Critical Race Theory policy in hiring at UT

[Beau Vine 54217]

1 hour ago, Satchel said:

UT and Tech have right wing think tanks. When will aggy get one with more seating capacity?

aggy is a right wing think tank.  Well, not so much on the "think" part, but whattayagonnado?

[Pancho 44768]

Telling American history like this is what radical republicans on this board and throughout this country believe is CRT:

 

[David Dennison 18856]

CRT is anything that makes white people feel the slightest bit of guilt for any racial injustice that affects African Americans.

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/white-space-black-hood-with-sheryll-cashin/id1382983397?i=1000552551591

Pretty good discussion on the podcast and I figured this is as a good a place to stick it as any. 

"Residential segregation and unequal allocation of resources continues to play a profound role in areas of concentrated poverty, and conversely, high opportunity. Georgetown law professor Sheryll Cashin has spent decades studying housing and how geography is central to American inequality. In “White Space, Black Hood: Opportunity Hoarding and Segregation in the Age of Inequality,” Cashin traces the history of anti-Black residential caste, which she says manifests in three forms: boundary maintenance, opportunity hoarding and stereotype-driven surveillance. She joins to unpack her findings and to share strategies for abolishing state-sanctioned practices that further perpetuate inequities."

 

[jimmyjazz 45912]

7 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/white-space-black-hood-with-sheryll-cashin/id1382983397?i=1000552551591

Pretty good discussion on the podcast and I figured this is as a good a place to stick it as any. 

"Residential segregation and unequal allocation of resources continues to play a profound role in areas of concentrated poverty, and conversely, high opportunity. Georgetown law professor Sheryll Cashin has spent decades studying housing and how geography is central to American inequality. In “White Space, Black Hood: Opportunity Hoarding and Segregation in the Age of Inequality,” Cashin traces the history of anti-Black residential caste, which she says manifests in three forms: boundary maintenance, opportunity hoarding and stereotype-driven surveillance. She joins to unpack her findings and to share strategies for abolishing state-sanctioned practices that further perpetuate inequities."

 

Why are you calling my children racists?

-- Karen

[NWBuck 8552]

 

[Captainant 27660]

The most recent Hardcore History is five and a half hours on the Atlantic slave trade, all the up to somewhat recent American history. Really good and full of primary sources, as always. It's an awesome primer for folks that need some help on their basic facts and assertions @Johnny Sack

[Pancho 44768]

Radical republicans would call this CRT. Same people would call it history:

 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

 

[Incredulity 11669]

When Mauise Ricard III paid a $560.43 application fee to Wells Fargo & Co. on Valentine’s Day in 2020 to refinance his mortgage on a four-bedroom brick colonial in a leafy suburb of Atlanta, he had every reason to expect an easy ride. The Microsoft Corp. engineer is married to a doctor and has a credit score north of 800, putting him in America’s credit elite. 

 

Clicked on the article as I was interested to read the source of the refusal statistics.  Couldn’t make it past the opening paragraph.  800 credit score engineer at Microsoft paid $560 for a refinance application…

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Incredulity

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Why? It says in their documentation they can charge you up to 5% of the original loan amount and they don't disclose all of their fees. So, why the skepticism?

The last time WF was accused of discriminatory practices, they settled ($184 million). Should we be surprised it has been continuing?

[Captainant 27660]

7 hours ago, Incredulity said:

When Mauise Ricard III paid a $560.43 application fee to Wells Fargo & Co. on Valentine’s Day in 2020 to refinance his mortgage on a four-bedroom brick colonial in a leafy suburb of Atlanta, he had every reason to expect an easy ride. The Microsoft Corp. engineer is married to a doctor and has a credit score north of 800, putting him in America’s credit elite. 

 

Clicked on the article as I was interested to read the source of the refusal statistics.  Couldn’t make it past the opening paragraph.  800 credit score engineer at Microsoft paid $560 for a refinance application…

 

Yes, we know that you don't believe that black folks face any inequity and that racism is a thing of the past. If you read the second paragraph, you'd see that he was denied because the home was "not in a good area". An area that was predominantly black. Predominantly black because of redlining.

Man if only you possessed the intellectual honesty to admit that you just don't give a shit, or had the curiosity to look for yourself what's happening in our society...

[Incredulity 11669]

38 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Why? It says in their documentation they can charge you up to 5% of the original loan amount and they don't disclose all of their fees. So, why the skepticism?

