth-graders to celebrate “Black communism” and simulate a Black Power rally to free 1960s radical Angela Davis from prison, where she had once been held on charges of murder. And in Seattle, the school district told white teachers that they are guilty of “spirit murder” against black children and must “bankrupt [their] privilege in acknowledgement of [their] thieved inheritance.”

So CRTs lapdog of DEI are at their core reductively sorting based on race and not individual, and "anti-racism?"  That means active discrimination, just toward whites.  It's not me saying this, it's Ibram X. Kendi, CRT advocate, from his book How to Be an Anti-Racist:

Quote

The defining question is whether the discrimination is creating equity or inequity. If discrimination is creating equity, then it is antiracist. If discrimination is creating inequity, then it is racist. . . . The only remedy to racist discrimination is antiracist discrimination. The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination.

That's pretty informative to me.  Equality of opportunity, bad.  Equity of result, good.  White mean oppressor and BIPOC means victim.  CRT is the diagnosis and DEI the cure.

[Pancho 45492]

5 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Are you sure that is accurate? Can you cite something here?

I ask because I was told the five tenets of critical race theory can be found in almost every public school in Texas, and teachers are now being required to attend training in these tenets of CRT.

Edit to add: this might be where the whole vague and nebulous definition and application of CRT is muddying the waters?

Well, are you sure what you were told is accurate? Do you know what the 5 tenets are?

[DonkeyCigars 143]

2 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Well, are you sure what you were told is accurate? Do you know what the 5 tenets are?

That is why I am asking you to validate your claim that CRT is not taught in public schools in Texas, because I'm open to the possibility of being misinformed and wrong.

[Helobious 9505]

4 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

Critical Race Theory may have started in academic circles but it has grown far beyond that, and is now being used (daresay stretched?) as justification for lots of policies, training, and jobs. CRT advocates might not like it to be pointed out but it is highly reductive (everything, ev-re-thing is about race & any differences in outcomes between races is a result of racism on behalf of whites).  And yes, at its core it is about redistribution and power, just like <gasp> Marxism, but under a new name.

The Courage of our Convictions from the Manhattan Institute

Of course if every difference in outcome is the result of racism, then equality of opportunity is insufficient.  We need equity, which sounds very similar but is very, very different.

In other words, we need equity of outcomes.  Because, if you're white, anything you have is the result of your racism, any hard work you've put in is a distant second to systemic racism.

DEI is the response to the problem-framework CRT poses, and in practice looks like this:

So CRTs lapdog of DEI are at their core reductively sorting based on race and not individual, and "anti-racism?"  That means active discrimination, just toward whites.  It's not me saying this, it's Ibram X. Kendi, CRT advocate, from his book How to Be an Anti-Racist:

That's pretty informative to me.  Equality of opportunity, bad.  Equity of result, good.  White mean oppressor and BIPOC means victim.  CRT is the diagnosis and DEI the cure.

Title is literally “How to fight critical race theory”. Assuredly an unbiased and thoughtful source.

[SmokeyTheBear 5569]

Have we talked about the failed drug war and how that fits within CRT? 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

Five tenets:

1) the centrality and intersectionality of race and racism

2) challenge to the dominant ideology

3) the commitment to social justice

4) the importance of experiential knowledge; and

5) the use of interdisciplinary perspectives.

Most importantly is this though:

Critical Race scholarship is unified by two tenets; 

The first is to understand how a regime of white supremacy and its subordination of people of color have been created and maintained in America, and, in particular, to examine the relationship between that social structure and professed ideals such as "the rule of law" and "equal protection." The second is a desire not merely to understand the vexed bond between law and racial power but to change it." (Crenshaw et al., 1995)

 

 

[Horn of Gabriel 1864]

1 minute ago, Helobious said:

Title is literally “How to fight critical race theory”. Assuredly an unbiased and thoughtful source.

I never said it was unbiased, of course it is; we all are.  What do you disagree with now that you've pointed that out?

[Pancho 45492]

3 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

That is why I am asking you to validate your claim that CRT is not taught in public schools in Texas, because I'm open to the possibility of being misinformed and wrong.

