Critical Race Theory policy in hiring at UT

[workswithseed 2,122]

5 minutes ago, Lobo said:

So wait, you're gonna fight TreatyOak or a Wolf-Chimp hybrid?  Or both?  

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2858091/human-chimp-hybrid-humanzee-born-1920s/

PLAYING GOD 

Inside bizarre world of human-chimp hybrids HUMANZEES as creature was ‘born before being killed by scientists in 1920s’

[Guest Lobo]

I like how it says, "born before being killed by scientists"  There's two ways to interpret that sentence and both are fucking hilarious.  At least in my twisted head. 

[TreatyOak 16,435]

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I went to a STEM magnet program in middle school and a bunch of my friends continued on to the STEM magnet highschools in our district. I was learning trig in 6th grade and using it to calculate the altitude of the flight of a rocket I built over the semester.

But then we also used that trig to study the ancient Egyptian pyramids, and used that as a springboard into other social sciences and studies. And then later in the semester, used it again to build a trebuchet and calculate how far it would throw a tennis ball. But the rest of the curriculum used it as an opportunity to study medieval history, literature, and medicine. Hell we had a project to create a book about herbal medicine in folklore, and I've genuinely used some of that knowledge as an adult while camping and living life.

 

Point being, it's wholistic and inclusive. It's not the STEM ONLY emphasis that you continue to fallaciously push. In fact, the humanities (namely music) are fantastic interfaces to apply their STEM knowledge towards other fields and better apply and generalize their knowledge, rather than constraining their knowledge and life experience to a single perspective that you, a well-meaning white man, decides for them.

Great post. Thanks for the info. 

[YChang 3,463]

7 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

Great post. Thanks for the info. 

I hope some of what we've shared helps and that you'll also take into consideration. Because otherwise (my opinion) the school system will just churn out robots. Really smart ones but once a novel problem comes up... they may not have the skills to diagnose or adapt and problem-solve. I'm sure as someone in industry you've witnessed this before.

Another personal example. My slice of tech deals with a lot of programmers ( I refuse to call them engineers, lol) and 3D artists. Some programmers lacks... well creativity. It's really 1 way to do things with them. You toss an idea at them and if they don' know how to create it, they'll shut down. Versus other programmers I've worked with that's willing to try and experiment and tackle it from different angles. And the 3d artists are technically adapt. But they have 0 artistic foundation so their work looks like crap.  

[Nivek 17,000]

35 minutes ago, Captainant said:

If that's all you got out of the two pages of discussion on why what you proposed is horribly regressive and echoes racist policies of the past... I'd say you're more interested in being a victim than actually discussing anything.

Look dickhead, you cannot have a discussion when someone is defensive.   

 

I know you see what I did there. I purposely used inflammatory language and behind it a reasonable statement.  But that statement's intent is ruined because of the first two words.  For the record I do not think you are a dickhead.   But the quotes above posted by Treaty Oak are a little ambiguous, but if he is feeling attacked or belittled, it is not unreasonable for him to draw that conclusion that he might feeling labeled.  It would be nice if someone would say, " hey, I don't think you are a racist but rather I think you are not seeing the big picture here." 

CRT is a graduate level discussion topic because it is complex and requires quite a bit of background that most of us have not put in the time to understand, sort of like stable isotope geochemistry (tying it back to STEM).   

TLDR: We are kind of bad at communicating on here sometimes.

 

[Nivek 17,000]

26 minutes ago, Lobo said:

So wait, you're gonna fight TreatyOak or a Wolf-Chimp hybrid?  Or both?  

[YChang 3,463]

3 minutes ago, Nivek said:

TLDR: We are kind of bad at communicating on here sometimes.

Would really be curious what would happen if everyone just dial down notch at being assholes or angry at everything. 

[jimmyjazz 46,300]

I don't have a problem with high schools that focus more heavily on STEM, or classics (Latin, literature) or the arts.  Hell, I root for a college program that routinely signs neo-professional athletes out of high schools that pretty much exist to crank out college athletes.  I don't have a problem admitting the hypocrisy there.

