Critical Race Theory policy in hiring at UT

[WhatTheBuck 28929]

45 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

You gotta be fucking kidding me.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-wcs-1st-grader-sally

TL;DR.  Mom starts a $5,000 GoFundMe for her 7 year old daughter's counseling because CRT was being taught in her 1st grade class and now the child is having suicidal thoughts.

I hope little Karen M. recovers.

Or not. It’s probably a con. 

[bad_teammate 13519]

3 hours ago, trauma babe said:

How do you read BT's response to my post (that questioned your dislike of microaggression)? Did you feel like it was demeaning to me? Would you call that a demeaning response to my post?

No idea why you took offense to my response. You asked if there was a better word and I pointed out that they are being disingenuous about not liking the word when what they really don't like is having to think about perspectives that aren't their own.

Also no clue what's gendered about it to make it mansplaining.

[washparkhorn 9973]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

"Ruby Bridges Goes to School."

Teaching about a brave child in America 62 years ago is appropriate.

[washparkhorn 9973]

5 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Teaching about a brave child in America 62 years ago is appropriate.

That is a Norman Rockwell painting. That's used to mean something to many of the Americans that now worry about CRT. 

[Guest Lobo]

If CRT is about teaching incorrect history, what the fuck are all the confederate statues teaching kids about?  Most kids associate statues with victors or important people.  The confederate leaders were neither.  But if we take those down, "We erase history?"  What about the literal erasing of history?  

I know, I know...Straw Man.  But there are statues in the south of men made of straw.  Let's burn 'em to the ground.  

[jimmyjazz 47173]

I'll quote an old HS friend of mine from his Facebook page, just to show what entrenched falsehoods look like.  I promise, he is a good guy.  He is absolutely not a racist.  However, his views are skewed by right wing media.  He believes this shit.

Quote

As I post this picture, I do so wishing you all a very happy Fourth of July. But at the same time, I am very concerned for our country (“a Republic, if you can keep it “, as Benjamin Franklin once said). I’m concerned about the freedoms that have eroded over the past year, in the name of public safety. I’m concerned about what the upcoming generation is being taught about our history in our schools via Critical Race Theory and the 1619 Project. That they are being taught that race separates us into the oppressors and the oppressed, fueling hatred and sowing discord. I am concerned that we have a National leader who seems to be a puppet of the far left, out of touch with reality, and who dodges the crisis on our southern border. I am concerned about Big Tech and the mainstream media silencing any dissent from the progressive narrative. Concerned that in a generation or less, our country may more closely resemble a totalitarian state than the America I grew up in and love. But still, and as of right now... it’s the greatest nation on earth, and I will continue to pray for it. May God heal our land. May God bless America.

I can't even engage.  I have no hope of convincing him that (a) he doesn't understand CRT and (b) CRT isn't taught in K-12.  I mean, these are fundamental disconnects that have been lodged in right wing America's collective mind, and there is no fighting it.  It's just not possible.

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2692]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I rather highly doubt that any aspect of CRT or anything even close, is being taught to first graders in Williamson County, Tennefuckingsee.

Here's some elaboration. https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/williamson/2021/06/11/wit-wisdom-curriculum-williamson-county-schools-critical-race-theory-criticism/5192703001/

The principal objection seems to be the reading by 1st graders of "Ruby Bridges Goes to School."

ETA:  on reflection, it does seem that talking about police barricades and protestor violence is a bit strong for first grade, whether in a racial context or not.  I don't remember anything very content-heavy in first grade reading.

Perhaps... For me in the 70s/80s, I think we were more left to the wolves to learn on our own. Stuff was sanitized but not overtly politicized. 

Here in Austin, my 1st-grader (at the time) was taught about MLK, including that he was assassinated. According to my son, the one African-American child in the class burst into tears when the teacher told them this. So who does that little girl sue, or beg to give to a Gofundme?  Historical facts? Whether taught too soon or not, there is a reckoning with the truth at some point that is more legitimately traumatic to some than others.  I think of that moment for that little girl in class and it just kills me.

[safe sex 12006]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

No idea why you took offense to my response. You asked if there was a better word and I pointed out that they are being disingenuous about not liking the word when what they really don't like is having to think about perspectives that aren't their own.

Also no clue what's gendered about it to make it mansplaining.