Educators teach to the curriculum they are required to teach to by the state.  There’s no curriculum in elementary, middle, or high school where CRT is discussed in-depth.  Moreover, the heavy, vast majority of elementary, middle, and high school teachers don’t even know what the purpose of CRT is and what it’s applied to.  Now, are there some middle and high school educators who might mention the theory alongside other plights?  Possible, but not probably.  CRT is more of a college educational theory and it’s mostly taught in grad schools for research purposes (although today it might be mentioned in certain undergrad courses depending on your major).  I personally didn’t dive deep into it until my doctoral program. I had never heard of it in undergrad or for my Masters. 

I’m also friends with a number of high school teachers who are Black, Hispanic, and White.  None of them mention it, and a few of them don’t really know what CRT is even though they have grad degrees.

So yea, whoever told you that about Texas teachers and the training on the tenets of CRT is lying to you.  

I would also argue you might be conflating CRT and diversity issues/DEI which is what a lot of people on this thread are doing, and that’s very sad. 

[52-80 19281]

56 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

What's going on in the DT today?

 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

1 minute ago, Pancho said:

Educators teach to the curriculum they are required to teach to by the state.  There’s no curriculum in elementary, middle, or high school where CRT is discussed in-depth.  Moreover, the heavy, vast majority of elementary, middle, and high school teachers don’t even know what the purpose of CRT is and what it’s applied to.  Now, are there some middle and high school educators who might mention the theory alongside other plights?  Possible, but not probably.  CRT is more of a college educational theory and it’s mostly taught in grad schools for research purposes (although today it might be mentioned in certain undergrad courses depending on your major).  I personally didn’t dive deep into it until my doctoral program. I had never heard of it in undergrad or for my Masters. 

I’m also friends with a number of high school teachers who are Black, Hispanic, and White.  None of them mention it, and a few of them don’t really know what CRT is even though they have grad degrees.

So yea, whoever told you that about Texas teachers and the training on the tenets of CRT is lying to you.  

I would also argue you might be conflating CRT and diversity issues/DEI which is what a lot of people on this thread are doing, and that’s very sad. 

Thanks for the response. Let me dig in and see where I got misaligned with respect to CRT being something built into public textbooks, training for teachers etc.

And as someone who works for a living, I'm very familiar with the twin corporate pillars of trendy topics: DEI & Sustainability. I can assure I am not conflating.

[Helobious 9505]

6 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

I never said it was unbiased, of course it is; we all are.  What do you disagree with now that you've pointed that out?

Didn’t read much of it, the sheer amount of hyperbole, emotion, anecdotes, and generalizations made it easy to write off for me. Hard to “disagree” with much of it when it’s mostly just the author’s opinions. Looked a lot like the author just projecting his own opinion & interpratation of it everywhere. I did chuckle at “default ideology of our public institutions” in the opening paragraph. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13548]

I'm open to listening to ideas on how anything can be improved or just changed. Now that doesn't mean that I accept an idea as truth just because my employer says so. I also think that some white people immediately shut down when discussing race because they think they're being called a racist if it's implied racism still exists.

I'm 50 and white. I don't believe I'm racist but I've seen racist comments and questionable actions by coworkers or employers. I doubt I'm the only person that has heard a comment like "you better be careful on hiring him/her (non-white person). You face a lawsuit if their job status goes bad."  That alone may not lead to someone not being hired but you can't tell me that someone doesn't act from that idea. To be clear, it's been a while since I've heard that comment but I distinctly recall it in the 90s.  There must be people that started off behind others because of attitudes like this.

I also recall employers seemingly only hiring white people in sales as they believed some of their clients were racist. This practice allowed the hiring company to feel like they're not racist since they cannot control the world.

 

[Macklemore 2881]

32 minutes ago, Pancho said:

CRT isn’t taught in public elementary middle, or high schools so it’s unclear why something like CRT was part of the decision to put your kids in a private school.  It looks like you wear searching for a reason to confirm your choice and CRT was the first thing you saw, no matter how wrong you were. 