In college, kids choose a major.  STEM students will take less history and literature than English or poli-sci majors, and the converse is true.  It's the nature of the beast.  That said, ELIMINATING any particular discipline at the high school level is a recipe for creating young people who are less than optimal in what they might eventually offer an employer.  This includes everything from physics to biology to coding to history to creative arts to economics to physical fitness.  

[jimmyjazz 46,300]

5 minutes ago, YChang said:

Would really be curious what would happen if everyone just dial down notch at being assholes or angry at everything. 

Oh, blow me.

 

 

 

#cough

[wildcat09 29,439]

26 minutes ago, YChang said:

Would really be curious what would happen if everyone just dial down notch at being assholes or angry at everything. 

Something something cold dead hands.

[aggie08 21,561]

28 minutes ago, YChang said:

Would really be curious what would happen if everyone just dial down notch at being assholes or angry at everything. 

Why do you hate America?

[Pancho 45,117]

Treaty Oak said we should stop teaching the "wrong" about history in urban schools and stop teaching history and social studies all together in urban schools and replace those with STEM.

He's advocating Black and Brown people stop learning about their history in America.  That is what people found morally wrong and called him out on it.  People asked why he would want Black and Brown people to not know about their historical place in America and instead have that replaced with a coding class.  That is the question. That's the only question he hasn't answered.  

[WhatTheBuck 28,814]

1 hour ago, TreatyOak said:

What The Buck: "That post has a very “I’m not a racist, but...” quality to it."

I stand by that statement and you’re a delicate little snowflake if you equate that with being called a racist. 

[Captainant 27,862]

51 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Look dickhead, you cannot have a discussion when someone is defensive.   

 

I know you see what I did there. I purposely used inflammatory language and behind it a reasonable statement.  But that statement's intent is ruined because of the first two words.  For the record I do not think you are a dickhead.   But the quotes above posted by Treaty Oak are a little ambiguous, but if he is feeling attacked or belittled, it is not unreasonable for him to draw that conclusion that he might feeling labeled.  It would be nice if someone would say, " hey, I don't think you are a racist but rather I think you are not seeing the big picture here." 

CRT is a graduate level discussion topic because it is complex and requires quite a bit of background that most of us have not put in the time to understand, sort of like stable isotope geochemistry (tying it back to STEM).   

TLDR: We are kind of bad at communicating on here sometimes.

You're asking me to use kid gloves with someone who's advocating jim-crow policy. It should make him uncomfortable to face that parallel. It's not my job to protect his feelings from the consequences of his words.

You'll note, I haven't been name-calling or using personal attacks against TO, despite his consistent and fallacious misrepresentation of my (and others) position and argument. I've taken the time to type it out, support with evidence, and provide my own personal experiences.

I'm not sure what else I could be doing to communicate better, aside from deferring to all of his opinions over my own just to avoid making him feel defensive. His opinions on this are frankly disgusting and incredibly misguided in my opinion, and I'm ok with being frank and honest about that. I'm at least doing him the courtesy of directly answering and addressing his points, rather than relying on hollow rhetoric and implication.  

Edited April 7, 2022 by Captainant

[TreatyOak 16,435]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

Look dickhead, you cannot have a discussion when someone is defensive.   

 

I know you see what I did there. I purposely used inflammatory language and behind it a reasonable statement.  But that statement's intent is ruined because of the first two words.  For the record I do not think you are a dickhead.   But the quotes above posted by Treaty Oak are a little ambiguous, but if he is feeling attacked or belittled, it is not unreasonable for him to draw that conclusion that he might feeling labeled.  It would be nice if someone would say, " hey, I don't think you are a racist but rather I think you are not seeing the big picture here." 

CRT is a graduate level discussion topic because it is complex and requires quite a bit of background that most of us have not put in the time to understand, sort of like stable isotope geochemistry (tying it back to STEM).   

TLDR: We are kind of bad at communicating on here sometimes.

 

Thanks for your posts. Here, if you post an opinion that differs from other people, you're stupid, "simple," a racist, a communist, a snowflake, etc, etc. It's truly reflective of how we are unable to handle disagreement on a national scale.  