I suppose I thought it obvious that my question was rhetorical, and that, as a very openly queer woman on this website, it should be understood that I know why people (often straight white men) are needled by the term "microaggression" and that I was hoping for him to question his feelings about the word. So yes, I felt you mansplained the concept to me, though like I said, in a fairly micro way.

I wouldn't say that I took offense. I sighed, rolled my eyes, gave a sarcastic thank you, and went about my day until I realized that it was a good illustrative example of why the term "microaggression" is necessary and useful. We are on the same side, friend.

Edited July 8, 2021 by trauma babe

[TwiceHorn 32077]

16 minutes ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

Perhaps... For me in the 70s/80s, I think we were more left to the wolves to learn on our own. Stuff was sanitized but not overtly politicized. 

Here in Austin, my 1st-grader (at the time) was taught about MLK, including that he was assassinated. According to my son, the one African-American child in the class burst into tears when the teacher told them this. So who does that little girl sue, or beg to give to a Gofundme?  Historical facts? Whether taught too soon or not, there is a reckoning with the truth at some point that is more legitimately traumatic to some than others.  I think of that moment for that little girl in class and it just kills me.

Yeah, I don't know.  I just remember that first grade reading was quite devoid of any sort of real content, much less controversy.  It bored the hell out of me and I was later given more advanced stuff.  Remember SRAs?

I'm certainly not against teaching the realities of race in America, early and often.  I could see some of it being viewed as a little intense for 1st or 2nd graders, racial part aside.  I don't know if you want to show Bull Connor film before maybe 3rd or 4th grade.

 

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2692]

50 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, I don't know.  I just remember that first grade reading was quite devoid of any sort of real content, much less controversy.  It bored the hell out of me and I was later given more advanced stuff.  Remember SRAs?

I'm certainly not against teaching the realities of race in America, early and often.  I could see some of it being viewed as a little intense for 1st or 2nd graders, racial part aside.  I don't know if you want to show Bull Connor film before maybe 3rd or 4th grade.

 

Yes I remember SRA's!!  

I feel like you're doing straw-man stuff in talking about video footage. None of that is shown to elementary kids. As it wasn't to us.

At any rate, imagine being a little kid of color and hearing about the movement in the 60s and MLK, feeling optimistic, and then being told a man targeted and killed MLK. I'm putting that in juxtaposition with what Karens and Chads are worried about regarding their snowflakes being made to feel bad about themselves. 

[wildcat09 29579]

How do any of you assholes remember elementary school curriculum you had?

[TwiceHorn 32077]

8 hours ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

Yes I remember SRA's!!  

I feel like you're doing straw-man stuff in talking about video footage. None of that is shown to elementary kids. As it wasn't to us.

At any rate, imagine being a little kid of color and hearing about the movement in the 60s and MLK, feeling optimistic, and then being told a man targeted and killed MLK. I'm putting that in juxtaposition with what Karens and Chads are worried about regarding their snowflakes being made to feel bad about themselves. 

Not trying to straw man.  I don't know what Ruby Bridges actually contains.  I'm just thinking of civil rights era violence and confrontation, which is kind of unavoidable in that sort of context.  And, I can see that type of thing being reasonably viewed as strong for early elementary.  In the same way that war stories might. Or the holocaust.  Or even assassination.

I don't know.

[Js1 87181]

12 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I hope little Karen M. recovers.

Or not. It’s probably a con. 

Ding ding ding ding.

Mom will soon be announcing her run for school board and be on Fox News in a week. 

[elfenix 34749]

42 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

How do any of you assholes remember elementary school curriculum you had?

i remember the really shitty way they taught us to add and subtract in first grade. 

[elfenix 34749]

35 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't know what Ruby Bridges actually contains.

 

[bad_teammate 13519]

10 hours ago, trauma babe said:

I sighed, rolled my eyes, gave a sarcastic thank you, and went about my day until I realized that it was a good illustrative example of why the term "microaggression" is necessary and useful.

"Yes, and" is a common way for people to show agreement, reinforce each other's point, and display solidarity.

Quote

We are on the same side, friend.

Until it's rhetorically useful to not be, I guess.

 

[bad_teammate 13519]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

How do any of you assholes remember elementary school curriculum you had?

Must be young, I guess. 

I remember a VERY well-liked and strict black lady teaching us in 2nd and 3rd grade (small area, small school). As a Good Boy in Class, I loved her. Racist family members adored her. Don't remember her name, though. This is a ways back, so the fact that she could whip white kids without issue and was believed over some lying little white brat was, in hindsight, pretty special.