CRT is being taught at the elite private school level. Schools like Dalton in Manhattan. It’s not unreasonable to assume it will filter down to a receptive audience in public school admins and teachers. Catholic and other conservative Christian schools are more immune

[Macklemore 2881]

30 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Title is literally “How to fight critical race theory”. Assuredly an unbiased and thoughtful source.

His other quotations came from an article in the WSJ. I assume you find that to be reputable source, correct?

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

CRT is being taught at the elite private school level. Schools like Dalton in Manhattan. It’s not unreasonable to assume it will filter down to a receptive audience in public school admins and teachers. Catholic and other conservative Christian schools are more immune

It is already at private schools, along with the transgender issues many parents do not want in their private Christian schools.  Even Christian ones in Houston, Texas, maybe outside of Second Baptist. It seeps in through organizations like the NAIS and ISAS, which fully embrace CRT and stuff like the 1619 Project.  Teachers go to training sessions sponsored by these groups and bring it back to the class room.

It's all right here, see their 2019 People of Color Conference (and they have a POCC every year), which my kids' school sends teachers to:

https://pocc.nais.org/PoCC/media/documents/program_archive/2019PoCC_program_FINAL.pdf

White supremacy appears 7 times.  Anti-racist 27 times.

Some excerpts:

Using the theories of critical race, black identity, and black feminism as a conceptual framework, this research explored the role of race/class/gender and parental support as contributing factors to the racial consciousness development of black girls in middle school. An analysis of the narratives of black girls revealed important factors that contributed to the development of a racial consciousness such as the absence of a black faculty advocate, the burden of microaggressions, and the tension to define what it means to be black. Additional findings showed that the participants' mothers emphasized nurturing black identity and friendships to help guide their daughters through critical racial experiences. Findings led to important recommendations to improve the educational experiences of black girls in predominantly white spaces.

Young, Gifted, and Black: Five Under-Fifty Female Writers to Add to Your Literature Curriculum From the bowels of slave ships bound for America to the belly of New Orleans' Hurricane Katrina; from the melt(ed) pot that is London's Kilburn Lane to the Wall(ed) streets of New York City; to spaces real and spaces imagined, this session explores the works of five contemporary authors who've challenged conventional literary wisdom to create some of the most important, most insightful, most empowering literature of our day. Using racial identity development and critical race theory models in small-group and Harkness-style settings, participants will analyze readings and engage in inquiry-based discussions about how varied identities and experiences, as well as competing voices and narratives, impact the teaching of black literature and the black female experience. PRESENTER: Enithie Hunter, The Lawrenceville School (NJ) TRACK: Building Capacity: Skills, Competencies, and Research for Equity, Inclusion, and Social Justice ROOM: WSCC-CC, Chelan 5

A Conversation for Asian and Asian Americans: It's Time We Talked About Intragroup Oppression While people of color work in solidarity to push against the structures of white supremacy, it is no secret that many of us, as people of color, must also address our own internalized racism, intragroup oppression, and colonized mentality. While affinity space t PoCC has served to build Asian American solidarity, it has not been a space to address real oppression within our own community. Join a group of critical race facilitators as we dive into our own taboo conversations within the Asian and Asian American community on colorism, class, religion, body size and shape, education, status, and language. Because of the sensitive nature of this session, we ask that only Asian, Asian American, Pacific Islander, and South Asian participants attend. PRESENTERS: Liza Talusan, LT Coaching and Consulting, LLC; Ricco Siasoco, Chadwick School (CA); Amanda Friedman, Miss Porter's School (CT) TRACK: Racial and Ethnic Identities: Developmental Models, Frameworks, Approaches ROOM: WSCC-CC, Chelan 5

Are You Doing Your Work? Calling in Our Cisgender and Heterosexual PoC Allies Often as people of color we want our white allies to educate themselves and do their own personal work around privilege in order to support equity and inclusion in independent schools. We, as LGBTQ people of color, want the same from our heterosexual and cisgender colleagues of color. In this workshop, we will explore the role of allyship (as a verb) specifically for PoC supporting LGBTQ PoC. We will provide five concrete actions PoC allies can take to support those of us with intersecting, marginalized identities around race, gender, and sexuality. This workshop will include a panel of LGBTQ+ PoC independent school faculty who will provide examples of experiences we've had with supportive allies and some we wish could have gone better. PRESENTERS: Tamisha Williams, LickWilmerding High School (CA); Johanna Aeschliman, Redwood Day School (CA); Corey Baker, Keys School (CA) TRACK: Anti-Racist Teaching, Training, Activism, Allyship