[Huckleberry 33,120]

This is why I hate long threads and discussion shifts. I hadn't clicked on this thread in a long time because I was done with the CRT "oh my god I hate CRT it's poisoning our children's minds also I don't know what CRT is" idiocy. But apparently the thread got good again on a whole different, albeit somewhat related, topic. Damn you all. 

[wildcat09 29,439]

6 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

This is why I hate long threads and discussion shifts. I hadn't clicked on this thread in a long time because I was done with the CRT "oh my god I hate CRT it's poisoning our children's minds also I don't know what CRT is" idiocy. But apparently the thread got good again on a whole different, albeit somewhat related, topic. Damn you all. 

Look buddy, Texags is thataway -------->

[Pancho 45,117]

9 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

Thanks for your posts. Here, if you post an opinion that differs from other people, you're stupid, "simple," a racist, a communist, a snowflake, etc, etc. It's truly reflective of how we are unable to handle disagreement on a national scale.  

This is 100% bullshit.

For the 57th time, you advocated for getting rid of history and social studies classes and stop teaching the “wrongs” of American history and instead replace those classes with a fucking coding class. You are therefore advocating we stop teaching Black and Brown people about their history in American.

You were called racist, snowflake, and whatever else because of what you’ve said and advocated for.  

You did this to yourself.

[Captainant 27,862]

13 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

Thanks for your posts. Here, if you post an opinion that differs from other people, you're stupid, "simple," a racist, a communist, a snowflake, etc, etc. It's truly reflective of how we are unable to handle disagreement on a national scale.  

100% disagree with you. You are reading the disagreement and then turning off your brain. We aren't culture warring here. We're talking about real tangible repurcussions to the policies you're advocating for, and highlighting who else advocates for similar policy. If you don't like the repurcussions or the people who agree with you, that doesn't make you a victim of different opinion. It means you're realizing the reality of your position and opinions.

Truly, there has actually been a discussion over the last few pages. And yet, you're acting like you're getting run out of the board on a rail because you've picked up a few negs along the way.

Why the reliance on victimization rather than just bringing better arguments? If I bitched and moaned about every time someone who disagreed with me negged me, I'd be (even more) fucking insufferable

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,821]

It's a conundrum.  We've lost the ability to have civil discourse with each other, partially because "one side" lives in an alternate reality.  I mean, I can have discussions with my imaginary friend Harvey, but Harvey doesn't fucking exist, and neither do his ideas.   So while my moral high ground wants to engage Treaty Oak, the lack of good faith in anything the GQP has to offer basically negates that.  Nobody has time for this shit.  

[WhatTheBuck 28,814]

10 minutes ago, Captainant said:

100% disagree with you. You are reading the disagreement and then turning off your brain. We aren't culture warring here. We're talking about real tangible repurcussions to the policies you're advocating for, and highlighting who else advocates for similar policy. If you don't like the repurcussions or the people who agree with you, that doesn't make you a victim of different opinion. It means you're realizing the reality of your position and opinions.

Truly, there has actually been a discussion over the last few pages. And yet, you're acting like you're getting run out of the board on a rail because you've picked up a few negs along the way.

Why the reliance on victimization rather than just bringing better arguments? If I bitched and moaned about every time someone who disagreed with me negged me, I'd be (even more) fucking insufferable

Negged.  

[hpslugga 4,065]

32 minutes ago, Captainant said:

100% disagree with you. You are reading the disagreement and then turning off your brain. We aren't culture warring here. We're talking about real tangible repurcussions to the policies you're advocating for, and highlighting who else advocates for similar policy. If you don't like the repurcussions or the people who agree with you, that doesn't make you a victim of different opinion. It means you're realizing the reality of your position and opinions.

Truly, there has actually been a discussion over the last few pages. And yet, you're acting like you're getting run out of the board on a rail because you've picked up a few negs along the way.

Why the reliance on victimization rather than just bringing better arguments? If I bitched and moaned about every time someone who disagreed with me negged me, I'd be (even more) fucking insufferable

Guys, this “debate” has long since expired. Treaty Oak is fully aware that his views are both untenable and indefensible. The thing is that he doesn’t care.