The last time WF was accused of discriminatory practices, they settled ($184 million). Should we be surprised it has been continuing?

People with 800 credit scores don’t pay mortgage application fees or sign loan documents for 5% of the loan amount.

That’s laughable.

 

WF is a shitty, shitty company.   Proven out many times.  Yes, black people have been and are discriminated against for mortgage loans.

[Guest Lobo]

Wells Fargo turned me down for a loan once.  Because I am Hispanic.  I know that was the reason.  But my wife is very brand loyal and we still have accounts with them.  

 

[David Dennison 18856]

11 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

 

[Neonmoon 38129]

2 hours ago, Lobo said:

Wells Fargo turned me down for a loan once.  Because I am Hispanic.  I know that was the reason.  But my wife is very brand loyal and we still have accounts with them.  

 

Friends don’t let their friends use Wells Fargo

[Guest Lobo]

I really gotta get the fuck away from that company.  Need to throw Phil and Wulaw some HELOC business later this year.  They're assholes, but they're my kinda assholes.

[Satchel 6938]

5 hours ago, Incredulity said:

[White] People with 800 credit scores don’t pay mortgage application fees or sign loan documents for 5% of the loan amount.

That’s laughable.

 

WF is a shitty, shitty company.   Proven out many times.  Yes, black people have been and are discriminated against for mortgage loans.

FIFY.

[TurkeyChew 383]

How is WF being racist CRT again?

[David Dennison 18856]

5 minutes ago, TurkeyChew said:

How is WF being racist CRT again?

It's as CRT as teaching children the history of slavery in America.

[TurkeyChew 383]

10 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It's as CRT as teaching children the history of slavery in America.

Okay so it’s not.

[elfenix 34238]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Friends don’t let their friends use Wells Fargo

wells fargo makes the friends use them without their knowledge

[Captainant 27660]

30 minutes ago, TurkeyChew said:

How is WF being racist CRT again?

1) Being racist isn't critical race theory. CRT is a framework to critically evaluate the society we live in to examine inherent biases and institutionalized racism.

2) It's a continuation of redlining and intentionally and structurally impairing the ability of black families to build wealth. In America, more wealth means more influence. 

[Serak The Preparer 3431]

37 minutes ago, TurkeyChew said:

How is WF being racist CRT again?

That's pretty amusing coming from you, considering your past arguments that people campaigning against CRT (when in fact what they are fighting against is not CRT) is ok, that CRT just means what people want it to mean.

[David Dennison 18856]

37 minutes ago, TurkeyChew said:

Okay so it’s not.

Who said it was?

[Satchel 6938]

1 hour ago, TurkeyChew said:

How is WF being racist CRT again?

What do you think CRT is?

[jimmyjazz 45912]

11 minutes ago, Satchel said:

What do you think CRT is?

He's been told a thousand times.  He's a troll.  Ignore him.

[tchookem 3900]

That's pretty amusing coming from you, considering your past arguments that people campaigning against CRT (when in fact what they are fighting against is not CRT) is ok, that CRT just means what people want it to mean.

I honestly think the vitriol stems from the word critical and people not knowing the difference between "critical thinking" and being "critical of". In their minds CRT is anything that makes them (in this case, white people) feel judged.

I don't think this ignorance is always intentional, but the pandering to it most certainly is.

[TwiceHorn 31457]

The Wells Fargo thing is why CRT exists.  It is a systematic attempt to explain how racism permeates our society.

It remains important to acknowledge these things, whether it be by "extremist" CRT, or the simpler "it exists, it holds back its victims, we need to get rid of it."  Which is the fictional CRT of which the GQP types complain.

[TurkeyChew 383]

1 hour ago, Satchel said:

What do you think CRT is?

I don’t really know what it is, I’m listening and learning constantly; as Jimmy mentioned I’ve been told the academic definition and how it doesn’t really exist in practice except rarely in grad school, and I’ve seen the definition morphed and defined by popular culture who have attempted to evolve the meaning beyond the strict academic and technical definition. 

My post was asking why or what does WF being allegedly racist and unethical (again) have to do with CRT and as it pertains to this thread. TwiceHorn just did a good job of answering why it’s germane. The post and discussion around WF is less CR and what the tone of this thread had been (I say that as a good thing), which is why I asked as well.