Centering Joy as a Revolutionary Act for Womxn, Femmes, and Non-Binary People of Color Let's explore the pursuit of joy as a tool for subverting narratives that have historically told us who we are, what we're worth, and how to live. This discussion/presentation examines historical and contemporary scholarship for ways womxn of color can leverage a pursuit of joy as an act of liberation and revolution. We'll review the writings of such luminaries as Audre Lorde, adrienne maree brown, Akiba Solomon, and Kenrya

 

 

[Pancho 45492]

38 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Five tenets:

1) the centrality and intersectionality of race and racism

2) challenge to the dominant ideology

3) the commitment to social justice

4) the importance of experiential knowledge; and

5) the use of interdisciplinary perspectives.

Most importantly is this though:

Critical Race scholarship is unified by two tenets; 

The first is to understand how a regime of white supremacy and its subordination of people of color have been created and maintained in America, and, in particular, to examine the relationship between that social structure and professed ideals such as "the rule of law" and "equal protection." The second is a desire not merely to understand the vexed bond between law and racial power but to change it." (Crenshaw et al., 1995)

 

 

Those are the 5 tenets of CRT according to Solorzano & Yosso.  Those are only 2 authors/researchers within CRT and they are not the founding father of CRT.  That is Derrick Bell (and I would argue Delgado) and their Bell’s/Delgado’s tenets are just a bit different.

[Pancho 45492]

22 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

CRT is being taught at the elite private school level. Schools like Dalton in Manhattan. It’s not unreasonable to assume it will filter down to a receptive audience in public school admins and teachers. Catholic and other conservative Christian schools are more immune

I don’t assume shit.  That’s part of the reason those who hate cancelling people are trying to cancel CRT—because they are assuming with no factual data.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13548]

People are not robots. They attend seminars or conferences, and then decide what is and isn't best to apply back in their world.

[washparkhorn 9939]

27 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

And yes, at its core it is about redistribution and power, just like <gasp> Marxism, but under a new name.

At its core, it is a method of working a problem by examining it from all facets, (i.e., what @Pancho has been pointing out repeatedly). It is grounded in the Aristotelian strategy of finding universal truth, or the lack thereof. 

Truth is what humans once strived to learn.

The intersection between the love of truth and the fear of truth is we find ourselves in this thread. 

Fear is the mind killer for all of us. We fear what we don't know.

Derrida sorted it out for me. He would be a good place for the fearful to start. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/derrida/#ElaBasArgWorHos

 

[TwiceHorn 31686]

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Inheritances account for roughly 4 percent of annual household income, much of which goes untaxed by the U.S. government.

That's a super-weird and pretty inaccurate sentence.  An inheritance that comes as a lump sum, directly or by trust, is not taxed unless the estate from whence it came was subject to estate taxation.  Income generated by the lump sum, or thrown off by the trust, is taxed as income.

[Dahobbs 17812]

6 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

His other quotations came from an article in the WSJ. I assume you find that to be reputable source, correct?

No, the opinion/letters section of the WSJ is not a reputable source. It isn't much different from a poster writing something on this board. 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

11 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Those are the 5 tenets of CRT according to Solorzano & Yosso.  Those are only 2 authors/researchers within CRT and they are not the founding father of CRT.  That is Derrick Bell (and I would argue Delgado) and their Bell’s/Delgado’s tenets are just a bit different.

Can you share those tenets?

[TwiceHorn 31686]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

No, the opinion/letters section of the WSJ is not a reputable source. It isn't much different from a poster writing something on this board. 

Yeah just like everything "conservative" has gone to shit in the wake of Trump, WSJ publishes some real dogshit claptrap in its editorial/opinion section.