When you are that wrong, you come to a T-intersection. You can either turn left, which means owning up to how wrong you were and obligately change your view; or you can turn right, which means doing everything you possibly can to distract both yourself and everyone else from that reality because you’re beholden to what amounts to a belief system. He turned to the right. Just leave it alone. If you want to put out y’all’s objections to what he’s saying (which I agree with, especially regarding @Pancho’s comments), that’s one thing. But personally addressing him? That’s about as useful as an asshole on an elbow.

Edited April 7, 2022 by hpslugga

[Brian Fantana 6,692]

2 hours ago, YChang said:

My slice of tech deals with a lot of programmers ( I refuse to call them engineers, lol)

Hey fuck you buddy

[TreatyOak 16,435]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

This is 100% bullshit.

For the 57th time, you advocated for getting rid of history and social studies classes and stop teaching the “wrongs” of American history and instead replace those classes with a fucking coding class. You are therefore advocating we stop teaching Black and Brown people about their history in American.

You were called racist, snowflake, and whatever else because of what you’ve said and advocated for.  

You did this to yourself.

Well, what we are currently doing for a large segment of our population clearly isn't working, as we have huge numbers of people leaving high school with no skills or prospects. I propose we re-focus on the ways that we can give them a better chance or a shot at a useful* college degree, like they are doing at a highly-regarded school in South Texas. 

*We already have enough people graduating from college with bullshit degrees and no tangible skills, many mired in hopeless debt, but that is for another thread. 

[fattyflattie 4,638]

24 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

Well, what we are currently doing for a large segment of our population clearly isn't working, as we have huge numbers of people leaving high school with no skills or prospects. I propose we re-focus on the ways that we can give them a better chance or a shot at a useful* college degree, like they are doing at a highly-regarded school in South Texas. 

*We already have enough people graduating from college with bullshit degrees and no tangible skills, many mired in hopeless debt, but that is for another thread. 

Fwiw, I understood this is the point you were making the entire time. Let’s get the disenfranchised on the right track, get things evened up, and move forward.  But you know, there’s little to argue about in that.  

[Beau Vine 54,471]

1 hour ago, TreatyOak said:

Thanks for your posts. Here, if you post an opinion that differs from other people, you're stupid, "simple," a racist, a communist, a snowflake, etc, etc. It's truly reflective of how we are unable to handle disagreement on a national scale.  

I mean, you're in a thread about CRT, which has literally become a racist bogeyman for members of the GOP.

[YChang 3,463]

36 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

Well, what we are currently doing for a large segment of our population clearly isn't working, as we have huge numbers of people leaving high school with no skills or prospects. I propose we re-focus on the ways that we can give them a better chance or a shot at a useful* college degree, like they are doing at a highly-regarded school in South Texas. 

*We already have enough people graduating from college with bullshit degrees and no tangible skills, many mired in hopeless debt, but that is for another thread. 

Our education system k-12 and higher ed is broken. I think we can all agree on this. STEM isn't going to be a magic bullet even for the segment of population you've referenced.

If anything it's going to be a mix of:

• Funding from govt
• Funding from colleges/unis (endowment building like what Ohio State is doing to help 1st gen students, low-income student, hell all students)
• Better training, continue education for K-12 educators
• STEAM for in K-12
• Revision to K-12 curriculum
• Trade school (partner with Junior Colleges) & apprenticeship track for kids who don't have the aptitude or desire at that moment in their life to pursue higher-ed
• Proper counseling of college kids that, hey be aware there's not a lot of jobs for medieval feminist French lit unless you want to teach and that one prof at Swarthmore or Bowdoin hasn't croaked yet. Consider double majoring or minor in general business. 
• Internships
• Work-programs in govt for a few year post graduation as a way to work off student loan debt
• Mix in a few liberal arts credit hours for hard science majors
• Mix in a few credit hours in business and hard sciences for lib art majors

 

I'm sure I'm missing plenty of other stuff...

Edited April 7, 2022 by YChang

[Captainant 27,862]

7 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Fwiw, I understood this is the point you were making the entire time. Let’s get the disenfranchised on the right track, get things evened up, and move forward.  But you know, there’s little to argue about in that.  