Edited March 13, 2022 by TurkeyChew

[aggie08 21498]

This period where Donkey pretends to be an open-minded pragmatist just looking for a discussion--before he inevitably goes off the deep end one evening and nukes another user name--is so fucking boring.

[Incredulity 11669]

4 hours ago, Satchel said:

FIFY.

[tchookem 3900]

This period where Donkey pretends to be an open-minded pragmatist just looking for a discussion--before he inevitably goes off the deep end one evening and nukes another user name--is so fucking boring.

Normally I love a comedy of awkwardness, but watching people repeatedly engage this troll is too much. It's like trying to scoop punch from the bowl without getting any of the turd in in the ladle.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Beto and I agree.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

On 3/9/2022 at 8:22 AM, Captainant said:

The most recent Hardcore History is five and a half hours on the Atlantic slave trade, all the up to somewhat recent American history. Really good and full of primary sources, as always. It's an awesome primer for folks that need some help on their basic facts and assertions @Johnny Sack

Already binged it with both of my kids, 10 and 12.  Actual history is great. Good to know the history of slavery, its evils, and how prevalent it is in world history. Actual history is great.  Not garbage like the 1619 Project that tries to argue the Revolutionary War was largely a slaveholder's rebellion.

[Satchel 6938]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Beto and I agree.

Beto should chastise any voter advocating against something they don’t understand.

[Satchel 6938]

10 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Already binged it with both of my kids, 10 and 12.  Actual history is great. Good to know the history of slavery, its evils, and how prevalent it is in world history. Actual history is great.  Not garbage like the 1619 Project that tries to argue the Revolutionary War was largely a slaveholder's rebellion.

Was it a small slaveholder’s rebellion?

[pyrohornIII 4814]

On 3/11/2022 at 6:12 PM, Pancho said:

Radical republicans would call this CRT. Same people would call it history:

 

EJI is excellent.    I encourage everyone to follow them on social media and visit their memorial and museum in Montgomery.    Get your free tickets beforehand online to avoid confusion getting in.  

Edited March 14, 2022 by pyrohornIII

[Captainant 27660]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Already binged it with both of my kids, 10 and 12.  Actual history is great. Good to know the history of slavery, its evils, and how prevalent it is in world history. Actual history is great.  Not garbage like the 1619 Project that tries to argue the Revolutionary War was largely a slaveholder's rebellion.

Definitionally, the revolutionary war was led by slaveholders. There's an inherent tension to founding fathers writing "all men are created equal" while forcing equal men to live as lessers. It's a core theme of the 1619 project, and of that episode of hardcore history.

If you're ok with them listening to that episode, it went into far more depth and truly awful gruesome detail than any classroom would lol. But you too are a man of inherent tension and contradiction, so I guess that's fair

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Already binged it with both of my kids, 10 and 12.  Actual history is great. Good to know the history of slavery, its evils, and how prevalent it is in world history. Actual history is great.  Not garbage like the 1619 Project that tries to argue the Revolutionary War was largely a slaveholder's rebellion.

Say you've never read anything within the project without saying you've never read anything within the project. Even Dan Carlin makes mention of the revolutionaries hypocrisy on the issue of slavery being a prevailing core criticism of them at the time. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Catdaddyhorn

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

I enjoy this guy's long twitter threads. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

20 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Say you've never read anything within the project without saying you've never read anything within the project. Even Dan Carlin makes mention of the revolutionaries hypocrisy on the issue of slavery being a prevailing core criticism of them at the time. 

Jesus.  That's not what I am saying.  The 1619 Project claims “one of the primary reasons the colonists decided to declare their independence from Britain was because they wanted to protect the institution of slavery.”  And that is complete bullshit.  You can read about this and other fundamental errors yourself.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/1619-project-new-york-times-wilentz/605152/

https://medium.com/@RichardDBrownCT/on-1619-and-woody-holtons-account-of-slavery-and-the-independence-movement-six-historians-respond-b43369ad52d7

[Captainant 27660]

7 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Jesus.  That's not what I am saying.  The 1619 Project claims “one of the primary reasons the colonists decided to declare their independence from Britain was because they wanted to protect the institution of slavery.”  And that is complete bullshit.  You can read about this and other fundamental errors yourself.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/1619-project-new-york-times-wilentz/605152/

https://medium.com/@RichardDBrownCT/on-1619-and-woody-holtons-account-of-slavery-and-the-independence-movement-six-historians-respond-b43369ad52d7

So what are you saying? I don't get the nit you're picking here, other than to defend your previous ass showings for lying and materially misrepresenting other writers like Kendi.