Way too much Tom Cotton.  That guy's an asshole.

[Macklemore 2881]

5 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I don’t assume shit.  That’s part of the reason those who hate cancelling people are trying to cancel CRT—because they are assuming with no factual data.

It is also objective truth that CRT is no longer just confined to academia and journals and is now peppered into HR departments and the culture as a whole. That is why it is on everyone's radar. It is my belief that the average American has no idea what CRT adherents mean when they say "equity". It is not equality of opportunity which is an American ideal but rather a blunt tool to bring an "anti-racist" outcome. One area where most of us would feel it would be during the college admission process for our kids. Equity in this context means racial quotas in college admissions that reflect the racial composition of this country. In practice, that means Asian-American kids are going to get screwed the hardest followed by the average, suburban white kid. The UC system doing away with the SAT for admissions is one of the means they intend to force equity down people's throats.

[mchookem 16527]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

CRT isn’t taught in public elementary middle, or high schools so it’s unclear why something like CRT was part of the decision to put your kids in a private school.  It looks like you wear searching for a reason to confirm your choice and CRT was the first thing you saw, no matter how wrong you were. 

i mean... didn't they just pass a bill THIS SESSION making sure it's not taught??

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_609a96c8e4b063dccea1a3ef?ncid=engmodushpmg00000003

[Macklemore 2881]

6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

No, the opinion/letters section of the WSJ is not a reputable source. It isn't much different from a poster writing something on this board. 

The WSJ editorial board is not much different than our posts on this message board. Are you fucking serious with this shit? The WSJ is one of the most respected newspapers in the country. They skew conservative like the NYT skews left but both are counted as the most reputable in the industry. My mistake on where the quote was from. It is from the NY Post. I had read something similar in the WSJ.

https://nypost.com/2021/05/06/what-critical-race-theory-is-really-about/

[Macklemore 2881]

9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah just like everything "conservative" has gone to shit in the wake of Trump, WSJ publishes some real dogshit claptrap in its editorial/opinion section.

Way too much Tom Cotton.  That guy's an asshole.

Do you have the same critique for the NYT Opinion section? The NYT has always been liberal - it's Opinion page has become even more so the past 5 years. At least the WSJ has the gumption to publish opinions that wouldn't be popular for most readers - from guys like Rahm Emanuel and modern monetary theory economists.

[Pancho 45492]

1 minute ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Can you share those tenets?

1.) Ordinariness - racism is difficult to address and cure because it's not acknowledged.

2.) Interest Convergence - because racism benefits both elite Whites and working class Whites, large segments of society have little incentive to eradicate it. 

3.) Social Construction - race and races are products of social thought and relations.

4.) Differential Racialization - The "dominant society" racializes different minority groups at different times.

5.) Intersectionality - No person has a single, easily stated, unitary identity.  (Example: A White feminist can be Jewish, a Black activist can be male/female, straight or gay, a Latino can be a Democrat, a Republican, or even Black.)

6.) Storytelling - Because of their different histories and experiences with oppression, a PoC can communicate to Whites the matters and experiences that Whites are unlikely to know.

(Delgado & Stefancic, 2017)

 

 

*This is the framework I used for my dissertation.

[Pancho 45492]

12 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

It is also objective truth that CRT is no longer just confined to academia and journals and is now peppered into HR departments and the culture as a whole. That is why it is on everyone's radar. It is my belief that the average American has no idea what CRT adherents mean when they say "equity". It is not equality of opportunity which is an American ideal but rather a blunt tool to bring an "anti-racist" outcome. One area where most of us would feel it would be during the college admission process for our kids. Equity in this context means racial quotas in college admissions that reflect the racial composition of this country. In practice, that means Asian-American kids are going to get screwed the hardest followed by the average, suburban white kid. The UC system doing away with the SAT for admissions is one of the means they intend to force equity down people's throats.

No, CRT isn't peppered into HR.

I'm not sure why yall are trying to say CRT is the same as DEI initiatives.  They are not. 