TO has explicitly clarified in this thread that he thinks that the """economically disadvantaged""" should learn exclusively STEM materials and to leave history, arts, and humanities to everyone else who """doesn't need to pay back loans""". You're being either incredibly naive or intellectually dishonest if you don't think he's walking back his outrageous prior position.

[jimmyjazz 46,300]

9 minutes ago, YChang said:

I'm sure I'm missing plenty of other stuff...

There's the part where half the population isn't very smart.

[Serak The Preparer 3,434]

21 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Fwiw, I understood this is the point you were making the entire time. Let’s get the disenfranchised on the right track, get things evened up, and move forward.  But you know, there’s little to argue about in that.  

Lol you want to accomplish this through raising taxes on poor people so let's not pretend that the methodology of accomplishing goals doesn't matter.

[fattyflattie 4,638]

12 minutes ago, Captainant said:

TO has explicitly clarified in this thread that he thinks that the """economically disadvantaged""" should learn exclusively STEM materials and to leave history, arts, and humanities to everyone else who """doesn't need to pay back loans""". You're being either incredibly naive or intellectually dishonest if you don't think he's walking back his outrageous prior position.

Yeah I get that, and not sure he had thought it all the way through. But I *think his point was trying to get something moving in the right direction.  Because what we are doing now isn't, for a large part of the population.  And while important to learn the humanities, for many it doesn't pay the bills as well as STEM jobs do.  

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,821]

39 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Fwiw, I understood this is the point you were making the entire time. Let’s get the disenfranchised on the right track, get things evened up, and move forward.  But you know, there’s little to argue about in that.  

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that we need to also distinguish people that “feel” disenfranchised from those that truly are.  

[wildcat09 29,439]

1 hour ago, TreatyOak said:

Well, what we are currently doing for a large segment of our population clearly isn't working, as we have huge numbers of people leaving high school with no skills or prospects. I propose we re-focus on the ways that we can give them a better chance or a shot at a useful* college degree, like they are doing at a highly-regarded school in South Texas. 

*We already have enough people graduating from college with bullshit degrees and no tangible skills, many mired in hopeless debt, but that is for another thread. 

We really don't. The number of people graduating with "bullshit degrees" (as you'd characterize them) are a fairly small percentage of total college graduates. Two seconds on Google turned up this list of the most popular majors. Of the top 25, I'd guess maybe you'd consider anthropology and sociology bullshit, but that comes in at 10. After that, you'd probably consider art at 18 bullshit, foreign languages at 21 bullshit, design at 22 bullshit. But all combined those barely exceed psychology at 3 and are less than half of the number of business majors. And as a percentage of total degrees, you can add all the lower "bullshit" degrees that each award a few thousand per year and we're still talking about a very small percentage of total degrees awarded. 

You can find different lists that rank things a little differently (apparently due to different classifications for certain majors), but you'll see pretty much the same thing using any list you look at. The common boomer "kids these days all go to college for bullshit degrees and graduate with no skills" take is basically nonsense based on a couple of anecdotes from their friends bitching about their kids. 

[Captainant 27,862]

15 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Yeah I get that, and not sure he had thought it all the way through. But I *think his point was trying to get something moving in the right direction.  Because what we are doing now isn't, for a large part of the population.  And while important to learn the humanities, for many it doesn't pay the bills as well as STEM jobs do.  

I argue that the solution isn't to reduce the scope of our education but rather to actually fund our education. Ya know, rather than continuing to dole out TWO MOTHERFUCKING TRILLION DOLLARS TO CORPORATE INTERESTS while teachers with masters degrees are getting paid dogshit.

Highschool and public primary education shouldn't be about job preparation. It should be about creating an environment to foster well rounded, well informed, critical thinking people who can meaningfully contribute to society and democracy. Not just to be a useful worker caste for business interests.

Now talking higher education, that's a completely different story and a completely different fuck fuck game. But you're reeeaaaalllly moving the goalposts if you're now claiming that TO really meant undergrads and not grade schoolers.