Don't remember shit about what I learned or how, though. Just remember playing and pissing in the tall grass after being told not to.

[TwiceHorn 32077]

37 minutes ago, elfenix said:

 

That's fine then.

I was thinking more along the lines of this.  

Then again, the Boston busing riots happened when I was about that age and I saw it on the news, and they were violent.

If the notion of people being that cruel to one another is mildly traumatizing to young children, well that is probably for the better.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

The tough thing about micro-aggressions is that they are so very subjective. One they's microaggression is another they's not.

[Captainant 28535]

36 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

The tough thing about micro-aggressions is that they are so very subjective. One they's microaggression is another they's not.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy

[DonkeyCigars 143]

11 minutes ago, Captainant said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy

I completely agree with you if you are saying that avoiding micro-aggressions is being empathetic.

What I'm saying is tough, is not accidentally or unintentionally micro-agressing (is that the term?) someone because it is so very subjective. A comment or specific word for one person might be a micro-aggression to someone and to someone else it might not be, even if those someone's are seemingly the same on the surface.

I've been trying to put in some self-work as a human and have joined some employee group meetings as an "ally" for things that don't, on the surface, pertain or impact me. I will use pro-nouns as requested which has been a change recently, and am just generally trying to be more empathetic to your overall point.

Edited July 8, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[Nice Guy Eddie 13729]

15 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'll quote an old HS friend of mine from his Facebook page, just to show what entrenched falsehoods look like.  I promise, he is a good guy.  He is absolutely not a racist.  However, his views are skewed by right wing media.  He believes this shit.

I can't even engage.  I have no hope of convincing him that (a) he doesn't understand CRT and (b) CRT isn't taught in K-12.  I mean, these are fundamental disconnects that have been lodged in right wing America's collective mind, and there is no fighting it.  It's just not possible.

CNN has a good article (link) that right wing politics have created panic over issues that don't exist.  Your friend's rant was that our kids are all being indoctrinated today with CRT and 1619 project. This is 100% false. 

To me, the only thing you can engage, with these believers, is telling them that it's not true and leave it at that. They need to know that others in their social circle believe they're wrong but I wouldn't get into an argument with them.

[Pancho 46301]

28 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

CNN has a good article (link) that right wing politics have created panic over issues that don't exist.  Your friend's rant was that our kids are all being indoctrinated today with CRT and 1619 project. This is 100% false. 

To me, the only thing you can engage, with these believers, is telling them that it's not true and leave it at that. They need to know that others in their social circle believe they're wrong but I wouldn't get into an argument with them.

Correct as it relates to @jimmyjazz and others. 

There have been too many stories like this on this website where people don’t do or say anything, and I just don’t believe that is the best option.  You absolutely have to say something, even if it’s something small like “This just isn’t true” or “This is a lie” or something.  I’m not saying jazz did this, but for others it’s too easy to say they can’t be helped so there’s no point in saying anything.  To that I say bullshit. 

[safe sex 12006]

5 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

"Yes, and" is a common way for people to show agreement, reinforce each other's point, and display solidarity.

Until it's rhetorically useful to not be, I guess.

 

"Yes and?" I have no idea what that is about.

I'm honestly shocked you seem so upset about this.  Getting a minor little call out hardly means I think you're some kind of bigot. Everyone unknowingly commits microaggressions at times. It happens! It's a part of life! File it away and try not to repeat something similar.

[jimmyjazz 47173]

9 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Correct as it relates to @jimmyjazz and others. 

There have been too many stories like this on this website where people don’t do or say anything, and I just don’t believe that is the best option.  You absolutely have to say something, even if it’s something small like “This just isn’t true” or “This is a lie” or something.  I’m not saying jazz did this, but for others it’s too easy to say they can’t be helped so there’s no point in saying anything.  To that I say bullshit. 

In my defense, I dated his sister in HS and she was pretty damn hot.  My judgment might be skewed.

[bad_teammate 13519]

There were two options:
A - I was answering your question as if you didn't already have an answer.
B - I was answering your question to make it more obvious to your audience. 

My intention was B, your interpretation was A.

I have no control over how I'm interpreted.

But it might be useful to ask yourself why you chose A. Why was that your gut reaction?

You felt microaggressed so you responded with sarcasm/condescension and then the target of that also felt microaggressed? Are you automatically correct because you had the negative feeling first?