[TwiceHorn 31686]

9 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Do you have the same critique for the NYT Opinion section? The NYT has always been liberal - it's Opinion page has become even more so the past 5 years. At least the WSJ has the gumption to publish opinions that wouldn't be popular for most readers - from guys like Rahm Emanuel and modern monetary theory economists.

Frankly, I don't pay too much attention to any kind of editorial journalism, other than Cloak Room screeds.

One exception is that I have always enjoyed the writing in The Atlantic, even going back to my callow days as a Republican.  I read most of it pretty critically though.

Edited May 20, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[pacman 7430]

3 hours ago, Pancho said:

CRT isn't just about History, it's also about applying the theory to current situations.  That's why it's a theory that can be applied to view something through a critical lens whether that happened 100 years ago or 1 minute ago.  It can also be use to hypothesize about future situations.  What it doesn't do is lump all people together as being racist, which is what some people in America want you to believe.  Those folks are a.) lying and b.) confirming they have no idea what CRT actually is.   

And yes, CRT can be applied to White people as well, not just Black, Latino, Middle Eastern, or AAPI.  It's interesting to see so many Whites of a certain background so angered by CRT when the fucking theory can be applied to them as well.

The funniest part (funniest or sad?) is so many people rushing to cancel CRT in K-12 schools (ironic) when this theory is mostly taught in grad classes at the college level. 

Agree. Thought i had deleted that part of the post.

[Dahobbs 17812]

22 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

The WSJ editorial board is not much different than our posts on this message board. Are you fucking serious with this shit? The WSJ is one of the most respected newspapers in the country. They skew conservative like the NYT skews left but both are counted as the most reputable in the industry. My mistake on where the quote was from. It is from the NY Post. I had read something similar in the WSJ.

https://nypost.com/2021/05/06/what-critical-race-theory-is-really-about/

You said his quote was from the WSJ. I searched and the best I could find was a letter to editor that was posted in the WSJ. I didn't find anything at all actually from the editorial board (i.e., written by the editors of the paper). Letters are literally things anyone can write and submit. You're free to submit one yourself and it may get published. The opinion piece you just posted from the New York Post is literally the same article by the same author as the original link. I don't believe it deserves additional credence merely because was also published the New York Post. I'm not sure you understand what an op-ed is, which is essentially a guest writer being allowed to contribute an essay to the paper. An op-ed usually somewhat more formal than a letter to the editor, but certainly doesn't come from the paper itself or purport to represent the views of the editors of paper. Op-eds have to stand on their own merits and the merits of the authors. They don't get to piggyback on the reputations of the paper(s) in which they are published. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Dahobbs

[CDAK 216]

15 minutes ago, Pancho said:

No, CRT isn't peppered into HR.

I'm not sure why yall are trying to say CRT is the same as DEI initiatives.  They are not. 

Is there a clean distinction that you can provide?

My company's HR/DEI team has brought Dr. Kendi to talk to us twice (virtually). Isn't he a CRT guy? I think my perspective is that DEI initiatives certainly can be based on something other than CRT. But at least some DEI initiatives are based on CRT and are in corporate HR departments.

[Poe It Up 126]

Considering race relations are getting worse by the day, I wonder if the folks pushing stuff like CRT ever think they might need a change in approach. It doesn’t appear to be working. 

[Macklemore 2881]

20 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

You said his quote was from the WSJ. I searched and the best I could find was a letter to editor that was posted in the WSJ. I didn't find anything at all actually from the editorial board (i.e., written by the editors of the paper). Letters are literally things anyone can write and submit. You're free to submit one yourself and it may get published. The opinion piece you just posted from the New York Post is literally the same article by the same author as the original link. I don't believe it deserves additional credence merely because was also published the New York Post. I'm not sure you understand what an op-ed is, which is essentially a guest writer being allowed to contribute an essay to the paper. An op-ed usually somewhat more formal than a letter to the editor, but certainly doesn't come from the paper itself or purport to represent the views of the editors of paper. Op-eds have to stand on their own merits and the merits of the authors. They don't get to piggyback on the reputations of the paper(s) in which they are published. 