[jimmyjazz 46,300]

21 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Yeah I get that, and not sure he had thought it all the way through. But I *think his point was trying to get something moving in the right direction.  Because what we are doing now isn't, for a large part of the population.  And while important to learn the humanities, for many it doesn't pay the bills as well as STEM jobs do.  

@TreatyOak disagrees.

[wildcat09 29,439]

23 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Yeah I get that, and not sure he had thought it all the way through. But I *think his point was trying to get something moving in the right direction.  Because what we are doing now isn't, for a large part of the population.  And while important to learn the humanities, for many it doesn't pay the bills as well as STEM jobs do.  

The goal of teaching some basic social studies stuff to kids in K-12 isn't to make them ready for the highest paying jobs, it's to help make them functional members of a democratic society. 

[fattyflattie 4,638]

8 minutes ago, Captainant said:

It should be about creating an environment to foster well rounded, well informed, critical thinking people who can meaningfully contribute to society and democracy.

That starts at home. 
 

9 minutes ago, Captainant said:

But you're reeeaaaalllly moving the goalposts if you're now claiming that TO really meant undergrads and not grade schoolers.

My understanding is he was talking high school prep, to be easier admitted into STEM college. 

[Captainant 27,862]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

That starts at home. 

And what if there was, say, some sort of rhetorical but also real war on a societal ill that was explicitly designed to interrupt the home structure of an entire demographic of people? Well that would just be UNPOSSIBLE in MY AMERICA because racism died after 1965 amirite???

Just imagine if there was some historic and ingrained intentional wronging of a group for no reason but their skin color and temerity to demand equal rights... It sure would do a doozie on that entire demographic and make them prone to.... What was it again, """poor people behavior"""? Yeah that's it... That's a good way to justify treating those groups as "other" and would be a good reason to withhold educational topics from them - because those """poor people""" just don't have the capacity to understand it and make use of it like we can.

9 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

My understanding is he was talking high school prep, to be easier admitted into STEM college. 

And yeah. That's not what I got from his post:

Quote

Yes. The urban public school systems are hopelessly underfunded, the teachers are overwhelmed and there is a lot failure in their programs. There isn't a lot of time for actual learning. In these areas, I believe that we should move to a more practical approach with an emphasis on STEM and and trade programs.  If I'm a poor, disenfranchised youth in the city, how on earth is learning about the Ho Chi Min Trail going to help me join society in a meaningful way? 

It sure reads to me as him saying "yeah those poor people can't handle history, lets just teach em the money makers". Unless you somehow converted "only highschool prep" from "urban public school system", and then I'd love to see you connect those dots.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,821]

Quote

some basic social studies stuff

You know what our society is really missing?  ^  Basic social studies stuff.  

[Brisketexan 105,465]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

It sure reads to me as him saying "yeah those poor people can't handle history, lets just teach em the money makers". Unless you somehow converted "only highschool prep" from "urban public school system"

It reads that way because that's how it be.

It is absolutely the functional equivalent of "don't teach black people to read, it'll just give 'em dangerous ideas.  They don't need book learnin' to pick cotton."

Our fellow citizens are more than cogs in the machine of wealth production.  Yes, we want them to be able to work and succeed and earn a living, but "being a functional member of society who knows that the chief executive of a state is called a 'governor'" and "has marketable skills" are not mutually exclusive.  Even for the poorest of people, in the worst of school districts.

[fattyflattie 4,638]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

It sure reads to me as him saying "yeah those poor people can't handle history, lets just teach em the money makers".

I’ll let him speak for himself, but I dont think “handling” it, or lack of ability to had anything to do with it. Agree on the focusing on money making part. 
 

6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Unless you somehow converted "only highschool prep" from "urban public school system", and then I'd love to see you connect those dots.

Prep as preparation, not private school. I meant high school in preparation for attempt at stem based college path. My bad 

[Serak The Preparer 3,434]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

I’ll let him speak for himself, but I dont think “handling” it, or lack of ability to had anything to do with it. Agree on the focusing on money making part. 
 