Interesting questions to consider on this topic.

[TwiceHorn 32077]

Fairly insightful article on the Anti-CRT wave.  https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/07/north-carolina-critical-race-theory-ban-free-speech/619381/

[Pancho 46301]

 

[bad_teammate 13519]

3 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

TW: I AM AGREEING WITH YOU AND EXTENDING THE THINKING NOT PRESUMING TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU

This is why you are correct about needing to push back in public spaces. If you challenge them they have to try to come up with something concrete, because they won't allow themselves to accept that their position is merely reactive/emotional. And hopefully, once they try to come up with a logical foundation and fail they can start to question what presumptions that were working with.

[RDCanecutter 26883]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

CNN has a good article (link) that right wing politics have created panic over issues that don't exist.

I am considering starting a FB viral post protesting the NCAA's woke CRT decision to void the past championships of every college that was segregated at the time, or even if not segregated, was coached by someone who themselves had learned to play football at a segregated school.

The two things holding me back are that I don't know how to keep my name off of it, and even if it caused an amusing amount of rage, I just really don't care.

[UncleSonny 6798]

23 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

The chafing doesn't come from the word, but from having to consider a wider gamut of issues.

 

46 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

TW: I AM AGREEING WITH YOU AND EXTENDING THE THINKING NOT PRESUMING TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU

It seems like a bit that you would get this pissy about being criticized for this rather than... considering the wider gamut of issues that led to getting your very light rebuking. 

[bad_teammate 13519]

I am hiring a detective to figure out who is actually mad online. The results will be in this weekend. In the meantime, consideration of an idea requires a discussion of the idea itself and not just the perceived emotional states of the actors in the discussion.

2 hours ago, UncleSonny said:

It seems like a bit that you would get this pissy about being criticized for this rather than... considering the wider gamut of issues that led to getting your very light rebuking. 

That's exactly what this line of questioning is intended to do:

------------------------
But it might be useful to ask yourself why you chose A. Why was that your gut reaction?

You felt microaggressed so you responded with sarcasm/condescension and then the target of that also felt microaggressed? Are you automatically correct because you had the negative feeling first?

Interesting questions to consider on this topic.
-------------------------

[Willfully Horn 8261]

22 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I mean, these are fundamental disconnects that have been lodged in right wing America's collective mind, and there is no fighting it.  It's just not possible.

Countertweet:

 

 

[Satchel 6982]

Congressional Republicans are calling for her removal:

The professor, Lynne Chandler García, penned a column published Tuesday in The Washington Post titled: "I'm a professor at a U.S. military academy. Here's why I teach critical race theory."  

"In my classes, cadets learn about the ideals embedded in this founding document. We explore the liberalist theories that promoted these ideals, and we embrace our democratic system of government. But we also acknowledge that the United States was founded on a duality: liberalism and equal rights on the one hand; inequality, inegalitarianism and second-class citizenship on the other," García, an associate professor who teaches political science at the academy, wrote.

"Critical race theory provides an academic framework to understand these nuances and contradictions. It helps students identify the structural racism and inequality that has been endemic in American society. And it provides methods for deconstructing oppressive beliefs, policies and practices to find solutions that will lead to justice." 

Officers must comprehend the unique experiences and concerns of their diverse troops. A holistic education leads to understanding and unity as service members consider what it’s like to walk in another’s shoes," she wrote. "I don’t coddle my cadets out of fear that exposure to certain literatures might make them uncomfortable or test their existing beliefs. Cadets must learn to be brave on the literal battlefield, yes — but they must also be equipped to participate bravely on the battlefield of ideas." 
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/562051-gop-rep-demands-air-force-academy-prof-be-removed-for-penning-op-ed-backing

[elfenix 34749]

so many snowflakes

[Tuco 5093]

If “critical race theory” has proven one thing, it’s that the wording was never the issue with “black lives matters.” It’s not a issue of marketing or finding the right slogan. Many Americans are going to push back on the idea that racism needs to addressed. Period. There is no magical way to explain it to them.

[jimmyjazz 47173]

To me, there's a gaping disconnect between the assertion that modern white America bears no responsibility for the sins of their fathers and the abject fear of anyone shining a bright light on America's history when it comes to race relations.  I mean, if one is not responsible, why would one care what truths are revealed?

[washparkhorn 9973]

[NWBuck 8629]

52 minutes ago, Tuco said:

 Many Americans are going to push back on the idea that racism needs to addressed exists at all. Period. There is no magical way to explain it to them.