I said in my follow up post that I made a mistake in where the quote was from. It is from an op-ed in the NY Post. Op-eds still have to go through fact checks and verification of sources with the paper liable for the content being published

Edited May 20, 2021 by Macklemore

[Horn of Gabriel 1864]

CRT and DEI are definitely related.  If you believe the problem as framed by CRT, then DEI is a tool to resolve the problem.

I'm definitely against CRT and think it frames the problem far too simplistically.  However I'm open to the idea that CRT has been driven far past its original intent by those who would push for DEI.  In fact I think we need to break DEI apart, I believe if you were to survey Americans you'd find wide acceptance for Diversity and Inclusion.  Equity however is a far different story.  By simplifying differences between people to their race and racism alone, and creating a framework that Kendi proposed above to create equity is so far beyond most Americans' thinking.  Most people will hear equity and think "equality" which is probably the intent.  But it's subterfuge for a much different intent of amplifying the culture wars and drive redistribution and discrimination (again, not me saying it, it's Kendi).

If we require redistribution to advance as a society, let's do it up front as reparations, not under the covers as "equity."

[Dahobbs 17812]

3 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

I said in my follow up post that I made a mistake in where the quote was from. It is from an op-ed in the NY Post. Op-eds still have to go through fact checks and verification of sources with the paper liable for the content being published

It is an opinion piece, not a news article. Opinions themselves aren't subject to liability for defamation. There is likely some general checking to make sure none of the statements in the article could be construed as defamatory statements of fact against another person/entity, but beyond that you're not going to have the same journalistic review and standards as a news article. 

[TwiceHorn 31686]

The other thing, among all these contentions, is that CRT is a field of study, not some monolithic set of principles.  Every different scholar or practitioner in the field has a different view of things.  There are some commonalities, but I think it's risky to try to generalize.

Which is why it's kind of absurd to state that "Critical Race Theory" is being taught in our schools.

It's more like Philosophy than Thermodynamics.

It's like, "oh dear Lord, philosophy is being taught in the schools, all the children are going to turn into Nitzchean Nihilists."  Fucking absurd.

Edited May 20, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Doc Reeves 6434]

47 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Frankly, I don't pay too much attention to any kind of editorial journalism, other than Cloak Room screeds.

One exception is that I have always enjoyed the writing in The Atlantic, even going back to my callow days as a Republican.  I read most of it pretty critically though.

+ on the Atlantic.

[jimmyjazz 46479]

1 hour ago, Macklemore said:

Do you have the same critique for the NYT Opinion section? The NYT has always been liberal 

Sure, if we define "liberal" as "not racist or homophobic" (among other things).

[VivaNaranja 466]

I remember a certain other poster (who DEFINITELY isn't Macklemore) having a weird obsession with the WSJ letters to the editor.

 

Who was that poster again?... 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by VivaNaranja
I 'membered

[Captainant 27977]

2 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Are you sure that is accurate? Can you cite something here?

I ask because I was told the five tenets of critical race theory can be found in almost every public school in Texas, and teachers are now being required to attend training in these tenets of CRT.

Edit to add: this might be where the whole vague and nebulous definition and application of CRT is muddying the waters?

then why don't YOU source your claim rather than rely on the "pEoPlE aRe SaYiNg" trope?

[Macklemore 2881]

23 minutes ago, VivaNaranja said:

I remember a certain other poster (who DEFINITELY isn't Macklemore) having a weird obsession with the WSJ letters to the editor.

 

Who was that poster again?... 

I didn't post those quotes. I just said it was from something I remember reading in the paper.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Macklemore

[DonkeyCigars 143]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

1.) Ordinariness - racism is difficult to address and cure because it's not acknowledged.

2.) Interest Convergence - because racism benefits both elite Whites and working class Whites, large segments of society have little incentive to eradicate it. 

3.) Social Construction - race and races are products of social thought and relations.

4.) Differential Racialization - The "dominant society" racializes different minority groups at different times.

5.) Intersectionality - No person has a single, easily stated, unitary identity.  (Example: A White feminist can be Jewish, a Black activist can be male/female, straight or gay, a Latino can be a Democrat, a Republican, or even Black.)