Props for the college degree version of WWS's schtick though - instead of hour long youtube vids without comment, you link huge articles without any effort.

[Satchel 6938]

Here is what I find despairing from The Atlantic article which outlines the debate over the 1619 Project. Many of us in non dominant communities are keenly aware of the mood of much of white America. One need only look at the number of laws being proposed across the country that seek to take America back to the darkest times of its racial past. As trite as it sounds, if we are constrained in the acknowledgement and factual teaching of our history, as we are experiencing in real time, are bound to repeat it.

The most radical thread in the 1619 Project is not its contention that slavery’s legacy continues to shape American institutions; it’s the authors’ pessimism that a majority of white people will abandon racism and work with black Americans toward a more perfect union. Every essay tracing racial injustice from slavery to the present day speaks to the endurance of racial caste. And it is this profound pessimism about white America that many of the 1619 Project’s critics find most galling.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/historians-clash-1619-project/604093/

[Beau Vine 54217]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

Jesus.  That's not what I am saying.  The 1619 Project claims “one of the primary reasons the colonists decided to declare their independence from Britain was because they wanted to protect the institution of slavery.”  And that is complete bullshit.  You can read about this and other fundamental errors yourself.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/1619-project-new-york-times-wilentz/605152/

Interesting.  So you trust The Atlantic as a news source?

[TwiceHorn 31457]

1 hour ago, Satchel said:

Here is what I find despairing from The Atlantic article which outlines the debate over the 1619 Project. Many of us in non dominant communities are keenly aware of the mood of much of white America. One need only look at the number of laws being proposed across the country that seek to take America back to the darkest times of its racial past. As trite as it sounds, if we are constrained in the acknowledgement and factual teaching of our history, as we are experiencing in real time, are bound to repeat it.

The most radical thread in the 1619 Project is not its contention that slavery’s legacy continues to shape American institutions; it’s the authors’ pessimism that a majority of white people will abandon racism and work with black Americans toward a more perfect union. Every essay tracing racial injustice from slavery to the present day speaks to the endurance of racial caste. And it is this profound pessimism about white America that many of the 1619 Project’s critics find most galling.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/historians-clash-1619-project/604093/

That is also a criticism of real CRT.  It's dark shit, despairing; as you say.

I don't mean to minimize the nationalist movements and what they mean for minorities. but I think the popular majority most places (as opposed to the electoral or voting) is of good will on these issues, and, as someone notes, good ol miscegnation is going to moot a great deal of this, so, longer term I think humanity is "ok."  The short term may be rough.

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Jesus.  That's not what I am saying.  The 1619 Project claims “one of the primary reasons the colonists decided to declare their independence from Britain was because they wanted to protect the institution of slavery.”  And that is complete bullshit.  You can read about this and other fundamental errors yourself.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/1619-project-new-york-times-wilentz/605152/

https://medium.com/@RichardDBrownCT/on-1619-and-woody-holtons-account-of-slavery-and-the-independence-movement-six-historians-respond-b43369ad52d7

The original 1619 project was composed of 10+ essays along with a bunch of poems and other historical references. How did one line in an opening essay that was mostly about how Hannah-Jones' father's continuous and earnest displays of patriotism confused her growing up become viewed as the over arching thrust and object of ire for the entire project? The truth is that the people who hang on to that line as the raison d'etre for the entire piece of work and therefore reason to dismiss the other 90s pages of work are really just betraying their motives here. Imagine basing your entire criticism of a book off of the fact you didn't like the foreward. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Catdaddyhorn

[jimmyjazz 45912]

36 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

The original 1619 project was composed of 10+ essays along with a bunch of poems and other historical references. How did one line in an opening essay that was mostly about how Hannah-Jones' father's continuous and earnest displays of patriotism confused her growing up become viewed as the over arching thrust and object of ire for the entire project? The truth is that the people who hang on to that line as the raison d'etre for the entire piece of work and therefore reason to dismiss the other 90s pages of work are really just betraying their motives here. Imagine basing your entire criticism of a book off of the fact you didn't like the foreward. 

You didn't expect him to read the whole thing, did you?