Fixed for accuracy.

[Biff Tannen 46164]

So someone near to me said that CRT was Marxist.  I heard this through a third party, so I wasn't there.  And this person is generally smart.  I was just pretty dumbfounded as to what he even meant.  Can someone try and explain what that means?

[Captainant 28535]

16 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

So someone near to me said that CRT was Marxist.  I heard this through a third party, so I wasn't there.  And this person is generally smart.  I was just pretty dumbfounded as to what he even meant.  Can someone try and explain what that means?

Go back to the first page of this thread. It's a second/third hand antisemitic conspiracy theory originating from the nazis. Google "cultural marxism"

[TwiceHorn 32077]

23 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

So someone near to me said that CRT was Marxist.  I heard this through a third party, so I wasn't there.  And this person is generally smart.  I was just pretty dumbfounded as to what he even meant.  Can someone try and explain what that means?

CRT is a branch of Critical Studies or Critical Theory.  Critical Studies originated at the Frankfurt School in Germany in the 30s by a bunch of Jewish scholars.  https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/critical-theory/

Those scholars were generally of a "Marxist" or Hegelian bent broadly speaking.  Marx was a philosopher first, and the Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital, the works associated with what we refer to as "Marxism" were just some of his works, not the sum total of his work.  So something can be "Marxist" or associated with the philosophical ideas of Karl Marx without necessarily being "communist-Marxist."

The statement that CRT is "Marxist" is both accurate and wildly inaccurate, depending on the definition of Marxism applied.

Edited July 9, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[NWBuck 8629]

25 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

So someone near to me said that CRT was Marxist.  I heard this through a third party, so I wasn't there.  And this person is generally smart.  I was just pretty dumbfounded as to what he even meant.  Can someone try and explain what that means?

Ask them to define "Marxist"... for most people, it's just a "scary word" and dog whistle. It's worth remembering that MLK was labeled a Marxist as an attempt to discredit him as well- it's this year's version of "socialist".

"Critical Theories" emerged from the German Frankfort School, and were influenced by Social Marxist thinking (particularly in regards to power differentials). Additionally, the work of Freud and Erich Fromm were involved here (but no one says CRT is Freudian, which seems to be a significant slip). The second phase of Critical Theory, though, included some efforts to shift away from Marxism out of a desire to include a moral or ethical context (Marxism being agnostic/atheistic).

If you're a podcast person, this one opens up with a pretty good description of critical theory and where/when it diverged: https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/quick-to-listen/critical-race-theory-racism-evangelicals-divided-podcast.html (NOTE- that's from an evangelical perspective, the Marx discussion starts around 6:45)

Interesting article from the American Bar Association: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/civil-rights-reimagining-policing/a-lesson-on-critical-race-theory/ 

Edited July 9, 2021 by NWBuck

[jimmyjazz 47173]

I'd honestly like to see anyone point out a purely communist society, or a purely socialist society, or a (gasp) purely capitalist society.  I'm not sure any have ever existed.  With greed existing as a fundamentally human trait, none of those economic philosophies can exist in their purest form.

[Biff Tannen 46164]

1 hour ago, NWBuck said:

Ask them to define "Marxist"... for most people, it's just a "scary word" and dog whistle. It's worth remembering that MLK was labeled a Marxist as an attempt to discredit him as well- it's this year's version of "socialist".

This is what the third party in my example asked and the reply came back "you define it!"  So yes, scary word is what I think was implied.

[washparkhorn 9973]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'd honestly like to see anyone point out a purely communist society, or a purely socialist society, or a (gasp) purely capitalist society.  I'm not sure any have ever existed.  With greed existing as a fundamentally human trait, none of those economic philosophies can exist in their purest form.

Greed is not a virtue. 

[StassneyHorn 6767]

Can you guys just let this thread fall of the front page already

[jimmyjazz 47173]

3 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Greed is not a virtue. 

Did I say it was?

[washparkhorn 9973]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This is what the third party in my example asked and the reply came back "you define it!"  So yes, scary word is what I think was implied.

Communism is no way to finance a country. That is why we choose State Capitalism. ~ China Communist Party

[washparkhorn 9973]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Did I say it was?

No. I was amplifying your post - which I thought was well stated. My apologies.

All I have to combat greed is an appeal to virtue, which fewer care about these days. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by washparkhorn