I agree with you. I pretty strongly suspect that @TreatyOak didn't start out trying to figure out how to avoid teaching POC history and denying them entrance to college. But when the outcome is the same as if he started with that goal then it means you don't just get to claim "Let’s get the disenfranchised on the right track, get things evened up, and move forward." Sometimes seemingly good ideas lead to bad outcomes. This should lead to a re-evaluation of the idea, not dismissing and ignoring observations of the bad outcomes.

[fattyflattie 4,638]

1 minute ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Sometimes seemingly good ideas lead to bad outcomes. This should lead to a re-evaluation of the idea, not dismissing and ignoring observations of the bad outcomes.

True. But what’s going to happen?  We’ll be having this same conversation 25 years from now. 
 

People read things different ways. I think a POC (treatyoak) who’s done well for himself in STEM, had an idea that maybe if we focused on that particular thing, many people could forge a new path forward and have real life success like he did.  And that’s probably most of the thought that went into it.   Then, the race academics showed up and insinuated he was racist, then the conversation went to shit. And in 20 years, we’ll still be arguing about it because it’s more likely than not to stay the same as it ever was.  Because 1 step forward isn’t the perfect step, so it’s foolish/racist whatever. 
 

Anyhow, back to your scheduled infighting. I personally dgaf if they teach CRT at even an elementary level. If the parents can’t find time to speak with their kids about it, that’s on them. 

[Captainant 27,862]

3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Then, the race academics showed up and insinuated he was racist, then the conversation went to shit.

Lol, well when you're advocating for modern jim crow laws... Yeah, you're gonna get called out for it.

Sorry you like shitty ideas?

5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Because 1 step forward isn’t the perfect step, so it’s foolish/racist whatever.

You are doing that fun MAGA thing where you realize you're defending the indefensible so you claim that you and your ideas are being treated unfairly. It's very embarrassing. 

[fattyflattie 4,638]

I’m not defending shit. I just find it funny when a “newbie” wades in here and gets called racist, while being a POC, and then the usuals jerk each other off while nothing changes.  

[Satchel 6,949]

I am so tired and pissed off by shit like this. Racists, get your children:

 

[Captainant 27,862]

5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I’m not defending shit. I just find it funny when a “newbie” wades in here and gets called racist, while being a POC, and then the usuals jerk each other off while nothing changes.  

If anyone wades in here, newbie poster (who's been on surly for 4 years lol?) or not, and starts advocating for laws that echo jim crow I'd fucking hope they get called out.

If you'd prefer otherwise, you should check out texags.com or tigerdroppings.com

[Nivek 17,000]

5 hours ago, TreatyOak said:

Thanks for your posts. Here, if you post an opinion that differs from other people, you're stupid, "simple," a racist, a communist, a snowflake, etc, etc. It's truly reflective of how we are unable to handle disagreement on a national scale.  

No worries chief.  I am guilty of being a reactionary at times as well.  

Edited April 7, 2022 by Nivek

[Pancho 45,117]

4 hours ago, TreatyOak said:

Well, what we are currently doing for a large segment of our population clearly isn't working, as we have huge numbers of people leaving high school with no skills or prospects. I propose we re-focus on the ways that we can give them a better chance or a shot at a useful* college degree, like they are doing at a highly-regarded school in South Texas. 

*We already have enough people graduating from college with bullshit degrees and no tangible skills, many mired in hopeless debt, but that is for another thread. 

"bullshit degrees" is subjective.  You have no evidence of certain degrees being attained leading to "no tangible skills."

Second, you've still ignored your 1st argument in this thread which is getting rid of the history of Black and Brown Americans and history that was "wrong" and replace those classes with something like coding.  The question that has been asked of you many times (which you still haven't addressed) is why you want to erase the history of Black and Brown students?

 

[Satchel 6,949]

8 minutes ago, Pancho said:

"bullshit degrees" is subjective.  You have no evidence of certain degrees being attained leading to "no tangible skills."

Second, you've still ignored your 1st argument in this thread which is getting rid of the history of Black and Brown Americans and history that was "wrong" and replace those classes with something like coding.  The question that has been asked of you many times (which you still haven't addressed) is why you want to erase the history of Black and Brown students?

 

Because that’s the only way bananas left at the black history teacher’s door becomes understandable.