6.) Storytelling - Because of their different histories and experiences with oppression, a PoC can communicate to Whites the matters and experiences that Whites are unlikely to know.

(Delgado & Stefancic, 2017)

 

 

*This is the framework I used for my dissertation.

Besides #3*, these tenets have no business being taught to children in the classroom. I hope for the sake of my public school brethren that they are not being, as you say. But in any case, I don't care and I would suggest if you do care about this issue, one way or another, vote with your feet and wallets.

 

*There is only one race: the Human Race.

[BabaYaga 15379]

56 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The other thing, among all these contentions, is that CRT is a field of study, not some monolithic set of principles.  Every different scholar or practitioner in the field has a different view of things.  There are some commonalities, but I think it's risky to try to generalize.

Which is why it's kind of absurd to state that "Critical Race Theory" is being taught in our schools.

It's more like Philosophy than Thermodynamics.

It's like, "oh dear Lord, philosophy is being taught in the schools, all the children are going to turn into Nitzchean Nihilists."  Fucking absurd.

I think the pushback of what is being "taught" is this power dynamic spilt solely down racial lines.  That racism is the driving force in society, that in order to understand power relations, in order to understand institutions such as the law, education, the Constitution, social relations, etc. you have to understand that through the lens of race.

Chris Rufo on CRT

Quote

Seattle [Public Grade School]

Seattle Public Schools tells teachers that the education system is guilty of “spirit murder” against black children and that white teachers must “bankrupt [their] privilege in acknowledgement of [their] thieved inheritance.”

San Diego [Public K – 8]

San Diego Public Schools accuses white teachers of being colonizers on stolen Native American land and tells them “you are racist” and “you are upholding racist ideas, structures, and policies.” They recommend that the teachers undergo “antiracist therapy.”

Cupertino, California [Public School, Third Graders]

A Cupertino, California, elementary school forces third-graders to deconstruct their racial and sexual identities, then rank themselves according to their “power and privilege.” They separate the eight-year-old children into oppressors and oppressed.

Springfield, Missouri [Public Middle School]

A middle school in Springfield, Missouri, forces teachers to locate themselves on an “oppression matrix,” claiming that white heterosexual Protestant males are inherently oppressors and must atone for their “covert white supremacy.”

Philadelphia [Public School – Fifth grade]

A Philadelphia elementary school forces fifth-graders to celebrate “Black communism” and simulate a Black Power rally to “free Angela Davis” from prison. At this school, 87 percent of students will fail to achieve basic literacy by graduation.

New York [Public School, Grades 6 – 12]

The principal of the East Side Community School in New York sent an email to white parents telling them that they should “subvert white authority,” become “white traitors,” and then advocate for full “white abolition.”

Buffalo [Public Grade Schools]

Buffalo Public Schools teaches students that “all white people” perpetuate systemic racism and forces kindergarteners to watch a video of dead black children warning them about “racist police and state-sanctioned violence” who might kill them at any time.

Arizona [ Department of Education Report regarding Babies]

The Arizona Department of Education created an “equity” toolkit claiming that babies show the first signs of racism at three months old and that white children become full racists—”strongly biased in favor of whiteness”—by age five.

California [Department of Education – Primary and Secondary School Students]

The California Department of Education passed an “ethnic studies” curriculum that calls for the “decolonization” of American society and has students chant to the Aztec god of human sacrifice. The solution, according to one author, is “countergenocide.”

North Carolina [Public grade schools and high schools]

North Carolina’s largest school district launches a campaign against “whiteness in educational spaces”—and encourages teachers to subvert families and push the ideology of “antiracism” directly onto students without parental consent.

Santa Clara, California [Public grade schools and high schools]

Santa Clara County Office of Education denounces the United States as a “parasitic system” based on the “invasion” of “white male settlers” and encourages teachers to “cash in on kids’ inherent empathy” in order to recruit them into political activism.

When you are finished absorbing the highly divisive course materials used by 

 

[Celery Man 21027]

Macklemore wrote a song about a thrift store, Rocko bought a corvette from a thrift store. It’s obvious, people.